Bangkok Vs. Singapore For 6 Months

[ivygirl]

My search function isn't working so I really hope I'm not asking a repetitive question. We are a US family (with two kids, 2 and 4) and think we can sell a 6 month ex-pat stint to the company my husband works for. They need to figure out the specifics of launching their international business -- whether (and where they should manufacture products in Asia), where they should put offices, salespeople, etc. The key is to be in a central location where you can not only travel within country, but also to their other targeted countries -- India, Bangladesh, China, possibly Africa as well (though that may be a separate project). Its a medium-sized US company and my husband is one of the senior guys.

I think the short list is Bangkok and Singapore. We've spent a fair amount of time in both, and understand they are VASTLY different cities. I tend to like Bangkok more since Singapore feels more like home (and don't get me started about how much I love the food and people in Thailand). But, either is fine by me. Q: for airport access and availability/cost of flights, ease of doing business, quality/cost of living (particularly since we have kids), and overall experience -- particularly given that it would only be 6 months -- which one would you choose? I imagine Singapore would be vastly "easier" which has more value since we're talking 6 months rather than 2 years, but do you think that would make up for the cost of living differential and other issues? I know I'm asking this on a Bangkok forum, but will post the same on a Singapore forum as well. Interested in any perspectives people are willing to share.

I've been surfing alot and also haven't found answers on some random cost issues -- international medical insurance, furnished vs. unfurnished homes/apts, general length of lease term (can you get a house in the suburbs for < 1 yr if we wanted to live there) and cost to lease a car for 6 months. Any thoughts on those or should I re-post elsewhere? Sorry I'm a newbie to navigating this site and it's driving my crazy I can't get the search function to work!

[CarlBkk]

I would say that Singapore might be easier and Bangkok more interesting and better value.

Singapore is more geared up for accepting foreign business with set procedures in place and a lot of good business contacts. However, it probably has more competitors close by if that matters (you don't say the line of business). For airport distance/cost I'd say they're both the same. For children I'd say Bangkok is more fun - there are some lovely free childrens activities both inside and outside, lots of art/music/gym classes and a population who adore children visibly. 6 month lease for house and car is no problem, if you really want a car for 6 months at all. A nice luxurious house in a great complex may be around 60,000 baht per month.

Expect family insurance to cost $800-$1000 per annum through AIA or Bupa (quotes online).

You may want to move your post to the Jobs/Business section here to get more response.

[ivygirl]

Thank you for the helpful reply. All that does seem right to me. When you search for 2500 sq. ft+ houses on-line, though, it seems like the prices I'm coming up with for a community (or building) with gym, pool, playgrounds, etc. in Bang Na or Bangpaki (places near airport) or the expat-ish areas closer in are 120,000-240,000. Are prices higher on-line b/c you have people like me surfing?

Thanks again.

[craigt3365]

Yes! It takes some leg work, but you will find much better deals once you get here. I just did the same thing for Pattaya. I am so glad I waited until I got here to make a final decision as the one I picked online was NOT a place I would have wanted to stay. Took me about 10 days of cruising around to finally get a place I liked...and that was from an agent who does not really advertise online...only in the local papers.

I would get a nice hotel for at least 2-3 weeks, then find a place after that. Hotels are NOT full right now. Plenty of room. Try http://www.latestays.com/. You can find some really good deals at some really nice hotels....

I found short term rentals are definitely harder to come by. Especially houses. They really want 6 months at least. I would think Bangkok is MUCH cheaper than Singapore. Try having dinner on Orchard Road some night...compare that with Bangkok...huge difference. But, Singapore is more organized, cleaner, less crazy traffic. When you get a place, make sure you take that into account. Traffic is horrible in BKK. I always get a place near the subway or skytrain...

[theseahorse]

Thank you for the helpful reply. All that does seem right to me. When you search for 2500 sq. ft+ houses on-line, though, it seems like the prices I'm coming up with for a community (or building) with gym, pool, playgrounds, etc. in Bang Na or Bangpaki (places near airport) or the expat-ish areas closer in are 120,000-240,000. Are prices higher on-line b/c you have people like me surfing?

Thanks again.

Sorry, can't help with comparing Bangkok to Singapore.

But, I'm not sure where you got these prices but they are very high for area you mentioned! In the city centre then they sound about right, but not in Bangna/ Bangkapi!

There are plenty of places in the Bangna/ Bangkapi area that would suit your needs but at a fraction of the prices you've seen. Bangna and Bangkapi are becoming more and more 'farang' friendly, partly due to the BTS opening up (eventually) and also as there's one of Bangkoks best international schools in Bangna. There is also a large mall (Central Bangna) that has a Fitness First and various baby groups such as Little gym and Gymboree for your kids, aswell as lots of farang friendly shops and restaurants.

Realistic prices in the area are-

40,000 Will get you a standard four bedroom house in an Moobaan (Village/ Housing estate) with security, with a small garden for your kids to play in.

50 -60,000 Will get you a large (US size) 4/5 bedroom house in a good enclosed Moobaan with a communial pool and kids play area.

75 - 100,000 Will get you a huge house with private pool and a large (by any cities standards) garden.

For my job I've been into alot of the different housing estates in the area and there are some amazing places, but I don't think I've ever seen anything that would go for 240,000 in this area!

If you want some names of estates PM.

[rfukata]

I worked as an ex-pat in both Bangkok and Singapore.

here are some experience of living I like to share

* my ex-pat 2 bedroom + 2 bathroom/parking condo was double the cost in Singapore vs Bangkok

* public transportation; Singapore has a much better public trans system over Bangkok; subway/train, city buses, long distance buses

honest taxis and the cost is reasonable.

* airport; Changi airport Singapore is much more efficient and better than Suvannabhumi

* reliability & efficiency of workforce; Singapore ranks higher than Thailand

* traffic; Singapore has traffic control hours (am/pm) which greatly prevents traffic buildups

* outside locale food; both Thai and Singapore has ample local food and very reasonable cost

* government efficiency; Singapore ranks much higher than Thailand

* language; Singaporeans speak English (Slinglish), almost everyone speaks and understands english is Singapore

* start up for company; I have to say Singapore will most likely be the choice although the cost may be significantly

higher but this comes with better security, better business environment, language, telecommunications, etc

* school for children: international schools are avail in both Singapore and Bangkok

* maid services; both Sing and BKK has maid services. Singapore maid services is somewhat regulated by the ministry.

In summary, Singapore will cost you more to live but the overall country infrastructure rates higher than of Thailand.

[trogers]

Bangkok is like a wet market, and Singapore is like a hospital. Which place would you like to live in for 6 months?

[NearestTheTee]

As the primary reason for coming to Asia, is for your husband to launch an international business then i would have to say Singapore is the best place in the region in terms of 'ease of doing business'.

The Singapore Govt. has some good tax breaks in place for new business start ups and overall it's a very efficient place to run a regional business from.

Sure, Thailand is a more fun place to live but there is enough in Singapore to keep a family occupied for 6 months and you can always take a short/cheap flight up to BKK for long weekends :-)

Good luck.

[ivygirl]

All really good points, thanks everyone. I like the wet market and hospital comment, think that's right on. Boy do I hate hospitals!

The work would be less actually setting up a business and more figuring out how and where to set it up, if that makes sense. After a few months they may decide to have their base of operations in India and regional offices in Singapore and Bangladesh. I think centrality is key since he'll be flying all over the place. And key for me is a fun experience for us and the kids and trips from our home base would be a big part of that. That being said, he will probably want to hire a few people in each of these countries. Does that modify anyone's perspective?

And I know Bangkok is super chaotic, is it much much less so out in the suburbs or is it still pretty crazy? I assume you'd still need a driver out there? I'm also assuming there are companies who will furnish a house for you -- do you think all those logistics of getting set up would be a huge pain? I don't want to spend 2/6 months dealing with nothing but hassles.

Thanks again folks.

[trogers]

The Singapore Govt. has some good tax breaks in place for new business start ups...

Tax breaks? The Singapore government has already collected upfront from you the moment you step into the country...

Price of land is determined by the government, and is the main factor to set rental rates, from hawker stalls to office space and homes, and hotel room rates.

Price of car ownership and tax on fuel governs price of transport - cost of taxis and private or rental cars. The government owns the public buses and mass transit and sets its own charges.

These two primary cost of capital lays the foundation to the high cost of living and doing business in Singapore. And the government provide you a good infra-structure and a long list of rules and regulations to live and work there.

Like I have asked, how is a 6-month stay in a hospital like? - price and environment wise.

[trogers]

All really good points, thanks everyone. I like the wet market and hospital comment, think that's right on. Boy do I hate hospitals!

The work would be less actually setting up a business and more figuring out how and where to set it up, if that makes sense. After a few months they may decide to have their base of operations in India and regional offices in Singapore and Bangladesh. I think centrality is key since he'll be flying all over the place. And key for me is a fun experience for us and the kids and trips from our home base would be a big part of that. That being said, he will probably want to hire a few people in each of these countries. Does that modify anyone's perspective?

And I know Bangkok is super chaotic, is it much much less so out in the suburbs or is it still pretty crazy? I assume you'd still need a driver out there? I'm also assuming there are companies who will furnish a house for you -- do you think all those logistics of getting set up would be a huge pain? I don't want to spend 2/6 months dealing with nothing but hassles.

Thanks again folks.

If the line of business does not depend on high brow corporate image or frequent visiting local clients, the office (or branch office) need not be in the CBD area. Bangna-trad km 3-6 have decent offices for rent and some pretty good housing estates and international schools. Close by are 2 large shopping centres and Novotel and Princess Dusit, both 4-star grade hotels.

Most important, it is only 20 mins drive to the airport.

[ivygirl]

That's good to know that Bang Na has some offices too. How long would you guestimate if takes to drive from there to the CBD if you have to go? And 20 minutes to the airport is awesome, we're 11 minutes here in the US which is virtually unheard of.

[trogers]

That's good to know that Bang Na has some offices too. How long would you guestimate if takes to drive from there to the CBD if you have to go? And 20 minutes to the airport is awesome, we're 11 minutes here in the US which is virtually unheard of.

Bangna-trad km 8 to CBD (Sathorn) or the reverse using the Expressway:

During peak hours 7.30am to 9am and 4.30pm to 6pm- 50mins to 60mins drive

Off peak hours - 25mins to 40 mins, depending on volume of heavy vehicles on the Expressway.

[trogers]

Is this AES Solar Energy?

[ivygirl]

Is this AES Solar Energy?

Nope. Do you work in solar?

[trogers]

Is this AES Solar Energy?

Nope. Do you work in solar?

No. But I heard they are also doing studies on establishing a presence in this region.

[trajan]

most companies have their regional offices in Singapore (or Hong Kong) with tentacles in major cities around the region....

if I had a family with small children, I would sacrifice and live in Singapore and put up with the costs--& hopefully have sufficient corporate subsidies--- (and fly around the region as needed), but if I were single (and/or had a flexible partner), my personal choice would be to live in Bangkok....[singlish also drives me up the wall]

I also like living in Asia...Singapore actually feels less Asian to me than San Francisco...

[trogers]

most companies have their regional offices in Singapore (or Hong Kong) with tentacles in major cities around the region....

if I had a family with small children, I would sacrifice and live in Singapore and put up with the costs--& hopefully have sufficient corporate subsidies--- (and fly around the region as needed), but if I were single (and/or had a flexible partner), my personal choice would be to live in Bangkok....[singlish also drives me up the wall]

I also like living in Asia...Singapore actually feels less Asian to me than San Francisco...

No lah...please! Singapore-rians very kiasu, but also cutie. We like banana people - yellow outside but see peh white inside leh!