Sceadugenga, did you use the term intelectual pygmy recently?

A bit generous I think.

At least learn how to use spellchecker if you're going to insult someone's intelligence.

Jews were in what is modern day Israel more than a millennium before the muslims. So who is the "invader"? Besides, blame the Brits for setting that one up - and with dividing Iraq while you're at it.

that's what i call uneducated argumental rubbish. Jews were of course several milleniae before Muslims in Palestine as Islam was founded much later than Judaism. the question is not which religion but which ethnic group lived first in this area and who were the invaders of the "promised land". didn't the "LORD" say "slaughter the Philistines and occupy the land"? who were the Philistines? none else then those which are called in arabic Falastini and in english Palestinians.

step down from your arrogant wobbly stool and study a little history instead of making utmost ridiculous comments!

OK, I took your friendly advice and checked up on it on Wikipedia (no, I didn't go in and edit it first - but someone else might have):

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_p...cestral_origins

Politicized lineages

Claims emanating from certain circles within Palestinian society and their supporters, proposing that Palestinians have direct ancestral connections to the ancient Canaanites, without an intermediate Israelite link, has been an issue of contention within the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In discussing the root of the controversy to the claim of Canaanite lineage, many renowned scholars have hypothesised on the nature of the controversy itself, although not deliberating on the veracity of the claims, as this is a question that shall ultimately be resolved by geneticists, not by scholars in their capacity as historians.

Historian Bernard Lewis explains that "the rewriting of the past is usually undertaken to achieve specific political aims...In bypassing the biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, the pre-Israelite inhabitants of Palestine, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews."^[76][85]

Some Palestinian scholars, like Zakariyya Muhammad, have criticized pro-Palestinian arguments based on Canaanite lineage, or what he calls "Canaanite ideology". He states that it is an "intellectual fad, divorced from the concerns of ordinary people."^[86] By assigning its pursuit to the desire to predate Jewish national claims, he describes Canaanism as a "losing ideology", whether or not it is factual, "when used to manage our conflict with the Zionist movement" since Canaanisma priori the central thesis of Zionism. Namely that we have been engaged in a perennial conflict with Zionism—and hence with the Jewish presence in Palestine—since the Kingdom of Solomon and before ... thus in one stroke Canaanism cancels the assumption that Zionism is a European movement, propelled by modern European contingencies..."^[86] "

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You can have this can of worms.

First of all, the silly schoolboy taunt of "my religion's better because it's over a century older" is ... well, just silly.

Before a Christian peace MAKER went to the West Bank, he pointed out that the Hebrews purchased the "Holy Land " twice, and only conquered it by force once (shalom means peace) in ancient times. Then their Jewish YHWH kicked them out and sent them into near-oblivion and captivity until a Gentile king let them go back. Then YHWH and Rome again kicked them out,in 70 CE. The Jews practiced near pacifism for 2,500 years, until the bloody Zionists armed themselves. The Arabs have a far better 'recent' claim to greater Palestine.

Back to the absurd dilemma - would we rather see Palestine or Israel possess the only nuclear warhead in the Middle East? I'd rather see Judy in the sky with diamonds, or a new Ferrari in my garage. Would you gentlemen prefer to be raped just before you're murdered, or after being murdered?

It's like dying in Tokyo when the Yanks used 'conventional' fire-bombing, or at Hiroshima by A-bombing. Could we have better choices, please? Thanks for reading.

...and PB provides yet another non-answer.

chuckd, stupid questions needn't be answered. Do you live in Thailand?

The Jews practiced near pacifism for 2,500 years, until the bloody Zionists armed themselves.

What changed? Why did they all of a sudden decide to arm themselves after 2,500 years?? It sounds like you might be leaving something out?

chuckd, stupid questions needn't be answered. Do you live in Thailand?

...but I can't resist not answering stupid posts. A failing of mine.

If you look immediately above my member number on one of my posts, you will get a clue as to where I live.

Based on your criteria, should I have even answered your question?

Zoroastrians are also considered People of the Book by the Iranian gov't since that was the religion in Iran before Islam.

Also Shia's are heavily oppressed in Sunni countries, so they are much more tolerant than Sunnis in general.

Having spent nearly 30 years in Iran and Saudi Arabia, I can assure you that "tolerance" of another religion is not a subject that is well received in either country.

Iran used to have some tolerance but, having been kicked out when Khomaini returned in 1979, I cannot speak for it today. I have heard the government and Mullahs still allow some Christian churches and Jewish synagogues to exist.

Saudi Arabia having tolerance is a no-go.

both correct. but as far as Iran is concerned "some" should be replaced with "all" churches and synagogues. i always found it strange that shia Iran recognises Jews and Christians as "People of the Book" whereas wahhabi sunni Saudi Arabia acknowledges that fact but is extremely intolerant.

What some of my friends in Iran have told me is the Mullahs did not close any existing churches or synagogues, but they are not permitting any new ones to spring up. As we all know, this can change with the wind.

The Zoroastrian Fire Temple outside Isfahan was considered a religous relic when I was last there. Interesting place, indeed.

Zoroastrians are also considered People of the Book by the Iranian gov't since that was the religion in Iran before Islam.

Not being argumentative but do you have any evidence for that? Zoroastrians worship the god Ahura Mazda and the religion is probably 1000 years older than Christianity.

Zoroastrians in Iran.

Zoroastrians in Iran as the oldest religious community of the nation have a long history and survive to the present-day.

Prior to the Islamization in Iran, Zoroastrianism had been the primary religion of the Iranian people. And since the fall of the Sassanid Zoroastrian empire by the Arab conquest of Persia, Zoroastrians in Iran have faced much religious discrimination including forced conversions, harassments, as well as being identified as najis and impure to some Muslims, making them unfit to live alongside Muslims therefore forcing them to evacuate from cities and face major sanctions in all senses (See Persecution of Zoroastrians), although technically, Zoroastrians are protected 'people of the book' in Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrians_in_Iran

I believe the Parsees of Mumbai were persecuted Persian Zoroastrians that ran away to India ages ago. They're the ones that leave their dead to the vultures (instead of burying or cremating) and are facing a huge problem now as the vulture population is dwindling. Bodies lie on the sky towers uneaten.

Christians in exodus from hostile home

RIMA, whose sister was murdered by Saddam Hussein's officers, is going to America. Hani, another Christian, is off to Sweden after surviving a kidnap by a Baghdad militia. Michael Marody, whose cousin was also abducted but did not come back alive, is heading for Australia.

War-torn, anarchic Iraq, however, is not the only place in the Middle East where fewer Christians will be celebrating this Christmas.

The region that was Christianity's birthplace is witnessing an unprecedented modern-day exodus - they are victims of radical Islam, the global economic crisis, and new currents of sectarian feeling from Arabs and Jews alike.

In Bethlehem, the lights are on for Christmas, but its resident Christians have dwindled from 80 per cent of the population in the post-war years to just 25 per cent today. The carpenters who hand-craft the wooden figurines that feature in nativity scenes worldwide are shutting up shop, hamstrung by the difficulties of working in the Palestinian West Bank.

''Every year we have obstacles,'' complained Elias Giacaman, a Bethlehem woodcarver who can trace his ancestry to the Crusades. Crates loaded with unsold figurines fill the floor of his workshop, which has cut its staff from 18 to six. ''After the intifada - and three or four years of curfews - there was the Lebanon war, the economic crisis and all the time we have the [security] wall.''

Such tales of misery are repeated both in neighbouring cities and neighbouring lands. In Jerusalem, some Orthodox Jews spit on passers-by wearing crucifixes. In the other Palestinian enclave of Gaza, Christian shops have been firebombed. In Egypt, meanwhile, a string of businesses owned by Coptic Christians was burned down in riots in the southern province of Qena last month. ''Copts are in a continuous state of fear,'' said Anba Kirillos, the diocesan bishop.

Pope Benedict touched on the insecurities of his Middle-Eastern flock during a tour of the region earlier this year. ''The Catholic community here is deeply touched by the difficulties and uncertainties which affect all the people of the Middle East,'' he remarked.

But while the Pontiff sought to avoid finger-pointing, Iraqi Christians like Mr Marody are less hesitant. ''We were driven out,'' he said bluntly. ''They bombed our churches. They killed us deliberately so we would leave. It was organised.''

The sweeping sectarian violence of Iraq is well documented, though the suffering of its once million-strong Christian community has been less prominently recorded. As many as 600,000 have fled since 2003, while hundreds of thousands more have moved to safer areas in the north, abandoning once thriving communities in Mosul, Baghdad and Basra.

Mr Marody's cousin in Baghdad was particularly vulnerable, as he owned a liquor store. It was a trade that Christians dominated during Saddam's secular rule, but which put them in the line of fire after the war, as the city became dominated by Islamist militias.

At first, he was seized from his car and a ransom was demanded. Later, when the family was unable to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars demanded, they were told to go to a roundabout in Sadr City, Baghdad's impoverished Shia suburb. There, they found his body - bearing gunshot wounds and cigarette burns.

Mr Marody, Rima and Hani are all members of the Chaldean Catholic Church, whose antiquity is reflected by its continued use of Aramaic, the ancient language of Christ.

There is little evidence of widespread Muslim resentment towards Iraq's Christians, who are far from the only victims of the country's post-war sectarian violence, which is estimated to have cost about 80,000 lives.

However, they have sometimes been targeted by al-Qaeda-backed extremist groups. Last week, bombers struck two churches in Mosul, killing a baby and wounding at least 40 people. In July, six simultaneous church bombings killed five people and injured scores more.

Christian officials have also been singled out. Last year, Paulos Faraj Rahho, the Chaldean Archbishop of Mosul, was kidnapped and killed.

Across the Middle East, a Christian population that stood at 20 per cent a century ago has now sunk to below 5 per cent. Yet the rise of radical Islam is not the only factor. In the occupied territories, Christians suffer alongside Muslims from Israeli policies, most recently the new ''security wall''.

Arab priests claim that Israel turns a blind eye to violence against Christians, hoping they will leave and make it easier to portray the conflict as one between Jews and Muslims.

That is denied, but incidents of harassment by extremist Orthodox Jews cannot be. Father Athanasius Macora, a Franciscan friar in Jerusalem's Old City, speaks of the latest trend: spitting attacks by young Orthodox on anyone seen wearing a crucifix. ''It has happened to me quite a number of times in the past six months, sometimes once a week,'' he said. ''It's very ugly, especially when it's kids of nine or 10 doing it.''

Christians in Gaza are an increasingly beleaguered community of a few thousand. Islamic radicals attacked, among other targets, a Christian bookstore, and killed its owner in 2007. Attacks are condemned by Hamas, the ruling power in Gaza, but little action is taken.

The political equation with Western policies is, perhaps, simplest in Egypt, where the Coptic Christians, 10 per cent of Egypt's total population by most estimates, is closely associated with America and Western backers of Hosni Mubarak, its authoritarian ruler of 28 years.

As Mr Mubarak keeps a tight lid on opponents in the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic organisations, Christians are an easy target for reprisals.

Sometimes, local disputes turn into conflict, as was the case in Qena last month, when Muslims attacked a Christian neighbourhood after accusing a local Copt of rape. But sometimes the violence is more directly religious: last year, Muslims rioted against a new church that was due to be consecrated in the Cairo suburb of Ain Shams. It remains closed - a serious blow in a country where to build a church requires special presidential permission and years of patience.

''I fear the extinction of Christianity in Iraq and the Middle East,'' said the Catholic Archbishop of Baghdad, Jean Benjamin Sleiman, at the time of the Pope's visit in May.

Father Remon Moussalli, Amman's resident Chaldean priest, says his flock is falling in number, with exiles moving on faster than they arrive.

''There's a satanic stance against the Christians, maybe not just in Iraq but in all the Middle East,'' he said. ''The Christians are like the peaceful Muslims, but there are no Christian militias to protect them.''

TELEGRAPH

At this stage in my advanced life, however, I can admit, not proudly by any means, that I once met a Democrat that seemed OK. I didn't get to know him well though.

:D :D

Zoroastrians are also considered People of the Book by the Iranian gov't since that was the religion in Iran before Islam.

Not being argumentative but do you have any evidence for that? Zoroastrians worship the god Ahura Mazda and the religion is probably 1000 years older than Christianity.

Article 13 of The Iranian Constitution is the source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

Zoroastrians are also considered People of the Book by the Iranian gov't since that was the religion in Iran before Islam.

Not being argumentative but do you have any evidence for that? Zoroastrians worship the god Ahura Mazda and the religion is probably 1000 years older than Christianity.

Article 13 of The Iranian Constitution is the source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran

Thanks for that.

chuckd, stupid questions needn't be answered. Do you live in Thailand?

...but I can't resist not answering stupid posts. A failing of mine.

If you look immediately above my member number on one of my posts, you will get a clue as to where I live.

Based on your criteria, should I have even answered your question?

:D