The topic title is, in fact, the last sentence of a very interesting article in The Huffington Post by:

Elizabeth Warren is the Leo Gottlieb Professor of Law at Harvard and is currently the Chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel.

AMERICA WITHOUT A MIDDLE CLASS

Can you imagine an America without a strong middle class? If you can, would it still be America as we know it?

Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just plain out of work. One in nine families can't make the minimum payment on their credit cards. One in eight mortgages is in default or foreclosure. One in eight Americans is on food stamps. More than 120,000 families are filing for bankruptcy every month. The economic crisis has wiped more than $5 trillion from pensions and savings, has left family balance sheets upside down, and threatens to put ten million homeowners out on the street.

Families have survived the ups and downs of economic booms and busts for a long time, but the fall-behind during the busts has gotten worse while the surge-ahead during the booms has stalled out. In the boom of the 1960s, for example, median family income jumped by 33% (adjusted for inflation). But the boom of the 2000s resulted in an almost-imperceptible 1.6% increase for the typical family. While Wall Street executives and others who owned lots of stock celebrated how good the recovery was for them, middle class families were left empty-handed.

The crisis facing the middle class started more than a generation ago. Even as productivity rose, the wages of the average fully-employed male have been flat since the 1970s.

Continues here and important to read:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-wa...e_b_377829.html

Any comments ?

LaoPo

Successive US governments have conned middle America that any sort of government assistance is "Socialism".

It's time to realise that it's getting something back for your taxes, other than wealthy politicians.

Looks a bit "Outside the Box" to me.......

Looks a bit "Outside the Box" to me.......

I was unsure where to post it so if the Mods want to move it, it's fine.

LaoPo

moved

Wasn't a problem, we'll soon Bedlamise it.

Wasn't a problem, we'll soon Bedlamise it.

It's amazing that such an important article doesn't attract the intelligent (American) posters of Thaivisa.

Elizabeth Warren's article in The Huffington posts received a STAGGERING 4,690 comments in just one day

It's quiet in Outside the Box.

Maybe better close the door ?

LaoPo

It's picked up in the last couple of weeks, Harcourt, Neddy and a couple of others have been contributing regularly. We've even got PeaceBlondie calling in now.

The US has always waved the "anti-American" flag at anyone who disagrees with the status quo. Read Steinbeck's Great Depression books and see how the small farmer class was decimated and anyone who refused to work for peanuts was branded a Communist and a traitor.

I saw a movie that touched on this the other day, "Bound for Glory" about Woody Guthrie.

I tried to get a usable picture of his guitar for a long time to use for an avatar.

"This machine kills Fascists"

That is so cool.

Successive US governments have conned middle America that any sort of government assistance is "Socialism".

It's time to realise that it's getting something back for your taxes, other than wealthy politicians.

Those benefiting the most from the "Socialism" aren't paying taxes. The bottom 50% of tax returns account for only 4% of tax revenue. That comes out to about 60 million not paying into the sytem. You can download the raw data from www.irs.gov if you want to check for yourself.

Maybe the content of the article wasn't meant for you sceadugenga.

LaoPo

Successive US governments have conned middle America that any sort of government assistance is "Socialism".

It's time to realise that it's getting something back for your taxes, other than wealthy politicians.

Those benefiting the most from the "Socialism" aren't paying taxes. The bottom 50% of tax returns account for only 4% of tax revenue. That comes out to about 60 million not paying into the sytem. You can download the raw data from www.irs.gov if you want to check for yourself.

Ah ah ah... your changing the subject, we're talking about how the middle classes are getting nothing back for their taxes and the rich are getting the benefits of the "recovery".

I'm surprised to hear that there are people paying no tax at all, most countries screw the poor with stuff like sales tax and GST type stuff.

The Earned Income Credit has given the working poor a cash dividend since 1974. It caused most working poor to pay only FICA (SS) and state and local sales taxes (which are not regressive in Texas ).

The middle class suffered catastrophe in recent years. Their considerable savings (despite the myth of a negative savings rate) consists of residential real estate and equities, both of which failed.

The professionals are postponing retirement by 5 to 10 years.

I will say that of the over 30 million now unemployed in the USA

you will not find many x-bankers/brokers & if you do they will be living fine off giant golden parachutes.

America without a strong middle class is likely if not already a given.

This past year has been propbably the greatest transfer of wealth/looting in US history.

Folks that thought it was a fair game have been taxed to death this year.

Everytime they kicked the currency printing into hyperdrive they stole money from folks savings. That was the tax

When they double the monetary supply you do not get 2 nickels for your dime.

It is not over but if it were to start a civil war I would not be surprised in the least.

Let me put some facts from the article by Elizabeth Warren* (quite a respectable Lady I might add)

* Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just plain out of work.

* One in nine families can't make the minimum payment on their credit cards.

* One in eight mortgages is in default or foreclosure.

* One in eight Americans is on food stamps.

* More than 120,000 families are filing for bankruptcy every month.

* The economic crisis has wiped more than $5 trillion from pensions and savings...

* ...and threatens to put ten million homeowners out on the street.

Images from the article:

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren Elizabeth Warren

LaoPo

Let me put some facts from the article by Elizabeth Warren* (quite a respectable Lady I might add)

* Today, one in five Americans is unemployed, underemployed or just plain out of work.

The truth is that number is much higher.

It is almost laughable how they get their numbers by polling 60k families.

http://web.streetauthority.com/terms/u/unemployment-rate.asp

I will say one thing is the system is beautifully broken right now. The current admin is one of the best

propaganda machines I have ever seen bar none. The prez speech today a clear example.

Do not think for an instant that it is all just a magic coincidence that this number

+ Bernanke's confirmation hearing+ the dollars magic jump today + the story of BOA paying back TARP all hit today

by chance.

Back to unemployment......

This video would be even funnier if it were not 100% true

I'm not a financial analyst so I do not have an opinion. I AM interested though, having concern for decent Americans trying to live an honest life, and also I wonder (without many answers, of course) the implications for the rest of the world.

America is going bankrupt, and if the country collapses, will the effects dominoe to Australia and NZ? Perhaps not. The UK? Maybe. Thailand? Probably not.

I somehow think that the Euro will survive.

China, of course will become quite dominant.

Will America's decline be hastened by catastrophic weather events like a couple of mega-Katrinas in a row? Seismic events?

With America humbled by an empty bank account, will China start looking aggressively at SE Asia as a food and water source? I think it's possible.

Will Indonesia consider Australia's resources as tempting? Without American support, could Australia defy an Indonesian assault? I think not.

So many dominoes to ponder.

Successive US governments have conned middle America that any sort of government assistance is "Socialism".

It's time to realise that it's getting something back for your taxes, other than wealthy politicians.

Those benefiting the most from the "Socialism" aren't paying taxes. The bottom 50% of tax returns account for only 4% of tax revenue. That comes out to about 60 million not paying into the sytem. You can download the raw data from www.irs.gov if you want to check for yourself.

Ah ah ah... your changing the subject, we're talking about how the middle classes are getting nothing back for their taxes and the rich are getting the benefits of the "recovery".

I'm surprised to hear that there are people paying no tax at all, most countries screw the poor with stuff like sales tax and GST type stuff.

Changing the subject? I'm replying to what YOU wrote. Now that we have established that you are responsible for changing the subject in the first place, let me get back on it...

I was having a talk with one of my bosses yesterday. I don't have a large salary but I've always looked at that as a form of job security. Anyway, I was telling him that my "being poor" has some advantages such as I don't lose a penny when the stock market drops because I don't own stock. He has lost a lot over the past year. My 401k wasn't hurt like most other people's because I don't have one. His took a big hit. I don't own a home and don't have a mortgage so unlike my boss, my house isn't suddenly worth $100,000 less than it was just a few months ago. I'm not sure but I'd say he's middle class - although if I had his money (what's left of it) I'd feel rich. When you say "the rich are getting the benefits of the "recovery"" what benefits exactly are you talking about? The few companies that recieved a bailout? Who do you consider rich? Everyone earning over $250,000? Isn't that the threshold that the current American administration calls rich?

I'm not a financial analyst so I do not have an opinion. I AM interested though, having concern for decent Americans trying to live an honest life, and also I wonder (without many answers, of course) the implications for the rest of the world.

America is going bankrupt, and if the country collapses, will the effects dominoe to Australia and NZ? Perhaps not. The UK? Maybe. Thailand? Probably not.

With America humbled by an empty bank account, will China start looking aggressively at SE Asia as a food and water source? I think it's possible.

Harcourt if you have a half an hour to spare this is well worth the time

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/12/...Paul%20RTX.aspx

In it around the 15 minute mark you will hear RP describe what your asking.

In essence yes the US is going bankrupt but unlike a individual a country such as the US does not go bankrupt in the same way.

The US after all can just create money out of paper so their bankruptcy is not them throwing up their hands & saying sorry we are broke. Instead they will print what they owe & hand it over. But what have the creditors received?

Basically we cannot pay this debt we have now ...No Way

So we liquidate/default we print & pay/liquidate/default...but with what? Devalued dollars thats what

The sad part is those that lived their lives by what they were always told were the rules are the biggest losers.

Those that lived within their means & saved now see their savings are worth a fraction of what it was in actual buying power.

This is the inherit problem of Fiat Currency.

As for China they are in a bit of a spot...stuck ... in a sense because they hold something crazy like close to a trillion in USD

They have been spending it as fast as they can but that will only nick it.

Yes as you say they will look elsewhere to invest & I have read that they have bought much this year in the way of land & mining companies outside of China. But they are in a spot because if they stop buying the treasuries like they have been & the dollar tumbles too fast what will happen to the purchasing power of all that fiat they hold?

I am no expert but it is an interesting time in which we live right now. One cannot help but watch...Like a bad accident..You hate to see it but it is compelling too.

As for whether or not the world will feel it as you asked..... Many say it is no longer so that when the US sneezes the whole world catches a cold but.... The fact that the USD is a major reserve currency & the price of oil is pegged to it....I would think that alone cannot help but have an effect

I'm not a financial analyst so I do not have an opinion. I AM interested though, having concern for decent Americans trying to live an honest life, and also I wonder (without many answers, of course) the implications for the rest of the world.

America is going bankrupt, and if the country collapses, will the effects dominoe to Australia and NZ? Perhaps not. The UK? Maybe. Thailand? Probably not.

I somehow think that the Euro will survive.

China, of course will become quite dominant.

Will America's decline be hastened by catastrophic weather events like a couple of mega-Katrinas in a row? Seismic events?

With America humbled by an empty bank account, will China start looking aggressively at SE Asia as a food and water source? I think it's possible.

Will Indonesia consider Australia's resources as tempting? Without American support, could Australia defy an Indonesian assault? I think not.

So many dominoes to ponder.

You almost make it sound like America is more than just an overly agressive, imperialistic, evil force perpetrating injustice throughout the world.

Successive US governments have conned middle America that any sort of government assistance is "Socialism".

It's time to realise that it's getting something back for your taxes, other than wealthy politicians.

Those benefiting the most from the "Socialism" aren't paying taxes. The bottom 50% of tax returns account for only 4% of tax revenue. That comes out to about 60 million not paying into the sytem. You can download the raw data from www.irs.gov if you want to check for yourself.

Ah ah ah... your changing the subject, we're talking about how the middle classes are getting nothing back for their taxes and the rich are getting the benefits of the "recovery".

I'm surprised to hear that there are people paying no tax at all, most countries screw the poor with stuff like sales tax and GST type stuff.

It is a fallacy to think all citizens of the USA are not taxed.

Every time they crank up the fiat printing press we are all taxed.

When the dollar loses value through printing you get less for it.

That is a tax

If you had 10k in the bank & they double the monetary base you now have 5k

Sure it still looks like 10k....till you go to spend it.

I'm not a financial analyst so I do not have an opinion. I AM interested though, having concern for decent Americans trying to live an honest life, and also I wonder (without many answers, of course) the implications for the rest of the world.

America is going bankrupt, and if the country collapses, will the effects dominoe to Australia and NZ? Perhaps not. The UK? Maybe. Thailand? Probably not.

I somehow think that the Euro will survive.

China, of course will become quite dominant.

Will America's decline be hastened by catastrophic weather events like a couple of mega-Katrinas in a row? Seismic events?

With America humbled by an empty bank account, will China start looking aggressively at SE Asia as a food and water source? I think it's possible.

Will Indonesia consider Australia's resources as tempting? Without American support, could Australia defy an Indonesian assault? I think not.

So many dominoes to ponder.

You almost make it sound like America is more than just an overly agressive, imperialistic, evil force perpetrating injustice throughout the world.

Of course America is more than just that!

Duh.

I'm not a financial analyst so I do not have an opinion. I AM interested though, having concern for decent Americans trying to live an honest life, and also I wonder (without many answers, of course) the implications for the rest of the world.

America is going bankrupt, and if the country collapses, will the effects dominoe to Australia and NZ? Perhaps not. The UK? Maybe. Thailand? Probably not.

I somehow think that the Euro will survive.

China, of course will become quite dominant.

Will America's decline be hastened by catastrophic weather events like a couple of mega-Katrinas in a row? Seismic events?

With America humbled by an empty bank account, will China start looking aggressively at SE Asia as a food and water source? I think it's possible.

Will Indonesia consider Australia's resources as tempting? Without American support, could Australia defy an Indonesian assault? I think not.

So many dominoes to ponder.

You almost make it sound like America is more than just an overly agressive, imperialistic, evil force perpetrating injustice throughout the world.

Of course America is more than just that!

Duh.

I never would have guessed you thought that based on your other posts of late.

It is a fallacy to think all citizens of the USA are not taxed.

Every time they crank up the fiat printing press we are all taxed.

When the dollar loses value through printing you get less for it.

That is a tax

If you had 10k in the bank & they double the monetary base you now have 5k

Sure it still looks like 10k....till you go to spend it.

You may call that a tax if you want but that's not where the gov't gets the money for the budget. Now, the 60 million or so who don't pay INCOME tax still pay sales tax in the states that have it. So no one gets a total free ride.

It is a fallacy to think all citizens of the USA are not taxed.

Every time they crank up the fiat printing press we are all taxed.

When the dollar loses value through printing you get less for it.

That is a tax

If you had 10k in the bank & they double the monetary base you now have 5k

Sure it still looks like 10k....till you go to spend it.

You may call that a tax if you want but that's not where the gov't gets the money for the budget. Now, the 60 million or so who don't pay INCOME tax still pay sales tax in the states that have it. So no one gets a total free ride.

Actually....It is a direct tax

TAX

A fee charged ("levied") by a government on a product, income, or activity. If tax is levied directly on personal or corporate income, then it is a direct tax. If tax is levied on the price of a good or service, then it is called an indirect tax.

As for the US govt budget how long has it been a deficit? When the US govt borrows money from the FED they have to pay it back with interest. Because the FED is basically a private bank not US govt.

So like a mortgage the borrower is really never even scratching the principle till the end. But mainly paying interest.

Can you imagine what the interest on 12 trillion dollars is...daily?...or even by the minute? It will makes my head spin.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

When looked at that way do you still feel the US govt gets their money for the budget from taxes?

Our taxes go to pay the interest on the deficit & does not even cover that. The US govt is like a broke individual who is paying constantly on credit now because their income is so very far behind. Constant shortfall

So if the US govt were an individual what would you tell them?

Stop spending so much.........Occupation in other countries costs $$$

Shrink government....too much red tape costs $$$$

Increase your income.....That is a tough one eh?

Since the governments income depends on we the people working & supporting them.

Also other countries buying their debt/IOU's/Treasury Bills

Now they have done well to kill jobs..... they shot themselves in the foot.

Also by printing trillions they make other countries wonder about those T-bills

Kind of funny to think the US govt is like a big welfare recipient constantly relying on the income of others

both we the citizens thru taxes & other countries to buy their IOU's so they can continue to print more monopoly money.

So if the US govt were an individual what would you tell them?

Get a second job?

"...I never would have guessed you thought that based on your other posts of late..."

That's the problem with people that make assumptions and jump to conclusions.

"Get a second job? "

You are quite right, the country needs to diversify and create another souce of income...somewhat like Japan after WW11.

So if the US govt were an individual what would you tell them?

Get a second job?

Yes exactly or a 1st job since AFAIK.... they earn nothing really or...........

since they are really nothing more than a trust fund baby perhaps we the people ( the grantor's ) should limit their spending?

The Liberty Tree needs feeding again.

Regards.

There is a presentation on this on YT by Miss Warren. Just do a search for Warren middle class.

i understand that i am coming in late on this thread but i must say that one very impoetant fact is not being addressed and that is that the majority of the population in america is either in retirement or getting ready to retire. The fact is, without a new tax base most of the systems will fail which is why an aggressive immigration policy is well advised. Some may say: "what good is it to bring in new people if there are no jobs for them?" But the fact is there are always jobs for the well educated and the self employed and this is where Asians and Conservitives see eye to eye; dont expect the govt to do anything for you and just go do it yourself. This was demonstarted in La. after Katrina, a vietnamese community was back on it's feet and rebuilt where the local black folk were still living in boarded up properties, when the vietnamese were asked, how? they replied, we could never expect our govt to do anything for us, so we know if we want to make it better we must do it ourselves. Hmm this is a very conservative way of thinking, if you want to eat work. The US has always had a working form of welfare called the military infrastructure, all those tax dollars buying planes, ships, automobilest etc.. are keeping all those under educated high paid union workers on the pay roll, along with all the men and women who make up the armed forces and all the contract labor that keeps the military working. I dont know the percentage but it is safe to say that the military is the largest employer in the USA when all related jobs are taken into account. As for all the bkk and forclosures this does not mean that the people are broke. going bkk is a way to protect what you have and not go broke and i would bet that the spike is due to an increasein chapter 11 bk filings related to forclosures. The morgage business got so out of hand that they were loaning money to people with no jobs! these people are walking away from houses that they have no investment in. Dont get me wrong I am not saying that the economy is not bad in the USA but I am saying IMHO that the best thing the govt could do is get out of the way and let the strong survive, the weak will be taken care of, they always have been and the country will be stronger for it. Entitlements only make people weak!

The US has always had a working form of welfare called the military infrastructure, all those tax dollars buying planes, ships, automobilest etc.. are keeping all those under educated high paid union workers on the pay roll, along with all the men and women who make up the armed forces

Boy you got that right.... Did you know that quite a few years ago, The military had to dummy down all the ground troops weapons manuals to 10th grade high school comprehension levels? Maybe lower by now

That alone should put the fear into occupied countries.

Not that I think or agree that a war machine should be a countries source of income