Who said anything about 'banning" them from flying? He was advocating doing a careful search of them and their belongings instead of wasting time searching everybody on the plane simply to be PC.

That would be like double checking every white male that enters the middle east while giving all others a free pass or not wasting their time as you say.

How many white men have blown up civilian airliners that they were passengers on lately?

I think terrorists groups work hard to recruit people of non-Arab appearance. The Lockerbie bombing wasn't carried out by Arab men, but certainly instigated by them.

I'm not going to google it but, wasn't the Lockerbie flight blown up by a bag that was checked through by someone who never got on the plane?

I've been on a number of flights where Arabs have received "preferential" treatment from Airline security, most recently I saw a man question at length by Australian Federal police in the Aira Asia lounge at KL before a flight to Melbourne. I've seen a tent set up in a departure lounge so Arab women in burkhas could be strip searched by female security guards.

I was on a flight leaving from Vienna in early 2002 and there was someone in front of me that was worthy of "preferential treatment". They took him out of line as well as the three people in front and behind him. I just assumed it was so that he wouldn't feel singled out.

All this screening wouldn't be necessary if they just went ahead and did the sane thing and profiled people instead of being afraid to appear politically incorrect.

Why is profiling the "sane thing"? How good can profiling be? How many harmless people would fit the profile, and more importantly, how many actual terrorists would fall outside of the profile criteria?

Not sane at all, in my view because the amount of information to make a reliable profile is not available.

Well, for those of us who don't look like the type that would have to worry about being profiled it's a great idea.

Wow...such short-sightedness. Such extreme arrogant selfishness too. So you assume that if "you don't look the type", then it's ok to board the plane without being scanned or searched.

Ridiculous idea. That's the kind of idea Dubbya would think up....and we all know his level of intelligence.

What did the Xmas day undie bomber look like?

No response koheesti?

I do not see your connection with Middle Eastern-looking men and the Undie Bomber.

The Xmas bomber did not look Middle Eastern. If you made the profiling to take in him, you'd also take in Obama and my dad.

As Flying has said....if he had been scanned, he may have been caught....profiling by appearances is absolutely insufficient.

You don't need to look Middle Eastern. The name "Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab" is enough.

Profiling may not be perfect, but it isn't accurate to say that it is "absolutely insufficient".

Cat Stevens has been accused of raising money for Islamic terrorists and delivering cash to Hamas. He also made remarks that suggested he agreed that Salman Rushdie deserved punishment after a fatwa was issued against him by Muslims. If there is any truth to any of it, he got exactly what he deserved.

hmmm so that is what it takes then? Accusations & if proved then the punishment already administered was justified?

Is it a secret that some Arabs have black skin? Govenment officials might also put African Muslims on the search list if they felt that there is enough of a threat.

You don't need to look Middle Eastern. The name "Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab" is enough.

Profiling may not be perfect, but it isn't accurate to say that it is "absolutely insufficient".

So if they change their names to Tom Jones....?

How many white men have blown up civilian airliners that they were passengers on lately?

ummm your right the civilians they blow up cannot afford to fly & many dont even have a camel

I think terrorists groups work hard to recruit people of non-Arab appearance. The Lockerbie bombing wasn't carried out by Arab men, but certainly instigated by them.

I'm not going to google it but, wasn't the Lockerbie flight blown up by a bag that was checked through by someone who never got on the plane?

I've been on a number of flights where Arabs have received "preferential" treatment from Airline security, most recently I saw a man question at length by Australian Federal police in the Aira Asia lounge at KL before a flight to Melbourne. I've seen a tent set up in a departure lounge so Arab women in burkhas could be strip searched by female security guards.

I was on a flight leaving from Vienna in early 2002 and there was someone in front of me that was worthy of "preferential treatment". They took him out of line as well as the three people in front and behind him. I just assumed it was so that he wouldn't feel singled out.

I may be mistaken, I thought they conned a couple of American girls into carrying the bag on. I'll check...

Dunno, can't find anything positive. I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong, it does happen on rare occasions.

I'm sure it has happened elsewhere though.

Cat Stevens has been accused of raising money for Islamic terrorists and delivering cash to Hamas. He also made remarks that suggested he agreed that Salman Rushdie deserved punishment after a fatwa was issued against him by Muslims. If there is any truth to any of it, he got exactly what he deserved.

hmmm so that is what it takes then? Accusations & if proved then the punishment already administered was justified?

People are barred from entering other countries every day for less reason. It is not a right to enter - unless you are a citizen. It is a privilege. If someone is too much of a risk, they are not allowed.

You don't need to look Middle Eastern. The name "Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab" is enough.

Profiling may not be perfect, but it isn't accurate to say that it is "absolutely insufficient".

So if they change their names to Tom Jones....?

Sadly, yeah. Like I said, nothing is perfect.

How is it the Israelis are so good at keeping their planes safe? Do they ban liquids and do full body scans? Or do they profile the terrorists?

it does happen on rare occasions.

That is the point. At this point in time, terrorism can't be stopped completely, but if it can be cut by 75%, that is still a big accomplishment. You don't waste time and resouces on unlikely subjects; you do the best that you can.

Personally I think the system in place works. You are never going to get it fool proof, because you'll have fools at all levels of any operation.

We've agreed that Arabs/Muslims get heavier security treatment, it's common-sense, turn up at an airport wearing a nightie and someone's going to want a peep under it.

What do you mean cut terrorism by 75% UG? Attacks on Western civilian targets have virtually ground to a halt now. Do you want to count what happens in Pakistan? Seems to me that they fall under the classification of civil war.

Let me be very clear. I support both full body scans and profiling.

If it saves just one airliner from going down with all souls lost, can anybody really say it is too much to do?

Most of us here fly a lot, a rough count shows I made about 20 flights last year, say two out of three were international. That what I can remember anyway, and that will be the scene for the next three or four years.

I'm certainly all for safe flying, and don't mind paying extra to assure that.

I grew up in the days when a week rarely passed without a plane hijacking; terrorist scum hijacking US planes and flying to Cuba or patriots hijacking Cuban planes and flying to the US seemed to start it all as I recall.

That is virtually impossible these days, security is too good.

The biggest problem now seems to be since 9/11, airplanes loaded with jet fuel seem to be the latest WMDs.

It isn't about some patriot wanting freedom any longer, it is about some terrorist wanting to make a point by driving the plane into a building. Chances of survivabililty have decreased accordingly, hence some passengers have taken action on their own to subdue hijackers.

I thought the first hijacking was when D. B. Cooper took the Northwest Airlines flight in 1971. I could be wrong.

The biggest problem now seems to be since 9/11, airplanes loaded with jet fuel seem to be the latest WMDs.

It isn't about some patriot wanting freedom any longer, it is about some terrorist wanting to make a point by driving the plane into a building. Chances of survivabililty have decreased accordingly, hence some passengers have taken action on their own to subdue hijackers.

I thought the first hijacking was when D. B. Cooper took the Northwest Airlines flight in 1971. I could be wrong.

Interesting reading...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

Says first "notable" hijacking was in Brazil in 1959 and the only successful hijacking of Israel's El Al was in 1968.

There was a thread a while back about single men traveling to the region being searched. Some numptys' were screaming, "Oh my god, that is profiling. What about my rights".

So a single guy traveling alone to S.E. Asia, a hub of Paedophilia, is being profiled as a potential abuser....... No shit sherlock and what about the rights of young kids to not be abused.

Similarly with the scanners. People will bitch and moan about "Oh my rights" etc. whilst seemingly forgetting about their and everybody else's rights not to be blown up by some loon on a plane. Don't blame the security people and the authorities, blame the tossers who make it necessary in the first place.

Two posts deleted, they were getting personal and not nice.

Oh come on, please. It was banter.

Aren't we grown up enough in here to be able to pass insults to the point where the offended is offended enough to complain?

Besides....my riposte to his blatant and fallacious attack on my sexuality was quite good.

The deleted posts/threads are always the best ones .

I was down at Don's Cafe eating tacos. Was it worth missing tacos for?

I was down at Don's Cafe eating tacos. Was it worth missing tacos for?

No......reading about someone's homophobia is not that interesting.

Only 3 posts before a post like that endure, well done!

Just call me 'El Smutto'

That could stick.

I do not see your connection with Middle Eastern-looking men and the Undie Bomber.

The Xmas bomber did not look Middle Eastern. If you made the profiling to take in him, you'd also take in Obama and my dad.

As Flying has said....if he had been scanned, he may have been caught....profiling by appearances is absolutely insufficient.

You don't need to look Middle Eastern. The name "Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab" is enough.

Profiling may not be perfect, but it isn't accurate to say that it is "absolutely insufficient".

Initially you wrote, "Well, for those of us who don't look like the type that would have to worry about being profiled it's a great idea.", implying that profiling relies on looks. I replyed to that (in bold above) to which you responded about the guy's name....adding an extra criterium. You then went on to ignore my complete statement (in bold above) in your usual side-step and sleight of hand to try to refute it.

You can not, with any sincerity, refute my statement: Profiling by appearances is absolutely insufficient.

Regardless of a limited profiling system that takes in names as well as appearances..... those two criteria are also absolutely insufficient as there is no guarantee that even slightly canny terrorists would ensure the profiling system is skirted by using less obvious names and appearances.

It does not take much thought to see this, but it would take an arrogant and stupid man to settle for a profiling system that could be skirted simply so that he himself does not need to be scanned or inconvenienced.

The point of checking people getting on a flight is to prevent as many problems as possible and make it more difficult for anyone to hijack a flight or smuggle explosives on board. It is probably impossible to stop every incident.

Profiling is the most time saving and cost effective way to reduce these incidents as much as it is possible without making passengers fly back naked with no belongings.

The point of checking people getting on a flight is to prevent as many problems as possible and make it more difficult for anyone to hijack a flight or smuggle explosives on board. It is probably impossible to stop every incident.

Profiling is the most time saving and cost effective way to reduce these incidents as much as it is possible without making passengers fly back naked with no belongings.

I agree.....but you miss the point. Thousands of lives are at stake, and profiling is easily circumvented by a determined hijacker. Scanning is not so easily overcome, and once the systems are in place, the time factor will just become run of the mill.