I try to. But they keep picking up on anything I say and the brawl starts again.

Do you notice that it is only the right wing........bite my tongue!!!!

I wish there was a "bite my tongue" emoticon. It would be easier to use that than resist this grating urge to snipe at every opportunity.

It's a symptom of how deeply I feel about...... bite my tongue.

If only they wouldn't.....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And they always....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And....

Oh...nevermind.

Don't the bashers deserve a little credit?

Of course.

Although I do agree with Harcourt's initial response regarding maccaroni man's post, I do feel it was unnecessary to bring his nationality into it.

The difference being though is that had such a comment have been made by a Brit/Ossie/Kiwi/European etc then he would have been slammed down by his own fellow countrymen rather than having them come to his (or America's) defence.

 

i hope you dont really believe that. replace hatian with abo, paki, or algerian and see how many of your country men slap you down

<snip>

You are just ignorant. That is all.

Harcourt, when you do find a "bite my tongue" emoticon could I borrow it please.

Cheers

I try to. But they keep picking up on anything I say and the brawl starts again.

Do you notice that it is only the right wing........bite my tongue!!!!

I wish there was a "bite my tongue" emoticon. It would be easier to use that than resist this grating urge to snipe at every opportunity.

It's a symptom of how deeply I feel about...... bite my tongue.

If only they wouldn't.....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And they always....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And....

Oh...nevermind.

You said that I'm still on your agenda. I'm still waiting for something with substance.

ooooooohhhhhh. Bite my tongue.

Don't the bashers deserve a little credit?

Of course.

Although I do agree with Harcourt's initial response regarding maccaroni man's post, I do feel it was unnecessary to bring his nationality into it.

The difference being though is that had such a comment have been made by a Brit/Ossie/Kiwi/European etc then he would have been slammed down by his own fellow countrymen rather than having them come to his (or America's) defence.

i hope you dont really believe that. replace hatian with abo, paki, or algerian and see how many of your country men slap you down

<snip>

You are just ignorant. That is all.

Harcourt, when you do find a "bite my tongue" emoticon could I borrow it please.

Cheers

Ignorant? What do you call somone who thinks that all Brits, Aussies, other Europeans are united in their opinions on personal responsibility & waste of donations?

Argentina hit by 6.3 magnitude earthquake after Haiti and Venezuela

The latest news is a 6.3 magnitude earthquake struck Argentina after the 7.0 Haiti Earthquake and the 5.6 Venezuela Earthquake, and all less than a week apart.

According to the US Geological Survey, the earthquake was centered 354 km southeast of Ushuaia, Argentina, the capital of the Argentine province of Tierra del Fuego, at a depth of 21 km, or about 10.5 miles down. The earthquake hit at 8am local time (1200 GMT, 8pm Singapore time). Reuters reports that no tsunami warning was immediately issued by the West Coast and Alaska Tsunami Warning Center.

No word of damage as of this writing.

Argentina was planning to send a plane of supplies and aid for Haiti.

Earthquake strikes Venezuela

I was just reading something the other day that said geologists see many large quakes possible in 2010...Made me wonder when I saw these two.

Will try to find the link

I try to. But they keep picking up on anything I say and the brawl starts again.

Do you notice that it is only the right wing........bite my tongue!!!!

I wish there was a "bite my tongue" emoticon. It would be easier to use that than resist this grating urge to snipe at every opportunity.

It's a symptom of how deeply I feel about...... bite my tongue.

If only they wouldn't.....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And they always....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And....

Oh...nevermind.

You said that I'm still on your agenda. I'm still waiting for something with substance.

ooooooohhhhhh. Bite my tongue.

When you post something of any substance you can expect a response. I try not to respond to these "I think" or "I believe" type posts of which you are so fond.

Those posts are simply trolling.

However, when I do find something particularly ridiculous, I am likely to use some ROFL emoticons to reflect my feelings about a sophomoric post.

I try to. But they keep picking up on anything I say and the brawl starts again.

Do you notice that it is only the right wing........bite my tongue!!!!

I wish there was a "bite my tongue" emoticon. It would be easier to use that than resist this grating urge to snipe at every opportunity.

It's a symptom of how deeply I feel about...... bite my tongue.

If only they wouldn't.....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And they always....bite my tongue!!!! Don't start.

And....

Oh...nevermind.

You said that I'm still on your agenda. I'm still waiting for something with substance.

ooooooohhhhhh. Bite my tongue.

When you post something of any substance you can expect a response. I try not to respond to these "I think" or "I believe" type posts of which you are so fond.

Those posts are simply trolling.

However, when I do find something particularly ridiculous, I am likely to use some ROFL emoticons to reflect my feelings about a sophomoric post.

Mmmmmmm. Good. You're getting better. It's nice to see you trying.

at the end of the day let me say this, YES i do believe that the hatians should be helped and i am proud of the way MY country has taken charge, and led the way. The death toll will be high, the coming days and weeks will be a great challenge and with a little luck the dead will be buried, there will not be an outbreak of disease and the rebuilding process will move quickly. having said this i do not hold my breath, i suspect there will be complications, mobs will prevail, and america will be bashed for it's not doing enough. sad but true.

With that statement I totally agree. Those that choose to help ALWAYS get bashed for not doing enough. And, the bashers seldom do anything near enough themselves. I've seen it right here in Thailand. I saw it with the lazy bastards in New Orleans hurricane-flooding. I saw it in Somalia and I saw it in the former Yugoslavia. It is happening right now in Iraq and Afghanistan. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The trick, Ian, is not to give a rat's arse what the yapping pack say.

The history of the British Empire should be a required subject in all US schools.

The trick, Ian, is not to give a rat's arse what the yapping pack say.

The history of the British Empire should be a required subject in all US schools.

It is.

At least the parts where they got their asses kicked or bailed out.

That was funny!

The history of the British Empire should be a required subject in all US schools.

It is.

At least the parts where they got their asses kicked or bailed out.

It is a K says taught in US schools. But I was taught a different reason/angle than k

We were shown how an out of control empire eventually fell under its own weight of trying to police/govern too much that was not theirs to govern. The cost of which eventually collapsed them.

Same as other great empires that came before & fell from the same weight. Seems history will continue to be repeated till its lesson is learned.

As to the topic......

Another gallery

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/01/wor...-1/index.5.html

The trick, Ian, is not to give a rat's arse what the yapping pack say.

The history of the British Empire should be a required subject in all US schools.

It is.

At least the parts where they got their asses kicked or bailed out.

That was because the Brits tried to follow an arbitrary set of rules like a football match when they flip a coin to see who goes first...

As in the referees decision on the coin toss...

Americans wins the toss. They get to wear camouflage clothing and hide behind trees. The British lose the toss. They get to wear red uniforms and march single file out in the open.

The history of the British Empire should be a required subject in all US schools.

It is.

At least the parts where they got their asses kicked or bailed out.

It is a K says taught in US schools. But I was taught a different reason/angle than k

We were shown how an out of control empire eventually fell under its own weight of trying to police/govern too much that was not theirs to govern. The cost of which eventually collapsed them.

Same as other great empires that came before & fell from the same weight. Seems history will continue to be repeated till its lesson is learned.

As to the topic......

Another gallery

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/01/wor...-1/index.5.html

Where did you go to school? That might explain why you were taught what you were.

Where did you go to school? That might explain why you were taught what you were.

I do not divulge too much personal info about myself on the net.

Having been on the net since the early days & having been a sys admin for years it is just by choice.

I will say it is considered one of .. if not the best school in the state.

Entrance is granted to a small amount of applicants mainly at transition years. Once in none quit nor get removed as they are so tested before admission. When I was admitted ....less than 50 were allowed in out of well over 1000 applicants. So if your trying to imply a possible lack of teaching credentials at the school I attended...dream on.

Just saw a news clip here showing over 70 amputees a day in Haiti. They also said it does not look like it will be letting up any time soon.

Where did you go to school? That might explain why you were taught what you were.

I do not divulge too much personal info about myself on the net.

Having been on the net since the early days & having been a sys admin for years it is just by choice.

I will say it is considered one of .. if not the best school in the state.

Entrance is granted to a small amount of applicants mainly at transition years. Once in none quit nor get removed as they are so tested before admission. When I was admitted ....less than 50 were allowed in out of well over 1000 applicants. So if your trying to imply a possible lack of teaching credentials at the school I attended...dream on.

Sorry, I only meant what country. You mentioned something about being from a country that had a monarchy in one of your other posts.

Sorry, I only meant what country.

No problem.....

USA

Sorry, I only meant what country.

No problem.....

USA

If you don't mind me prying, what was this about from the volunteer thread?:

Having grown up in a Monarchy that was later overthrown....I am of the mind that the Thai's are doing the right thing.

You grew up in one country then later moved to the US and went to school? Did you go to school in both countries? You can answer without too many details if you want. I understand the security/privacy issue.

I understand the security/privacy issue.

Thanks

Wouldn't want to give anyone the chance to throw stones at your country!

Wouldn't want to give anyone the chance to throw stones at your country!

Stones are welcomed if warranted

I understand the security/privacy issue.

Thanks

I wasn't expecting total avoidance of the question though. So you grew up in a monarchy at the same time you went to school in the USA. Yasno.

I understand the security/privacy issue.

Thanks

I wasn't expecting total avoidance of the question though. So you grew up in a monarchy at the same time you went to school in the USA. Yasno.

I am not familiar with the term yasno ....?

You seem quite interested in my back ground? Any particular reason?

I understand the security/privacy issue.

Thanks

I wasn't expecting total avoidance of the question though. So you grew up in a monarchy at the same time you went to school in the USA. Yasno.

I am not familiar with the term yasno ....?

You seem quite interested in my back ground? Any particular reason?

when k asked where you went to school i assumed he was saying if you went to school in the east the view point will be different from the mid west or west coast. I was in the mid west and i can remember my 6th grade teacher making coments about the roman empire, the british empire and the possible future of the usa btw that was in the 60's

I understand the security/privacy issue.

Thanks

I wasn't expecting total avoidance of the question though. So you grew up in a monarchy at the same time you went to school in the USA. Yasno.

I am not familiar with the term yasno ....?

You seem quite interested in my back ground? Any particular reason?

Why? Honestly because you come across here as an American who isn't "blinded by patriotism" and has no problem pointing out the faults of America, Americans and certainly not the American military. You also have a fascination with Ron Paul which is highly unusual for an American. Then you say you grew up in a monarchy but at the same time went to school in the USA. So I'm thinking you aren't all you appear to be. That's all.

I'm thinking you aren't all you appear to be. That's all.

I am 100% the sum total of what I appear to be.

You seem like a sharp enough person....If you look at what I said & what you said you will easily know all you want to know.

When you do be satisfied with it as I do not need a thread about me

But again I fail to see the point of my origins.

Folks tend to need such info only to look for a spot to pigeon hole it.

I am a sum total of what I have lived & learned in life. My words here reflect that.

I'm thinking you aren't all you appear to be. That's all.

I am 100% the sum total of what I appear to be.

You seem like a sharp enough person....If you look at what I said & what you said you will easily know all you want to know.

When you do be satisfied with it as I do not need a thread about me

But again I fail to see the point of my origins.

Folks tend to need such info only to look for a spot to pigeon hole it.

I am a sum total of what I have lived & learned in life. My words here reflect that.

I can leave it at that.

Now, back to the topic...

US accused of 'occupying' Haiti as troops flood in

France accused the US of "occupying" Haiti on Monday as thousands of American troops flooded into the country to take charge of aid efforts and security.

The French minister in charge of humanitarian relief called on the UN to "clarify" the American role amid claims the military build up was hampering aid efforts.

Alain Joyandet admitted he had been involved in a scuffle with a US commander in the airport's control tower over the flight plan for a French evacuation flight.

"This is about helping Haiti, not about occupying Haiti," Mr Joyandet said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...s-flood-in.html

Hugo Chavez and this French minister.

From today's Times:

The earthquake’s destruction has been aggravated not by a pact with the Devil, but by the crippling legacy of imperialism

Ben Macintyre

Where does the fault lie in Haiti? For geologists, it lies on the line between the North American and Caribbean tectonic plates. For some, the earthquake is evidence of God’s wrath: the American evangelist Pat Robertson has even suggested that the horror is recompense for some voodoo pact made with the Devil at Haiti’s birth.

More sensible voices point to the procession of despots who have plundered Haiti over the years, depriving it of an effective infrastructure and rendering it uniquely vulnerable to natural disaster. But for many Haitians, the fault lies earlier — with Haiti’s colonial experience, the slavers and extortionists of empire who crippled it with debt and permanently stunted the economy. The fault line runs back 200 years, directly to France.

In the 18th century, Haiti was France’s imperial jewel, the Pearl of the Caribbean, the largest sugar exporter in the world. Even by colonial standards, the treatment of slaves working the Haitian plantations was truly vile. They died so fast that, at times, France was importing 50,000 slaves a year to keep up the numbers and the profits.

Inspired by the principles of the French Revolution, in 1791 the slaves rebelled under the leadership of the self-educated slave Toussaint L’Ouverture. After a vicious war, Napoleon’s forces were defeated. Haiti declared independence in 1804.

As Haiti struggles with new misfortune, it is worth remembering that noble achievement — this is the only nation to gain independence by a slave-led rebellion, the first black republic, and the second oldest republic in the western hemisphere. Haiti was founded on a demand for liberty from people whose liberty had been stolen: the country itself is a tribute to human resilience and freedom.

France did not forgive the impertinence and loss of earnings: 800 destroyed sugar plantations, 3,000 lost coffee estates. A brutal trade blockade was imposed. Former plantation owners demanded that Haiti be invaded, its population enslaved once more. Instead, the French State opted to bleed the new black republic white.

In 1825, in return for recognising Haitian independence, France demanded indemnity on a staggering scale: 150 million gold francs, five times the country’s annual export revenue. The Royal Ordinance was backed up by 12 French warships with 150 cannon.

The terms were non-negotiable. The fledgeling nation acceded, since it had little choice. Haiti must pay for its freedom, and pay it did, through the nose, for the next 122 years.

Historical accountancy is an inexact business, but the scale of French usury was astonishing. Even when the total indemnity was reduced to 90 million francs, Haiti remained crippled by debt. The country took out loans from US, German and French banks at extortionate rates. To put the cost into perspective, in 1803 France agreed to sell the Louisiana Territory, an area 74 times the size of Haiti, to the US, for 60 million francs.

Weighed down by this financial burden, Haiti was born almost bankrupt. In 1900 some 80 per cent of the national budget was still being swallowed up by debt repayments. Money that might have been spent on building a stable economy went to foreign bankers. To keep workers on the land and extract maximum crop yields to pay the indemnity, Haiti brought in the Rural Code, instituting a division between town and country, between a light-skinned elite and the dark-skinned majority, that still persists.

The debt was not finally paid off until 1947. By then, Haiti’s economy was hopelessly distorted, its land deforested, mired in poverty, politically and economically unstable, prey equally to the caprice of nature and the depredations of autocrats. Seven year ago, the Haitian Government demanded restitution from Paris to the tune of nearly $22 billion (including interest) for the gunboat diplomacy that had helped to make it the poorest country in the western hemisphere.

In the wake of last week’s earthquake, the effect of which has been so brutally magnified by Haiti’s economic fragility, there have been renewed calls for France to honour its moral debt. There is no chance that it will do so. The view from the Élysée is that the case was closed in 1885. In 2004 Jacques Chirac set up a Commission of Reflection under the left-wing philosopher Régis Debray to examine France’s historical relations with Haiti: it concluded blandly that the demand for restitution was “non-pertinent in both legal and historical terms”.

As Haiti faces social breakdown, government paralysis and death on a shattering scale, the French finance minister has called for a speeding up of the cancellation of Haiti’s debt. This is grim irony: if France had not saddled the country with debt almost from its inception, Haiti would have been far better equipped to cope with nature’s spite.

Bernard Kouchner, the French Foreign Minister, is calling for a “reconstruction and development” conference. “It is a chance to get Haiti once and for all out of the curse it seems to have been stuck with for such a long time,” President Sarkozy said.

This seems uncomfortably close to Mr Robertson’s insulting suggestion that Haitian slaves made a “pact with the Devil” to free themselves from Napoleon’s grip. The original curse was economic, not religious, and laid on Haiti by imperial France.

Haiti does not need more words, conferences or commissions of reflection. It needs money, urgently. So far, official donations from France are less than half of those from Britain.

The legacy of colonialism worldwide is a bitter one, but in few countries is there a more direct link between the sins of the past and the horrors of the present. Merely a French acknowledgement that the unfolding catastrophe is partly the consequence of history, and not merely blind fate, would go some way to salving Haiti’s wounds.

France does not pay for its history. But imagine what the reaction might be if, the next time you receive an outrageous bill in a French restaurant, you declare that payment is non-pertinent, set up a commission of reflection and walk out.

Thanks for that endure.

The contradictions in this article should by rights drive the boards conservatives into frothing confusion.

How dare Macintyre suggest the Haitian's aren't a lazy useless lot that fully deserve their poverty ..... hang on, this means supporting the French...

No doubt they'll just ignore it along with everything else they have trouble coming to grips with though.