Can Someone Settle This Argument?

[trogers]

A designer ceiling fan. Cost is probably over Bt5k.

And the rest mate, it's 450 Euros in Italy ( http://www.deckenventilator.com/advanced_s...amp;x=0&y=0 one of the few sites I could find with prices) that's 21,600 Baht, it will take a LONG time to recover the 40W or so it's reckoned to save.

There's another single blade design from the same place at a whopping 1,200 Euros = 58,000 Baht.

Hmmm...he must be a serious fan of the movie 'I, Robot'!

But if I want to show my real wealth, I will follow the movie 'Back to the Future' and use those hanging carpets of India operated by slaves.

Edited July 29, 2009 by trogers

[tjo o tjim]

Ceiling fans are actually more effective than floor fans in terms of total air circulation per watt. You don't have the pressure drop of the safety screen, and your tip speed is significantly lower.

Maybe not as cool as Crossy's fans, but bigassfans.com are a great example. You can have a 200 Watt motor driving a 18' diameter fan. Actual consumption is usually much less as the speed is ramped down.

If you need the air circulation for the whole space, evenly distributed, then the the ceiling fan works best. If you just need air circulation for a small area then the floor stand or column type fans work better...

[Crossy]

You can have a 200 Watt motor driving a 18' diameter fan.

Just re-read that post, that's 18 FEET diameter, won't even fit in our lounge

[trogers]

You can have a 200 Watt motor driving a 18' diameter fan.

Just re-read that post, that's 18 FEET diameter, won't even fit in our lounge

Remember seeing them running in non-aircon airport terminal buildings back in the 60s...

[robertsonmartin]

Here are some measurements I did a few years ago when I had wayyyy too much time on my hands. It was calculated from the electric meter with no other electric usage in the house.

This is for a regular 5 blade ceiling fan and a Hatari 16" floor stand fan, electric cost of 3.5 baht / unit

Ceiling Fan - Speed #1 - 0.0385 kW - 1hr running cost 0.13 baht

Ceiling Fan - Speed #2 - 0.0630 kW - 1hr running cost 0.22 baht

Ceiling Fan - Speed #3 - 0.1067 kW - 1hr running cost 0.37 baht

Floor Fan - Speed #1 - 0.0484 kW - 1hr running cost 0.17 baht

Floor Fan - Speed #2 - 0.0534 kW - 1hr running cost 0.19 baht

Floor Fan - Speed #3 - 0.0606 kW - 1hr running cost 0.21 baht

It looks like the ceiling fan is more efficient on lower speeds than the floor fan, but once the speed is increased then the floor fan is more efficient than the ceiling fan.

Hope the above helps.

[trogers]

Here are some measurements I did a few years ago when I had wayyyy too much time on my hands. It was calculated from the electric meter with no other electric usage in the house.

This is for a regular 5 blade ceiling fan and a Hatari 16" floor stand fan, electric cost of 3.5 baht / unit

Ceiling Fan - Speed #1 - 0.0385 kW - 1hr running cost 0.13 baht

Ceiling Fan - Speed #2 - 0.0630 kW - 1hr running cost 0.22 baht

Ceiling Fan - Speed #3 - 0.1067 kW - 1hr running cost 0.37 baht

Floor Fan - Speed #1 - 0.0484 kW - 1hr running cost 0.17 baht

Floor Fan - Speed #2 - 0.0534 kW - 1hr running cost 0.19 baht

Floor Fan - Speed #3 - 0.0606 kW - 1hr running cost 0.21 baht

It looks like the ceiling fan is more efficient on lower speeds than the floor fan, but once the speed is increased then the floor fan is more efficient than the ceiling fan.

Hope the above helps.

Cannot conclude without comparative measures of volume of air propelled, and air velocity.

[robertsonmartin]

Cannot conclude without comparative measures of volume of air propelled, and air velocity.

Yea I know but I didn't have my wind tunnel and pitot tubes with me that day. Gives an idea of electric usage though.

Edited July 29, 2009 by robertsonmartin

[elkangorito]

I can't see an argument here.

Most "normal" ceiling fans are usually rated from about 100W to about 150W. Most floor fans are rated from about 40W to about 80W.

Disregarding any setting, the bigger motor will use more power than the smaller motor.

[toptuan]

After reading this whole frickin' thread, I decree ceiling fans are cheaper.

Settled.

Yours truly,

An English Major

[elkangorito]

After reading this whole frickin' thread, I decree ceiling fans are cheaper.

Settled.

Yours truly,

An English Major

I'm glad you're an English Major (or is that a Colonel?) & not an Electrical Major

[toptuan]

After reading this whole frickin' thread, I decree ceiling fans are cheaper.

Settled.

Yours truly,

An English Major

I'm glad you're an English Major (or is that a Colonel?) & not an Electrical Major

That's an American English, non-Electrical, non-Engineering Major. However, the training helps me to sound authoritative in written prose...

[elkangorito]

After reading this whole frickin' thread, I decree ceiling fans are cheaper.

Settled.

Yours truly,

An English Major

I'm glad you're an English Major (or is that a Colonel?) & not an Electrical Major

That's an American English, non-Electrical, non-Engineering Major. However, the training helps me to sound authoritative in written prose...

Glad to see you have a sense of humour.

Cheers.

[lopburi3]

As the ceiling fan is moving the hottest air in the house, and are not directional, suspect the lower level stand, or floor fans would win for home use. For me a remote control Hatari fan with 'natural air' function is my choice when in non air conditioned area. This model turns off/on to provide ebb/flow of air that does not give you the wind tunnel effect. Probably not the most economical setting but fan seem to take time getting to speed so don't believe it is drawing that much current. In any event - any fan is much more economical than an air conditioner.

[robertsonmartin]

As the ceiling fan is moving the hottest air in the house, and are not directional, suspect the lower level stand, or floor fans would win for home use. For me a remote control Hatari fan with 'natural air' function is my choice when in non air conditioned area. This model turns off/on to provide ebb/flow of air that does not give you the wind tunnel effect. Probably not the most economical setting but fan seem to take time getting to speed so don't believe it is drawing that much current. In any event - any fan is much more economical than an air conditioner.

Agreed. Unless you are pretty much right below the ceiling fan, the floor fan on oscillate mode is going to throw more air towards you.

Personal preference wins I would think and anyway the difference in running costs between them both might amount to the cost of a bottle of beer over the month.

Saw some nice vertical style column floor fans that sit in the corner of a room the other day that look pretty nice. They had the negative ion "technology" which I guess is meant to do something to the air. Not sure what though.!!

[trogers]

Saw some nice vertical style column floor fans that sit in the corner of a room the other day that look pretty nice. They had the negative ion "technology" which I guess is meant to do something to the air. Not sure what though.!!

Help clearing body odours?

[lopburi3]

Neg Ion has been around for decades and controversial. Todays Bangkok Post has full page add claiming protection from flu and other virus. Rather sick advertising in my opinion - the fine print read 1cm container for 24 minutes did something to the virus - it probably died of old age.

The old units filled the air and attached to dirt - making the dirt fall (hopefully) but more often making it stick to walls/lights/furniture and anything else in the room. After awhile you were living in a black walled cave. Yes; it removed smoke/dirt/odors. But the results were not pretty. A second type combined them with electrostatic cleaners - that helped but the cleaners were a bear to keep clean.

[neverdie]

BKKJames' is right, as a rule of thumb. You need to determine what wattage the motors are.

Watts = power

Electricity is billed in kwh, thousands of watts per hour. For example, a 100 w lightbulb will cost 1 kwh after 10 hours use

Thanks Harcourt: Do you make house calls?

Hehe...from what Neverdie intimated to me, I'll have to say, no, sorry I don't.

i did what harcourt?

[elkangorito]

Can someone please tell me how a 50 Watt fan (floor type) uses less power than a 120 Watt fan (ceiling type)?

[trogers]

Can someone please tell me how a 50 Watt fan (floor type) uses less power than a 120 Watt fan (ceiling type)?

How? It is only 50W. So in an hour the 50W fan consumes only 0.05kwh. And the 120W fan consumes 0.12kwh in that same hour.

Same as a 15W light bulb and a 100W light bulb.

[elkangorito]

Can someone please tell me how a 50 Watt fan (floor type) uses less power than a 120 Watt fan (ceiling type)?

How? It is only 50W. So in an hour the 50W fan consumes only 0.05kwh. And the 120W fan consumes 0.12kwh in that same hour.

Same as a 15W light bulb and a 100W light bulb.

Stupid me!! I meant to say, "Can someone please tell me how a 50 Watt fan (floor type) uses more power than a 120 Watt fan (ceiling type)?

Sorry about that.

[trogers]

Can someone please tell me how a 50 Watt fan (floor type) uses less power than a 120 Watt fan (ceiling type)?

How? It is only 50W. So in an hour the 50W fan consumes only 0.05kwh. And the 120W fan consumes 0.12kwh in that same hour.

Same as a 15W light bulb and a 100W light bulb.

Stupid me!! I meant to say, "Can someone please tell me how a 50 Watt fan (floor type) uses more power than a 120 Watt fan (ceiling type)?

Sorry about that.

If you are asking which type of fan is more efficient, there is no conclusion without laboratory tests that plots power consumption against volume of air and speed of air moved. The posts above are all subjective points of view.

[elkangorito]

I am not eluding to any type of "efficiency". What I'm trying to say is that a smaller motor will use less power than a larger motor. In the case of fans, ceiling fans are usually of a higher wattage than floor fans and as such will use more power than floor fans...full stop!!

If one wishes to compare power usage with regard to speed settings, one must stipulate what type of unit controls the speed. i.e. choke (induction), resistance or waveform modification (electronic).

At the end of the day, a larger motor will use more power than a smaller motor if compared on the same speed settings..

[trogers]

I am not eluding to any type of "efficiency". What I'm trying to say is that a smaller motor will use less power than a larger motor. In the case of fans, ceiling fans are usually of a higher wattage than floor fans and as such will use more power than floor fans...full stop!!

If one wishes to compare power usage with regard to speed settings, one must stipulate what type of unit controls the speed. i.e. choke (induction), resistance or waveform modification (electronic).

At the end of the day, a larger motor will use more power than a smaller motor if compared on the same speed settings..

That is what I have said - a 50W will consume less than 120W in an hour.

Rotational speed of blades is a factor, but so is the length of the blades - same speed but moving different volume of air.

[elkangorito]

I am not eluding to any type of "efficiency". What I'm trying to say is that a smaller motor will use less power than a larger motor. In the case of fans, ceiling fans are usually of a higher wattage than floor fans and as such will use more power than floor fans...full stop!!

If one wishes to compare power usage with regard to speed settings, one must stipulate what type of unit controls the speed. i.e. choke (induction), resistance or waveform modification (electronic).

At the end of the day, a larger motor will use more power than a smaller motor if compared on the same speed settings..

That is what I have said - a 50W will consume less than 120W in an hour.

Rotational speed of blades is a factor, but so is the length of the blades - same speed but moving different volume of air.

How does this affect the current (amps) used? Remember, this is about a comparison between 2 different types of fans with different size motors.

Edited July 31, 2009 by elkangorito

[robertsonmartin]

Take the following scenario into consideration:

What about if a ceiling fan with a 100W motor with tiny tiny blades on it was compared to a floor fan with a 50W motor on it with huge blades on it.

Surely? the ceiling fan is going to pull practically no current due to almost no load on it. Against the smaller motor with a huge load on it. Less current = Less consumed power = Less used electricity.

I would guess in this case the ceiling fan would use less kWHr than the floor fan even though the floor fan has a smaller rated motor.

So the size of the attached load also has to factor into the calculation, and not only the size of the motor. However ceiling fans more often than not have longer blades than a floor fan (hence the need for a larger motor in the first place).

Make Sense?

[trogers]

I see it pointless to try comparing these two types of fans on just the basis of current or power usage. A floor fan has shorter blades and its speed settings are for higher rpm on all settings compared to a ceiling fan.

[Artisi]

I see it pointless to try comparing these two types of fans on just the basis of current or power usage. A floor fan has shorter blades and its speed settings are for higher rpm on all settings compared to a ceiling fan.

Correct to a point that it is pointless comparing the two types of fans. The only comparision that makes any sense is to compare the amount of air handled by each type of fan over a set time. Blade size, speed or the colour, being vertically mounted or horizontal mounted doesn't make any difference. The factors that govern the amount of "power" used are, fan blade efficiency, motor efficiency, the amount of air across the fan blades etc.

Therefore making an assumption that the blade efficiency and the motor efficiency is the same for either floor mounted or ceiling mounted fans and each is set to run at a speed that delivers an identical airflow across the blades - then the power input will be the same to each unit.

[elkangorito]

In Thailand most rooms are fitted with ceiling fans, with about three speed settings. Floor fans are readily available in the stores with also three speed settings (and a swing).

Here is the question. Which uses the greater amount of power (electrical units)?

I would have thought the same, but Thai's insist the ceiling fans burn much more power.

What do you think?

The fan with the larger size motor will use electrical energy.

[elkangorito]

In Thailand most rooms are fitted with ceiling fans, with about three speed settings. Floor fans are readily available in the stores with also three speed settings (and a swing).

Here is the question. Which uses the greater amount of power (electrical units)?

I would have thought the same, but Thai's insist the ceiling fans burn much more power.

What do you think?

The fan with the larger size motor will use electrical energy.

Sorry. I meant to say;

The fan with the larger size motor will use more electrical energy.

[trogers]

In Thailand most rooms are fitted with ceiling fans, with about three speed settings. Floor fans are readily available in the stores with also three speed settings (and a swing).

Here is the question. Which uses the greater amount of power (electrical units)?

I would have thought the same, but Thai's insist the ceiling fans burn much more power.

What do you think?

The fan with the larger size motor will use electrical energy.

Sorry. I meant to say;

The fan with the larger size motor will use more electrical energy.

If a Thai were to tell me the local logic, I will encourage the purchase of a plastic fan with 4" dia blades that runs on disposable batteries. Tell the Thai this fan will use the least electric power and great to cool a party of 8 during a drinking session.