Thai Electrics

[djc45]

For a electrical installation to be as safe as possible it needs the correct thickness of wire to be used and the correct amperage fuse to be used. If you use a fuse of higher amperage than the circuit is designed for, then the wire could melt and set on fire or the appliance can be seriously damaged

Fuses are rated in Amperes or Amps as they are more commonly known, a fuse is a deliberate weak link in a circuit and will melt if too much current passes through the fuse. There are several different types of fuse but they all do the same thing which is protect the circuit. A fuse will not stop you from being electrocuted! but a fuse can help prevent electrical fires.

As a general rule of thumb fuses are rated by how many watts that circuit is using, 1000 watts is equal to 4 amps so therefore the maximum single appliance size that can be plugged into a socket is 3000 watts, this would be protected by a 13 amp fuse.

Cartridge fuses are the commonest type of fuse, these are often found in consumer units and domestic electrical plugs.

[Donnyboy]

You should be using a three pin outlet (with ground). That adapter should never be used for something like that (I know - they sell them like that here). If you do not have ground for house wiring I would get a dedicated outlet for that mower and a ground stake installed for it. Does your house at least have a RCD/Safe-T-Cut type device? What I worry about is grass/wet/short to chassis/you/ground/dead.

Most of these mowers are double-insulated and have only a 2 core flex, if this is the case then a 2-pin local plug will be fine, otherwise agreed, a grounded outlet and 3-pin plug is essential.

Agree on the RCD protection (even on a double-insulated machine), biggest danger from these machines is chopping the flex, then picking up the cut end to look at it

house doesnt have the safety cut rcds.

the mower is double insulated and the construction of the chassis is moulded pvc so its unlikely i get zapped from it unless i pick up the cord after ive run over it. The handle is metal but attached to the chassis, so i could get zapped if the cord has exposed wiring touching the metal handle, but it is very unlikely, as i need to run over the cord, then the cord needs to fly up and touch the handle before i can release the saftey release/operator trigger on the handle bar.

I never cut the grass when its wet as the clippings stick to the chassis like sh*t to a blanket, and im aware of where the cord is at all times.

I agree its still a risk, but ive used these types of mowers for years without incident, mainly due to my awareness of where the cord is.

Do plug in type rcds exist in Thailand for thai plug use, like the one shown?

[lopburi3]

Have never seen them for sale here. Nor the outlet types used in the US. But that does not mean they are not available - but I doubt would be UK plug as photo.

If it has a three pin plug I would make sure it was grounded. Unless, as said above, it is a UK model where the third pin is just a socket opener.

As for the posts on fuse protection - when was that dated? Most people stopped using fuse cartridge years ago. Although it may still be common in UK it sure is not here. In fact I never noticed them being used here. They used to use ceramic with replaceable wire for home electric and knife switch's.

[Donnyboy]

Have never seen them for sale here. Nor the outlet types used in the US. But that does not mean they are not available - but I doubt would be UK plug as photo.

If it has a three pin plug I would make sure it was grounded. Unless, as said above, it is a UK model where the third pin is just a socket opener.

As for the posts on fuse protection - when was that dated? Most people stopped using fuse cartridge years ago. Although it may still be common in UK it sure is not here. In fact I never noticed them being used here. They used to use ceramic with replaceable wire for home electric and knife switch's.

is it worthwhile buying a NZ/Aus one?

As i might pick one up in NZ next time im back, and a nz male plug for my lawn mower and weed line trimmer, and a few more just in case.

They trip when theres a short to earth correct? What happens if you dont have a earth wire in the appliance cord or within your house hold wiring? I guess the current flowing via human contact would cause a short to earth tripping the RCD? But will be safe as RCD trips before any damage is done??

In the meantime ive taken the fused plug off and wired in the thai 2 pin plug. BTW the mower cord just had 2 wires, blue and brown. But now at least the plug doesnt slip out of the socket.

Good informative thread btw, thanks y'all

[lopburi3]

That's where the plug is used. Got a monitor from Carrefour with that angle plug a year or so ago - luckily I had a spare or would have been really mad.

The RCD keeps track of the current on both hot and neutral and when they are not the same cuts power immediatly. That should prevent serious medical problems. So if you are the path to ground you get a slight jolt but nothing serious. It will not trip if you/shorts are between the hot and neutral (at least not quickly). It is well worth having - and I have used on water pumps/refrigerators and air-conditioners without major problems (but home is occupied 24 hours so would not trip without someone knowing - people don't want to come back to a hot fridge) - the hardest trip to find was a leakage in an outlet box one time.

[Socket]

Whoa....this is starting to get a little confusing now.There seems to be a difference in opinion on certain things like matching MCB's to circuit types.I've just checked my UK CU and the sockets & cooker are running on 32A and the lights on 6A,which agrees and disagrees with what's in this thread.Any reason why I shouldn't mirror that in Thailand,any ideas??

After reading what djc45 says about using 10A in the CU for the sockets if appliances are 13A,I'm wondering why that isn't what I'm seeing in my UK CU.......confused....excuse the pun.

I just need to ask Crossy why only put 50% of the lights on the RCD,that's also confusing me,I'm sure you have your reasons but could you explain.I plucked a thought out of the air that if the RCD trips then I won't be in total blackout.....but that can't be it....can it??

I just hope I find a competent Thai spark that might be up on the latest electrical knowledge in the world,failing that I'll be buying a guitar some candles and be eating out.

I'd really like a definitive answer for the way to go but I know we probably have sparks from different countries,taught under differing regs posting in this thread,so that may not be possible.That is said with no disrespect to anyone in this thread.

If I was to do a new build or a rewire,do the Thai regs now require grounding,will every outlet be grounded??

[lopburi3]

That is the reason for not having all lights on the RCB. For home I would not be too concerned as most of us can navigate in the dark as have enough failures to get used to it. I have run my house with total RCD for 30 years.

[Crossy]

A few points:-

Haco do RCD outlets, check their website W8416VRCD-30MA http://www.hacothailand.com/product-engsho...&txtsearch=

Do not exceed a 20A breaker on 2.5mm² cable, we do not have UK style ring-mains (which can have 32A breakers) only radials and no plug fuses.

6A for lighting (UK style) would likely be OK, use 1.5mm² cable which is good for 15A, remember the MCB is there to protect the cable. The circuits and ratings used are Australian standard which more closely echo the Thai standards such as they are.

As noted 50% of the lights on the non-RCD side is for avoiding total blackout on an RCD trip (as now required inthe UK).

Anything outdoor needs to be on the RCD side.

Yes, new installs require all grounded outlets.

[Socket]

A few points:-

Haco do RCD outlets, check their website W8416VRCD-30MA http://www.hacothailand.com/product-engsho...&txtsearch=

Do not exceed a 20A breaker on 2.5mm² cable, we do not have UK style ring-mains (which can have 32A breakers) only radials and no plug fuses.

6A for lighting (UK style) would likely be OK, use 1.5mm² cable which is good for 15A, remember the MCB is there to protect the cable. The circuits and ratings used are Australian standard which more closely echo the Thai standards such as they are.

As noted 50% of the lights on the non-RCD side is for avoiding total blackout on an RCD trip (as now required inthe UK).

Anything outdoor needs to be on the RCD side.

Yes, new installs require all grounded outlets.

Thank you very much Crossy......

........you know,you just have a way of explaining things that I can understand without blinding me with terminology,and again, I thank you for that.

Please keep an eye on the thread, as I will no doubt be asking some more questions pretty soon.

[Crossy]

Thank you very much Crossy......

........you know,you just have a way of explaining things that I can understand without blinding me with terminology,and again, I thank you for that.

Please keep an eye on the thread, as I will no doubt be asking some more questions pretty soon.

No problem, I spend a lot of my time explaining highly-technical systems to upper-management and local government ministers, they often require the kiddies explanation

[djc45]

Whoa....this is starting to get a little confusing now.There seems to be a difference in opinion on certain things like matching MCB's to circuit types.I've just checked my UK CU and the sockets & cooker are running on 32A and the lights on 6A,which agrees and disagrees with what's in this thread.Any reason why I shouldn't mirror that in Thailand,any ideas??

After reading what djc45 says about using 10A in the CU for the sockets if appliances are 13A,I'm wondering why that isn't what I'm seeing in my UK CU.......confused....excuse the pun.

I just need to ask Crossy why only put 50% of the lights on the RCD,that's also confusing me,I'm sure you have your reasons but could you explain.I plucked a thought out of the air that if the RCD trips then I won't be in total blackout.....but that can't be it....can it??

I just hope I find a competent Thai spark that might be up on the latest electrical knowledge in the world,failing that I'll be buying a guitar some candles and be eating out.

I'd really like a definitive answer for the way to go but I know we probably have sparks from different countries,taught under differing regs posting in this thread,so that may not be possible.That is said with no disrespect to anyone in this thread.

If I was to do a new build or a rewire,do the Thai regs now require grounding,will every outlet be grounded??

Lets try and clear up any confusion

In the uk all the appliances that are fitted with a plug used in the uk are covered by a local fuse in the plug the fuse rating depends on the wattage as shown earlier

The cable that comes from the cu (the fuse board) that feeds the out let is covered by a further fuse in the cu or more common these days a mcb (mini circuit breaker) the cu is covered by a main board breaker older fuse boards just had an on off switch some boards are also covered by an rcd (residual current detection)

The main confusion here is that all the appliances used with thai electrics is there is no fuse fitted at the plug of the appliance

So the only protection you have is in the cu by way of a fuse or mcb for that outlet for example if you have your outlets covered by a 20amp mcb as suggested earlier and you plug in a lamp, the lamp is covered by a 20 amp fuse when the rating is only 3amp as in the uk and so on

In my opinion and with no disrespect to anyone giving advice as it is only my opinion new build or a rewire I would have a split rcd cu run separate feeds from the cu to the outlets and try where possible to rate the mcb to match what you will use at the outlet ie the outlets that you will use the kettle. Toaster, iron that use high power either a 10 or 16 amp mcb 6 amp or 10amp for everything else as they don’t do a 3amp mcb showers cookers aircons should not be fitted with a plug and should have a twin pole isolation switch

The outlets that feed your fridge. Freezers and some of the lights should be fed from the none rcd side of the cu the reason for this is when the fridge or freezer starts up I can sometimes cause the rcd to trip even though there is no fault because of the electronics they use,

the reason you should not cover all the lights on the rcd is because if you do get a fault that trips the rcd you will be without any lights if needed to see

as for the earth rods or grounding this is open for discussion as most of the thai electrics don’t come with an earth fitted to the plug

also never add an earth wire to anything that is doubly insulated as this is dangerous

make sure all showers have an earth

earth bonding is a more complicated matter than most people think

also be very careful with the main incoming cables mark the live with bands of red insulation tape

I recently went to help a friend who had problems where they had had a fault with the main supply after a storm and we assume that when the repairs were made by the thai electric company they mixed up the cables coming from his electric meter and he ended up with the live cable connected to the neutral and the neutral connected to the live this meant all his outlets were live on the neutral this meant there was no protection at the cu on the mcbs

I do hope this can help you and is not as confusing as before

[djc45]

Whoa....this is starting to get a little confusing now.There seems to be a difference in opinion on certain things like matching MCB's to circuit types.I've just checked my UK CU and the sockets & cooker are running on 32A and the lights on 6A,which agrees and disagrees with what's in this thread.Any reason why I shouldn't mirror that in Thailand,any ideas??

After reading what djc45 says about using 10A in the CU for the sockets if appliances are 13A,I'm wondering why that isn't what I'm seeing in my UK CU.......confused....excuse the pun.

its the fuse fitted in the plug, uk ringmain at the cu 32amp this is because of the amount of outlets that could be used, but at the plug the fuse in the plug should match the appliance

if you mirror uk electrics you would need to use uk fused plugs on all your appliances

[Socket]

if you mirror uk electrics you would need to use uk fused plugs on all your appliances

So hypothetically would it be OK to cut the 2 pin plug off of any Thai appliance I buy and wire it to a UK 3 pin fused plug using live and neutral pins??

I'm probably not gonna do that but I would like to know anyway,I'm now leaning towards a radial rewire with an earth, and then using universal outlets.

djc45 you're not too far away from me - KhuKhan,how do you fancy earning a few bucks in the new year.

Thanks.

[djc45]

if you mirror uk electrics you would need to use uk fused plugs on all your appliances

So hypothetically would it be OK to cut the 2 pin plug off of any Thai appliance I buy and wire it to a UK 3 pin fused plug using live and neutral pins??

I'm probably not gonna do that but I would like to know anyway,I'm now leaning towards a radial rewire with an earth, and then using universal outlets.

djc45 you're not too far away from me - KhuKhan,how do you fancy earning a few bucks in the new year.

Thanks.

yes to both... if i can help will do you, have grasped what you need now, the fitting of a uk fused plug would be the best solution for us all and safer you could also do well bringing some s/w fused spurs in from the uk then you can have a greater controll ovet the safe use of your electrics

you can pm me for my contact details

[Crossy]

Well ^^^ so long as you use SMALLER MCBs than those noted then you will have no issues, and your installation will approach UK safety levels. That said, the ratings quoted have been used in Australia for many years and the Thai regs are based upon the same roots as the Aussie.

The UK is almost unique in having fused plugs and over-rated (32A) outlet circuits. There is some interesting history behind the ring-main and fused plugs, amazingly none of which is involved with safety

A WORD OF WARNING to those who want to use the 'universal' outlets. Thai outlets have live on the LEFT if you look at them with the ground at the top, a UK outlet has live on the RIGHT. This means that inserting a UK plug into a universal outlet will put the fuse in the neutral, not really a good situation.

If you really want to mirror UK you should use proper BS 1363 outlets (obtainable in Malaysia). Remember though, that BS 1363 outlets are not explicitly permitted by the regs and that the inspector may well fail a new installation that uses them

[daytraderuk99]

Well ^^^ so long as you use SMALLER MCBs than those noted then you will have no issues, and your installation will approach UK safety levels. That said, the ratings quoted have been used in Australia for many years and the Thai regs are based upon the same roots as the Aussie.

The UK is almost unique in having fused plugs and over-rated (32A) outlet circuits. There is some interesting history behind the ring-main and fused plugs, amazingly none of which is involved with safety

A WORD OF WARNING to those who want to use the 'universal' outlets. Thai outlets have live on the LEFT if you look at them with the ground at the top, a UK outlet has live on the RIGHT. This means that inserting a UK plug into a universal outlet will put the fuse in the neutral, not really a good situation.

If you really want to mirror UK you should use proper BS 1363 outlets (obtainable in Malaysia). Remember though, that BS 1363 outlets are not explicitly permitted by the regs and that the inspector may well fail a new installation that uses them

sorry to hijack this informative topic, but could someone tell me if its ok for me to bring from uk .smaller electric items like..hairdryer, curling tongs, portable cd radio , iron.. etc and plug the 3 pin uk plug ...into a thai 2 pin adapter and then into the thai 2 pin wall sockets......thanks for any advice ..michelle

[Crossy]

sorry to hijack this informative topic, but could someone tell me if its ok for me to bring from uk .smaller electric items like..hairdryer, curling tongs, portable cd radio , iron.. etc and plug the 3 pin uk plug ...into a thai 2 pin adapter and then into the thai 2 pin wall sockets......thanks for any advice ..michelle

Hi Michelle

Of the above only the iron would be a problem. The other appliances will likely be Class-2 (double insulated) and only require 2 wires (no ground needed).

Irons usually require a ground to be totally safe. It will of course work, but mixing water (steam iron) and electricity without proper grounding is a risk. You could get one of the PowerBreaker portable RCDs and plug the iron into that before plugging into the outlet, not ideal but will add a significant margin of safety. NOTE A travel iron should be double insulated so no need to worry

One of these:-

[daytraderuk99]

sorry to hijack this informative topic, but could someone tell me if its ok for me to bring from uk .smaller electric items like..hairdryer, curling tongs, portable cd radio , iron.. etc and plug the 3 pin uk plug ...into a thai 2 pin adapter and then into the thai 2 pin wall sockets......thanks for any advice ..michelle

Hi Michelle

Of the above only the iron would be a problem. The other appliances will likely be Class-2 (double insulated) and only require 2 wires (no ground needed).

Irons usually require a ground to be totally safe. It will of course work, but mixing water (steam iron) and electricity without proper grounding is a risk. You could get one of the PowerBreaker portable RCDs and plug the iron into that before plugging into the outlet, not ideal but will add a significant margin of safety. NOTE A travel iron should be double insulated so no need to worry

One of these:-

hi thanks for the info crossy much appreciated, just a small point would the 200 watt curling tongs heat up to the same power as if they were in the uk ? and would it be ok to cut off the three pin uk plugs and fit thai 2 pin plugs or am i better just buying 3 pin adapters thanks again michelle x

[Crossy]

hi thanks for the info crossy much appreciated, just a small point would the 200 watt curling tongs heat up to the same power as if they were in the uk ? and would it be ok to cut off the three pin uk plugs and fit thai 2 pin plugs or am i better just buying 3 pin adapters thanks again michelle x

You shouldn't notice any difference in operation of your tongs

If you're going to be here permanently then do replace the plugs (the fewer adaptors you use the better) but for a short stay the WonPro adaptors (from HomePro) are pretty good.

[djc45]

b]A WORD OF WARNING[/b] to those who want to use the 'universal' outlets. Thai outlets have live on the LEFT if you look at them with the ground at the top, a UK outlet has live on the RIGHT. This means that inserting a UK plug into a universal outlet will put the fuse in the neutral, not really a good situation.

If you really want to mirror UK you should use proper BS 1363 outlets (obtainable in Malaysia). Remember though, that BS 1363 outlets are not explicitly permitted by the regs and that the inspector may well fail a new installation that uses them

the ones from global are live on the right the brand name is lonon 13amp 250v

[

Edited July 20, 2009 by djc45

[djc45]

sorry to hijack this informative topic, but could someone tell me if its ok for me to bring from uk .smaller electric items like..hairdryer, curling tongs, portable cd radio , iron.. etc and plug the 3 pin uk plug ...into a thai 2 pin adapter and then into the thai 2 pin wall sockets......thanks for any advice ..michelle

Hi Michelle

Of the above only the iron would be a problem. The other appliances will likely be Class-2 (double insulated) and only require 2 wires (no ground needed).

Irons usually require a ground to be totally safe. It will of course work, but mixing water (steam iron) and electricity without proper grounding is a risk. You could get one of the PowerBreaker portable RCDs and plug the iron into that before plugging into the outlet, not ideal but will add a significant margin of safety. NOTE A travel iron should be double insulated so no need to worry

One of these:-

i am not sure if this type of rcd would work if used in an outlet where the live is on the left istead of the right they might be polarity sensitive as the live is on the right in the uk as you pointed out earlier

[daytraderuk99]

hi thanks for the info crossy much appreciated, just a small point would the 200 watt curling tongs heat up to the same power as if they were in the uk ? and would it be ok to cut off the three pin uk plugs and fit thai 2 pin plugs or am i better just buying 3 pin adapters thanks again michelle x

You shouldn't notice any difference in operation of your tongs

If you're going to be here permanently then do replace the plugs (the fewer adaptors you use the better) but for a short stay the WonPro adaptors (from HomePro) are pretty good.

many thanks for your help . you are very kind..michelle x

[djc45]

sorry to hijack this informative topic, but could someone tell me if its ok for me to bring from uk .smaller electric items like..hairdryer, curling tongs, portable cd radio , iron.. etc and plug the 3 pin uk plug ...into a thai 2 pin adapter and then into the thai 2 pin wall sockets......thanks for any advice ..michelle

Hi Michelle

Of the above only the iron would be a problem. The other appliances will likely be Class-2 (double insulated) and only require 2 wires (no ground needed).

Irons usually require a ground to be totally safe. It will of course work, but mixing water (steam iron) and electricity without proper grounding is a risk. You could get one of the PowerBreaker portable RCDs and plug the iron into that before plugging into the outlet, not ideal but will add a significant margin of safety. NOTE A travel iron should be double insulated so no need to worry

One of these:-

i am not sure if this type of rcd would work if used in an outlet where the live is on the left istead of the right they might be polarity sensitive as the live is on the right in the uk as you pointed out earlier

have had a reply from the uk spplier wo say that theese type of plug in rcds will work here fine they are not polaity sensitive

[djc45]

hi crossy nice website you have

on the subject of earthing do the earth spikes have to be a set distance from where the neutral is set in the ground also is one earth spike enough or would it be better to have more than one

can you offer advice as to earthing the steel in the roof and offer any advice to help protect against lightening strikes

[Crossy]

hi crossy nice website you have

on the subject of earthing do the earth spikes have to be a set distance from where the neutral is set in the ground also is one earth spike enough or would it be better to have more than one

can you offer advice as to earthing the steel in the roof and offer any advice to help protect against lightening strikes

Thanks for verifying that those RCD units will work with the polarity reversed

Any neutral grounds should be provided by the supply authority, either just at the transformer or at multiple points along its length (if your area has MEN / PME). You should not interfere with these grounds.

Your ground rod should be well away from the neutral grounds, linking ground and neutral in your consumer unit should be the only connection and this link must only be present if MEN / PME is implemented (if you're not sure don't link). If you have multiple ground rods then each must have its own wire back to the ground bar in your consumer unit (don't daisy chain them) and keep them at least 3m apart.

Opinion is divided about lightning protection of steel roof structures. My personal preference would be to ground the roof structure to a seperate ground rod as far as possible from your power ground rod. This will prevent your roof structure building up unpleasant voltages thus protecting your delecate electronics. However, in the event of a direct strike you could get side-strikes to power wiring (with associated risk of fires), IMHO the risk of a direct strike to a regular home is actually small. The alternative is to link all your grounds, this reduces the risk of side-strikes but also increases the risk of induced voltages from your roof stucture getting at your electronics. As they say Up2U

[djc45]

hi crossy nice website you have

on the subject of earthing do the earth spikes have to be a set distance from where the neutral is set in the ground also is one earth spike enough or would it be better to have more than one

can you offer advice as to earthing the steel in the roof and offer any advice to help protect against lightening strikes

Thanks for verifying that those RCD units will work with the polarity reversed

Any neutral grounds should be provided by the supply authority, either just at the transformer or at multiple points along its length (if your area has MEN / PME). You should not interfere with these grounds.

Your ground rod should be well away from the neutral grounds, linking ground and neutral in your consumer unit should be the only connection and this link must only be present if MEN / PME is implemented (if you're not sure don't link). If you have multiple ground rods then each must have its own wire back to the ground bar in your consumer unit (don't daisy chain them) and keep them at least 3m apart.

Opinion is divided about lightning protection of steel roof structures. My personal preference would be to ground the roof structure to a seperate ground rod as far as possible from your power ground rod. This will prevent your roof structure building up unpleasant voltages thus protecting your delecate electronics. However, in the event of a direct strike you could get side-strikes to power wiring (with associated risk of fires), IMHO the risk of a direct strike to a regular home is actually small. The alternative is to link all your grounds, this reduces the risk of side-strikes but also increases the risk of induced voltages from your roof stucture getting at your electronics. As they say Up2U

thanks crossy for your help and advice i hope more people would read your electric advice on your web site and follow it unsafe electrics can kill

[toret]

Never connected a gas stove so I cant say for sure, but my assumption is that it connects in the same way as a regular ringburner.

If putting it in the container or not dont matter to price and available space, up to you.

But it is a fact that burning gas gives off moisture, as electric heating seems to dry the air out. So those roasted ribs will be much juicier in a gas stove, as long as you get used to the difference in time/temp and dont end up with bacon crisp.

Me, i would have sold the old bugger and got a full gas thingy with perhaps one electric plate for slow heating, something gas dont do well.

[Socket]

the ones from global are live on the right the brand name is lonon 13amp 250v

[

That's good to know for everyone and just to keep the thread informative for all....I take it Global is the retailer(outlet),do you have a link to a site??

Thanks djc45

[citizen33]

The OP was considering re-wiring. Crossy rightly says that the standard Thai layout is radial wiring, as for example explained on the CoolThaihouse website, but if you're starting from scratch is it worth putting in ring mains? That is what I've done on the two Thai houses I've wired and the inspector (who admittedly did not seem very thorough) seemed happy enough. What does Crossy think?

[Crossy]

the ones from global are live on the right the brand name is lonon 13amp 250v

[

Trouble is, if you plug a Thai 3-pin plug in it will be wrongly connected

With any of the universals you can't get them to be correct for all plugs