Thailand On Edge As Court Rules On Thaksin Billions

[george]

Update:

Pojaman defence insists her assets were acquired legally before Thaksin became prime minister. Therefore this part of the frozen assets should be returned to her, her lawyers say.

-- The Nation

[phuketrichard]

i just dont get it, Todays Bangkok Post features a convicted felon on the run on the cover enjoying his life.

Why do they give him such importance???

[khunjamespittman]

Update:

The court is going through the backgrounds. How shares were transferred to the children and so on.

-- The Nation

Its like Political Foreplay!!

I just want to shout "Get on with it"!!

Turn you TV's on now, your Thai listening skills are probably better now, but they are talking about the amounts.

Anyone know if a translated version will ever be made available?

[neverdie]

Its sure to be a fizzer people, the court decision will come and go and that will be it, except for more threats and properganda.

Isn't that a good thing?

I'm watching intently today but my greatest hope is that this is all a boring 'much ado about nothing' event.

Yes of course its a good thing if there is no violence. For the greater good of thais and thailand it would be good if it was all over and they could move forward, but sadly, it aint gonna happen that easily.

I have no doubt in years to come, this will be a dark period in thai history.

[neverdie]

Update: The defence arguement is being read. It seems things are moving fast

-- The Nation

George, perhaps you could place the necessary phone calls and get them to go a bit faster

[Scott]

I thought they weren't going to show it on television, only on radio.

(If it's on TV, I think I'll wait for the DVD, so I can watch it at my leisure).

[skippy]

Thai history lol

[JetsetBkk]

i just dont get it, Todays Bangkok Post features a convicted felon on the run on the cover enjoying his life.

Why do they give him such importance???

Er... because he is important and much loved by many people.

Quite simple, really.

[neverdie]

Thai history lol

Ohhh skippy, don't be like that, Thailand has lots of history, interesting reading, no shortage of wars, coups, constant changing borders and unrest with its neighbouring countries.

Certainly a bit more history than European Australia

[elcent]

the good news and the only way to go if they want to nail Thaksin is that the PM sets up a a committee to re-investigate the war on drugs killigs.

During the former investigation

The Justice Ministry had looked into the extra-judicial killing allegations and found that many claims were true.

[Mario2008]

It's on TV, but you can only hear the judges. There is no live picture from the court, only sound.

[Acharn]

His ex-wife is in a safe house in BKK ????????

What about her jailtime ?

Is it allready forgotten?

I saw her "entre' " on the thai news,she was treated as a queen !

Everyone bowing as slaves (also police and military)

Is this normal?

What jail time are you talking about? She hasn't been convicted of any wrongdoing. There was nothing wrong with her purchase of the land on Ratchadapisek. Her husband was convicted of allowing her to deal with a government agency he had authority over, even though an earlier Supreme Court ruling said he didn't have any authority over it.

Yes, it's all been forgotten.

[Who, me ?]

i just dont get it, Todays Bangkok Post features a convicted felon on the run on the cover enjoying his life.

Why do they give him such importance???

Er... because he is important and much loved by many people.

Quite simple, really.

I think that when his money will be gone, much less people will love him

[RickBradford]

The judges are currently reading out a long list of accounts and such like, right down to the satangs, so this is going to take some time.

To liven up the proceedings, TV is showing some clips of present-day Bangkok life, including a bunch of Army guys in full riot gear doing press-ups. Is somebody anticipating trouble, I wonder?

Edited February 26, 2010 by RickBradford

[Moonrakers]

She hasn't been convicted of any wrongdoing. 

You mean asides from her conviction for tax evasion?

[rixalex]

i just dont get it, Todays Bangkok Post features a convicted felon on the run on the cover enjoying his life.

Why do they give him such importance???

Er... because he is important and much loved by many people.

Quite simple, really.

What's also simple is that no amount of adoration changes a guilty verdict or a conviction. Some people seem to think it does...

[george]

Timeline update:

1.30 pm: Judges start reading the verdict by outlining the prosecution case

The high court begins by outlining the prosecution argument detailing Thaksin's equity structure in Shin Corp. The prosecution contends equity structure was designed to conceal true ownership.

The next issue is the conversion of telecom concession fees into excise charges to favour the family-controlled Shin Corp.

The other prosecution point is the adjustment of the revenue sharing agreement on pre-paid mobile phone services to benefit Advanced Information Service.

The prosecution contends Thaksin's interference in regulating the telecom industry to benefit his family-controlled telecom group, boosting its market valuation.

The prosecution outlines Thaksin's involvement to fix the concession contract on satellite communications. Because of his meddling, ThaiCom 4, a designated satellite for back-up communications, was cancelled and replaced by the launching of IPStar which allows the operator to start the satellite service for Internet instead of fulfilling the original ageement on satellite communications.

The prosection contends Thaksin's inference in satellite communications has inflicted Bt4 billion damage to the state and left a long-lasting impact on the country's communications security.

The prosecution contends Thaksin's involvement to grant Exim Bank loans to Burma in order to benefit the telecom and satellite businesses of his family business empire. Under Thaksin's instruction, the loans were increased from Bt3 billion to Bt4 billion.

The prosecution contends Thaksin's involvement in increasing the equity cap on the telecom business to pave way for him and his family to sell their Shin Corp stakes to a foreign buyer.

The Asset Examination Committee has frozen Bt66 billion of Bt76 billion sought as compensation to damage caused by conflict-of-interest decisions.

2.50 pm: Judges begins to outline the defence arguments.

The defence contends Thaksin filed his asset statements as prescribed by the anti-graft law.

The defence contends Thaksin openly transferred his equity stakes to his children before assuming office.

The defence contends the AEC was biased in trying to fault Thaksin. The AEC conducted iits investigation based on expediency and not prescribed procedures. For example, the AEC claimed the shares belonging to Thaksin's children when it ruled on tax liability. But it insisted Thaksin had full control of the shares when it wanted to prosecute him for abuse of power and conflict of interest.

In rebutting charges related to telecom business, the defence contends Thaksin's leadership following precribed procedures and implementing all policies sanctioned by the laws.

The defence contends the wealth of Thaksin and family was earned before assuming office.

The defence contends the wealth distributed from Thaksin to his children was genuine and not a scam for asset concealment.

--

To sum it up, prosecution says Thaksin used nominees to hide assets and kept pulling the strings, using state power to benefit the business

[JetsetBkk]

i just dont get it, Todays Bangkok Post features a convicted felon on the run on the cover enjoying his life.

Why do they give him such importance???

Er... because he is important and much loved by many people.

Quite simple, really.

I think that when his money will be gone, much less people will love him

Definitely!

[rayw]

Its sure to be a fizzer people, the court decision will come and go and that will be it, except for more threats and properganda.

Isn't that a good thing?

I'm watching intently today but my greatest hope is that this is all a boring 'much ado about nothing' event.

Many questions to be asked about how Takskin managed to acquire so vast a wealth. Someone earlier made a comparison with the wealth acquired by great entrepreneurs such as Gates and Walton. With both of these you can see their contribution and how their luck, skill, vision or whatever brought them enormous wealth. With Taskin it is difficult to see how this was acquired especially as it all comes from the period when he was otherwise engaged - ie as a politician. Those few people here who make comments in support of him could do well to look no further than people like the Marcos, Shah of Iran, Idi Ami and so on. All gained huge wealth by manipulating national assets, manipulating the rule of law and so on. And all ignored the rights of others. Here we have a man and a family who were so greedy that they considered all their actions to be above the law. They have no shame, no face.

When people steal the wealth of a country in this way, they trample on the human rights of those people at the bottom of the greasy pole - yes those people who grow the rice, kill the chickens and do the work that enables the rest of us to eat and live. Is it really OK to acquire the wealth of a small nation while looking people in the eye and telling them that you are on their side? The poor of the villages - who support T because they once received 500 baht - do themselves a disservice by believing that the return of Thaksin, with his ill-gotten gains would equate to more riches (500b) and democracy. There is nothing more undemocratic than buying votes or ignoring the rule of law or running the nation as if it was your personal fiefdom.

Thaksin has performed a simple sleight of hand with a gullible population believing that the tricks were real - ie that Thanksin really cared about them. It is clear that all he cared about was himself and now he has - unbelievably - created the greatest con trick of all time by making people fight for 'his' wealth that he stole in the first place! Is this Robin Hood in reverse?

He has used every trick in the book to try to gain the hearts and minds of the population. Can you imagine a western politician saying some of the things that Thaksin has said? They would be too embarrased. But this man appears to have no shame at all. He really is the original snake oil salesman with no morals, no shame and, I must say, very little intellect.

Such a great posting, and says it all. Needs translating into Thai so all those misguided Red shirts can read it and absorb the truth in what it says. Thaksin was a confidence trickster and one many of us saw through his guise years ago. I am quite honestly amazed at how so many of the very people who are kept poor because of his and actions and those of other corrupt scum, are still are fighting his corner to stop him losing his personal (yes PERSONAL) primarily ill gotten wealth. I hope they confiscate all of it with the proviso that if he returns within 3 months to serve his jail sentence and honestly stand up like a man to face the other charges being made, then he will get back his initial pre political life wealth if indeed there is any of that and the state retain all he corruptly made whilst in a position of political power. We will know very soon what the answer will be at last.

Edited February 26, 2010 by rayw

[elcent]

any statistics of how much witchcraft and witches were employed to counter the procedures? As far as I remember, Thaksin employed quite a few whilst in Cambodia.

[skippy]

Timeline update:

1.30 pm: Judges start reading the verdict by outlining the prosecution case

The high court begins by outlining the prosecution argument detailing Thaksin's equity structure in Shin Corp. The prosecution contends equity structure was designed to conceal true ownership.

The next issue is the conversion of telecom concession fees into excise charges to favour the family-controlled Shin Corp.

The other prosecution point is the adjustment of the revenue sharing agreement on pre-paid mobile phone services to benefit Advanced Information Service.

The prosecution contends Thaksin's interference in regulating the telecom industry to benefit his family-controlled telecom group, boosting its market valuation.

The prosecution outlines Thaksin's involvement to fix the concession contract on satellite communications. Because of his meddling, ThaiCom 4, a designated satellite for back-up communications, was cancelled and replaced by the launching of IPStar which allows the operator to start the satellite service for Internet instead of fulfilling the original ageement on satellite communications.

The prosection contends Thaksin's inference in satellite communications has inflicted Bt4 billion damage to the state and left a long-lasting impact on the country's communications security.

The prosecution contends Thaksin's involvement to grant Exim Bank loans to Burma in order to benefit the telecom and satellite businesses of his family business empire. Under Thaksin's instruction, the loans were increased from Bt3 billion to Bt4 billion.

The prosecution contends Thaksin's involvement in increasing the equity cap on the telecom business to pave way for him and his family to sell their Shin Corp stakes to a foreign buyer.

The Asset Examination Committee has frozen Bt66 billion of Bt76 billion sought as compensation to damage caused by conflict-of-interest decisions.

2.50 pm: Judges begins to outline the defence arguments.

The defence contends Thaksin filed his asset statements as prescribed by the anti-graft law.

The defence contends Thaksin openly transferred his equity stakes to his children before assuming office.

The defence contends the AEC was biased in trying to fault Thaksin. The AEC conducted iits investigation based on expediency and not prescribed procedures. For example, the AEC claimed the shares belonging to Thaksin's children when it ruled on tax liability. But it insisted Thaksin had full control of the shares when it wanted to prosecute him for abuse of power and conflict of interest.

In rebutting charges related to telecom business, the defence contends Thaksin's leadership following precribed procedures and implementing all policies sanctioned by the laws.

The defence contends the wealth of Thaksin and family was earned before assuming office.

The defence contends the wealth distributed from Thaksin to his children was genuine and not a scam for asset concealment.

--

To sum it up, prosecution says Thaksin used nominees to hide assets and kept pulling the strings, using state power to benefit the business

You cannot have it both ways George. Either state from the Nation or your own version but not together.

[khunjamespittman]

Its sure to be a fizzer people, the court decision will come and go and that will be it, except for more threats and properganda.

Isn't that a good thing?

I'm watching intently today but my greatest hope is that this is all a boring 'much ado about nothing' event.

Many questions to be asked about how Takskin managed to acquire so vast a wealth. Someone earlier made a comparison with the wealth acquired by great entrepreneurs such as Gates and Walton. With both of these you can see their contribution and how their luck, skill, vision or whatever brought them enormous wealth. With Taskin it is difficult to see how this was acquired especially as it all comes from the period when he was otherwise engaged - ie as a politician. Those few people here who make comments in support of him could do well to look no further than people like the Marcos, Shah of Iran, Idi Ami and so on. All gained huge wealth by manipulating national assets, manipulating the rule of law and so on. And all ignored the rights of others. Here we have a man and a family who were so greedy that they considered all their actions to be above the law. They have no shame, no face.

When people steal the wealth of a country in this way, they trample on the human rights of those people at the bottom of the greasy pole - yes those people who grow the rice, kill the chickens and do the work that enables the rest of us to eat and live. Is it really OK to acquire the wealth of a small nation while looking people in the eye and telling them that you are on their side? The poor of the villages - who support T because they once received 500 baht - do themselves a disservice by believing that the return of Thaksin, with his ill-gotten gains would equate to more riches (500b) and democracy. There is nothing more undemocratic than buying votes or ignoring the rule of law or running the nation as if it was your personal fiefdom.

Thaksin has performed a simple sleight of hand with a gullible population believing that the tricks were real - ie that Thanksin really cared about them. It is clear that all he cared about was himself and now he has - unbelievably - created the greatest con trick of all time by making people fight for 'his' wealth that he stole in the first place! Is this Robin Hood in reverse?

He has used every trick in the book to try to gain the hearts and minds of the population. Can you imagine a western politician saying some of the things that Thaksin has said? They would be too embarrased. But this man appears to have no shame at all. He really is the original snake oil salesman with no morals, no shame and, I must say, very little intellect.

Whoa! Just a minute please. Your are talking about Shin Corp. This was a very risky business at the time. If they had lost a couple bird they would have burned through the 5 Mil Baht Thaksin had borrowed. If you have technology acumen at all you would know that was a very real possibility and a high probability for a first time communications investor. These were the first satellites owned from within Thailand. Before this the Thai military had to lease space on foreign owned satellites. At the time the military heralded him for providing the secure satellite that the miltary need to protect Thailand.If you compare that to Bill Gates you will see that Gates bartered with a DOS program that he did not own. He copied in a sense the Apple graphics interface building Windows. Nothing so special about that. I supposed that you would insist the Bill Gates give back all his microsoft earning back because of the shady DOS deal that he started with. Sam Walton is a different case. He recognized the market niche that existed for small rural communities and bet the bank that he could contain costs and make it profitable.

Regarding the Thaksin plan to assist poor Thais. I believe you've been asleep for the last 1-2 years. I believe that there are far grander plans to attract the poor Thais now being proposed.

In conclusion I must say Your post has so much misinformation it would be laughable if any intelligent person would swallow it. The one thing that clearly comes out though is your rabid hatred for Mr. Thaksin. For that I feel very sorry for you.

I suggest that you be come more informed and not repeat so many things that you obviously had heard for other equally uninformed people and have so little understanding of.

[phuketrichard]

i just dont get it, Todays Bangkok Post features a convicted felon on the run on the cover enjoying his life.

Why do they give him such importance???

Er... because he is important and much loved by many people.

Quite simple, really.

What's also simple is that no amount of adoration changes a guilty verdict or a conviction. Some people seem to think it does...

TRUE:

thais look upon the powerful and rich as above the law and they all wish to be like him,

Rob, cheat, steal and then run away.

Twisted sense of who to look up to. Thai's truly need a role model

[ferd54]

But this man appears to have no shame at all. He really is the original snake oil salesman with no morals, no shame and, I must say, very little intellect.

All may be true, but he has succeeded in finally getting the poor mobilized. I don't care one whit about Thaksin, but I hope the so-called peasants continue to press their case. The long-term status quo is equally corrupt and at the top of systemic malfeasance. They've had centuries amassing fine fortunes.

Edited February 26, 2010 by ferd54

[NinjaGladiator]

There's some crap speeled on this thread.

If a drug dealer gets caught, do they simply get taxed on the $10m found in off-shore accounts, or is the entire amount confiscated? Now there is a comparison for Taksin's wealth and that of his entire family, his dumb bitch daughter was working in McDs on a publicity stunt, so how come she can claim to have fairly earned her billions.

Lets see now...

Purchased loads of land around svanipumi at marsh land prices, and then resold it to his government at a vastly over-rated price, knowing all along it was gonna be the sight for the new airport.

Promised every poor villager, that they would have electric to their homes, fair-play he did it, investing millions of tax payers money to build the grid and supply the houses then he privatized it and guess who bought most of the shares, since then electric prices have quadrupled in 8yrs.

He's not the only one at this game they're all doing it, it's how the rich get rich in Thailand, but while you are prime-minister, your taking the pi$$, and his wealth has increased 6 fold since taking office, obviously he can account for a small portion, after all he was on a salary, but outside of this small portion, it is corrupt money and should be confiscated.

Are you all aware of the latest...

gasohol production is in the hands of the elite and wealthy, with their power, they wanted to ban all regular fuel from the forecourts, so everybody has buy gasohol, the car manufacturers were up in arms, saying that it's not good for their engines, the elite and wealthy tried to silence them with higher import taxes, when that didn't work, they stuck a levy on the normal benzine at the forecourt, so much that you now find some garages will no longer sell regular fuels. Gasohol produces no go power for your car, it's a joke it's like diluting the fuel, only you can't use water so they manufacture alcohol for the job, you will find with a 10% mixture, your car goes 10% slower, and instead of 10l per 100km, you'll find yourself burning 11l to go the same distance.

[JetsetBkk]

Many questions to be asked about how Takskin managed to acquire so vast a wealth <snip> ...

Yes. And all the unusually wealthy army generals got all their money from their pay-packets. Right?

[h90]

The judges are currently reading out a long list of accounts and such like, right down to the satangs, so this is going to take some time.

To liven up the proceedings, TV is showing some clips of present-day Bangkok life, including a bunch of Army guys in full riot gear doing press-ups. Is somebody anticipating trouble, I wonder?

For people who are not that long in Thailand.

When the channels start to play music and run a slide show with HM the King, than a coup is happening.....

[Wolfie]

Some off-topic posts have been removed - please keep this thread on-topic - thanks!

[lopburi3]

Please keep the pub humor in that forum - several posts have been removed. Thanks.

[StevieH]

nipping into downtown chiang mai in a minute so will report back in a bit. assuming i get back in one piece of course.

That's going to be uneventful. If you'd like to return with some meaningful observations, head to the Grand Warorot hotel. It's on Rattanakosin Road near Rama IX Bridge on the West side of the river.

aye, i didn't make it over that side. there was nothing happening around tha pae gate, though when leaving my place i was passed by a convoy of ten to fifteen pickup trucks all carrying red-shirted folk south along irrigation canal road. they all seemed in very good spirits and were all flying both thailand and royal flags from the back of their pickups.