I have yet to see any other national from any other country, whether France, UK, Holland, Australia, Germany etc. etc. who acts so itchy and sensitive when it comes to their country when people bash upon the same, like the Americans.

Are you back to this nonsense once again? As one Australian poster said, most posters do not know or care that much what is happening in all these other countries unless they live there. America, on the other hand, is the only superpower in the world, is on the International news all day, every day, and what happens in Washington DC affects every other country. Therefore America gets talked about more than other countries and it also gets bashed more. Many Americans get tired of hearing it and get "sensitive' about it. It is not that hard to figure out.

Controversial message UG....claiming it's nonsense on one hand when you started your message and in the end you say it's true and "not that hard to figure out".

LaoPo

OK, they've come a long way in 30 years. The west has had a huge appetite for buying sh&t in the last 30 years. I used to do it myself. Comfort shopping , buy anything as long as its cheap. I've just picked up a spanner to do a little Job and it snapped with very little applied pressure. You guessed it made in China. I maybe a bit behind the Curve on these things but come on they still make stuff we don't really need. What I do need is a 'Snap-On' spanner to get the Job Done. Snap-on - US I think or something decent made in Germany or dare I say it the UK.

Its a pretty Bleak outlook , a world dominated by China. I think China has more than its share of problems and is just as likely to implode as become the 'New' version of the New World Order.

I've seen these messages before but you seem to forget a few things:

The Chinese, basically, only make and produce what their WESTERN buyers want them to make and at what price.

Next to that, if the buyers (many of them) weren't so greedy they would invest a little more money in Product-Control BEFORE the products are shipped from the factories.

Of course, if I buy a mechanical tool from Germany it's probably better made and from better steel and spare parts than if it comes from China; but if the buyer wishes to make it exactly the same, he can get it, but at a much higher price.

It's all in the game.

The Chinese didn't start selling their stuff outside their borders...the BUYERS started coming to (first) Hong Kong and later directly into China itself.

And. if you say China is "likely to implode" I invite you to explain that; the point is that the Chinese are a lot better in bookkeeping than their western colleagues

The Chinese are savers; the westerner is a spender but the Chinese have to be cautious and avoid to become the same .

LaoPo

They don't mind a bit of gambling though. This may be what eventually keeps them from world domination.

They don't mind a bit of gambling though. This may be what eventually keeps them from world domination.

Funny you mentioned gambling.

In the US, an investor's letter is claiming that a little-known New York City firm received a 15 year contract to run China's biggest lottery expansion

"A small New York firm just landed an exclusive deal with the Chinese government... to run an estimated $150 BILLION industry that’s just beginning to form in China.

A company from Hong Kong that cut a similar deal with the government just shot up 300% in one month. According to our analyst, who was in China recently, this U.S. company could soar even higher."

Why the Chinese would want a NY company to run that business is the question.

If you want a copy, let me know.

LaoPo

I have yet to see any other national from any other country, whether France, UK, Holland, Australia, Germany etc. etc. who acts so itchy and sensitive when it comes to their country when people bash upon the same, like the Americans.

Are you back to this nonsense once again? As one Australian poster said, most posters do not know or care that much what is happening in all these other countries unless they live there. America, on the other hand, is the only superpower in the world, is on the International news all day, every day, and what happens in Washington DC affects every other country. Therefore America gets talked about more than other countries and it also gets bashed more. Many Americans get tired of hearing it and get "sensitive' about it. It is not that hard to figure out.

Controversial message UG....claiming it's nonsense on one hand when you started your message and in the end you say it's true and "not that hard to figure out".

LaoPo

Exuse me, but maybe you need to hire an interpreter to help you with reading the forum. English is obviously not your native language.

Your question to me is a repeated personal one about life choices and personal, individual decisions that have a significant professional dimension. I'd accept and respond to the question if asked by certain people, but you are not one of them. Your repeated asking of the question is unwelcome, presumptious and rude.

Yes the PRChinese have accomplished a great deal in a very short 30 years. And you should know that in China R&D means receive and duplicate.

While the PRChinese have accomplished much in a short time, the "four uns" of PRChina do apply, and they are serious and profound "uns".

You none the less can accept my word that I do respect your bond with the Chinese people. I like a lot of them - I mean personally I like a lot of Chinese people and I like them a lot. I like some Chinese very much, others even more. So many have been so welcoming of me, so friendly and helpful, so generous and simply fun and loveable people to know and with whom to share everyday life. I hadn't imagined a Chinese person could be charming and, while there aren't many, there are a delightful few.

In a sense, however, China itself is a paradox and more....the place has too many people to be managable or democratic. The present system represses the individual in every respect, yet freedom would produce chaos and self destruction. What is the happy medium? The Golden Mean? Where and how can the needed medium be attained? This is the core stuff of Greek tragedy.

Interesting post; and about your so called "personal" question: consider it to be a rethorical question. Problem solved. It's up to you where you want to live. Don't make such a fuzz about it.

China R&D receive and duplicate ? No doubt a lot of it but not all. It's like 50 years ago when the Japanese started producing (read: copying) products, originally made in the west; and where are they now ?

They took over gigantic markets of products made in the west before: cars, electronics, audio, pc's you name it; they outsmarted the west on many fronts, simply because their western competitors were sleeping and arrogant.

Your "uns" (Hu Jintao's) are agreed upon and need a lot of time and I assume you know that since nobody (from the west) can change it other than trying to with dialogue.

If course China is a paradox but which country is not? Is India (which will overtake China in population in 10-20 years) not a paradox?....is Thailand not a fine example of a paradox country ?

When is a country manageable and democratic Publicus?

Is that America with it's 4 million people in 1790...........75 million people back in 1900 or with 250 million in 1990* or now with some 305 million people...

* a growth of more than 333 % in 100 years?

Or is it still manageable in 2043 when it foresees:

USA: 2043 - 400,527,776 (the year of 400 million) ?**

I don't know but maybe you know.

BUT: when you wrote: "The present system represses the individual in every respect, yet freedom would produce chaos and self destruction." I agree with you, although the word "repress in every respect" is not felt by many, as they told me themselves; the ones I met and know that is, and not 1,3 Billion...

China is a complicated country and we can't deny that it has huge problems but some (not you P.) forget that the entire EU Union with 500 million people PLUS the USA with 305 million people are still short of some 500+ million people to arrive at the number China has....and India has almost with 1,150M .

"We" in the west better cooperate with Asia where more than 60% of the world's population lives.

Consensus together with dialogue are the words to try and come to an agreement with Asia and it's different cultures and view upon live in general;

acting like a preacher who says "you should do it the way we do it in the west" is not the right approach, the same as the west wouldn't take such comments/lessons from the Chinese, or Indians, or Thai

** http://geography.about.com/od/obtainpopula...spopulation.htm

LaoPo

Two-thirds of the world's poor live in Asia. Half of the population of China live on less than USD $2 a day, the same as almost half of the Thai population and of so many other third world 'developing' countries. This problem is not to be lain at the doorstep of the West. 

Rather, we well know it is the result of history and the need of large families in rural, agrarian societies such as China, which could not conceive of an Industrial Revolution. When I say to my dear Chinese friends, and especially to my students in class, that it's sooooo much easier to have a wealthy country of 300,000,000 than of 1,500,000,000 the Chinese immediately recognize the reality of my statement. (300m - 400m, what's the difference? Plus the 30m of Canada when, in the interests of competing against China, India, Brazil etc, the Canadian elites know they must incorporate into an inevitable  United States of North America consisting of a new USA after absorbing Canada).  

The PRChinese know they're developing about 40% of their population and society, yet are left vacuous when they consider the realities of the future. The revived dream of the Middle Kingdom again dominating the world is hollow and hopeless. Hopes of the PRC dominating the future quickly evaporate in the face of such overwhelming odds and the voracious consumption by the PRChina of the planet's rapidly dwindling natural resources, post-Industrial Society. Many Chinese students are left feeling empty inside when they think and state that before too much longer, "There won't be any more oil" The most optimistic of Chinese know their present growth and its fossil fuel resource base is a doomed enterprise because it's begun too late in history, of which China has (too) much. 

I showed my classes paper personal checks (cheques) I still have (and use perhaps 3x a year). The Chinese learners were fascinated to see such a relic of past economic development because they know they've missed that central aspect of financial and economic development. The Chinese learners know the time of paper checks was a time of prosperity and optimism in the advanced economies/countries, but that even with electronic banking they never will see such an equivalent time at any point in the future. The educated Chinese see a future that is futile, even if wind power, along with with solar and geothermal and other sources of natural power become the norm, because of its population of now more than 1,500,000,000.   

It's impossible for the PRC to develop into an affluent society, such as, say, S Korea and its population of some 45,000,000 because China has a population that is beyond any measure of national prosperity, especially during a time of transition from fossil fuels to inventively better and cleaner, if somewhat inconvenient, natural and nuclear powered energy and fuel sources.

We should and need to join in a common human pact which, while avoiding the Malthusian 'solution', deals with such astronomically high and unmanagable populations in both China and India especially.The sooner or later alternatives are of great interest in Beijing. Let's hope some rational decisions can be agreed. 

I'm enjoying your analysis Publicus.

I have yet to see any other national from any other country, whether France, UK, Holland, Australia, Germany etc. etc. who acts so itchy and sensitive when it comes to their country when people bash upon the same, like the Americans.

Are you back to this nonsense once again? As one Australian poster said, most posters do not know or care that much what is happening in all these other countries unless they live there. America, on the other hand, is the only superpower in the world, is on the International news all day, every day, and what happens in Washington DC affects every other country. Therefore America gets talked about more than other countries and it also gets bashed more. Many Americans get tired of hearing it and get "sensitive' about it. It is not that hard to figure out.

Controversial message UG....claiming it's nonsense on one hand when you started your message and in the end you say it's true and "not that hard to figure out".

LaoPo

Exuse me, but maybe you need to hire an interpreter to help you with reading the forum. English is obviously not your native language.

Maybe I need one but you have to start with correct spelling first and secondly, correct; English is my 2nd or 3rd language, depends if I speak English or German.

LaoPo

Two-thirds of the world's poor live in Asia. Half of the population of China live on less than USD $2 a day, the same as almost half of the Thai population and of so many other third world 'developing' countries. This problem is not to be lain at the doorstep of the West. 

Rather, we well know it is the result of history and the need of large families in rural, agrarian societies such as China, which could not conceive of an Industrial Revolution. When I say to my dear Chinese friends, and especially to my students in class, that it's sooooo much easier to have a wealthy country of 300,000,000 than of 1,500,000,000 the Chinese immediately recognize the reality of my statement. (300m - 400m, what's the difference? Plus the 30m of Canada when, in the interests of competing against China, India, Brazil etc, the Canadian elites know they must incorporate into an inevitable  United States of North America consisting of a new USA after absorbing Canada).  

The PRChinese know they're developing about 40% of their population and society, yet are left vacuous when they consider the realities of the future. The revived dream of the Middle Kingdom again dominating the world is hollow and hopeless. Hopes of the PRC dominating the future quickly evaporate in the face of such overwhelming odds and the voracious consumption by the PRChina of the planet's rapidly dwindling natural resources, post-Industrial Society. Many Chinese students are left feeling empty inside when they think and state that before too much longer, "There won't be any more oil" The most optimistic of Chinese know their present growth and its fossil fuel resource base is a doomed enterprise because it's begun too late in history, of which China has (too) much. 

I showed my classes paper personal checks (cheques) I still have (and use perhaps 3x a year). The Chinese learners were fascinated to see such a relic of past economic development because they know they've missed that central aspect of financial and economic development. The Chinese learners know the time of paper checks was a time of prosperity and optimism in the advanced economies/countries, but that even with electronic banking they never will see such an equivalent time at any point in the future. The educated Chinese see a future that is futile, even if wind power, along with with solar and geothermal and other sources of natural power become the norm, because of its population of now more than 1,500,000,000.   

It's impossible for the PRC to develop into an affluent society, such as, say, S Korea and its population of some 45,000,000 because China has a population that is beyond any measure of national prosperity, especially during a time of transition from fossil fuels to inventively better and cleaner, if somewhat inconvenient, natural and nuclear powered energy and fuel sources.

We should and need to join in a common human pact which, while avoiding the Malthusian 'solution', deals with such astronomically high and unmanagable populations in both China and India especially.The sooner or later alternatives are of great interest in Beijing. Let's hope some rational decisions can be agreed. 

Of course it's easier to have a wealthy country with 300M rather than a much poorer country with 1,3B people; especially if the wealthy country had so many more decades in time to develop in a free industrializing and later industrialized and capitalized country. And look what that country with it's capitalism brought to themselves...

I can almost sense the hunger of your students for a wise and foreign American teacher; of course they are hungry for your words, the same as they are hungry for any foreigner, talking about the "west"; I know from experience.

One of my staff in Guangzhou wants to go abroad; the chap speaks very good English and even better in writing. I advised him to stay in China and make money there and travel on holiday when he has the money to do so. Most think the "west" is about honey and milk.

It's not, and we know it, especially not for newcomers; nobody is waiting for new immigrants now. He has more opportunities in China than he would have in the US or Europe, Australia, where ever.

You're painting a doom scenario for China and the rest of the world if oil would be finished.

But one: there's more oil in the world than known now and second: China is a leader where it comes to alternative energy like wind, sun and water. They're investing billions to improve the output in alternative energy and they should.

I'm flabbergasted when you say that educated Chinese see a pointless future, futile in your words, and I find that a dangerous road; what the heck are you teaching your students.. that their fathers told you so? A future without dreams, without goals ?

Give me a break...educated Chinese telling you there's no future for China....futile.

Is an America where 45M people, out of 305M, are without health insurance the future?; where hundreds of thousands of people live in cars? where the majority of States are factually bankrupt ? where Homelessness is a problem that affects many people in America ?*

Is that what you're trying to say an teach your students?

Do you paint them the misery in your own country as a result of the failing capitalistic system where the greed of the Bankers and Financial system caused the collapse of the world's financial system ?

Or do you just paint the Disney and Hollywood future to them and try to lure them to be the new immigrants the USA needs so desperately ?...growing from 305M now to 400 Million in 2043 ?

Is that it ? Or isn't it time Publicus, to teach your students also the shortcomings of the most Powerful Country on Earth ?

You show your student the old fashioned North American paper personal cheque system ? A system long forgotten in Europe ?

You talk about alternatives;

I'm all ears how Publicus will solve the problems of 2 countries with both more than 1 Billion each and some 2,5 Billion together.

BTW: where did you find the number of 1,5Billion ? Curious...and apart from that Publicus, talking huge numbers of people, while we're at it anyway:

Isn't the US to be blamed also for being responsible for growth in the World's population with a staggering +400% in just 110 years? From 75M in 1900 to 305 Million now ?

In comparison: China had 400M** in 1900 and 1.338.000.000 now according to the most reliable sources, including the CIA, which is a growth of 334%, still less than the US, in growth percentage.

But, if you can prove that it is 1,5Billion instead, please prove it.

* http://portal.hud.gov/portal/page/portal/H...cs/homelessness

** http://www.populstat.info/Asia/chinac.htm

LaoPo

Maybe I need one but you have to start with correct spelling first

Sorry, but since you brought it up, you are in no position to join the spelling police just yet - the pot is calling the kettle black. I think that rhetorical is the word that you are grasping for here.

Interesting post; and about your so called "personal" question: consider it to be a rethorical question.

No excuse for poor spelling these days, spell check rocks!

My spelling has deteriorate recently, seems to be associated with some slight short term memory loss. Part of the ageing process I suppose.

One word I can never spell is restaurant, some days I mess it up so badly even spell check asks me <deleted> I'm talking about.

maybe you need to hire an interpreter to help you with reading the forum. English is obviously not your native language.

Maybe I need one...

LaoPo

By the way, it is nice to see you answering honestly for a change.

Maybe I need one but you have to start with correct spelling first

Sorry, but since you brought it up, you are in no position to join the spelling police just yet - the pot is calling the kettle black. I think that rhetorical is the word that you are grasping for here.

Interesting post; and about your so called "personal" question: consider it to be a rethorical question.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/China-and-ne...98#entry3313998

"Exuse me" UG.... see link above; your answer.

But to be correct; I looked it up for the spelling in American English: Rhetorical and made a typing error: Touché

But, thinking of it, I better not hire you as an Interpreter

LaoPo

maybe you need to hire an interpreter to help you with reading the forum. English is obviously not your native language.

Maybe I need one...

LaoPo

By the way, it is nice to see you answering honestly for a change.

You're welcome; I never said I was perfect in English; far from it.

I'm learning new words, sentences and meanings every single day.

NOBODY, even with an English Mother tongue is perfect in his/her own language.

I've seen teachers here on board but caught them many times over with spelling errors/mistakes. But, it's normal on a forum like this.

People are sometimes (overly) tired, drunk (I don't drink), typing without proper light, not using spell checkers; I could go on.

It's not a big deal, specially if English isn't your Mother tongue.

In 99% of all messages I post, I check them before posting but of course quite a few times mistakes still slip through.

Mea Culpa for that

LaoPo

You've caught teachers out?

Well, I suppose there are teachers and there are teachers...

NOBODY, even with an English Mother tongue is perfect in his/her own language.

Your English is quite good for a non-native speaker. The only reason I suggested some help with reading the forum is that sometimes you comment negatively on things that you don't seem to understand entirely. It is frustrating when someone who is not totally fluent in the English language is being critical about something that they have misinterpreted and they think that they are in the right.

There's a trend among forum contributors to rewrite their arguments if they don't meet rapturous acceptance. This can go on ad nauseum until even the most fluent among us have difficulty deciphering the meaning.

This is the reason I try to withdraw from threads once I've made my point.

If I have faults, please never let them be that I'm repetitive and boring.

Having said that, My Assistant just revealed that sceadugenga, Ulysses G, Harcourt and koheesti had a total of 139 posts today. (So far).

Do you think there's any chance of us getting paid by the line?

I despise spelling and grammar wars. However, when a British CELTA-DELTA-course instructor couldn't right clear directions to the party, I lost respect for the course,.

NOBODY, even with an English Mother tongue is perfect in his/her own language.

Your English is quite good for a non-native speaker. The only reason I suggested some help with reading the forum is that sometimes you comment negatively on things that you don't seem to understand entirely. It is frustrating when someone who is not totally fluent in the English language is being critical about something that they have misinterpreted and they think that they are in the right.

Hmmm...maybe you have a point.

The problem with non-native English tongue members like myself is that they have to deal with many kinds of English and meanings from native-English born members who have different kinds of expressions, learned from their native "grounds" so to speak, including the various grades of education and that makes it difficult and problematic at times.

Your "fluent" English is American English and even in the US people from all directions in the US speak and express themselves different than others although most will understand what the other says or speaks about.

If I look at the many possibilities of spell checkers in just English (on my Vista Home) it's mind boggling; you guys probably don't use spell checkers very often but there are many "kinds" of English.

I agree that sometimes I'm really flabbergasted about certain expressions and explanations and it happened before that I was put on the wrong leg so to speak, meaning I completely misunderstood what the other said and/or meant.

It's all in the game on a multi cultural with multi-language-born members forum with so many members from so many countries.

LaoPo

Pretty much everything that you have said here is true, but if it makes you feel better, pretty much everyone needs to use spellcheck as it is too easy to forget one letter - or if you did not press a key hard enough and do not realize that you missed something - and, of course, no one knows how to spell every single word. If someone's spelling is always correct, there is a pretty good chace that they are using spell check.

Pretty much everything that you have said here is true, but if it makes you feel better, pretty much everyone needs to use spellcheck as it is too easy to forget one letter - or if you did not press a key hard enough and do not realize that you missed something - and, of course, no one knows how to spell every single word. If someone's spelling is always correct, there is a pretty good chace that they are using spell check.

search and find what your spell checker missed this time....

But cheers for your input; I will probably never be too old to learn, every single day of my life.

LaoPo

I despise spelling and grammar wars. However, when a British CELTA-DELTA-course instructor couldn't right clear directions to the party, I lost respect for the course,.

I haven't written anything that matters for a long time now, I make that many basic errors it takes me ten minutes of editing just to place a post consisting of a few paragraphs here.

When I go back over what I've written several years ago I still cringe occasionally when I see something like there instead of their, and I know very well I spent hours rewriting that passage.

Pretty much everything that you have said here is true, but if it makes you feel better, pretty much everyone needs to use spellcheck as it is too easy to forget one letter - or if you did not press a key hard enough and do not realize that you missed something - and, of course, no one knows how to spell every single word. If someone's spelling is always correct, there is a pretty good chace that they are using spell check.

search and find what your spell checker missed this time....

But cheers for your input; I will probably never be too old to learn, every single day of my life.

LaoPo

The problem is that I did not use it , but you missed one that I have been doing my best to not point out:

I despise spelling and grammar wars. However, when a British CELTA-DELTA-course instructor couldn't right clear directions to the party, I lost respect for the course,.

An 'English teacher' who can't tell people how to get within 6 km of the house has no business teaching English, and shame on the CELTA franchises for hiring that mis-teacher.

<<snip>>

Its a pretty Bleak outlook , a world dominated by China. I think China has more than its share of problems and is just as likely to implode as become the 'New' version of the New World Order.

<<sinp>>

And. if you say China is "likely to implode" I invite you to explain that; the point is that the Chinese are a lot better in bookkeeping than their western colleagues  

The Chinese are savers; the westerner is a spender but the Chinese have to be cautious and avoid to become the same .

LaoPo

Getting back to the substance of the thread, the People's Republic of China, as is pointed out, is not the "New" version of the "New World Order." It is, rather, a nation of conquered minorities who remain severely restless, a nation within which everyone must pay all medical costs out of pocket, a nation without any unemployment compensation system, is absent a retirement system for all but the privileged few Communist Party members, is corrupt light years beyond Thaksin, and of a moral character and culture that will say to the most overweight, 'ugly' and brainless idiot that he/she is attractive and intelligent. This culture is not the culture of the future, nor is it a culture of modern global trust or confidence. 

Obviously the Chinese obviously are a nation of obvious savers, for reasons obviously stated above and a multitude of other reasons of societal deficit, deficiency and inadequacy. Clearly, when one has to pay all medical expenses out of pocket; when there isn't any retirement system except for the privileged few, one has to save, save and save - not simply for the rainy day, but for the regular and repeated storms of normal and natural life and to have a few bucks in old age to supplement the payment burdens imposed on adult children who are struggling to raise their own families and to get Western-style rich. 

Some time ago, for example, sicle cell anemia was identified and publicized as a significant phenomenon among African males, to include African-American males. More recently, among many Chinese males, due to Western medical science - reluctantly received in China which has a death grip on "traditional Chinese medicine" - a blood vessel disorder which results in infertility has been identified and, using Western medical science, can be cured by surgical procedure if typically done by age 30. 

The fact is Western medical science has superseded the much worshiped and vaunted by Chinese "traditional" Chinese medicine in awesome ways by devising ways to cure and/or prevent such diseases as small pox, chicken pox, diphtheria, typhus, typhoid fever, syphilis and other STDs, polio, measles, tuberculosis, heart disease etc - and in prolonging life in other diseases such as cancer and most remarkably, HIV-Aids among other fatal human illnesses and diseases too numerous to list here. The much worshiped "traditional" Chinese medicines are feeble and, well, traditional, i.e., useful and applicable in a previous time, place and circumstance but in the modern world and in modern society irrelevant, immaterial and foolishly useless. 

Yeah, the Chinese remain savers - the mass of the 800,000,000 Chinese who live on less than USD $2 a day, save every 0.10 of RMB as they must. Meanwhile, the fewer than 1% of the PRChinese who own 70% of the nation's wealth flaunt their newer than new New York City wealth by driving a purple Rolls Royce (such as I saw outside the Hong Kong Jockey Club earlier today) then by buying out a Georgio Armani store to include the show windows manneqins.  

McWorld isn't the greatest of worlds, but it sure beats the hopeless paradox and contradictions of the People's Republic of China, which is not to denigrate the many Chinese I know personally who are dear to me.           

<<snip>>

Its a pretty Bleak outlook , a world dominated by China. I think China has more than its share of problems and is just as likely to implode as become the 'New' version of the New World Order.

<<sinp>>

And. if you say China is "likely to implode" I invite you to explain that; the point is that the Chinese are a lot better in bookkeeping than their western colleagues

The Chinese are savers; the westerner is a spender but the Chinese have to be cautious and avoid to become the same .

LaoPo

Getting back to the substance of the thread, the People's Republic of China, as is pointed out, is not the "New" version of the "New World Order." It is, rather, a nation of conquered minorities who remain severely restless, a nation within which everyone must pay all medical costs out of pocket, a nation without any unemployment compensation system, is absent a retirement system for all but the privileged few Communist Party members, is corrupt light years beyond Thaksin, and of a moral character and culture that will say to the most overweight, 'ugly' and brainless idiot that he/she is attractive and intelligent. This culture is not the culture of the future, nor is it a culture of modern global trust or confidence.

Obviously the Chinese obviously are a nation of obvious savers, for reasons obviously stated above and a multitude of other reasons of societal deficit, deficiency and inadequacy. Clearly, when one has to pay all medical expenses out of pocket; when there isn't any retirement system except for the privileged few, one has to save, save and save - not simply for the rainy day, but for the regular and repeated storms of normal and natural life and to have a few bucks in old age to supplement the payment burdens imposed on adult children who are struggling to raise their own families and to get Western-style rich.

Some time ago, for example, sicle cell anemia was identified and publicized as a significant phenomenon among African males, to include African-American males. More recently, among many Chinese males, due to Western medical science - reluctantly received in China which has a death grip on "traditional Chinese medicine" - a blood vessel disorder which results in infertility has been identified and, using Western medical science, can be cured by surgical procedure if typically done by age 30.

The fact is Western medical science has superseded the much worshiped and vaunted by Chinese "traditional" Chinese medicine in awesome ways by devising ways to cure and/or prevent such diseases as small pox, chicken pox, diphtheria, typhus, typhoid fever, syphilis and other STDs, polio, measles, tuberculosis, heart disease etc - and in prolonging life in other diseases such as cancer and most remarkably, HIV-Aids among other fatal human illnesses and diseases too numerous to list here. The much worshiped "traditional" Chinese medicines are feeble and, well, traditional, i.e., useful and applicable in a previous time, place and circumstance but in the modern world and in modern society irrelevant, immaterial and foolishly useless.

Yeah, the Chinese remain savers - the mass of the 800,000,000 Chinese who live on less than USD $2 a day, save every 0.10 of RMB as they must. Meanwhile, the fewer than 1% of the PRChinese who own 70% of the nation's wealth flaunt their newer than new New York City wealth by driving a purple Rolls Royce (such as I saw outside the Hong Kong Jockey Club earlier today) then by buying out a Georgio Armani store to include the show windows manneqins.

McWorld isn't the greatest of worlds, but it sure beats the hopeless paradox and contradictions of the People's Republic of China, which is not to denigrate the many Chinese I know personally who are dear to me.

You are probably correct in what you say.....nonetheless, by sheer weight of numbers in terms of population, dollars, productivity etc, and a relentless drive, the Chinese may still become THE dominant force of the world. Whether their system is workable or not, the inexorable tidal wave does seem to be rolling up the estuary.

If for nothing else, China will expand it's influence, and probably it's borders, in search of water.

Water is the new oil. and SE Asia will be the first foray over the border for China.

It's already starting with Chinese purchases of as much arable land as they can.

I think it is feasible that China will eventually go beyond purchases, and take by force....in the same way as the current decaying empire has done for fuel.

Getting back to the substance of the thread, the People's Republic of China, as is pointed out, is not the "New" version of the "New World Order." It is, rather, a nation of conquered minorities who remain severely restless, a nation within which everyone must pay all medical costs out of pocket, a nation without any unemployment compensation system, is absent a retirement system for all but the privileged few Communist Party members, is corrupt light years beyond Thaksin, and of a moral character and culture that will say to the most overweight, 'ugly' and brainless idiot that he/she is attractive and intelligent. This culture is not the culture of the future, nor is it a culture of modern global trust or confidence. 

Obviously the Chinese obviously are a nation of obvious savers, for reasons obviously stated above and a multitude of other reasons of societal deficit, deficiency and inadequacy. Clearly, when one has to pay all medical expenses out of pocket; when there isn't any retirement system except for the privileged few, one has to save, save and save - not simply for the rainy day, but for the regular and repeated storms of normal and natural life and to have a few bucks in old age to supplement the payment burdens imposed on adult children who are struggling to raise their own families and to get Western-style rich. 

Some time ago, for example, sicle cell anemia was identified and publicized as a significant phenomenon among African males, to include African-American males. More recently, among many Chinese males, due to Western medical science - reluctantly received in China which has a death grip on "traditional Chinese medicine" - a blood vessel disorder which results in infertility has been identified and, using Western medical science, can be cured by surgical procedure if typically done by age 30. 

The fact is Western medical science has superseded the much worshiped and vaunted by Chinese "traditional" Chinese medicine in awesome ways by devising ways to cure and/or prevent such diseases as small pox, chicken pox, diphtheria, typhus, typhoid fever, syphilis and other STDs, polio, measles, tuberculosis, heart disease etc - and in prolonging life in other diseases such as cancer and most remarkably, HIV-Aids among other fatal human illnesses and diseases too numerous to list here. The much worshiped "traditional" Chinese medicines are feeble and, well, traditional, i.e., useful and applicable in a previous time, place and circumstance but in the modern world and in modern society irrelevant, immaterial and foolishly useless. 

Yeah, the Chinese remain savers - the mass of the 800,000,000 Chinese who live on less than USD $2 a day, save every 0.10 of RMB as they must. Meanwhile, the fewer than 1% of the PRChinese who own 70% of the nation's wealth flaunt their newer than new New York City wealth by driving a purple Rolls Royce (such as I saw outside the Hong Kong Jockey Club earlier today) then by buying out a Georgio Armani store to include the show windows manneqins.  

McWorld isn't the greatest of worlds, but it sure beats the hopeless paradox and contradictions of the People's Republic of China, which is not to denigrate the many Chinese I know personally who are dear to me.           

You're poorly informed.

Many people DO have health insurance in some form; I know from my own family, friends and relatives. The situation you paint is not 100% fact but you present it like that.

My own MIL, 2 years ago had an extremely complicated tumor operation because of a tumor behind her eye; she was operated by the # 1 Specialist in Zhejiang Province and the operation when smooth; the family had to pay 20% of the costs themselves which were very substantial I tell you and the rest was covered by their normal health insurance.

Your claims are incorrect!

The same for the retirement system; many elderly have DO have some sort of a pension. Facts!

It might not be a fantastic and sufficient income system yet but point me at a perfect system in your own country where the majority of the States is de facto bankrupt as is the whole country. Bankrupt.

I find it most disturbing you point out, every single post, that the Chinese system is so bad (in comparison to the West...or your own America?); my gosh, I asked you many questions, yet to fail to answer them.

Now you start talking about diseases amongst African males.

From there you jump to the Chinese traditional medications as if 5,000 years' old medicines are completely useless.

I don't know if you've visited Academic Hospitals in China but I did, and in every single proper and utilized hospital they have 2 kinds of pharmacies, next to each other: the traditional- and the western medications' one. One doesn't necessarily outperform the other as you claim.

A few years ago I wasn't able to walk anymore because of immense back pain; I was treated by a Lady Professor in Acupuncture and 1 hour later I could have run the 100 m hurdles again; amazing.

No western medicine or treatment could have accomplished the same.

I give up since every time you also throw around hundreds of millions of people with your so called facts which you are unable to prove and as if you're talking about grains of sand instead human beings.

And, talking about Rolls Royces: more than 30 years ago I already noticed a white RR in Tsim Sha Tsui/Kowloon HK where the driver let a Chinese businessman step out whilst an old woman lied in the gutters next to him, drunk.

It was about the same picture I got in downtown NY, some 35 years ago where I noticed the same purple RR with a white chauffeur (...), letting a black negro pimp stepping out

The difference Publicus, between poor Chinese people making $2/day and save 0,10/ct/day (better make that 0,60ct/day since they save some 30% of income) and Americans is that the American spends $ 1,10 to $ 1,50 of his earned dollar and that's why America is in such deep sh_t, the same as the rest of the western world.

I repeat my observation about you: your glass is always half empty; mine is still half full.

Dream on.

LaoPo

Gentlemen of the dueling viewpoints: the glass is neither full nor empty.