Wang Tan Security Review

[DavidOxon]

Hi there . . .

anyone living in moo baan Wang Tan might be interested to know that the management of the moo baan

are going to make all our security guards redundant and replace them by CCTV which will be funded

by an increase in the monthly service charge of 1 baht per talang wah.

I think this is a terrible idea, the guys, though quite laid back, are a nice bunch of guys

and more to the point are actually a physical presence here that can help if required . . . unlike CCTV

that can only record what happens!

I personally dislike the intrusion of CCTV but that is another matter.

Recap

Sack all the security guards

Put in CCTV

Charge us more every month for the honour!

Anyone else fancy complaining en bloc?

David

Edit for typo

Edited January 27, 2010 by DavidOxon

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with David, but having both guards and CCTV might be worth paying a little more for.

I have had a problem with night time vandalism ever since I opened my business and although it stopped when we put a guard out front, someone would attack the place every time he took a night off.

We finally installed a big security system inside and a bunch of infared cameras outside and everything has been fine since.

It is my opinion that when criminals see a well protected outside area they usually look for somewhere easier to break in.

[DavidOxon]

the security guards are really friendly and cheery, they're not 'SECURITY' but I would

rather have them than cameras, such a shame to kick them out. they probably have families to feed,

some are quite young, but their's a couple of 'old boys' too.

[johnsjourney]

It is the Power Class's aim in life to extract rent from the rest of us by all means available. Unless the cameras are going to get regularly stolen this seems an extravagant price on a long term basis considering the number of talang wah in the estate. I thought Tesco had replaced the car ticket people with robots because the robots were cheaper.

Anyway I look forward to tripping alarms as I jump the gate at the back exit. Maybe the cameras will find the ghosts.

[Ulysses G.]

the security guards are really friendly and cheery, they're not 'SECURITY' but I would

rather have them than cameras, such a shame to kick them out. they probably have families to feed,

some are quite young, but their's a couple of 'old boys' too.

I understand and they also prevent crime just by being around. I would ask that they be kept on, but CCTV be added as well. It is worth it if they charge a reasonable price.

[Sparkles]

Not the sort of news we need David.Management at Wang Tan seems to be unable to get anythng right. Suggest we contact immediate neighbours and/or get a petition ASAP or confront the Manger if we can find him . We never have any luck talking to hi9m about aproblem he is always hiding somewhere.

[noise]

Not the sort of news we need ......... Suggest we contact immediate neighbours and/or get a petition ASAP or confront the Manger if we can find him . ........

David

As you said, CCTV only records what happens and is only useful if it gets a good record of the identify of a person who can then be identified and found. Even then, it may not help you recover any of your goods.

If you are unable to persuade the manager/owners to continue to provide guards in addition to the CCTV (if they insist on the CCTV), you and your neighbors might just hire the guards yourselves. The facilities are there, so the moo baan should have no objection to them being used, cleaned, maintained (for the most part) at no cost to them.

And since you are paying them, they might even be more protective "of you" than the current guards. Something to think about?

[cmsally]

I presume that the cameras are able to ride bicycles around the estate every hour or so on patrol!

That is what the security guards do on most estates especially the larger ones.

Maybe the cameras take IDs and give out visitor cards too!

Security guards are often not the scariest looking people but having just cameras is ludicrous. The management must have just moved from a condo!

[Thaihog]

The management company were obviously offered a nice sweetener from the CCTV company, an offer they couldn't refuse.

[Dustoff]

~

We have been owner/residents in Wang Tan for some six years now and would happily get involved in a community effort to put a stop to this!

We find comfort in the physical guards and there are many things that cameras just cannot do. The guards patrol this village continuously which gives a very real human presence, they spot and report any observed problems whether security-related or not, you can always flag one down and report any problems which they will immediately report to the appropriate people, and are themselves able to answer many questions like why the electricity or water is off and for how long.

There was a rumor around for a while that the owner of this complex was selling his home and moving out - anyone have info on that?

But for the initial investment, cameras would be far cheaper, so why a perpetual increase in the maintenance fee?

Also, while cameras may actually be installed, there is no way for any of us to know that they are turned on, being monitored, or are even working! At least with the roving guards, we know that we are getting what we are paying for.

Da wife says that they recently laid off all the street cleaners and that we are now responsible for cleaning the streets alongside our homes. Did anyone see a reduction in community fees to reflect the saving realized by management? Likely not...

It may at some point become worthwhile to set up a small group of community volunteers to present grievances to management on behalf of concerned residents.

[Thailand]

Interesting.

I have heard that they are installing CCTV at the entrances but they will be keeping the "security" guards, certainly the night patrols.

The cleaning of the roadway in front of one's property has been the responsibility of the householders for some time now, the general cleaning of fallen leaves etc not outside residences is still done by the estate.

Yes, the owner is seeking to sell his property (for about 2 years now), no he is not moving out of the estate. It is simply that the house is far too big for just him and his wife and he has used other accommodation for some time now.

So before we organise a petition and decide on what colour of shirts would be appropriate for the protesters perhaps check the sources and confirm exactly what is happening?

[chiangmaiexpat]

A similar thing happened at the Laguna about 20 months ago. They replaced the guards at the entry points with big proximity-card controlled iron gates. The new gates are not only frequently defect, but the cards are so easy to duplicate that even the ice-cream vendor has one. Management is quite satisfied with "appearing" secure rather than with "being" secure. In Thailand, almost everything seems to be about appearance. Security is no exception.

Cheers, CMX

[whopper]

Interesting.

I have heard that they are installing CCTV at the entrances but they will be keeping the "security" guards, certainly the night patrols.

The cleaning of the roadway in front of one's property has been the responsibility of the householders for some time now, the general cleaning of fallen leaves etc not outside residences is still done by the estate.

Yes, the owner is seeking to sell his property (for about 2 years now), no he is not moving out of the estate. It is simply that the house is far too big for just him and his wife and he has used other accommodation for some time now.

So before we organise a petition and decide on what colour of shirts would be appropriate for the protesters perhaps check the sources and confirm exactly what is happening?

I hope you are correct. I live opposite one of the guard shacks and speak daily. The security guards don't know anything about it according to the wife.

[Sparkles]

While driving through the front entrance today my wife and I noticed 2 CCTV cameras mounted high up on the archway. We havn't noticed them before. While at the pool today a lady who works for the estate ,but obviously has no authority, said security staff will be staying but the cameras were installed as there have recently been at least 2 break ins .Only way to get the real story is to talk to the Management.Suggest we can PM each other maybe for an informal chat before marching en masse.

[DavidOxon]

Here's hoping Sparkles!

I just went and checked and waved at the cameras

the security guard was there and seemed cheery enough.

Maybe my source (who got her info from someone in the office)

was slightly mis-informed,

what to do?

I certainly agree with Dustoff that a residents representation would be a good way to go,

not just for this but for other things, but I think we'd need a Thai front person, as I don't think

Farang point's of view ore particularly valued by the management!

D

Edited January 28, 2010 by DavidOxon

[Thailand]

I believe there is a residents committee, why not try that route if you have a problem.

The cameras have now been up for 4 days, the guards are still here, what's to complain about?

[whopper]

Wife just spoke with security guard. He is under the impression that his job is safe and is not worried.

[hml367]

I'm sure glad no body (as far as I know) went to complain.

Contrary to some beliefs, using Western style complaint mechanisms DOES NOT influence people in Thailand the same way as it does in a Western country. In my opinion, it, in fact, provides the opposite effect of what is desired.

MSPain

Edited January 29, 2010 by hml367

[chiangmaiexpat]

I believe there is a residents committee, why not try that route if you have a problem.

Give it a try.

My experience with residence committees in Thailand is awful. Most of them are incapable of managing their property in any sensible manner. Most of them will inevitably splinter into factions with different goals and interests. There will be a group of sponging cheapskates that never pay maintenance fees and slip their garbage into the neighbour's rubbish bin at nighttime. There will be a group of house wifes with too much leisure time that keeps bothering residents with irrelevant "newsletters" and donation requests. There will be the committee leaders who use funds exclusively to improve the public areas around their own properties. Most of the residents, however, will be completely indifferent and complain in private rather than taking any active step.

Cheers, CMX

[DavidOxon]

Hi Guys . .

after talking with the staff last night

it seems that the security guards are staying which is a relief.

My initial information wasn't correct so I apologise if I've cause any distress!

THOUGH! from what I see, it seems that an increase in the monthly charge by

1 baht per wah each seems a little steep to pay for 2 cameras!

that's over 4000 baht a year for me, and I'm sure I saw them in Amorn

for not that much more than that each, and there's over 500 properties here!

If you average it out to 100 wah per property, then

they're asking for 6 million baht a year! Seems a little on the steep side for a couple of cameras!!

David

[Ulysses G.]

I'm not saying that they are not overcharging at 6 million baht, but I'm sure that you know that you need a computer or VDO recorder and at least one monitor as well as the cameras.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Thailand]

It's probably the guards that need an apology having had a number of Farangs or their spouses asking if they knew they were loosing their jobs- must have gone down well.

There are new estate charges, not been changed for a number of years I believe?

Under 60 talang wah from 300 to 360baht

61-100 -add 1 baht per talang wah: so 61 tw =361 , 100 tw = 400baht

100tw up is 0.5baht per tw.

This is from the office where I simply went and asked what was happening- easy is it not?

[Asmerom]

My initial information wasn't correct so I apologise if I've cause any distress!

that's over 4000 baht a year for me,

David

4 acres ! That's a big plot you've got there.

[DavidOxon]

My initial information wasn't correct so I apologise if I've cause any distress!

that's over 4000 baht a year for me,

David

4 acres ! That's a big plot you've got there.

no no, 4000 baht a year / 12 months is 333 baht a month . . . less than 60 wah at the new rates!

My rate will go up by 25.5 baht a month it I've done my maths correctly . . .

so therefore I must have ? wah?

Smarties for the correct answer

David

[Asmerom]

no no, 4000 baht a year / 12 months is 333 baht a month . . . less than 60 wah at the new rates!

My rate will go up by 25.5 baht a month it I've done my maths correctly . . .

so therefore I must have ? wah?

Smarties for the correct answer

David

Well, I'm really struggling with this one; addition, division and multiplication at 6 in the morning--my head hurts-- and only smarties ; No liquorice allsorts? I think this sum requires "fuzzy logic" and my talented washing machine could probably knock it off within a couple of hours,but its busy at the moment. It baffles me.

Its going up by one baht per month per talang wah--so you must have 25.5 talang wah !! But you previously said its going up by 333 baht per month!! That's 333 talang wah!!

OK. I give up. No smarties. Next time please set easier sums.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Asmerom

[DavidOxon]

sorry . . . trick question!

as a farang of course, I have no talang wah whatsoever!

(And sadly no smarties either!)

Have good day

David