Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[SurfRider]

"there was a video text notice on the AEON ATM telling their customers (people with AEON VISA and MasterCard credit cards, which is their main business) that many Thai banks have begun charging 150 baht ATM fees. But the notice told them not to worry, because they can do cash advances at the AEON ATMs without having to worry about the fee"

The above message sounds GREAT, but a friend found this cryptic message posted on the AEON website.

Does anyone have a guess as to what they're trying to communicate?

Should all of us who haven't already fallen love with the new 150 Baht usury fee, rush out and seek an AEON issued Card???

Subject: Additional Fee for Cash Advance Transaction at ATM Update : 27/04/2009

Dear AEON Credit Card Members

Recently, there are some banks have charged the additional fee 150 baht per transaction on the international credit card with Visa, MasterCard and JCB logo including AEON credit card for cash advance transaction at their ATMs. Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction.

AEON cards can do cash advance transaction at AEON's cash dispenser machine with no additional fee 150 baht per transaction.

http://www.aeonthailand.com/lang/en/menu/N...News/24/odrNO/1

[jfchandler]

Thanks JGM... Just following up on another poster's tip in this very thread.... I never would have thought of AEON myself...

PS - Seems debit cards from Schwab Visa, Etrade Visa and Capital One MM Visa are all returning pretty much the full exchange rate. Your 34.38 today was identical to mine with Schwab.

So these 3 debit cards are good options for ex-pats here in terms of exchange rate returns....

[jfchandler]

ST, that's the exact same message (photo thereof) that I included today with my post, after seeing it on their ATM video display.

I don't see anything problematic or threatening about that. I read it as a message to AEON card holders saying don't worry, you won't get charged 150 baht if you use your card at an AEON ATM.

I don't believe AEON is part of the Thai ATM Pool group. So I'm assuming someone using an AEON Visa or MasterCard in Thai bank ATMs might well be hit with the 150 baht fee.

The way I read the message to AEON customers was... watch out for fees when using other banks' ATMs, but don't worry, you can use the AEON ATM with no fee.

"there was a video text notice on the AEON ATM telling their customers (people with AEON VISA and MasterCard credit cards, which is their main business) that many Thai banks have begun charging 150 baht ATM fees. But the notice told them not to worry, because they can do cash advances at the AEON ATMs without having to worry about the fee"

The above message sounds GREAT, but a friend found this cryptic message posted on the AEON website.

Does anyone have a guess as to what they're trying to communicate?

Should all of us who haven't already fallen love with the new 150 Baht usury fee, rush out and seek an AEON issued Card???

Subject: Additional Fee for Cash Advance Transaction at ATM Update : 27/04/2009

Dear AEON Credit Card Members

Recently, there are some banks have charged the additional fee 150 baht per transaction on the international credit card with Visa, MasterCard and JCB logo including AEON credit card for cash advance transaction at their ATMs. Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction.

AEON cards can do cash advance transaction at AEON's cash dispenser machine with no additional fee 150 baht per transaction.

http://www.aeonthailand.com/lang/en/menu/N...News/24/odrNO/1

[SurfRider]

"I don't see anything problematic or threatening about that. I read it as a message to AEON card holders saying don't worry, you won't get charged 150 baht if you use your card at an AEON ATM"

I hope you're right -- Based on extensive experience and being naturally suspicious and skeptical about almost anything I hear or see in print in Siam, I would naturally assume the worst.

This phrase "Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction" concerns me.

It seems that it might be saying -- you can count on your AEON issued card to be fee-free, but carefully consider the message we'll offer on the others.

At any rate, time will tell, as it always does.

It was nice to finally learn that AEON offers the best US$ rate on the best US cards. ( a pity for the Brits )

.

[jfchandler]

ST, I'd assume "the Brits" would gain as much advantage in using AEON ATMs as anyone else, in terms of avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee fever.

The AEON ATMs accept most of the major international card networks. And AEON itself doesn't charge any ATM fees for users of cards other than their own.

So, I would expect, since ATM/debit card cash withdrawal rates are largely influenced by what fees or %s people's home banks deduct from the proceeds, that people's net exchange rates with AEON will be the same for any particular card as if that person uses that same card in a regular Thai bank ATM that doesn't charge the 150 baht fee.

As we've shown numerous times above, apart from the 150 baht fee which is a new thing, a person's net exchange rate achieved on a withdrawal is mostly based on the policies of the bank that issued the card they're using to make the withdrawal. Some home banks deduct a big cut. Some home banks take very little, such as Schwab, E*Trade and Capital One.

So... to echo Capital One.... "What card is in your wallet???"

[SurfRider]

"I'd assume "the Brits" would gain as much advantage in using AEON ATMs as anyone else, in terms of avoiding the 150 baht ATM fee fever"

True, I wasn't referring to the 150 Baht usury fee-- I'm still assuming that will remain avoidable ( albeit somewhat inconvenient with respect to being able to walk up to almost any old ATM, as in the past, and expect a fair deal. )

I was referring to the various reports that the Brits don't seem to be able to get the exchange rate deal that the favored US cards receive, compared to the X-Rates reference rate. Based on past reports, that lower rate appears to hold true at AEON also. ( yes, I realize, there's still the debatable issue of the three different culprits who can affect the rate that you finally receive )

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Banks-S...99#entry2763799

"What card is in your wallet???"

You mean you actually carry a wallet in Asia??? -- NOT ME!

.

[JimGant]

I was referring to the various reports that the Brits don't seem to be able to get the exchange rate deal that the favored US cards receive, compared to the X-Rates reference rate. Based on past reports, that lower rate appears to hold true at AEON also

So, the Brits are getting a lower rate at all the ATM machines, to now include AEON. Must be a conspiracy of the ATMs: "Limey approaching. Reset from the Yank position." Or maybe it's the card.........

I bet the Nationwide Cash Card gets several satang better than the TT rate, same as the best US cards, although riding the Cirrus network might make a slight difference (all the best US cards reported here are Visa) Where the best US cards average 5-20 satang above TT, I would expect the best Brit cards to average 10-25, based on relative exchange rates.

Trying to lasso the real IER is impossible, as there is no official IER site -- and besides, it's constantly moving. The Bank of Thailand site, IMO, gives the best approximation with its "Weighted Interbank Exchange Rate" (whatever 'weighted' means here). But like X Rate, it is a once-in-24-hour's snapshot. At least with the BOT site, you can see at a single glance the satang difference between TT and IER (at least for $USD).

Recently, there are some banks have charged the additional fee 150 baht per transaction on the international credit card with Visa, MasterCard and JCB logo including AEON credit card for cash advance transaction at their ATMs. Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction.

What I find strange about this quotation from AEON is, there is no mention of ATM/Debit cards. They're strictly talking about cash advances with credit cards. Probably just an oversight......

[Steps]

Question, has anyone else managed to open a C/C account with Nationwide while still retaining their Flexi account. If so can you say what branch did it.

When i opened my cashcard account 4 years ago, i already had a flexaccount with a visa debit card. No problems and nothing was said at the branch at the time.

Found this on the website:-

Cash Card Account

The Nationwide Cash Card Account is our basic current account. This is most appropriate for customers receiving state benefits or pension. To be eligible for a Nationwide Cash Card Account you must:

• be aged 18 or over
  
• not have an existing current account with Nationwide Building Society
  Qote Number 2 ( This is exactly why I contacted N/W Head office twice and went into the branch.) - Still no reply from them yet but will keep you posted.
  

(I noticed you said you have 4 accounts. Are they all under the same name? because i have 2 under the same name which i thought was the limit. I just ask because i was told you can't have a 2 flex acc and a C/C acc.)

I was also told you can only have two accounts but I have :

A/ Single account in my name

B/ Joint accounts with , Brother, father and girl friend ( 3 )

I Can use all accounts on line and I am the only person who can access any of the accounts as I kept all the codes. ( Being Scottish and careful )

Hope this helps.

BT

Spot on. Cheers mate

[Steve2UK]

When I posted previously about using the AEON ATM, I had only used my (UK) Nationwide Visa Debit card. On Tuesday, I returned to the same AEON machine in Chiang Mai (Tesco Lotus Khamtien) and used both the N/W Debit Visa card and the N/W Cirrus cashcard. As jfchandler's post (#1048) shows, the machine stickers don't include Cirrus - but do include Maestro. I believe they're effectively the same operation - with Cirrus being the more common logo in the UK (maybe also rest of Europe?). That being the case, this post is mainly for the benefit of UK card-holders - to say that your Cirrus cards will also work in AEON ATM's - and no 150 baht fee.

Drawing 15,000 baht at 3.12pm (N/W Cirrus cashcard) and then immediately afterwards another 15,000 baht (N/W Visa Debit card) produced the following GBP exchange rate when I checked my accounts online:

Cirrus cashcard 54.42

Visa debit card 54.39

I didn't see the on-screen advice to AEON card-holders (mentioned and shown in jfchandler's post), but it's actually of no interest to me (or, I suggest, you) as it is clearly directed at AEON card-holders using their AEON cards in other Thai banks' ATMs - as I pointed out when I quoted it previously from their website. Interesting to think that Thai also get treated as "foreigners" because they have an AEON card . Incidentally, it's my impression from Thai friends that AEON is generally aimed at and favoured by "ordinary" folk (because of the credit/hire purchase angle). I suspect hi-so Thai wouldn't be seen dead with an AEON card......... "Oh, the horror" .

One final point about the AEON ATM's: based on the one I have used (and unlike other banks' ATMs I've known), they actually display the decimal point (and satang zeros) for the sum you enter - i.e. "15,000.00" and not just "15,000". Without entering those extra zeros, I'd have just got 150 baht.

Other than that, it's exactly the same operation as any other Thai Bank's ATM - just forget the fact that AEON's main business is hire purchase/credit finance......... who cares?

Edited May 27, 2009 by Steve2UK

[Steve2UK]

Recently, there are some banks have charged the additional fee 150 baht per transaction on the international credit card with Visa, MasterCard and JCB logo including AEON credit card for cash advance transaction at their ATMs. Please carefully consider the message on ATM screen before proceeding next transaction.

What I find strange about this quotation from AEON is, there is no mention of ATM/Debit cards. They're strictly talking about cash advances with credit cards. Probably just an oversight......

Looking briefly at the cards section of the AEON website, it seems that all their cards involve credit availability - i.e. when you sign up for one, there's x amount of credit available to you for purchases or cash advance........ so the main function seems (at least intended) to be different from what we think of as a Debit/ATM "cashcard".

http://www.aeon.co.th/menu/AEON_Credit_Cards

[samui04]

"What card is in your wallet???"

Well, in Italy all cash card are no network (no use abroad) or Cirrus/Maestro (same network, Mastercard).

And i always got an exchange a bit lower than cash exchange

tryed a couple of banks.....

[SurfRider]

"So, the Brits are getting a lower rate at all the ATM machines, to now include AEON. Must be a conspiracy of the ATMs: "Limey approaching. Reset from the Yank position." Or maybe it's the card...I bet the Nationwide Cash Card gets several satang better than the TT rate"

I certainly wasn't suggesting any conspiracy, nor was anything I said intended to have any racial or ethnic overtones. ( some of my best friends in LOS are Brits and we refer to each other by any number of unmentionable slurs )

I was simply attempting to point out that, based on the only hard data that I've see posted here so far, a 100,000 Baht transfer per month appears that it "could" result in about 700 Baht hit on the best UK card compared to a favored US card.

True, it's pure conjecture at this point, but the best data I've seen.

Probably not worth waking up Paul Revere (..."If the British march By land or sea from the town tonight, Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch of the North Church tower as a signal light. One if by land, and two if by sea; and I on the opposite shore will be, Ready to ride and spread the alarm through every Middlesex village and farm, for the country folk to be up and to arm", etc. )

.

[JimGant]

Drawing 15,000 baht at 3.12pm (N/W Cirrus cashcard) and then immediately afterwards another 15,000 baht (N/W Visa Debit card) produced the following GBP exchange rate when I checked my accounts online:

Cirrus cashcard 54.42

Visa debit card 54.39

You got truly good rates, indicating the N/W cards are as advertised -- fee-free (until June 1st, anyway, when the Visa card will begin to charge .84%)

How'd I figure? First, forget trying to find the IER rate that approximates the wholesale rates used by the Visa and MC networks -- you can't. The X-rates' site, as they explain, picks, once a day, a rate from either the IMF, the European Central Bank, the Bank of Canada, or the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. For 26 May, their dart came up with: 54.7512. However, 26 May was hugely volatile for the GBP, as shown here, from TT numbers from the SCB website (nice, because they use time slices) And a once-a-day rate, during large swings, won't hack it:

08:10 54.28

12:35 54.37

14:11 54.22

14:41 54.30

15.34 54.18

So, you swiped your ATM cards at 15:12/15:14 -- pretty close to the 15:34 time slice, thus a TT rate of about 54:18

[This is the closest rate I can find, but I don't know if the actual rate was still going down, as the trend indicates -- and as does the Visa/MC spread of 3 satang. However, overnight the pound soared to 54.64.... Thus, it's really hard to nail it down on such volatile days. Often, a single TT rate will do -- the BOT rate for 26 May was 54.28. Normally, that would suffice. However, as shown, not on 26 May. Best, then, to use the time slices at the SCB site when forex is going nuts]

Anyway, using 54.18 -- you got a 24 and a 21 satang increase over the TT rate. So, based on previous discussion on why using 'satang-over-TT' is a better definer of 'how you're doing' -- in contrast to trying to chase down the best IER -- you done good.

[JimGant]

I was simply attempting to point out that, based on the only hard data that I've see posted here so far, a 100,000 Baht transfer per month appears that it "could" result in about 700 Baht hit on the best UK card compared to a favored US card.

The above analysis might explain things.

I've never yet met a Limey who took offense at that term -- but, then, we were all in uniform -- and drunk (after-hours, of course). 'Yank'and 'Limey' seemed highly appropriate terms of endearment (I just wish they could learn to speak English, particularly after several boilermakers )

Ah, nice to hear Longfellow verse amongst all these numbers........

[ILOOKFORWORK]

According to the Thanchart website, The Thai Bankers Association has decided that cardholders of foreign banks will be charged 150 Baht for each withdrawal by debit or credit card, effective April 17th.

Not good news.

I guess they have to make money any way they can in these "dire" times. It's funny how blood-sucking these elite criminals can really be in times when most people are already in financial trouble. They have the audacity to start charging an extra 5 bucks (USD). Wow, isn't it ironic that the misnamed Prachatipad Thai Party happens to be in charge of the country during this "minor" change dealing with foreign ATM transactions? But hey, they're making money the old fashioned way...they steal it.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

Does a person get charged 150 baht if they go into a bank and make a withdrawal from their foreign bank via the foreign ATM/Debit/Credit card? In this case, an ATM is not used. It would be interesting to know if the 150 baht charge applies in the aforementioned case. Does anyone know?

[Chaimai]

Does a person get charged 150 baht if they go into a bank and make a withdrawal from their foreign bank via the foreign ATM/Debit/Credit card? In this case, an ATM is not used. It would be interesting to know if the 150 baht charge applies in the aforementioned case. Does anyone know?

I received NO CHARGE on a 20,000 Baht (K Bank limit) over the counter withdrawal on a Nationwide VISA debit card.

[macb]

This of course in addition to a similar charge imposed by the foreign banks, my UK bank, for instance, charges £1.50 plus a 2.75% conversion fee.

A pretty rum do and the sign of things to come I fear.

Well you can claw some of this new charge back by switching to Nationwide who charge £0.00 (on the UK side) per withdrawal and still give excellent exchange rates.

Nationwide good and no ATM fees. But taking money from the Thai ATM from your fee free bank makes no difference you still got to pay the 150 baht

[jfchandler]

What I find strange about this quotation from AEON is, there is no mention of ATM/Debit cards. They're strictly talking about cash advances with credit cards. Probably just an oversight......

Jim, I'm not greatly familiar with AEON. But from what I've seen, their business is CREDIT CARDS and getting people to pay interest on their balances. I believe I saw on their web site somewhere an annual APR of something like 20%.... OUCH!!!!

I don't recall seeing any reference to AEON offering to their customers DEBIT cards, which of course, the company doesn't get any financing interest revenue from. That could be why their message to their customers was talking about credit cards...

[jfchandler]

I received NO CHARGE on a 20,000 Baht (K Bank limit) over the counter withdrawal on a Nationwide VISA debit card.

Chaimai, if you're willing, please post the details on the date and net exchange rate received on your withdrawal... We're trying to get some idea of how the rates for the over-the-counter withdrawals compare with the fee-free (no 150 baht) Thai ATM withdrawals from such places as Government Savings Bank or AEON.

So you're saying K-Bank charged you absolutely 0 for an over-the-counter debit card withdrawal???

[jfchandler]

But taking money from the Thai ATM from your fee free bank makes no difference you still got to pay the 150 baht

MacB, would you be willing to further translate that idea into English???

No one has to pay the 150 baht ATM fee, as long as they choose from the right group of Thai ATMs (those not charging the fee) such as Government Savings Bank, United Overseas Bank, AEON, and maybe even still Ayudhya....

But if you use an ATM belonging to Bangkok Bank, SCB, Kasikorn, Siam City, CIMB, Thanachart and many of the others, then yes, you will get nicked for 150 baht per withdrawal with a foreign card.

Your choice, your money....

[hansnl]

Big deal. Banks are busineses, not public services.

Wrong!!!

Banks are legalised criminal institutions!

Might I add, the reason why we have a financial downturn.

Might I add moneygrabbing, stealing bastards!

[CMMCB]

Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not

This doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??

Yes, I know what you mean. All I can do is report what they told me and what happened when I used the ATM!

[Chaimai]

I received NO CHARGE on a 20,000 Baht (K Bank limit) over the counter withdrawal on a Nationwide VISA debit card.

Chaimai, if you're willing, please post the details on the date and net exchange rate received on your withdrawal... We're trying to get some idea of how the rates for the over-the-counter withdrawals compare with the fee-free (no 150 baht) Thai ATM withdrawals from such places as Government Savings Bank or AEON.

So you're saying K-Bank charged you absolutely 0 for an over-the-counter debit card withdrawal???

Confirm. No charge. I did post at the time (I think19th May) and thought that K bank staff had just not cottoned-on to linking the ATM charge to an over the counter transaction. Interestingly, they use an old style 'swipe' machine where they imprint your debit card onto the withdrawal slip. By the time this got back to the UK (debited on 23rd May) I got a rate of 54.390. I am pretty sure that the 'blocked' rate was nearer to 52.5.

My rate profile was as follows:-

16 May ATM K Bank 52.413

19 May counter KBank 54.39 (see above)

19 May GSB ATM 52.598

20 May Ayuttyah BKK 53.029

[barryofthailand]

Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not

This doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??

Yes, I know what you mean. All I can do is report what they told me and what happened when I used the ATM!

I think what the Branch Manager meant was that Visa, and MasterCard credit cards, would not pay the fee. An ATM card or Debit card with a Visa or MasterCard logo is not a credit card.

Barry

[barryofthailand]

But taking money from the Thai ATM from your fee free bank makes no difference you still got to pay the 150 baht

MacB, would you be willing to further translate that idea into English???

No one has to pay the 150 baht ATM fee, as long as they choose from the right group of Thai ATMs (those not charging the fee) such as Government Savings Bank, United Overseas Bank, AEON, and maybe even still Ayudhya....

But if you use an ATM belonging to Bangkok Bank, SCB, Kasikorn, Siam City, CIMB, Thanachart and many of the others, then yes, you will get nicked for 150 baht per withdrawal with a foreign card.

Your choice, your money....

I've been in Thailand a long time, and even now, I do not pay anything to access my money in the States.

Barry

[thecatman]

Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not

This doesn't make sense to me.

Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??

Yes, I know what you mean. All I can do is report what they told me and what happened when I used the ATM!

I think what the Branch Manager meant was that Visa, and MasterCard credit cards, would not pay the fee. An ATM card or Debit card with a Visa or MasterCard logo is not a credit card.

Barry

Maybe......but he'd still be wrong. (the bank manager that is, not CMMCB)

Edited May 28, 2009 by thecatman

[SurfRider]

"Talked to the staff & manager in the branch and after a little uncertainty they said that foreign "ATM cards" would pay the 150 baht fee but Visa/Mcard/Cirrus cards would not" --- "This doesn't make sense to me. Aren't pretty much all 'Foreign' ATM cards either Visa/Mcard/or Cirrus??"

I suspect you're simply dealing with a basic TiT scenario.

You could walk into a shoe store and ask if they know of any place in the area that sells shoes. It's likely that all you'll get is that blank "Deer in the headlights" stare.

They don't have much of a clue what you're asking about or how to answer, but they want to be polite and tell you something.

[ TiT ] . . .

.

[Lucifer]

This thread, seriously needs some light entertainment...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x99ein_ma...baby-baby_music

Please continue, after that.

[namoo]

The Back of my Citibank ATM card is marked as PLUS, NYCE and STAR. Does anyone know if this can be used at a GSB ATM?