Its kind of hard to win the hearts of Isaan when the red thugs threaten your life every time you try to visit there to talk to the people.

plus when previously you've completely annoyed them....

You have to admit the reds never gave Abhisit a chance. You can question the way he came to power, but the fact is he did come to power, and he was open to work with the reds and they weren't playing. Sorry, that blood is on the red's hands.

i dunno how you can whitewash yr "poster boy" pm of any crimes for april 10th..

he sent the troops in, he's legacy will be mostly remembered for this bloody occasion...

he's the one with blood on his hands....

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

I disagree. Thailand is a highly entropic environment. Abhisit is working hard to remove or neutralize some of the variables that can lead to the destruction of the state. He has brought the command of the military (regardless of rogue elements) under the fold of the central government. His is the only legitimate government or other body that wants to start a national dialogue on the role of the monarchy in Thailand's future. He has sought negotiations with leadership elements of the demonstrators and has not, despite their unlawful assembly, castigated the rank and file members. He has sought to neutralize an enemy of the state that controls a political party and backs an insurgency. All the while while maintaining open communications with the entire population. It's a f'ing enormous undertaking and almost no one wants him to succeed. Despite that he presses on and says he will resign if he can't effect change.

As far as being PM to the ENTIRE population, his measures to give direct price supports to rice growers rather than to middlemen has wide support. His measures to overhaul the education system and extend the term of years available for free extends to all Thais. His measure to implement land taxes to FUND these measures is without precedent and you'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see that is the rich and middle classes who are the payors in that scheme and it is the poor who shall be the payees.

Its kind of hard to win the hearts of Isaan when the red thugs threaten your life every time you try to visit there to talk to the people.

plus when previously you've completely annoyed them....

You have to admit the reds never gave Abhisit a chance. You can question the way he came to power, but the fact is he did come to power, and he was open to work with the reds and they weren't playing. Sorry, that blood is on the red's hands.

i dunno how you can whitewash yr "poster boy" pm of any crimes for april 10th..

he sent the troops in, he's legacy will be mostly remembered for this bloody occasion...

he's the one with blood on his hands....

You miss my point entirely. I am talking about BEFORE the protest. The red leaders wouldn't let Abhisit even get near their people. The "need" for this insurgency may have indeed been prevented. The reds say they are pro democracy when clearly they are not.

I vote for a move of "Shut the F#uck up" and don't make a bad situation worse...

Seconded

I completely agree, its not as if the Yellows followed the state of emergency and a the various pleas from the Somchai+Samak gov't to stop illegal protesting either. Since Yellows didn't follow the law they have no right to comment on anyone else who decides to break the law either-they weren't even put in jail.

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

Should he go for a parliament diss and Election you never know........ He might even get the Top Job

otherwise get an order in to his tailor for a new flashy generals uniform with fag paper silver medals and atart wearing ray-bans......BURMA style.....

PAD threatening violence now if they can get their mobs through the Bangkok Blockade that is now turning away police and army units.

PAD should be careful as they sheltered under the protection of the Army last time. Army not too keen this time and there are an awful lot of reds there for middle class gentry to be fighting hand to hand with!

PAD should dissapear and elections held. The only thing to consider for both sides is that the elections are fair this time and monitored by UN or somesuch agency.

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

I disagree. Thailand is a highly entropic environment. Abhisit is working hard to remove or neutralize some of the variables that can lead to the destruction of the state. He has brought the command of the military (regardless of rogue elements) under the fold of the central government. His is the only legitimate government or other body that wants to start a national dialogue on the role of the monarchy in Thailand's future. He has sought negotiations with leadership elements of the demonstrators and has not, despite their unlawful assembly, castigated the rank and file members. He has sought to neutralize an enemy of the state that controls a political party and backs an insurgency. All the while while maintaining open communications with the entire population. It's a f'ing enormous undertaking and almost no one wants him to succeed. Despite that he presses on and says he will resign if he can't effect change.

As far as being PM to the ENTIRE population, his measures to give direct price supports to rice growers rather than to middlemen has wide support. His measures to overhaul the education system and extend the term of years available for free extends to all Thais. His measure to implement land taxes to FUND these measures is without precedent and you'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see that is the rich and middle classes who are the payors in that scheme and it is the poor who shall be the payees.

Great post. The reality of the situation summed up in a nutshell.

Are we in the edge of a kind of civil war between yellow and red ? Situation is really strange ... A call for election would be the best solution ,let the people decide. Its scary actually .

It would be if an election could decide this issue. Sadly, neither side has shown much predilection to see constitutionally seated governments as legitimate. Until they're prepared to do so, an election won't solve much if anything.

The traditional source of legitimacy is waning. The question is what will replace it.

Excellent point. How much longer can this country afford to be governed by mob rule?

One of the major causes of the grotesque and dangerous political immaturity and infantillism in Thailand (which is what we're seeing with the PAD and UDD) is that it is now, and has been for a long time, straight out illegal to talk frankly about the distribution of political and economic power let alone how it's exercised. There is no more that can be said without getting into trouble.

One of the major causes of the grotesque and dangerous political immaturity and infantillism in Thailand (which is what we're seeing with the PAD and UDD) is that it is now, and has been for a long time, straight out illegal to talk frankly about the distribution of political and economic power let alone how it's exercised. There is no more that can be said without getting into trouble.

An excellent point - for me, this analysis sits very well with the sentiments from the japantimes online article - yup, it is just a chap's opinion but it is one for the debate and so for me valid.

japanonline article

Maybe, Mai pen rai, has itself become an expression that should be thrown into the ring for debate?

yellows should wear black now and prepare to mourn the number of dead bodies to come...

until farangs are branded as cheap charlies and are stranded at the airport with no food and money and no onward ticket back home and sleeping on newspapers at the airport and rioting like the brits did recently....much to the chagrin of the other snobbish expats at the airport and in tv columns here.....

One can see that there is a section of the red cheerleader crowd with deadly intentions on both their political opponents and objects of their xenophobic rage.

The resentful petty-bourgeois inciting from the sidelines.

They sort of get in the way of the expat spinners selling the red movement as a peaceful one who will not be sure now if they will get an uninvited stick or worse across the back of their head (hey, I'm wearing a red shirt compadre!)

Desperate times for the camp followers.

Its kind of hard to win the hearts of Isaan when the red thugs threaten your life every time you try to visit there to talk to the people.

plus when previously you've completely annoyed them....

You have to admit the reds never gave Abhisit a chance. You can question the way he came to power, but the fact is he did come to power, and he was open to work with the reds and they weren't playing. Sorry, that blood is on the red's hands.

BS. What a absurd logic.

He was/is the wrong man to 'win the hearts' of the Isaan people. He have to blame himself that he is unloved and not the people.

He was given a change, but he failed big time. He didn't seek the dialogue, but underestimate the reds, first he ignored them and then suppressed them. A smirk in the face and a farcical propaganda campaign was not enough to convince them. That they don't fall for it unlike some farangs at TVF don't make them to thugs. Also amongst international observer he don't got much credit.

Now he clings to his power until the situations turns even more nasty or the day he will just get banned form politics and the democrats dissolved for financial frauds.

Can't trust his words, Abhisit is a liar. He promised a free media, but it gets worse day by day.

PAD threatening violence now if they can get their mobs through the Bangkok Blockade that is now turning away police and army units.

PAD should be careful as they sheltered under the protection of the Army last time. Army not too keen this time and there are an awful lot of reds there for middle class gentry to be fighting hand to hand with!

PAD should dissapear and elections held. The only thing to consider for both sides is that the elections are fair this time and monitored by UN or somesuch agency.

Elections that are monitored by the UN!!! If you were a Red leader your phone would be full of SMSs from Thaksin telling you to retract that. PT would probably lose 20% of their seats if there were fair elections in Issan.

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

Actually, most of the peasants would not be up in arms against Abhisit if Khun Thaksin had not carefully manipulated them in the first place. The parallels between this movement and the rise of the national socialists in pre war Germany are plain to see. The mass psychology employed by the Thasinites is straight out of Mein Kampf. The only difference here is that there is no racial scenario that can be used to divide and rule, but if the reds were, say, black and the yellows white then we'd see the racism explode. Now you may say that the Isaan mob can be seen as 'black' and the Chinese middle classes of Bangkok as the 'whites' but this doesn't work as there is no element of racial purity and Thaksin himself comes from the latter class (ie Chinese ancestors). The careful manipulation, that comes right from the very top, at the end of the day could be called Thaksin's Revenge - the others are bit players. The 'democracy' buzzword was a clever invention so that it could be used a s a convenient peg on which to hang the protest movement. In real terms Abhisit has served the country well, he's a well-meaning fellow, straight as they come, not corrupt and really the best option for Thailand. What a shame that such a good man is frequently abused on TVisa and by the goons dressed (or not) in red. That a fascist-like movement has emerged may be coincidence, but that is, sadly, what we are facing.

What do these guys think they are? Giving 7 days to government to solve the problem and telling they will take an action if gov. don't comply with them?

They don't think - they are sure they the government.

These are the self-same mob who through (un-threatened, un-checked actions, including airport closure, prompted the army onto the streets.

So these guys believe they have control over the regime they helped put in.

Betcha no threat of force will bve levelled at them - whatever they threaten to do.

Bigger problem for this mob is - who to support next? When Abhisit's regime fails to respond to their demands, do disillusioned yellows, turn colour? Naaah.

Not too unlike the unions 'owning' Labour in UK.

Abhisit seems to be continually re-playing a sketch from Ali G: Talk to the hand, 'cos the face ain't listenin! ....to any-one.

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

I disagree. Thailand is a highly entropic environment. Abhisit is working hard to remove or neutralize some of the variables that can lead to the destruction of the state. He has brought the command of the military (regardless of rogue elements) under the fold of the central government. His is the only legitimate government or other body that wants to start a national dialogue on the role of the monarchy in Thailand's future. He has sought negotiations with leadership elements of the demonstrators and has not, despite their unlawful assembly, castigated the rank and file members. He has sought to neutralize an enemy of the state that controls a political party and backs an insurgency. All the while while maintaining open communications with the entire population. It's a f'ing enormous undertaking and almost no one wants him to succeed. Despite that he presses on and says he will resign if he can't effect change.

As far as being PM to the ENTIRE population, his measures to give direct price supports to rice growers rather than to middlemen has wide support. His measures to overhaul the education system and extend the term of years available for free extends to all Thais. His measure to implement land taxes to FUND these measures is without precedent and you'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see that is the rich and middle classes who are the payors in that scheme and it is the poor who shall be the payees.

Reality check!

Did it work out? Is he now the beloved PM in North, East, south and West, amongst all classes?

Some people thought he is the man for it. He got support, a helping hand, had his change.And where are we now? Is the unity of Thailand restored or are the people even more divided than ever before?

Success or failure?

You can Easily still watch a Live Stream of the UDD

1,000,000's of "Phrai" Watch it Daily!

www.thailandudd.net

i cant see them bringing anything good to the table

just reminds everyone where the reds get their tactics from,,,,

taking over areas,,causing anarchy,deminding things and the latest yellow tactic the reds have copied dropping their traditional colour and going multi coloured

At least ASTV will be going off the air today as part of the SOE! It will, won't it

Gives the world another chance to see double standards in action.

Red TV, Radio and Websites shut down ALL

PAD poison channels shut down NIL

Way to go Neutral Mark, way to go.

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

I disagree. Thailand is a highly entropic environment. Abhisit is working hard to remove or neutralize some of the variables that can lead to the destruction of the state. He has brought the command of the military (regardless of rogue elements) under the fold of the central government. His is the only legitimate government or other body that wants to start a national dialogue on the role of the monarchy in Thailand's future. He has sought negotiations with leadership elements of the demonstrators and has not, despite their unlawful assembly, castigated the rank and file members. He has sought to neutralize an enemy of the state that controls a political party and backs an insurgency. All the while while maintaining open communications with the entire population. It's a f'ing enormous undertaking and almost no one wants him to succeed. Despite that he presses on and says he will resign if he can't effect change.

As far as being PM to the ENTIRE population, his measures to give direct price supports to rice growers rather than to middlemen has wide support. His measures to overhaul the education system and extend the term of years available for free extends to all Thais. His measure to implement land taxes to FUND these measures is without precedent and you'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see that is the rich and middle classes who are the payors in that scheme and it is the poor who shall be the payees.

Reality check!

Did it work out? Is he now the beloved PM in North, East, south and West, amongst all classes?

Some people thought he is the man for it. He got support, a helping hand, had his change.And where are we now? Is the unity of Thailand restored or are the people even more divided than ever before?

Success or failure?

You can say the same about Thaksin and he was the PM for over 5 years (68 months). Abhisit has been at it for only 16 months. Abhisit's main fault is he is too nice. If Thaksin was still PM and this happened to him what do you think he would do?

Abhisit is at least trying to be PM of ALL Thailand. That includes the red shirts, the yellow shirts, the multi-color shirts. the shirt non-aligned, etc. The reds try to act as if they are the ONLY faction against the government (which they paint as yellow shirts when they clearly are not) and their red faction must get all its demands met or if not, hold the entire country hostage under threat of real and threatened violence and anarchy. These rather extreme yellow pronouncements make clear it can never be that simple.

Wrong.

Abhisit clearly failed to be the PM for ALL Thailand and he never even tried it to be.

I disagree. Thailand is a highly entropic environment. Abhisit is working hard to remove or neutralize some of the variables that can lead to the destruction of the state. He has brought the command of the military (regardless of rogue elements) under the fold of the central government. His is the only legitimate government or other body that wants to start a national dialogue on the role of the monarchy in Thailand's future. He has sought negotiations with leadership elements of the demonstrators and has not, despite their unlawful assembly, castigated the rank and file members. He has sought to neutralize an enemy of the state that controls a political party and backs an insurgency. All the while while maintaining open communications with the entire population. It's a f'ing enormous undertaking and almost no one wants him to succeed. Despite that he presses on and says he will resign if he can't effect change.

As far as being PM to the ENTIRE population, his measures to give direct price supports to rice growers rather than to middlemen has wide support. His measures to overhaul the education system and extend the term of years available for free extends to all Thais. His measure to implement land taxes to FUND these measures is without precedent and you'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see that is the rich and middle classes who are the payors in that scheme and it is the poor who shall be the payees.

Reality check!

Did it work out? Is he now the beloved PM in North, East, south and West, amongst all classes?

Some people thought he is the man for it. He got support, a helping hand, had his change.And where are we now? Is the unity of Thailand restored or are the people even more divided than ever before?

Success or failure?

I don't get the impression that Abhisit cares whether or not he is beloved. That's for small, petty men to care about. I think he cares about whether or not he can create policies that over time will heal the divisions in Thai society. Almost no one wants him to succeed, because just as a maggot feeds on garbage, there are a multitude of interests that feed on division, conflict and ignorance. The solutions won't come in 16 months, or even 16 years. They will come progressively, over time and will increasingly reap rewards for all Thai people as the impediments to a more just society are diminished or fall away. Let history decide if he was effective, and in the mean time let him do his job.

So now we have PAD on one side, reds on the other side and government and military getting caught in the middle with a multicoloured support group. Interesting the way this is playing politically or being played.

Abhisit and Anupong are trying to avoid a violent and temporary 'solution' that would only make matters far worse. Each himself wants to avoid it and both know that internationally they'd go to jail

Both know the army is divided and that Thaksi owns the police, that the police are a wholely owned subsidiary of the Thaksin family inc.

It takes money to have a revolution/civil war and Thaksin's got plenty of it.

Either A & A are hoping they can ignore the situation so that it can go away, or they're waiting for the population as a whole to give the word to crack down and shoot to kill. The former is unrealistic, the latter is lose-lose.

The population in general know the Redshirt leaders are thugs but that the great mass of Reds are ordinary Thais, and accept that A & A are trying to separte the two physically so that some action can be taken against the thugs.

Any yellow vs red violence would create complete anarchy and require state intervention, which might only increase the violence and anarchy as the police and army are not reliable.

If there's a coup both A & A would be gone.

Both the government and the Red leaders care what the international community think and say, as evidenced by the Reds PR stunt about the UN and their inviting foreign diplomats to their camp, and Abhisit vowing to act according to "international standards."

Thais can't resolve this themselves so the government itself may eventually have to call on the UN to deal with the country as a failed state without any official declaration of it being a failed state, only a hopelessly divided one.

topic continues

Thailand's 'Yellow Shirts' call for martial law

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-Y...Ma-t359624.html

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