Thai Man Arrest For Spying In Cambodia

[jayjayjayjay]

I wonder if his contact/handler was the 1st Secretary of the Royal Thai Embassy in Cambodia.

Would seem from the second quote from The Nation that you were spot-on!

To me it looks as if this Government is slowly losing their marbles over this spat, what will be the next daft caper of Abhisit and his bunch of clowns?

I reserve all move rights............ Deal with my agent.

[jayjayjayjay]

It seems that Some are distrusting anything said in the News (especially from The Nation)...unless it comes from the Red camp, then the allegations must be true. And the reporting spot on.

This is an 80% 10% 5% 5% forum.

80% PAD followers

10% Nation employees

5% sitting on the fencers

5% pro-Thaksin followers or defenders.

[h90]

It seems that Some are distrusting anything said in the News (especially from The Nation)...unless it comes from the Red camp, then the allegations must be true. And the reporting spot on.

This is an 80% 10% 5% 5% forum.

80% PAD followers

10% Nation employees

5% sitting on the fencers

5% pro-Thaksin followers or defenders.

You forgot the paid user of Thaksin from the Hongkong company.

[h90]

Ditto Cambodia

On other things clearly Hun Sen is seeking a massive overreaction by Thailand and before the APEC meet to utterly discredit the country. Hun Sen clearly isnt worried about Cambodia's international image. His international alliances arent with countries sensitive of such things whilke Thailand's are a lot closer to countries that do ghet sensitive to diplomatic faux pas. Clearly Abhisit will not want to overreact before the meet but will he be able to hold back others? After the meet if it goes that long I would expect Thailand to retaliate and maybe ferociously.

Cambodia does not need to worry about the international image. That is already so bad that you can't damage it anymore.

Hun Sen has his private army, in villages they tell clear that who don't vote for Hun Sen will die. Hun Sen is filling his pocket with corruption as good as possible (now he has an adviser for this as well).....

As it is all well known there is not much to damage on the international image.

[jayjayjayjay]

It seems that Some are distrusting anything said in the News (especially from The Nation)...unless it comes from the Red camp, then the allegations must be true. And the reporting spot on.

How can you trust The Nation without using your critical faculties? Just this morning they reported that the Cambodian Embassy was in Phnom Penh instead of Bangkok. Admittedly, on occasion, they have got a story straight. But, as with any news source, especially out of a censored country such as Thailand, the rule is READER BEWARE!

Ditto Cambodia

On other things clearly Hun Sen is seeking a massive overreaction by Thailand and before the APEC meet to utterly discredit the country. Hun Sen clearly isnt worried about Cambodia's international image. His international alliances arent with countries sensitive of such things whilke Thailand's are a lot closer to countries that do ghet sensitive to diplomatic faux pas. Clearly Abhisit will not want to overreact before the meet but will he be able to hold back others? After the meet if it goes that long I would expect Thailand to retaliate and maybe ferociously.

hammered........... what this whole process is revealing, is the absolute immaturity of the Democrats Government ability to lead the country. If you've got a nice house and good family. When going for milk down at the closest 7/11 a drunken thug challenges you to a fight. What are you going to do? Thailand has had it all. The fall of this perch didn't start with Thaksin, it started with the 2006 coup. Now we are down to Thailand really caring what Cambodia are doing! That's the sad fact. Abhisit should have shown leadership. At least Chuan was better in this respect. Abhisit should have kept his month shut at the Asean meeting and maintained silence......... If you lower yourself to fight it out with a street thug, you had been be one yourself. What a disappointing PM Abhisit is turning out to be.

[h90]

hammered........... what this whole process is revealing, is the absolute immaturity of the Democrats Government ability to lead the country. If you've got a nice house and good family. When going for milk down at the closest 7/11 a drunken thug challenges you to a fight. What are you going to do? Thailand has had it all. The fall of this perch didn't start with Thaksin, it started with the 2006 coup. Now we are down to Thailand really caring what Cambodia are doing! That's the sad fact. Abhisit should have shown leadership. At least Chuan was better in this respect. Abhisit should have kept his month shut at the Asean meeting and maintained silence......... If you lower yourself to fight it out with a street thug, you had been be one yourself. What a disappointing PM Abhisit is turning out to be.

I can't see any overreaction. Overreaction would have been to close the borders or show massive amount of Army at the border.

For me it looks like Hun Sen want a overreaction and makes uglier and uglier things to provoke them, while Abhisit keeps reasonable.

[hammered]

<deleted>, no use to steal a flight plan.

Flight plans must be published and all ATC's (Air Traffic Control) on route are informed.

There is no secret. You cannot conceal your flight and just cruise around.

Is this a fact? If it can be confirmed as factual it puts the allegation in a different light.

[IvanDobsky]

It seems that Some are distrusting anything said in the News (especially from The Nation)...unless it comes from the Red camp, then the allegations must be true. And the reporting spot on.

This is an 80% 10% 5% 5% forum.

80% PAD followers

10% Nation employees

5% sitting on the fencers

5% pro-Thaksin followers or defenders.

80% PAD?? quite an incredible claim and spoken like a true red

Everything in the news should be taken with a pinch of salt and cross-referenced with another source. The Nation seems to be fairly accurate with quotes though. The whole story stinks of PR spin with even a Thai MP defending Cambodia before the full facts have come to light.

[DP25]

It seems that Some are distrusting anything said in the News (especially from The Nation)...unless it comes from the Red camp, then the allegations must be true. And the reporting spot on.

This is an 80% 10% 5% 5% forum.

80% PAD followers

10% Nation employees

5% sitting on the fencers

5% pro-Thaksin followers or defenders.

Possible, if you're counting the endless red sock puppets all from their base user.

[Scott]

"<deleted>, no use to steal a flight plan.

Flight plans must be published and all ATC's (Air Traffic Control) on route are informed.

There is no secret. You cannot conceal your flight and just cruise around."

So then we can all have access to Obama's flight plan to Singapore?

[TAWP]

It seems that Some are distrusting anything said in the News (especially from The Nation)...unless it comes from the Red camp, then the allegations must be true. And the reporting spot on.

This is an 80% 10% 5% 5% forum.

80% PAD followers

10% Nation employees

5% sitting on the fencers

5% pro-Thaksin followers or defenders.

Atleast we know that 100% of the 'facts' you post here is false or skewed.

[webfact]

SPYING CHARGE

Samart Corps executive in Phnom Penh to help Thai engineer

An executive of Samart Corps is already in Phnom Penh to take care of its Thai engineer who was arrested for allegedly spying.

Samart Corps' President Watchai Vilailuck said Friday that Charoenrath Vilaluck, the company's chief executive officer, is assigned to help Siwalak Chothipong, an engineer of an engineer of Cambodia Air Traffic Services (Cats), who was arrested on Wednesday for "stealing" the flight information of ex-Thai PM Thaksin Shinawatra and Cambodia's PM Hun Sen.

Cats, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Samart Corps, has been operating air traffic services in Cambodia under a government concession.

Charoenrath flied to Phnom Penh on Thursday upon learning the arrest, Watchai said, adding Thai embassy in Phnom Penh had already been informed.

-- The Nation 2009/11/13

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[mca]

I'll tell you why some of the more critical posters from the red camp take the story written as gospel: since it sang to their quire.

Just pointing out some inconsistencies in some peoples approach here.

Both sides of the opinion divide are equally guilty of this TAWP.

[harrry]

"So then we can all have access to Obama's flight plan to Singapore?

Well you can for a private flight but military flights which the one of Obama woujld be considered are handled as military and not all details are included. Private flights which thisone was should be available.

[awd]

Flight plans on private flights are generally not published. The Warren Buffet's and Angelina Jolie's of the world don't usually telegraph their arrivals.

[TAWP]

I'll tell you why some of the more critical posters from the red camp take the story written as gospel: since it sang to their quire.

Just pointing out some inconsistencies in some peoples approach here.

Both sides of the opinion divide are equally guilty of this TAWP.

But there is one side that is yelling louder on how the local papers cannot be trusted...

[FarangRed]

Are Cambodian people considered a threat to national security if they are out after 9pm? own a motor bike? and a mobile phone?

[dumball]

How can you trust The Nation without using your critical faculties? Just this morning they reported that the Cambodian Embassy was in Phnom Penh instead of Bangkok. Admittedly, on occasion, they have got a story straight. But, as with any news source, especially out of a censored country such as Thailand, the rule is READER BEWARE!

I suppose to point was to(o) advanced for you guys.

Indeed, how can we trust them or any other publication right off the bat?

So why are so many posters doing it above?

I'll tell you why some of the more critical posters from the red camp take the story written as gospel: since it sang to their quire.

Just pointing out some inconsistencies in some peoples approach here.

Pray tell what singing to a roll of paper would achieve ?

[geriatrickid]

<deleted>, no use to steal a flight plan.

Flight plans must be published and all ATC's (Air Traffic Control) on route are informed.

There is no secret. You cannot conceal your flight and just cruise around.

When the CIA was moving accused terrorists around it used private passenger aircraft under innocuous company names. This was done to avoid "detection". When companies like Brinks or Securitas move assets on behalf of clients they do not publicize what they are doing. When government officials of Australia make special visits to Indonesia on private aircraft these fllghts are not made public. Etc. etc. etc.

The issue is whether or not the Thai national was gathering information on behalf of his government. What do you think would happen if I had a job at BKK airport and I gathered info on the non disclosed movements of notable Thai politicians and forwarded them to my national government? I think I'd be in serious trouble.

The first rule of these activities is to not get caught. If caught in the act, the second rule is to deny. The third rule is to distract.

Governments undertake these activities regularly. Getting caught is a risk of the the business as they say. Thailand may be on the learning curve for these activities and cannot be expected to be as good as the Chinese who use business people and students to actively spy on western countries. In the west if a source gets caught, the handler can get sacked or reprimanded. Wonder what will happen to the Thai handlers here? A promotion, perhaps.

[Yoshitaka]

"Hun Sen has his private army, in villages they tell clear that who don't vote for Hun Sen will die."

Please sent the prove to ASTV. We are waiting.

[Tony121]

Can't trust the nation newspaper because it said the Cambodian embassy is in phonm phen this is obvious mistake, how many of you who bring this up can read and write thai ?

[hammered]

<deleted>, no use to steal a flight plan.

Flight plans must be published and all ATC's (Air Traffic Control) on route are informed.

There is no secret. You cannot conceal your flight and just cruise around.

When the CIA was moving accused terrorists around it used private passenger aircraft under innocuous company names. This was done to avoid "detection". When companies like Brinks or Securitas move assets on behalf of clients they do not publicize what they are doing. When government officials of Australia make special visits to Indonesia on private aircraft these fllghts are not made public. Etc. etc. etc.

The issue is whether or not the Thai national was gathering information on behalf of his government. What do you think would happen if I had a job at BKK airport and I gathered info on the non disclosed movements of notable Thai politicians and forwarded them to my national government? I think I'd be in serious trouble.

The first rule of these activities is to not get caught. If caught in the act, the second rule is to deny. The third rule is to distract.

Governments undertake these activities regularly. Getting caught is a risk of the the business as they say. Thailand may be on the learning curve for these activities and cannot be expected to be as good as the Chinese who use business people and students to actively spy on western countries. In the west if a source gets caught, the handler can get sacked or reprimanded. Wonder what will happen to the Thai handlers here? A promotion, perhaps.

You are assuming it is a real case which of course it may be. However, in times of conflict and other times too intelligence agencies of countries are not exactly averse to creating false situations to advantage their side. One recent example may well be the Israeli weapon find a on a ship that has been complelty dropped by the media and questioned heavily by those in the know on the conductinmg of searches. However, it achieved a very short term PR advantage for Israel. This kind of thing is also part of the game. At the center of this is one engineer. He may be guilty as charged, completly innocent or possibly guilty of niavely passing something on without any real intent to cause problems a bit like some of the rumour cases.

Jumping to conclusions based on what one side says is probably not a good idea.

[Yoshitaka]

This is clear that this poor child is a scapegoat victim.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Yoshitaka

[hammered]

This is clear that this poor child is a scapegoat victim.

Unfortunately you may well be right.

It also seems that air traffic controllers would have known the flight plan too. That raises the question of did Thaksin fly over Thailand and if he did why didnt the government do anything about considering they now say they want him back. I guess they may have been informed of the flight plan and aircraft but not the passenger manifesto. Then again it should have been easy enough to work out.

[webfact]

Diplomessy

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Phnom Penh

Published on November 14, 2009

Diplomessy

Cambodian police yesterday charged a Thai national with spying on fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra, worsening the already tense diplomatic relations between the two countries.

Siwarak Chothipong, 31, who has been working for the Cambodia Air Traffic Service (CATS) for more than seven years, was arrested and charged on Thursday with supplying details of Thaksin's flight schedule to the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodian officials said.

The information was allegedly sent via e-mail to Kamrob Palawatwichai, the first secretary of the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, a Cambodian source said. Cambodia ordered Kamrob's expulsion on Thursday.

Cambodian national police spokesman Kirt Chantharith told Agence-France Presse that authorities were investigating whether more people were involved.

The news agency also quoted Cambodian deputy national police chief Sok Phal as saying the spy allegations had prompted Phnom Penh to expel the Thai Embassy's first secretary on Thursday. The Thai Foreign Ministry retaliated hours later.

Thai officials said Siwarak could be jailed for more than 10 years if convicted on the charges of spying. As of yesterday, he was being held at the Prey Sor prison, about 17 kilometres outside Phonm Penh, where he awaits trial.

Neither officials from the embassy nor his family members have met him.

Speaking to reporters as he boarded a plane for Singapore with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to attend the Apec Summit, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya rejected the spying accusation as "malicious and false".

"Thaksin feels he must destroy Thailand and collaborate with Hun Sen," he said.

Thaksin, convicted by a Thai court on corruption charges, arrived in Cambodia on Tuesday to take up the role of economic adviser to Hun Sen.

Thailand responded by downgrading its diplomatic relations with Cambodia and recalling its ambassador to Phnom Penh. Cambodia reciprocated the moves the following day.

In Bangkok, pro-Thaksin politicians yesterday fingered the government in the spying case.

Noppadon Patama, a legal adviser to the ex-leader, said that he suspected certain government figures were behind the arrested man's acquisition of the flight schedule in question.

He said that it was suspicious why an engineer wanted a flight schedule, which was not related to his work. He called on the Thai government to investigate and clarify the issue.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai Party MP Jatuporn Promphan accused the government of interference with Cambodia's domestic affairs and a "severe

diplomatic gaffe" for allegedly seeking the flight schedule of Thaksin's private jet.

"This was a severe breach of diplomatic protocol, as Thaksin's jet is a private one. The Thai government interfered in the domestic affairs of Cambodia by seeking the flight schedule," Jatuporn said.

Watchai Vilailuck, president of the Thai telecom firm Samart, which owns 100 per cent of CATS, yesterday said the company had already coordinated with the Foreign Ministry to look into the matter after learning about the case on Thursday. Samart chief executive Charoenrath Vilailuck had flown to Cambodia to look into the matter.

He added that the case had nothing to do with the company as it had never been involved in the politics. There are only a few Thai executives working at CATS, while most employees are local people.

Watchai said that the flight schedule was general flight information and did not mention passengers' names. But as now the relations of the two countries were tense, it had become a sensitive issue. He added that CATS was continuing to operate as usual.

CATS won a 37-year concession from the Cambodian government to provide the air-traffic control service there.

Samart executive vice president Pairote Varophas said CATS had complied with all standard practice in terms of information and security. When asked if this would affect the company's image, Pairote said that it was hard to say but he did not think it would affect the CATS concession.

Bilateral ties plunged even further when the Hun Sen administration rejected Bangkok's formal extradition request for Thaksin before even considering it.

The spy row broke out as Hun Sen and Thaksin played a friendly game of golf at the luxury Angkor Golf Resort in Siem Reap, where Thaksin met about 50 MPs from the Pheu Thai Party.

Thailand has put all talks and bilateral assistance, including the Bt1.4-billion loan for a road project, on hold and has torn up a memorandum of understanding signed in 2001 by the Thaksin administration that called for joint exploration on overlapping territories in the Gulf of Thailand.

Foreign diplomats said they were concerned that the row would mar the Apec summit in Singapore, where Asean leaders, under the chairmanship of Abhisit, will hold a separate summit with US President Barack Obama.

-- The Nation 2009/11/14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[MILT]

We decided to charge this Thai citizen and his subordinates of doing things which affected the public security of the country

Well at least the Cambodians are charging non-Cambodians. Here in LOS they charge their own people under the all encompassing "national security"

It's getting like a watered down version of North Korea.

Not even close, not even in the same ball park.

[timekeeper]

Diplomessy

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation

Phnom Penh

Published on November 14, 2009

Diplomessy

Cambodian police yesterday charged a Thai national with spying on fugitive Thaksin Shinawatra, worsening the already tense diplomatic relations between the two countries.

Siwarak Chothipong, 31, who has been working for the Cambodia Air Traffic Service (CATS) for more than seven years, was arrested and charged on Thursday with supplying details of Thaksin's flight schedule to the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, Cambodian officials said.

The information was allegedly sent via e-mail to Kamrob Palawatwichai, the first secretary of the Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, a Cambodian source said. Cambodia ordered Kamrob's expulsion on Thursday.

Cambodian national police spokesman Kirt Chantharith told Agence-France Presse that authorities were investigating whether more people were involved.

The news agency also quoted Cambodian deputy national police chief Sok Phal as saying the spy allegations had prompted Phnom Penh to expel the Thai Embassy's first secretary on Thursday. The Thai Foreign Ministry retaliated hours later.

Thai officials said Siwarak could be jailed for more than 10 years if convicted on the charges of spying. As of yesterday, he was being held at the Prey Sor prison, about 17 kilometres outside Phonm Penh, where he awaits trial.

Neither officials from the embassy nor his family members have met him.

Speaking to reporters as he boarded a plane for Singapore with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to attend the Apec Summit, Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya rejected the spying accusation as "malicious and false".

"Thaksin feels he must destroy Thailand and collaborate with Hun Sen," he said.

Thaksin, convicted by a Thai court on corruption charges, arrived in Cambodia on Tuesday to take up the role of economic adviser to Hun Sen.

Thailand responded by downgrading its diplomatic relations with Cambodia and recalling its ambassador to Phnom Penh. Cambodia reciprocated the moves the following day.

In Bangkok, pro-Thaksin politicians yesterday fingered the government in the spying case.

Noppadon Patama, a legal adviser to the ex-leader, said that he suspected certain government figures were behind the arrested man's acquisition of the flight schedule in question.

He said that it was suspicious why an engineer wanted a flight schedule, which was not related to his work. He called on the Thai government to investigate and clarify the issue.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai Party MP Jatuporn Promphan accused the government of interference with Cambodia's domestic affairs and a "severe

diplomatic gaffe" for allegedly seeking the flight schedule of Thaksin's private jet.

"This was a severe breach of diplomatic protocol, as Thaksin's jet is a private one. The Thai government interfered in the domestic affairs of Cambodia by seeking the flight schedule," Jatuporn said.

Watchai Vilailuck, president of the Thai telecom firm Samart, which owns 100 per cent of CATS, yesterday said the company had already coordinated with the Foreign Ministry to look into the matter after learning about the case on Thursday. Samart chief executive Charoenrath Vilailuck had flown to Cambodia to look into the matter.

He added that the case had nothing to do with the company as it had never been involved in the politics. There are only a few Thai executives working at CATS, while most employees are local people.

Watchai said that the flight schedule was general flight information and did not mention passengers' names. But as now the relations of the two countries were tense, it had become a sensitive issue. He added that CATS was continuing to operate as usual.

CATS won a 37-year concession from the Cambodian government to provide the air-traffic control service there.

Samart executive vice president Pairote Varophas said CATS had complied with all standard practice in terms of information and security. When asked if this would affect the company's image, Pairote said that it was hard to say but he did not think it would affect the CATS concession.

Bilateral ties plunged even further when the Hun Sen administration rejected Bangkok's formal extradition request for Thaksin before even considering it.

The spy row broke out as Hun Sen and Thaksin played a friendly game of golf at the luxury Angkor Golf Resort in Siem Reap, where Thaksin met about 50 MPs from the Pheu Thai Party.

Thailand has put all talks and bilateral assistance, including the Bt1.4-billion loan for a road project, on hold and has torn up a memorandum of understanding signed in 2001 by the Thaksin administration that called for joint exploration on overlapping territories in the Gulf of Thailand.

Foreign diplomats said they were concerned that the row would mar the Apec summit in Singapore, where Asean leaders, under the chairmanship of Abhisit, will hold a separate summit with US President Barack Obama.

-- The Nation 2009/11/14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

the Thai government should have let him fly over Thailand then forced down the jet with fighters and arrested Thaksin on landing

[saag]

Thai officials said Siwarak could be jailed for more than 10 years if convicted on the charges of spying.

As of yesterday, he was being held at the Prey Sor prison

I hope he survives to even get to get to the trial stage.

The Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) has learned that a young man named Yan Sok Kea died on 28 April 2008 due to lack of medical treatment while in pre-trial detention in Prey Sor Prison on the outskirts of Phnom Penh. He was detained on 14 November 2007, fell ill while in detention, and was taken to a hospital on 12 April 2008 where he was not given any medical treatment.

There are a lot of other situations, available with a simple search, reported on the use of this prison such as:

Labor Rights Now called on the government of the Kingdom of Cambodia to drop all charges against Rong Chhun, president of the Cambodia Independent Teachers' Association. He was detained in Prey Sor Prison on charges he defamed Cambodia's Prime Minister, Hun Sen, in alleged violations of articles 60 and 63 of the penal code, which can carry prison terms of as long as five years.

On December 31, 2005, Mr. Kem Sokha, and Mr. Yeng Virak, members of the organising committee for celebrations of the International Human Rights Day (December 10), were arrested and charged with “defamation”. This charge was based on the display of Cambodian Centre for Human Rights banners criticising Prime Minister Hun Sen’s policies. The two men were held in provisional detention in the Prey Sor prison, near Phnom Penh.

[h90]

the Thai government should have let him fly over Thailand then forced down the jet with fighters and arrested Thaksin on landing

that was also my idea.

[saag]

the Thai government should have let him fly over Thailand then forced down the jet with fighters and arrested Thaksin on landing

that was also my idea.

According to the other English-language paper, when Thaksin flew to Cambodia last Tuesday, his flight path over Thailand was rejected by the Royal Thai Air Force which forced his jet to fly all the way around the country and thus avoid Thailand's airspace. We can presume the same would apply for his return flight.