Bangkok Residents Become Hostages To Red-Shirt Anarchy

[Valentine]

Levelhead gives us a clear understanding of exactly why these demonstrations are taking place.

A massive and sustained propaganda war of lies, half-truths, hyperbole, and sprinkled with a few facts, has been waged for over a year in nearly every northern/northeastern village. People have been whipped into a frenzy and the truth no longer matters.

Not just a year, the Yellow side have been spreading the lies and half truths since before the coup. The people in the North and North-East have got sick of the lies and half truths and hyperbole spread by the Yellows since 2005.

They see the truth every day and are fed up of the Yellows control of the media and of power.

They want Democracy back.

Gordon Brown did it, you can too Abhisit, dissolve the House and call an election in a month !!

It has been going on since time immemorial as the plebs continuously get used & abused. It will only improve when you have a well educated & informed electorate who have access to all sides of the story & not have it stuffed down their throats by the local & national vested interests. Until then forget about having a fair election.

[anotherpeter]

Levelhead gives us a clear understanding of exactly why these demonstrations are taking place.

A massive and sustained propaganda war of lies, half-truths, hyperbole, and sprinkled with a few facts, has been waged for over a year in nearly every northern/northeastern village. People have been whipped into a frenzy and the truth no longer matters.

Not just a year, the Yellow side have been spreading the lies and half truths since before the coup. The people in the North and North-East have got sick of the lies and half truths and hyperbole spread by the Yellows since 2005.

They see the truth every day and are fed up of the Yellows control of the media and of power.

They want Democracy back.

Gordon Brown did it, you can too Abhisit, dissolve the House and call an election in a month !!

Clear??

Yes. You have only been watching Peoples TV. That is the "Truth" that most of the people in the N/NE are seeing everyday.

Edited April 7, 2010 by anotherpeter

[KireB]

They see the truth every day and are fed up of the Yellows control of the media and of power.

They want Democracy back.

Gordon Brown did it, you can too Abhisit, dissolve the House and call an election in a month !!

How dare you compare England and Thailand?

[animatic]

More fantasy land comments.

The propaganda brigade is out in force as it always is

when 'Reds March in the Streets', on Thaksins command.

...The government said it would act if needed to end the protests, but reiterated that it wanted a peaceful resolution to the standoff.

"If it is inevitable, we will act," said Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who is in charge of security....

It seems the reds are intent on making it inevitable.

But after their sustained mob tactics,

and sustained attempts to CAUSE a violent incident,

most of the 'watching' world will not be surprised if it does happen,

but will also clearly see WHO has initiated their own victimhood.

Edited April 7, 2010 by animatic

[toybits]

Funny comment coming from a poster with the Irish flag as his avatar...

They see the truth every day and are fed up of the Yellows control of the media and of power.

They want Democracy back.

Gordon Brown did it, you can too Abhisit, dissolve the House and call an election in a month !!

How dare you compare England and Thailand?

[valerian]

Good post . My gf is from nearby Khorat (small village) and of course pro Thaksin 100%.

The dems REALLY need to get their story out .

What story would that be ?

Have borrowed money and put Thailand into debt but nobody knows where the money went ? Have committed electon fraud and got away with a Yellow card only (thanks elite) ? Have put the eilte first and the people and democracy in second place ? Do not care about the concerns of the majority of the Thai population ? Are happy to be put into power by the elite when the people never elected them to power ? Have likely received illegal donations and should be dissolved but are managing to keep that under wraps and prevent any resolution being made on the case ?

The truth of the matter is the last elections were held under the control of the coup appointed government. Massive amounts of money were spent "educating" the PPP area's in why they should not vote PPP it seems. Massive amounts of intelligence gathering was done on all PPP candidates, where they went, who they spoke to, what they did etc..

And yet, even under those conditions PPP won.

If elections were held now for sure PPP would win with a big majority, which is why the "appointed and not elected" present government do not want elections.

Follow the UK example, call an election in a month and dissolve the House.

Why be a part of a discussion if your only aim is to flame?

[hammered]

Both yellow and red use single source information control. It is a classic indoctrination technoque. When you are at a rally or one of their schools you are pumped with what they want you to believe, and there is no other source of information to provide balance. Cults use it too. It is effective.

[animatic]

Both yellow and red use single source information control. It is a classic indoctrination technique. When you are at a rally or one of their schools you are pumped with what they want you to believe, and there is no other source of information to provide balance. Cults use it too. It is effective.

Cults is a perfect description of this too.

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

And they use peer pressure and going along with the crowd 'group-think',

to continuously reinforce their chosen thought patterns.

Brain washing on the group level.

We know how well THAT worked in China...

[hammered]

Both yellow and red use single source information control. It is a classic indoctrination technique. When you are at a rally or one of their schools you are pumped with what they want you to believe, and there is no other source of information to provide balance. Cults use it too. It is effective.

Cults is a perfect description of this too.

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

And they use peer pressure and going along with the crowd 'group-think',

to continuously reinforce their chosen thought patterns.

Brain washing on the group level.

We know how well THAT worked in China...

The red schools were set up by Maoists along Maoist lines. Take people who are oppressed and give them the rhetoric and anger and....... What they did is classic indoctrination but those who allowed the inequalities in scoiety to get to the extreme where it would work created the conditions.

[jsjohninbkk]

THE NATION: Red leaders trying 2restrain some protesters trying to push or climb their way into parliament. "Don't u break the law", the leaders shout

Haven't they shown a complete disregard for the laws already? Is this just another thing were the leaders will change their mind in a few minutes or are they actually starting to realize that they have lost a great deal of their support and a large and growing segment of the population wanting to see them removed regardless if it takes might to do it.

[animatic]

Both yellow and red use single source information control. It is a classic indoctrination technique. When you are at a rally or one of their schools you are pumped with what they want you to believe, and there is no other source of information to provide balance. Cults use it too. It is effective.

Cults is a perfect description of this too.

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

And they use peer pressure and going along with the crowd 'group-think',

to continuously reinforce their chosen thought patterns.

Brain washing on the group level.

We know how well THAT worked in China...

The red schools were set up by Maoists along Maoist lines. Take people who are oppressed and give them the rhetoric and anger and....... What they did is classic indoctrination but those who allowed the inequalities in scoiety to get to the extreme where it would work created the conditions.

Yep, a Total Fekin' Wengjob.

[hammered]

Does anyone have a prediction on how this will all end? It is beyond me to figure out. And it looks like a lot at the top of things arent really sure either. Conditions for soemone to make a horrible mistake are there.

[quiksilva]

THE NATION: Red leaders trying 2restrain some protesters trying to push or climb their way into parliament. "Don't u break the law", the leaders shout

Haven't they shown a complete disregard for the laws already? Is this just another thing were the leaders will change their mind in a few minutes or are they actually starting to realize that they have lost a great deal of their support and a large and growing segment of the population wanting to see them removed regardless if it takes might to do it.

Its called plausible deniability.

The leaders think that if they say "Don't you break the law" on stage, then they can also denounce responsibility for what their mob does.

[Insight]

Full blown Wacky Racers today. Shutting down DTV (or whatever its called) could be the trigger, but is justified if they've broadcasted that manipulated Abhisit recording.

[rainman]

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

I love reading your daily conspiracy theories.

[otherstuff1957]

Both sides are waiting for the other to make a mistake. For the Reds, storming parliament or getting caught with grenades would be a mistake. For the Govt. doing anything that would start a riot, like trying to arrest the Red leaders, would be a mistake.

It's imperative for both sides to get the moral high ground. The side that gets violent first, will probably lose the next elections. So, the Reds are doing everything they can to provoke the army/police, while the Govt, is trying to wear down the protesters without using force.

However, I think that the breaking point is close. Both sides are walking along a cliff edge and I'm afraid that one side or the other will soon fall off.

[anotherpeter]

Both yellow and red use single source information control. It is a classic indoctrination technique. When you are at a rally or one of their schools you are pumped with what they want you to believe, and there is no other source of information to provide balance. Cults use it too. It is effective.

Cults is a perfect description of this too.

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

And they use peer pressure and going along with the crowd 'group-think',

to continuously reinforce their chosen thought patterns.

Brain washing on the group level.

We know how well THAT worked in China...

What do they actually call the "red acadamies" up north? What is their Thai (translated to English) name?

[tallfarang]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I just drove past Abhisit's residence, lots of razor wire, and parades of fully kitted riot police lining the soi. They said that the Red's didn't make plans to go there, but there had to be about 500 riot cops there.

[hammered]

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

I love reading your daily conspiracy theories.

The red schools, which are indoctrination camps, have had an effect. However, those that created the conditions of alienation from opportunity and massive inequality, need to take the blame for people being so receptive. If the wealth had been spread around a bit more and acess to quality education and opportunity been more available a bunch of indoctrination just doesnt work so well.

Anyway the camps have a (minority?) effect although the reds have attracted supporters from other arenas too for a variety of reasons.

[blaze]

Both yellow and red use single source information control. It is a classic indoctrination technique. When you are at a rally or one of their schools you are pumped with what they want you to believe, and there is no other source of information to provide balance. Cults use it too. It is effective.

Cults is a perfect description of this too.

Governments such as Red China during the Cultural Revolution

used 'schools' to train the country folk to think like they wanted them to think.

Same as the 'Red Academies' in the N. NE. Purely indoctrination camps.

And they use peer pressure and going along with the crowd 'group-think',

to continuously reinforce their chosen thought patterns.

Brain washing on the group level.

We know how well THAT worked in China...

It's also worked well in Thailand over the last century where the indocrtination academies are referred to as the public education system.

[Insight]

Remnants of reds have entered Parliament, reportedly led by Arisman.

C'mon Abhisit, <deleted>...

[way2muchcoffee]

Does anyone have a prediction on how this will all end? It is beyond me to figure out. And it looks like a lot at the top of things arent really sure either. Conditions for soemone to make a horrible mistake are there.

I don't think there is an acceptable solution. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1) The redshirts could halt their demonstrations or at least move them to a legal location and show respect for the law. This would make their 'so-called' democracy protests legitimate. As of now their actions have made them illegitimate. They have resorted to criminal behavior. The redshirts are destroying the democracy that that seem to espouse, and they don't seem to mind if they take down the country along the way. This is ironic because elections are democratic, but demanding them mid-term after their guys were kicked out for anti-democratic vote buying is decidedly undemocratic. I believe that they won't stop, the rhetoric is too strong, they have won several psychological wars in recent days and they have the momentum.

2) The government cannot go in and shut the demonstrations down. The demonstrations would only resume the following day and would be coupled with more bombs and other methods of 'guerrilla warfare' both in Bangkok and in the provinces. A riot would surely ensue and the resulting loss of life and damage to property would be immense and unacceptable.

3) The government cannot dissolve the house and call for elections under these circumstances. The precedent it would set will set Thailand back years. The counter-demonstrations from the PAD will only continue the problems, thus ensuring a cycle of violence and mob rule for the foreseeable future.

4) The government could just wait them out, but who knows how long this could go on. The anarchy and lawlessness in the streets is intolerable to any civilized society. The citizens of Bangkok will likely rise up. You could see bombings of redshirt demonstrations, similar to the bombings of the PAD encampments. This will be disastrous if it happens. I don't have much hope that these demonstrations will just fizzle.

5) The UDD hasn't negotiated in good faith. They have not offered realistic compromise to their demands. For now negotiation seems to be off the table. I have hope that after some time venting their frustrations on the citizens of Bangkok the redshirts may be amenable to further negotiation.

In short, I don't see any positive solutions to this crisis that will be acceptable to the various players.

Edited April 7, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[blaze]

Remnants of reds have entered Parliament, reportedly led by Arisman.

C'mon Abhisit, <deleted>...

You tell 'em insight- and then when the upcountry town halls go up in flames- when the real stih hits the fan--- then what?

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Would not do the reds any favour if there is voilence AGAIN this songkran. I don't understand what they intend to achieve? The government is doing its best to allow peaceful protest, indulgent Bangkok residents are getting more frustrated and angry, the economy is affected, what is next? If they are voilent, they lose. If they continue to push and don't get the reaction back from the government, they lose. So what are they hoping for? I was quite supportive of their efforts at the beginning, thinking that they were going to raise awareness of their plight and then go home, opening dialogue and understanding for the coming election. I even watched red TV to try to understand their point of view, but when red TV just spewed hatred, minute after minute, day after day, when it told blatant lies, when they instigated voilence by rabble rousing rhetoric, it got too much. Though I haven't watched yellow TV since 2006, I have since switched (still of course biased and full of propaganda, but at least palatable and stress-free). At this point, it is seriously enough. Go home.

[rainman]

Remnants of reds have entered Parliament, reportedly led by Arisman.

C'mon Abhisit, <deleted>...

It's clear that the police aren't following Abhisit's orders. They've opened Silom and the others streets when the red shirts arrived. And now they cleared the way when the red shirts arrived at Parliament.

[rainman]

I don't understand what they intend to achieve?

I think it's something along the lines of a house dissolution?

[rainman]

I don't think there is an acceptable solution. Here are the possibilities as I see them:

1) The redshirts could halt their demonstrations or at least move them to a legal location and show respect for the law. This would make their 'so-called' democracy protests legitimate. As of now their actions have made them illegitimate. They have resorted to criminal behavior. The redshirts are destroying the democracy that that seem to espouse, and they don't seem to mind if they take down the country along the way. This is ironic because elections are democratic, but demanding them mid-term after their guys were kicked out for anti-democratic vote buying is decidedly undemocratic. I believe that they won't stop, the rhetoric is too strong, they have won several psychological wars in recent days and they have the momentum.

2) The government cannot go in and shut the demonstrations down. The demonstrations would only resume the following day and would be coupled with more bombs and other methods of 'guerrilla warfare' both in Bangkok and in the provinces. A riot would surely ensue and the resulting loss of life and damage to property would be immense and unacceptable.

3) The government cannot dissolve the house and call for elections under these circumstances. The precedent it would set will set Thailand back years. The counter-demonstrations from the PAD will only continue the problems, thus ensuring a cycle of violence and mob rule for the foreseeable future.

4) The government could just wait them out, but who knows how long this could go on. The anarchy and lawlessness in the streets is intolerable to any civilized society. The citizens of Bangkok will likely rise up. You could see bombings of redshirt demonstrations, similar to the bombings of the PAD encampments. This will be disastrous if it happens. I don't have much hope that these demonstrations will just fizzle.

5) The UDD hasn't negotiated in good faith. They have not offered realistic compromise to their demands. For now negotiation seems to be off the table. I have hope that after some time venting their frustrations on the citizens of Bangkok the redshirts my be amenable to further negotiation.

In short, I don't see any positive solutions to this crisis that will be acceptable to the various players.

I remember a few months ago, the Puea Thai offered the Democrats to create a "power-sharing" deal. They declined. I think that would have been a solution. Not sure if it's still on the table.

[bangkokrick]

MCOT: Arisman leads Red Shirt protesters breaking through fence to enter Parliament compound

So now they have definitely broken the law. Arrests must be in order?

Cheers, Rick

[anotherpeter]

Remnants of reds have entered Parliament, reportedly led by Arisman.

C'mon Abhisit, <deleted>...

It's clear that the police aren't following Abhisit's orders. They've opened Silom and the others streets when the red shirts arrived. And now they cleared the way when the red shirts arrived at Parliament.

But this wasn't sactioned by the red leaders, so it's probably not really reds.

[Insight]

Remnants of reds have entered Parliament, reportedly led by Arisman.

C'mon Abhisit, <deleted>...

You tell 'em insight- and then when the upcountry town halls go up in flames- when the real stih hits the fan--- then what?

There's non-aggressive crowd control measures they could of took in front of Parliment - the situation hadn't (yet) degenerated to that of Raja-wotsit and Silom. Police seem happy to let all this happen right now though.