I really don't like this person. Link: Elephant Killer.

Surely this is a sick joke!

No, it looks as if it's for real. It's a sick world we live in...

No, I don't like that person either.

i dont like her either, what a thought

further story about her here

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New...ed_It_For_A_Bet

turns out she killed the Elephant for a bet

Bet or not (sorry, didn't read the link, don't want any more info on this vile creature thankyou)

Anyone who kills anything for fun (can't call it a sport, as it isn't) should be washed, put in clean clothes, given a bottle of water and then dropped in the middle of the Sahara...... ideally with a mobile phone that has large video capacity so that they can record every moment up to the point that they die.

Killing innocent creatures is wrong ..... I thought we had grown out of that.

Mini-Rant over.

P.S. forgot, I hope she burns in hel_l.

Taddy, rant fully appreciated and appropriate. Read the link though, it's very interesting and will make you aware (as if you needed your awareness tweaked) of how fcuked up a world we actually live in!

These sort of stories make me sick.

I am against hunting and animal cruelty 100%, however allow me to play devils advocate here for a bit.

It is argued that such people actually aid in animal conservation, by way that they have to pay large sums of money to shoot such an animal legally, and this money is then used to maintain the parks giving the animals a 'relatively' safe place to live and allowing there numbers to flourish.

It doesn't quite excuse an individual who'd take fun in such a thing though does it. And for her to allow the elephant to die slowly over night is inexcusable, she could have at least killed the poor jumbo quickly and humanely.

I am against hunting and animal cruelty 100%, however allow me to play devils advocate here for a bit.

It is argued that such people actually aid in animal conservation, by way that they have to pay large sums of money to shoot such an animal legally, and this money is then used to maintain the parks giving the animals a 'relatively' safe place to live and allowing there numbers to flourish.

It doesn't quite excuse an individual who'd take fun in such a thing though does it. And for her to allow the elephant to die slowly over night is inexcusable, she could have at least killed the poor jumbo quickly and humanely.

Ok... let's play with this reasoning for a while.... and I would contest it with this.

For every one hunter with a gun or other killing machine, there are likely to be more hunters armed with nothing more dangerous than a camera, they may not pay the same sum of money for one shot, but I would hazard a guess that the total revenue would be higher........ and the animals all get to live in total safety, excluding the natural ecosystem of course.

I still haven't read the article in question and to be quite honest from the last line of the quoted post I am unlikely to (sorry Tigs) .... if that oh so brave woman did that, I'd be tempted to put a bullet through her head myself.

Pity the rest of the herd didn't trample her... But remember, elephants never forget...

Sorry, I can't get too upset with her.  I peresonally do not hunt, nor do I even kill cockroaches in my condo.  (I catch them and put them outside).

However, the countries which have cut down on poaching and have managed to increase their herds have been so successful that people are killed and crops ruined by the herds which have overgrown their area.  The elephants are culled by government hunters.  All of this conservation costs money, so if a hunter can pay the bucks required for the hunt and do culling that way, then the governments can use the money for further conservation measures.

Hunting is a culture and way of life.  It is not my way of life, but as long as I eat meat, then I have no moral superiority over a hunter.

Hunting is a culture and way of life. It is not my way of life, but as long as I eat meat, then I have no moral superiority over a hunter.

I agree.

Hunting is a culture and way of life. It is not my way of life, but as long as I eat meat, then I have no moral superiority over a hunter.

I agree.

And I don't.

I am about as carnivorous as you can get, I subscribed to the Atkins Diet before it had a name, I have no problem with animals being killed so that I have something tasty to eat.

I do have a problem with people that try to justify hunting for any other reason than survival .... i.e it's trying to kill you so you kill it first (the least probable scenario) or, it's invading our space and a cull is required.

The second reason is the one that is usually banded about, but I'm sorry guys, the only animal that outgrows it's space is us.

I do feel a moral superiority over hunters because every single morsel of meat I consume is there for one reason and one reason alone, to keep me alive, nothing else, anyone who kills any living creature for any other reason is a (expletive not typed)

Hunting is a culture and way of life. It is not my way of life, but as long as I eat meat, then I have no moral superiority over a hunter.

I do eat meat. I do not hunt, but I agree with you.

Sure you don't just fancy Teressa, General?

Even the name... Groenewald-Hagerman conjures up a vision of fishnet stockings eh?

Now if only she was holding a riding crop.

I feel you, but switch her body with Vanessa May's and throw on some leathers and I am hers.

every single morsel of meat I consume is there for one reason and one reason alone, to keep me alive, nothing else

Yeah but you could eat something non-meat instead - it's possible to have a perfectly balanced diet and be a vegetarian. But you choose to eat meat, when you don't have to, presumably because it tastes good. As do I...

I feel you, but switch her body with Vanessa May's and throw on some leathers and I am hers.

Pretty much any part of the talented Vanessa gets my blood a-pumping!

I do have a problem with people that try to justify hunting for any other reason than survival .... i.e it's trying to kill you so you kill it first (the least probable scenario) or, it's invading our space and a cull is required.

The second reason is the one that is usually banded about, but I'm sorry guys, the only animal that outgrows it's space is us.

I have to ask you, do you kill mosquitos who get into your room or land on your arm?  Cockroaches in your home?  Mice?  If a cobra slithers into your kid's room, are you going to stand by because you are actually in its space?  If you had a crop, would you let the birds consume it all?

If you wouldn't take action on any of these, then your arguement holds water.  If you would swat a mosquito or trap a mouse, then you are not different from those who cull an elephant.  Elephants kill people and ruin crops, but it is pretty easy for us to sit at our computers and say no one should kill one because the people are in their space, not the reverse.

I have to ask you, do you kill mosquitos who get into your room or land on your arm?  Cockroaches in your home?  Mice?  If a cobra slithers into your kid's room, are you going to stand by because you are actually in its space?  If you had a crop, would you let the birds consume it all?

The first two are a viable threat, so they die.

I have had a cobra in my house (quite a big one too) I managed to get it out with no one getting hurt, including the cobra.

I don't have a problem with mice, the cobra takes care of them.

You don't need to exterminate birds to keep them off your crops.

And anyway, you can't use any of those arguments to justify shooting an intelligent creature that wasn't doing any harm.

I have to ask you, do you kill mosquitos who get into your room or land on your arm?  Cockroaches in your home?  Mice?  If a cobra slithers into your kid's room, are you going to stand by because you are actually in its space?  If you had a crop, would you let the birds consume it all?

The first two are a viable threat, so they die.

I have had a cobra in my house (quite a big one too) I managed to get it out with no one getting hurt, including the cobra.

I don't have a problem with mice, the cobra takes care of them.

You don't need to exterminate birds to keep them off your crops.

And anyway, you can't use any of those arguments to justify shooting an intelligent creature that wasn't doing any harm.

Sure I can.  You may not agree with them, but I can certainly use them, and I can even use basic logic to justify them.

How does a cockroach scurrying across your floor become a vaialbe threat?  Sure, it might eat some of your food, but then again, it might not.  But it won't bite you or attack you.  It won't destroy your home.  Yet you kill it. You are the judge and jury, and you say "so they die."

And you don't do anything about mice but let the cobra take care of it?  So you are letting something else take care of your dirty work?

And where does the "intelligent" boundary lie?  Pigs are one of the smartest creatures on earth, yet we kill them with abandon. Do you eat pork?

Now let's look at elephants.  Elephants kill hundreds, if not thousands of people every year, whether this is when they are running amok, searching for alcohol, or eating crops.  They destroy villages and crops. So the potential for any single elephant for doing harm is just as great if not greater than a specific cockroach scurrying across your floor. Culling, which is going on in numerous countries now, is one way to reduce population pressure and thereby reduce human-elephant contact.  The meat of the elephant is given to the nearest village, so the body is not wasted.  

I sure wouldn't shoot an elephant. I won't willingly kill anything except for a mosquito which has landed on my arm. But I do eat meat, and I have a leather belt.  I eat processed food with animal by-products in it.  I eat eggs.  I am extremely bothered by the slaughtering of pigs.  But in typical fashion, I try to not think of it and still enjoy my nice pork burger or chops.

My point is that is is really easy for us to sit in the comfort of our homes in front of a computer and castigate the killing of an elephant when we have not lost our crops to them, we have not lost a family member or friend to them. I find this hypocritical when we do kill other creatures, and we eat and make use of the carcasses of yet more of them.

My point is that is is really easy for us to sit in the comfort of our homes in front of a computer and castigate the killing of an elephant

I agree with almost everything you have said, but my point that I stated much earlier in this thread was that killing animals in the name of sport or fun is just plain wrong.

P.S. Cockroaches can spread some nasty diseases and that is the justification for killing them.

My point is that is is really easy for us to sit in the comfort of our homes in front of a computer and castigate the killing of an elephant

I agree with almost everything you have said, but my point that I stated much earlier in this thread was that killing animals in the name of sport or fun is just plain wrong.

P.S. Cockroaches can spread some nasty diseases and that is the justification for killing them.

And my point is, that while I cannot empathize with someone who wants to do this, it is no more "wrong" than a killer in a slaughterhouse who enjoys his or her job.

This is not indiscriminate slaughter.  There is a reason behind the killing.  This woman was only used as an instrument to it because she paid the government for the privilige, and the money she paid is supposed to go into conservation efforts.

If she hadn't done it, a government hunter would have killed this or a different elephant in its place.

(And yes a cockroach has the potential to be a vector for disease, but the threat is probably overstated:

However, not everyone sees cockroaches as a great danger. According to the website for the Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle, Washington  "For humans, cockroaches pose little threat; practically all species of cockroaches are beneficial to their environment, and they are an invaluable aid in recycling a large majority of the Earth's dead or decaying plant and animal matter. Many people associate cockroaches with the spread of disease. Unlike mosquitoes or fleas, cockroaches do not spread disease via direct transmission (i.e. through the blood as the result of a bite). 

There isn't any hard data of cockroaches actually spreading disease by conveying pathogens, but it most likely has happened.)