Pope's top adviser Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone blames gays for sex abuse scandals

THE Pope's right-hand man has blamed homosexuals for the clerical abuse scandals in the Roman Catholic Church, while denying any connection between pedophilia and priestly celibacy.

Speaking on a visit to Chile, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican Secretary of State, said: "Many psychologists and psychiatrists have demonstrated that there is no relationship between celibacy and pedophilia. But many others have demonstrated, I have been told recently, that there is a relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia. That is true. That is the problem."

His remarks drew a furious reaction from gay spokesmen yesterday. "There is no relationship between pedophilia and homosexuality," said Rolando Jimenez, the head of the Movement for the Integration and Freedom of Homosexuals in Chile.

"The Catholic Church hierarchy will at some point have to apologise for this perversion, for the sinister attitude of this Vatican gentleman. Neither Bertone nor the Vatican has the moral authority to give lessons on sexuality."

Peter Tatchell, the gay rights campaigner and spokesman for the British Protest the Pope campaign, said that Cardinal Bertone "has, in effect, blamed gay priests for the pedophile scandal".

He described the Cardinal as "a blatant distorter of the truth and an outrageous homophobe ... His vile smears against gay people bring shame and dishonour to the Church. The Vatican is trying to deflect attention from the sex crimes of Catholic clergy by blaming gay people."

Cardinal Bertone's remarks were made after another Catholic prelate was reported to have alluded to a Zionist conspiracy behind the abuse allegations.

Giacomo Babini, the retired Bishop of Grosseto in Italy, was quoted by an Italian Catholic website as complaining about a Zionist attack on the Church. He was said to have described Jews as the "natural enemies" of Catholicism. "Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are deicides [God- killers]," he said. Mgr Babini went on to argue that Hitler had exploited German anger over the "excesses" of Jews, who in the 1930s had "throttled" the German economy. Mgr Babini, 81, denied making such a statement, though the website stands by its story.

As the storm over a leading churchman's role in covering up sex abuse gathered strength, the house where Pope Benedict XVI was born in the German town of Marktl am Inn was daubed overnight with the message "F*** yourselves" painted in foot-high blue letters.

In Malta, where the Pope will arrive this weekend for a visit, billboards publicising his trips were defaced with images related to sexual abuse.

The Vatican has tried to distance the Pope from the scandals but fresh allegations in Germany have brought them closer to his doorstep. An independent report commissioned by the Catholic Church in Bavaria said that more than 100 pupils had been "sadistically tormented and also sexually abused" at the Ettal monastery boarding school over several decades until 1990.

Pope Benedict led the Archdiocese of Munich and Freising, where the Ettal monastery is situated, between 1977 and 1982. Fifteen monks and three lay teachers are accused in the document, which was released yesterday with all names blacked out to protect the identities of alleged victims and perpetrators.

The pedophile scandals threaten to overshadow Pope Benedict's trip to Malta this weekend. He is due to visit Cyprus, Portugal and Britain this year.

The Vatican has tried to shrug off threats made in Britain to have the Pope arrested for crimes against humanity when he arrives in September. Geoffrey Robertson, a barrister, and Mark Stephens, a solicitor, are considering whether they could ask the Crown Prosecution Service to initiate criminal proceedings against the Pope, launch their own civil action or refer him to the International Criminal Court. They question whether the Holy See is a sovereign state, as it claims, and whether the Pope has diplomatic immunity.

Father Federico Lombardi, the Pope's chief spokesman, described the idea as original and bizarre. He said that it was clearly aimed at public opinion, but "I think they should look for something more serious and concrete before we can respond to it".

The Times

Typical of the Catholic Church and the Pope... blame everyone else but themselves.

He blames gays, but the fact is that these gays are Catholic priests and the church knowingly covered up their activities for decades and let them carry on abusing minors. There is just no excuse for this scandal.

In Muslim countries where pre-marital sex is frowned upon, buggering young boys is an acceptable alternative (btw - the men who do it aren't considered gay). I guess the same sick logic works with Catholic priests. Personally, I don't understand why they consider it OK. Maybe because there nothing against it in the Bible/Koran?

In Muslim countries where pre-marital sex is frowned upon, buggering young boys is an acceptable alternative (btw - the men who do it aren't considered gay). I guess the same sick logic works with Catholic priests. Personally, I don't understand why they consider it OK. Maybe because there nothing against it in the Bible/Koran?

I think you are mistaken there. The Quran forbids any sexual relationship other than in a marriage between a man and a woman.

I think the Quran also forbids a husband sodomising his wife.

It was ancient Greece where sodomy between men was not considered "gay".

The issue with the Catholic church is not so much that there is a prevalence of paedophiles (although that is certainly an issue), but the cover-up by the church authorities.

The OP details a diversion, for sure.

The scandals these group of so called 'elite' religious people have been running has been going since almost the beginning of time.

You think more people would wake up to it.

In Muslim countries where pre-marital sex is frowned upon, buggering young boys is an acceptable alternative (btw - the men who do it aren't considered gay). I guess the same sick logic works with Catholic priests. Personally, I don't understand why they consider it OK. Maybe because there nothing against it in the Bible/Koran?

I think you are mistaken there. The Quran forbids...

Gimme a break. The Quran forbids all kinds of things muslims do on a daily basis. And, of course, same goes for the Bible and any other holy book & its followers you want to name.

In Muslim countries where pre-marital sex is frowned upon, buggering young boys is an acceptable alternative (btw - the men who do it aren't considered gay). I guess the same sick logic works with Catholic priests. Personally, I don't understand why they consider it OK. Maybe because there nothing against it in the Bible/Koran?

I think you are mistaken there. The Quran forbids...

Gimme a break. The Quran forbids all kinds of things muslims do on a daily basis. And, of course, same goes for the Bible and any other holy book & its followers you want to name.

You are right that all sorts of shennanigans goes on amongst all religions despite what their scriptures say.

The contrast of "frowned upon" vs "acceptable" implies something different to that, though.

I would like to add a brief note here: PEDOPHILES ARE NOT GAYS. They are mentally disturbed adults. Powertripping over the abuse of children is not matter of normal sexual orientation.

Of course, this wouldn't have anything to do with the Pope and his advisers being fundamentally closeted, homophobic gay men themselves, I'm sure.

There was a sidebar to that Times article today pointing out that so far the Vatican and its supporters have blamed the 60s sexual revolution, the Devil, the Irish, the Holocaust and the media. At least we weren't first in the queue

There was a sidebar to that Times article today pointing out that so far the Vatican and its supporters have blamed the 60s sexual revolution, the Devil, the Irish, the Holocaust and the media. At least we weren't first in the queue

There was also a claim that the recent media frenzy is a beat-up orchestrated by the Jews.

Note "the" Jews, not "some" Jews.

And IJWT is right about powertripping. Just like rape, it's about power, not sexuality.

I would like to add a brief note here: PEDOPHILES ARE NOT GAYS. They are mentally disturbed adults. Powertripping over the abuse of children is not matter of normal sexual orientation.

Of course, this wouldn't have anything to do with the Pope and his advisers being fundamentally closeted, homophobic gay men themselves, I'm sure.

I dont know much about the subject except what I have read over the years.

Seems to me I cannot recall a single instance of a priest abusing anything but young boys....

Does that make them gay pedophiles then?

I would like to add a brief note here: PEDOPHILES ARE NOT GAYS. They are mentally disturbed adults. Powertripping over the abuse of children is not matter of normal sexual orientation.

Of course, this wouldn't have anything to do with the Pope and his advisers being fundamentally closeted, homophobic gay men themselves, I'm sure.

I dont know much about the subject except what I have read over the years.

Seems to me I cannot recall a single instance of a priest abusing anything but young boys....

Does that make them gay pedophiles then?

Maybe if they had alter girls instead of just alter boys there might be some cases.

I don't see why there couldn't be cases of gay pedophiles. Just as there are probably gay pedophiles into BSB (bondage scat beastiality). Just let that mental picture sink in.

Just watch this disturbing video.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=678_1271373132

No sex but it shows how these people operate.

Just watch this disturbing video.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=678_1271373132

No sex but it shows how these people operate.

Incredible!!! Call me naive, but I find it hard to imagine how that show even went to air.....there are just so many things wrong with that host.

In Muslim countries where pre-marital sex is frowned upon, buggering young boys is an acceptable alternative (btw - the men who do it aren't considered gay). I guess the same sick logic works with Catholic priests. Personally, I don't understand why they consider it OK. Maybe because there nothing against it in the Bible/Koran?

I think you are mistaken there. The Quran forbids any sexual relationship other than in a marriage between a man and a woman.

I think the Quran also forbids a husband sodomising his wife.

it seems you are mistaken Harcourt. i refer to Sura 2:224 of the Qr'an which does not expressis verbis but indirectly allows a husband to have anal intercourse (i hate the expression "sodomise"!) with his wife even without her consent. the problem is the ambiguity of the arabic (and hebrew as well) language and grammar which leaves a lot of the 'teachings' open to interpretation and has therefore created job opportunities for islamic and jewish scholars to discuss and argue the meaning of simple sentences and words till doomsday.

"buggering young boys" in muslim countries is not acceptable alternative Koheesti but the idea originates in your sick and biased mind!

It is disturbing how frequently the point must be made:

Pedophilia is a mental illness, usually distinguished by an attraction between adult persons towards sexually immature children. There is no way that should be defined as either 'gay' or 'straight' orientations, or even strictly speaking is about sexuality at all.

The legal definitions sometimes get things confused because 'age of consent' can involve persons who are sexually mature, but not competent to make legal decisions about sexual consent. Psychological (medical) definitions of pedophilia do not include all of these legal cases.

In my book, there are NO straight pedophiles, and NO gay pedophiles. There are mentally ill adults who prey on children. The reasons for choosing boys or girls would have to do with their individual mental illnesses. There are a number of priests in trouble for abuse of girls, by the way.

However, if the catholic church wants the 'straight dope,' there is overwhelming worldwide evidence that the majority of child abusers are their own presumably 'straight' parents or relatives. So much for correlations.

A post has been deleted and a warning issued for the sadly and stupidly inevitable homophobic comparisons of pedophilia and homosexuality; such comments will continue to earn warnings and penalties no matter where they are made on the forum.

To be fair, I read his point as being about how some people accept homosexuality as natural and some people don't....which is true out there amongst the ignorant masses.

But you're the boss.

The "disease of the mind" idea regarding paedophiles...... It is a way to think of it.....but I wonder if it is like pshychopathy; there is evidence that shows that psychopaths are genetically wired so. In which case, it could be argued that a psychopath can't help himself and that his condition, although not normal, is natural.

Could this be true also for paedophiles?

IF paedophilia is genetic.....it brings to mind "the God Gene".

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101041025/

If there is a "God gene", it would stand to reason that priests in particular would have it.

Could there be an associated gene that predisposes the carrier to paedophilia?

Perhaps enforced celibacy is a trigger to gene carriers to act upon the desires? Hence the higher proprtion of Catholics.

Just musing out loud.

There was a sidebar to that Times article today pointing out that so far the Vatican and its supporters have blamed the 60s sexual revolution, the Devil, the Irish, the Holocaust and the media. At least we weren't first in the queue

There was also a claim that the recent media frenzy is a beat-up orchestrated by the Jews.

Note "the" Jews, not "some" Jews.

And IJWT is right about powertripping. Just like rape, it's about power, not sexuality.

That is exactly correct. Often it is not understood. There is no sexuality involved in pedophilia. It's all about power. To ascribe the perversion to any one group is misguided.

It is disturbing how frequently the point must be made:

Pedophilia is a mental illness, usually distinguished by an attraction between adult persons towards sexually immature children. There is no way that should be defined as either 'gay' or 'straight' orientations, or even strictly speaking is about sexuality at all.

The legal definitions sometimes get things confused because 'age of consent' can involve persons who are sexually mature, but not competent to make legal decisions about sexual consent. Psychological (medical) definitions of pedophilia do not include all of these legal cases.

In my book, there are NO straight pedophiles, and NO gay pedophiles. There are mentally ill adults who prey on children. The reasons for choosing boys or girls would have to do with their individual mental illnesses. There are a number of priests in trouble for abuse of girls, by the way.

However, if the catholic church wants the 'straight dope,' there is overwhelming worldwide evidence that the majority of child abusers are their own presumably 'straight' parents or relatives. So much for correlations.

Therein is one of the major problems. The catholic church is in denial and plays the blame game. There is no desire to 'want' the 'straight dope'. What they 'want' is to avoid responsibility at the cost of permanently damaging children. It's evil and reprehensible.

venturalaw is right here. This isn't about gay or straight, this is about the Church refusing to take responsibility for coverups instituted from within the Church. I find it interesting that its easier to discuss the pedophiles than the fact that the Church essentially sanctioned this behavior by not doing anything or covering it up when caught.

Doesn't say much for the institution as a whole then does it?

To be fair, I read his point as being about how some people accept homosexuality as natural and some people don't....which is true out there amongst the ignorant masses.

thanx.

If there is a "God gene", it would stand to reason that priests in particular would have it.

Could there be an associated gene that predisposes the carrier to paedophilia?

Perhaps enforced celibacy is a trigger to gene carriers to act upon the desires? Hence the higher proprtion of Catholics.

Just musing out loud.

No, pedophiles probably become priests for the same reason you find them in other professions where they get to be around children unsupervised in postions of power and authority. Like vampires working at a blood bank.

Most pedophiles are straight.

Most pedophiles are straight.

And all are sick in the head who should either be castrated, locked up for life, or given an express ticket to Hades.

It would seem logical to me that if a man abuses young boys, he is gay. If he abuses young girls he would be considered straight.

If a woman abuses young girls, she would be gay and if she abuses young boys, she would be considered straight.

However, having no experience being either gay or a paedophile, it is simply my opinion.

What you're focusing on is gender and simple hetero/homo sexuality, chuck. I can see your reasoning, however I think it is generally accepted that sexuality does not consist of just two states.

Also, there is an evolutionary and social imperative that forbids paedophilia.....perhaps a more pertinant point to the entire paedophile discussion.

Is the sexuality of the perpetrators an issue?

I realise that the OP was all about an allegation of the sexuality of the perpetrators, so, to clarify your post, are you saying that the Catholic spokesman that the OP refers to is correct?

And yet still we focus on the definition rather than the real issue at hand here. The Church and its coverup of this activity. I wonder why that is?

And yet still we focus on the definition rather than the real issue at hand here. The Church and its coverup of this activity. I wonder why that is?

I thought it had already been established the Catholic Church covered their mess up.

What else is there to discuss?

Mr. Harcourt:

I don't feel a need to clarify my post. The OPINION is fairly straight forward and hardly requires dissection.

Ditto the idea that pedophiles are gay I would have thought.

Seems to me, given the endless arguments over other stuff, that this one is pretty quiet. The church didn't just cover it up, didn't systematcally condone the behavior by transferring priests, but then also decided to scapegoat it too. But, its been covered. In posts number 2 & 3.

Never mind. I bow out. Clearly, this has been done to death.