http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/a...tober_2009.html

Wow, that's a crazy link man!

I thought the photography was very good.

As for content it shows pictures from both sides.

Sad though isn't it?

It's amazing that anyone would argue for going to war. It's equally amazing how twisted logic can become when killing people is actually believed to be a valid means to an end. No arguments from war proponents needed . . . just march yourselves off to war and don't be afraid to act according to your beliefs.

It's amazing that anyone would think they could win a war in Afghanistan at all. Don't they have history books that they can read?

It's amazing that anyone would think they could win a war in Afghanistan at all. Don't they have history books that they can read?

Exactly......... Areas like the Khyber Pass has toppled or taken its toll on so many before....

This one if pursued will make the other (stupid) policing action <sic> in Vietnam seem tame.

Afghanistan is where old/bold empires go to die.

Someone sent me this link. Interesting regarding the TAPI pipeline.

http://www.paltelegraph.com/opinions/edito...is-it-all-about

Perhaps because the purported intent of the war in Afghanistan is not the true intent?

That's an interesting read flying!

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/a...tober_2009.html

Great link there flying.

Things are not as they seem in Afghanistan.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KJ29Df01.html

Regards.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/10/a...tober_2009.html

Great link there flying.

Things are not as they seem in Afghanistan.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KJ29Df01.html

Regards.

A quote from the piece:

"In part it stems from an inability to believe that major foreign armies cannot defeat a ragtag bunch of insurgents; in addition, Afghanistan has been a center of foreign intrigue for so long that belief in plots comes naturally to many war-weary Afghans. "

Hello! That ragtag bunch of insurgents have been defeating major foreign armies since Alexander the Great came calling. Do these people have some sort of short term memory problem? It's only 20 years ago that the Soviets got their &lt;deleted&gt; kicked.

Things are not as they seem in Afghanistan.

Same as all the US supposed policing actions.

It is never as it seems.

It is always a move for control. Go in during election times & try to install a puppet regime. It is shameful

Hello! That ragtag bunch of insurgents have been defeating major foreign armies since Alexander the Great came calling. Do these people have some sort of short term memory problem? It's only 20 years ago that the Soviets got their &lt;deleted&gt; kicked.

Yes that is why I said Afghanistan is where old/bold empires go to die.

The Russians not only got their butts kicked they went home broke & with a drug problem.

We have no legitimate reason to be there.

It is a no win situation. Unless someone was willing to go in & nuke the whole region for no apparent reason they will never win. The tribes live this way & always have. They will hurt the insurgents & move constantly. They have a saying in the Khyber pass...."Sons & Guns"

Hello! That ragtag bunch of insurgents have been defeating major foreign armies since Alexander the Great came calling. Do these people have some sort of short term memory problem? It's only 20 years ago that the Soviets got their &lt;deleted&gt; kicked.

Yes that is why I said Afghanistan is where old/bold empires go to die.

The Russians not only got their butts kicked they went home broke & with a drug problem.

We have no legitimate reason to be there.

It is a no win situation. Unless someone was willing to go in & nuke the whole region for no apparent reason they will never win. The tribes live this way & always have. They will hurt the insurgents & move constantly. They have a saying in the Khyber pass...."Sons & Guns"

That is a simply amazing clip!

There's nothing new in the idea that the Afghan invasion was/is all about oil and oil transportation.

9/11 conspiracy theorists cited the pipeline as the reason for the Twin Towers "attack"; it gave Bush an excuse to invade.

Bush declared war on drugs but it wasn't enough to allow the US into Afghanistan so he needed something else. 9/11.

In the same way non-existant WOMD were the excuse to get into Iraq and capture Iraq's oil.

There's nothing new in the idea that the Afghan invasion was/is all about oil and oil transportation.

9/11 conspiracy theorists cited the pipeline as the reason for the Twin Towers "attack"; it gave Bush an excuse to invade.

Bush declared war on drugs but it wasn't enough to allow the US into Afghanistan so he needed something else. 9/11.

In the same way non-existant WOMD were the excuse to get into Iraq and capture Iraq's oil.

Pretty much the reason why I like RP's What If speech so much.

Really the best speech I have ever heard a politician give

And he's a republican!

I find it intriguing that he spoke about protecting the US AND Israel as if including another nation is the normal agenda for US national security.

I think he's right though that much of the agression towards the US today is a REaction to US imperialism of the past.

An F in history is the most essential qualification for politicians these days.

And he's a republican!

I find it intriguing that he spoke about protecting the US AND Israel as if including another nation is the normal agenda for US national security.

He ran for president on the Libertarian ticket & is a member of the Liberty Caucus of Republican congressmen which aims to limit the size and scope of the Federal Government.

I think he only mentions Israel because of who he is addressing. He knows you cannot escape the fact that much of our policy is based on that relationship.

Sad but true & it has its effect. Look at who really has Obama's ear....Rahm Emanuel

Ron Paul - Get Out of Afghanistan 11/18/09

No relation to Rue Paul?

Not a packed chamber.....empty actually. Why? Was the speech predicted and thus boycotted, or did Ron Paul choose a quiet time to make his point?

Not a packed chamber.....empty actually. Why? Was the speech predicted and thus boycotted, or did Ron Paul choose a quiet time to make his point?

You know I often wonder about that.

Not just this speech by this congressman but many speeches by many congress.

I often see empty chairs & wonder if they are sitting on the other side with the camera or

where is the speech taking place etc. Then again knowing how ignorant of issues most congress critters are

I imagine most are out somewhere having a fling with one of their secretaries etc. or having a lunch etc.

I hope the 2010 elections will see many chairs emptied of their current empty brained empty conscious tenants.

forgot there was a 2nd part too...........

But also on a side note about the empty chambers....

a possible thought........

Because it gets into the official record. Maybe nobody is listening now; but maybe in the future they will look back on our history/past/official record and learn from our mistakes.

Not to mention that RP speeches now become viral and spread out on the internet where perhaps they can affect change in the electorate. So perhaps the congress critters aren't listening but their constituents are.

PS: given his age it is kind of funny when he says it blows my mind

Not a packed chamber.....empty actually. Why? Was the speech predicted and thus boycotted, or did Ron Paul choose a quiet time to make his point?

You know I often wonder about that.

Not just this speech by this congressman but many speeches by many congress.

I often see empty chairs & wonder if they are sitting on the other side with the camera or

where is the speech taking place etc. Then again knowing how ignorant of issues most congress critters are

I imagine most are out somewhere having a fling with one of their secretaries etc. or having a lunch etc.

I hope the 2010 elections will see many chairs emptied of their current empty brained empty conscious tenants.

The game of politics.

Some politicians may support what he says, but party politics prevent them saying so, hence they find an excuse not to be present so as not to have to vote against his motion.

Other's, officially on his side of the fence, know what he will be saying, find it politically dangerous to be seen supporting him, so also avoid the chamber.

Since House of Representative persons must be re-elected every two years, most of them spend their time in their offices raising money or working on finding a nice place to go at the government's expense.

He is probably giving a speech during what's called "debate", when nobody really cares about debating legislation. Most of them have already decided on whether they will support an issue or not and debate will add little to their decision.

Don't confuse them with facts, their mind is made up. They will either vote the party line or find somebody with deep pockets that can support them, for their vote of course.

Am I cynical, you ask??

Yup!!

Since House of Representative persons must be re-elected every two years, most of them spend their time in their offices raising money or working on finding a nice place to go at the government's expense.

He is probably giving a speech during what's called "debate", when nobody really cares about debating legislation. Most of them have already decided on whether they will support an issue or not and debate will add little to their decision.

Don't confuse them with facts, their mind is made up. They will either vote the party line or find somebody with deep pockets that can support them, for their vote of course.

Am I cynical, you ask??

Yup!!

I think you're spot-on.

And that's the thing that annoys me the most about all politicians in every country.

A fairly recent fashion in parliaments and congress' (Congri? ) was the accusation of "flip-flop", and percieved by most as a bad thing; "The guy can't make up his mind...he's indecisive...he didn't research his initial stance properly"...etc.

I applaud the person that can take a stance, listen to new information, and recant what was initially said.

Politicians are too busy and interested in getting re-elected to actully listen to, and think about what is good, for their constituents and country.

ANOTHER basic flaw of today's democracy model/models.

Hello! That ragtag bunch of insurgents have been defeating major foreign armies since Alexander the Great came calling. Do these people have some sort of short term memory problem? It's only 20 years ago that the Soviets got their &lt;deleted&gt; kicked.

The Soviets "got their &lt;deleted&gt; kicked" because the USA funneled about $800 million worth of weapons into Afghanistan via Pakistan during much of the 1980's. Without that the result likely would have been much different as the Soviets weren't so concerned with collateral damage.

In the same way non-existant WOMD were the excuse to get into Iraq and capture Iraq's oil.

True, no WMD stockpiles were found but the USA hasn't "captured" any oil, they pay billion$ for it each year. It used to be in the old days if you invaded and took over a country you got to take as much of their natural resources as you could for free. The list of peoples who made an art out of that include the English, French, Dutch, Belgians, Portuguese, Spanish, Russians, and others but not the Americans. Those fools seem to pay for most everything (The Louisiana Purchase from France, Alaska from Russia, oil from Iraq).

..... It used to be in the old days if you invaded and took over a country you got to take as much of their natural resources as you could for free. The list of peoples who made an art out of that include the English, French, Dutch, Belgians, Portuguese, Spanish, Russians, and others but not the Americans. Those fools seem to pay for most everything (The Louisiana Purchase from France, Alaska from Russia, oil from Iraq).

At $4.74/km² for oil and gold-rich Alaska, and $15 million for 828,800 square miles of Louisiana, I wouldn't call them fools.

If not getting ownership of Iraqi oil, they at least have some control over it.

..... It used to be in the old days if you invaded and took over a country you got to take as much of their natural resources as you could for free. The list of peoples who made an art out of that include the English, French, Dutch, Belgians, Portuguese, Spanish, Russians, and others but not the Americans. Those fools seem to pay for most everything (The Louisiana Purchase from France, Alaska from Russia, oil from Iraq).

At $4.74/km² for oil and gold-rich Alaska, and $15 million for 828,800 square miles of Louisiana, I wouldn't call them fools.

If not getting ownership of Iraqi oil, they at least have some control over it.

One of the first - if not the first - country to conclude a deal with the new Iraqi government was China.

I hope we don't have to wait 100-150 years for the Iraq War to start looking like a good deal as with TLP & "Seward's Folly" (Alaska).