I've noticed that the missionaries make pretty hard going of it among the local Thais whereas the Akha tend to line up at the church door.

Now the Akha are the poorest ethnic group in Thailand and I can't help wondering if they think that nothing can be worse than what they already have so they'll take a chance. A tithe on no income is still nothing so the cost is minimal.

Now I don't want this to degenerate into an all in brawl on the pros and cons of missionaries, I'm still smarting from the last action (anyone remember Smilodon?) but what exactly can the Christians offer these days to someone who already has a laptop and a fridge and a happy relationship and all of the other twenty first century toys?

The most obvious answer is "not going to hel_l" but they can't even seem to agree on what hel_l is. Is it just an absence, or profusion, of mobile phones, depending on your attitude towards them, or do devils prod you with red hot pitchforks?

Maybe I wouldn't like heaven, it's sure to be full of people who want to tell me "I told you so".

I've put this in OTB as I want it maintained as a SERIOUS discussion.

"The God's Envy Us"............

"...they envy us because we're mortal. Everyday could be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we are doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again."

--Achilles.

That may apply to women but it's common knowledge that men get better looking with age.

That may apply to women but it's common knowledge that men get better looking with age.

:D

But are you not even more lovely now than you were at 20?

I was a mess at 20. I still had pimples at 30.

My position on this subject will be different from the missionary position, which I believe is quite common in Thailand.

But seriously...... your question assumes a belief in heaven, which I don't have.......but I think I can tackle it simply with the Hedonist attitude, which I think you are asking is an option: instead of worrying if one is sinning or not and thereby will one qualify for heaven, why not eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die?

One of the first problems I struck with Christianity was that so many churches could not agree with each other; They can't all be right if they purport contradictory philosophies, therefore, which one? If any.

If you want to really p!ss of a "true" Christian try suggesting that the Christian precepts can be successfully observed at home with out the benefit of church or clergy.

Back to the OP, what do you think "they" want heaven to be? Harp playing on clouds is a bit simplistic I think. What is the current religious theory on life after death?

But seriously...... your question assumes a belief in heaven, which I don't have.......but I think I can tackle it simply with the Hedonist attitude, which I think you are asking is an option: instead of worrying if one is sinning or not and thereby will one qualify for heaven, why not eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die?

Mr. Harcourt:

If you had thought out my question about the nukes this thoroughly, you would have hit upon the possibility of a sale of technology.

Concerning this subject matter...I do believe in a Heaven or hel_l.

However, I am not going to worry about it since PeaceBlondie has already relegated me to hel_l because I am not a pacifist. I m a "pussywhipped spineless coward". (and proud of it.)

I think PBs pastoral qualifications may be a little suspect.

However, as a legitimately ordained minister of The Church of Universal Life allow me to address your eternal life concerns my son.

PayPal or Western Union are both welcome here.

I think PBs pastoral qualifications may be a little suspect.

However, as a legitimately ordained minister of The Church of Universal Life allow me to address your eternal life concerns my son.

PayPal or Western Union are both welcome here.

Seriously?

The Church of Universal Life.... I've read about them. Did you buy an ordination or actually join that church?

Universal Life Church

Incredible!

This absolutely underlines why there is a need to seperate church and state, and why laws should not be made with respect to a religion.

I may include New Zealand in my Gospel Crusade tour next year so I'll need a good man on the collection plate if you're available.

Note the ULC does not discriminate against any religion, we accept donations from everyone.

I may include New Zealand in my Gospel Crusade tour next year so I'll need a good man on the collection plate if you're available.

Note the ULC does not discriminate against any religion, we accept donations from everyone.

You can count on me. What percentage do I get?

Can I bring my light sabre?

I don't have time now so I'll have to get back to this one...

I don't have time now so I'll have to get back to this one...

Uh oh... now we're for it.

A couple of things here, firstly, if it's a theological discussion, why the loaded question? What trouble? It's like those Humanist bus ads, 'There's probably no God so stop worrying and enjoy yourself'. Why should the existence of a God cause us to worry? My version would read 'There probably is a God so stop worrying and enjoy yourself'.

Secondly, why assume that 'life everlasting' involves heaven going? It's a very 'orthodox' belief. I believe that when I die I am dead. I will not go to heaven; I will remain dead until the Lord Jesus returns. Then I will be resurrected to life everlasting to be part of God's kingdom here on this earth with Jesus ruling over it.

That’s it in a nutshell, I have avoided adding any real detail, if anyone wants more detail I will happily contribute.

Just a quick edit, hel_l just refers to the grave. It's a simple study and most modern bibles will traslate the word as the grave. In fact the NIV has no references at all to hel_l in the OT.

So, we are all going to hel_l!

Well I'll ask for a "do not disturb" sign on mine then.

Don't worry, you wont be!

But what's at the other end of the line, after the "great gettin' up mawnin'"?

What a leap of faith to take a punt on something that's extremely poorly presented. At least with Buddhism we get a few more shots before the lights go out.

A miracle, one little public miracle is all it would take and we'd all be believers.

"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"

EXACTLY!!!

Yeah, it all seems a bit too ambiguous to me as well. I think that I'd want to know a bit more before going ahead.

Especially if you were getting dragged out of a nice warm grave for it.

Sorry I won't buy a ticket.

About the only Akha I know is a tuk-tuk driving Catholic with wife and kid. I understand Thai hill tribes were never fully accepted as Thai Buddhists. I doubt they joined an Akha church to get a free laptop.

Heaven is not accurately described by Dante or Milton, nor in the Bible.

About the only Akha I know is a tuk-tuk driving Catholic with wife and kid. I understand Thai hill tribes were never fully accepted as Thai Buddhists. I doubt they joined an Akha church to get a free laptop.

Heaven is not accurately described by Dante or Milton, nor in the Bible.

To be fair, if Heaven is not accurately described in the Bible, how can you say that Dante or Milton's versions are wrong? You need to know what something is before you can say what it is not.