Is The Ec Independant?

[Pierrot]

From the BP today :

Puea Thai hands EC donation info

Puea Thai accused Democrat party of receiving an illegal donation. Puea Thai party handed over evidence relating to the controversial 258-million-baht Democrat party donation to the Election Commission (EC) on Friday.

Mr Prompong said he was confident the evidence submitted would lead to dissolution of the ruling Democrat party if the Election Commission uses the same standards when it used when dissolving the Thai Rak Thai, People Power party, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties.

In the past some have voiced serious doubts about the independance of the EC, here we have a great occasion to prove them wrong

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...c-donation-info

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think it was pretty obvious all along that the EC (and constitutional court for that matter) are corrupt? (Well, depending on one's definition on 'corrupt' perhaps 'not independent' or 'managed' would be better)

[chevykanteve]

From the BP today :

Puea Thai hands EC donation info

Puea Thai accused Democrat party of receiving an illegal donation. Puea Thai party handed over evidence relating to the controversial 258-million-baht Democrat party donation to the Election Commission (EC) on Friday.

Mr Prompong said he was confident the evidence submitted would lead to dissolution of the ruling Democrat party if the Election Commission uses the same standards when it used when dissolving the Thai Rak Thai, People Power party, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties.

In the past some have voiced serious doubts about the independance of the EC, here we have a great occasion to prove them wrong

The Democrat Party will not be dissolved, regardless of any preponderance of (legal) evidence against them. Their friends --the Establishment if you will-- can not condone that..... at least for the time being.

[Old Man River]

Given that Thaksin previously bragged that the EC was in his back pocket and subsequently, several members of the EC were thrown in jail, it shows that they can be as as corrupt as any other group.

I will never forget when a friend sent the EC new year's baskets of dried noodles. At the time, it was fitting.

[chevykanteve]

Given that Thaksin previously bragged that the EC was in his back pocket and subsequently, several members of the EC were thrown in jail, it shows that they can be as as corrupt as any other group.

I will never forget when a friend sent the EC new year's baskets of dried noodles. At the time, it was fitting.

I'm sorry, but I don't entirely understand what you mean? Maybe I'm just a little slow, but... Can you re-word all that, please? Thanks in advance.

[KhaoNiaw]

From the BP today :

Puea Thai hands EC donation info

Puea Thai accused Democrat party of receiving an illegal donation. Puea Thai party handed over evidence relating to the controversial 258-million-baht Democrat party donation to the Election Commission (EC) on Friday.

Mr Prompong said he was confident the evidence submitted would lead to dissolution of the ruling Democrat party if the Election Commission uses the same standards when it used when dissolving the Thai Rak Thai, People Power party, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties.

In the past some have voiced serious doubts about the independance of the EC, here we have a great occasion to prove them wrong

I would doubt that the EC is above the influences, but making a ruling based on evidence collected by the Puea Thai party is hardly a test of independence. A Puea Thai executive says that if the same standards are applied then the Democrats should be dissolved, and you take that at face value?

Edited March 27, 2009 by KhaoNiaw

[Slip]

^^ Of course he doesn't! This is Pierot we're talking about. He has posted one of his typically skewed pieces masquerading as a serious question. He is also acutely aware of the weakness of his own arguments but uses rhetoric in an attempt to baffle readers- it's called Propaganda.

You've been around a while KhaoNiaw, surely you've got this character sussed already?

[BigSnake]

For the most part the EC follow the rules of Law, not to say that isn't outside force trying to swing things their way, which is almost a way of life in the land of smiles.

[h90]

recalling the doings of the EC in the past.....the are just lazy....

how many cases against PPP did they drop? 700-800??

[Pierrot]

^^ Of course he doesn't! This is Pierot we're talking about. He has posted one of his typically skewed pieces masquerading as a serious question. He is also acutely aware of the weakness of his own arguments but uses rhetoric in an attempt to baffle readers- it's called Propaganda.

You've been around a while KhaoNiaw, surely you've got this character sussed already?

Propaganda ? I'm offering facts, no rhetoric. Did the democrats really received the "donation" the opposition claims they received ? Was it illegal ? If, using the same standards that lead to the dissolution of the TRT, PPP ..., does it mean that the Democrat party should be dissolved as well ? Will the EC committee handle this case in a fair and non partisan manner ?

Who is actually aware of the weakness of his own argument and using rhetoric to baffles readers ? It's obviously clear. It's also obviously clear that you failed, so now please answer the questions . Or plead the fifth, people will understand ...

[Slip]

No you have quoted a news piece about Puea Thai making an allegation against the democrats, and then implied that the EC will be proven to be unbiased if they find against the democrats, or not independent if they don't. There is your propaganda.

The series of questions you raised in your second post are fair enough, but they were not included in your first. Are you asking me to answer those questions? Obviously, I do not know the answers to some of them anymore than you.

Just for the record, and to answer the questions you pose that I can answer; my own opinion is that any politicians/ parties who are proven to have broken the law should suffer the consequences regardless of who they are, and I believe the EC should handle the case in an unbiased manner. Not that it much matters what any of us think.

My objection to your original post was the way you spun it; by ignoring the fact that as these are allegations made by the opposing party; we should at least be questioning of their credibility before rushing to judge the EC on the way they react to them. The allegations may not be true/illegal/the same as TTT/PPP's transgressions/deserving of dissolution; where does your 'great occasion to prove them wrong (the doubters)' sit then?

[EDIT: Punctuation]

Edited March 29, 2009 by Slip

[slimdog]

Did the democrats really received the "donation" the opposition claims they received ?

According to the man who gave the donation, Yes (12.2.2009) and No (14.2.2009)

Yes source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/02/12...cs_30095551.php

No source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/02/14...cs_30095698.php

Was it illegal ?

According to the Election commission, they have no record of either TPI or Prachai Leophairatana having given a donation. In which case if a donation was given it would be in breech of the Organic Laws on Political Parties (1998) Articles 45,46,48,49,50 & 51 and the possible penalties for these, are a combination of fines and prison sentences ranging from 6 months to 3 years

If, using the same standards that lead to the dissolution of the TRT, PPP ..., does it mean that the Democrat party should be dissolved as well ?

For the donations, No. What the Democrat Party are also accused of is receiving money from the Election Commission and not using it in the way that they stated they had used it, which would be in violation of the Political Party Act (1998) Section 62, which is punishable by the Party being dissolved.

Will the EC committee handle this case in a fair and non partisan manner ?

That is the question; irrespective of whether or not the Election Commission is really partisan or not, there is a perception that they are less harsh when the accused is a Democrat member than other parties, meaning out of the major 5 political parties which contested the last General Election, 3 have been dissolved, 1 is probably in the process of being dissolved, and the last one, The Democrats were cleared of all violations.

There is the additional problem with this case, in that Chalerm used 3 hours of the censure debate to clearly spell out all the transactions showing exactly where money came from, and where it went, or in some cases where it didn't go. Whilst all the information would need to be verified, there is the perception that there is a case to answer, meaning that regardless of ones political affiliations, Chalerm did a very good job at explaining the money trail, and as the censure debate was watched live by millions of people, this will put a considerable amount of additional pressure on the Election Commission.

The final piece of the puzzle is the make up of the Election Commission, when there has been a split vote, the ruling has always gone in a certain way 3-2, as one of the Election Commissioners has to be replaced due to retirement, the choice of his replacement could be crucial, as he or she will really be the swing vote in deciding how a decission comes out.

[Pierrot]

It's not over yet. I guess the "reds" learned a lot from their opponents, they are now fighting on all fronts.

The Pheu Thai Party yesterday filed a petition with the Senate asking for the impeachment of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Deputy Premier Suthep Thaugsuban for malfeasance.

In their petition handed to Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej, the opposition party said the prime minister had violated the law by failing to serve the ex-officio post of Police Commission chairman, assigning the duty instead to Suthep.

The petition, supported by 120 Pheu Thai MPs, also accused Suthep of chairing the Police Commission's recent meetings without authority. One such meeting on February 6 approved the transfer of 73 high-ranking police officers all over the country. Suthep was accused also of interfering with the Culture Ministry's internal affairs, an act in violation of the Constitution.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/04...cs_30099638.php