Carburetors On Bikes

[elf]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS IN THAILAND REGARDING CARBURATED ENGINES ON MOTORCYCLES , WILL THERE BE AN EXEMPTION CLAUSE FOR OLDER BIKES.

[tubber]

I presume it will be like the rest of the world. New bikes have to meet the stringent emission laws such as Euro III or US equivalent. Older bikes will still be allowed to run around.

[rfukata]

I believe not any time soon for Thailand. first look how many bikes (carbs) there are? registered and unregistered. I would doubt that Thailand can effectively mandate this as it will effect the livelihood of families who depend on their bike and expenses for transportation.

Probably best to check the manufactories long term strategies and future plans i.e. Honda, Yamaha, BMW, etc.

[katabeachbum]

I believe not any time soon for Thailand. first look how many bikes (carbs) there are? registered and unregistered. I would doubt that Thailand can effectively mandate this as it will effect the livelihood of families who depend on their bike and expenses for transportation.

Probably best to check the manufactories long term strategies and future plans i.e. Honda, Yamaha, BMW, etc.

Thailand has the stringest emission requirements in the world. A way to meet them for manufactorers is to use high octane fuel 95 or 98 RON in combination with injection/EGR/cat. But since 95 is only available blended with ethanol and 98 is unavailable, importers have huge challenges.

Yamaha can only use the California spec bikes in LOS

Kawasaki must develope thai ECU to meet emission requirements

Honda found it needed to sell only fuelinjected bikes in LOS on every enginesize since 2010

[CMX]

In a nation where farmers' votes are much desired, acts of burning fields are not challenged. Applying an ex-post-facto regulation to the huge majority of Thais who drive carburetor fueled bikes (as is argued above) is more than unlikely. In my view, it is not possible - politically or as an enforcement reality.

Denying fuels appropriate to older models will lead to attrition, however.

Meanwhile, Honda has met the need for the vast majority of citizens without putting prices up a great deal. Those of us who lust for big bikes may have to scramble, but the majority market will be served.

And as long as "big bike" minds are willing to fish in gray market waters, we won't suffer a great deal either, particularly if we like to work on bikes. What will continue to grind are import duties for new low-polluting models above 250cc - which, worldwide, are in production now for virtually every segment. Import duties, taxes, nuisance fees, insurance, and licensing add up to our costs here, not fuel injection. I think.

Edited May 2, 2010 by CMX

[katabeachbum]

In a nation where farmers' votes are much desired, acts of burning fields are not challenged. Applying an ex-post-facto regulation to the huge majority of Thais who drive carburetor fueled bikes (as is argued above) is more than unlikely. In my view, it is not possible - politically or as an enforcement reality.

Denying fuels appropriate to older models will lead to attrition, however.

Meanwhile, Honda has met the need for the vast majority of citizens without putting prices up a great deal. Those of us who lust for big bikes may have to scramble, but the majority market will be served.

And as long as "big bike" minds are willing to fish in gray market waters, we won't suffer a great deal either, particularly if we like to work on bikes. What will continue to grind are import duties for new low-polluting models above 250cc - which, worldwide, are in production now for virtually every segment. Import duties, taxes, nuisance fees, insurance, and licensing add up to our costs here, not fuel injection. I think.

high emission bikes already approved and registered will of course not be affected by todays emission requirements, but some of them are already affected by the lack of 95 and 98 gasoline. I m talking new bikes emission, the worlds most stringent requirements

[CMX]

I guess everyone agrees that bikes that we're riding already won't be legislated - except by fuel availability.

And gasoline does not pollute more than ethanol products - we're probably coming to accept now - when we consider the pollution costs of ethanol production.

The issue of pure gasoline being produced is one of economics, not environment. The Thai government (as would any importing nation) want to get out of the way of fuel importing costs, as they deplete the nation's funds. All gasolines are becoming a victim - or have.

We have to admit that few vehicles of any type need "high octane gasoline" except for performance vehicles or at least those made more powerful with turbochargers. As a private pilot, I suffered a similar evolution a good way back, and note that small minorities tend to get short shrift.

In terms of predictions for high performance bikes that depend upon high octane gasoline, since our numbers are extremely small as a percent, we can further refine our answer to simply asking the question: How many of the most powerful Thai people, including just for discussion those presently touring abroad, are regularly riding motorcycles that require 98 octane gasoline, as a percent of their class? (These would doubtless be the folks who could not afford those Italian and German imports that make me, for one, drool.)

I read a paper somewhere saying Thailand got their standards from Taiwan? And that California standards will serve? It's the way of the world on our doorstep.

Just shows how Thailand is doing what so many contributors desire, modernizing in ways that benefit us all. Makes me proud to be a visitor.

[ttakata]

Yep, the carb will vanish soon, just like it did on cars back in the 1990s.

I'm all for advancement, it will reduce pollution.

I've rebuilt and fixed several carbs, it's a pain and I won't miss their demise.

I guess if you love carb'ed bikes you better start hoarding them away now.

Most of the big bikes have been injected for a decade now, but it will be cool for all the little bikes to get this technology here.

So we miss out on the CBR150 this year, but maybe Yamaha and Honda will be smart and open local production lines for their FI 125cc bikes sold in Europe already.

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/product...rt/yzf-r125.jsp

http://ww1.honda.co.uk/motorcycles

On a sidenote, You'd think the Thai government would have pushed for Hybrid cars to be imported cheaply or made locally years ago.

They're just starting to trickle into the market now, better late than never I guess.

[thaicbr]

TT. The cbr125 is already made in thailand. the cbf in indonesia i believe

[PeaceBlondie]

The 2002 to 2010 CBR150 ran on 91 octane and had somewhere near 11:1 compression ratio.

[katabeachbum]

Yep, the carb will vanish soon, just like it did on cars back in the 1990s.

I'm all for advancement, it will reduce pollution.

I've rebuilt and fixed several carbs, it's a pain and I won't miss their demise.

I guess if you love carb'ed bikes you better start hoarding them away now.

Most of the big bikes have been injected for a decade now, but it will be cool for all the little bikes to get this technology here.

So we miss out on the CBR150 this year, but maybe Yamaha and Honda will be smart and open local production lines for their FI 125cc bikes sold in Europe already.

http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/product...rt/yzf-r125.jsp

http://ww1.honda.co.uk/motorcycles

On a sidenote, You'd think the Thai government would have pushed for Hybrid cars to be imported cheaply or made locally years ago.

They're just starting to trickle into the market now, better late than never I guess.

Thai government has been pushing to have hybrid cars made locally for years, and the first to take advantage of it is Camry Hybrid. The financial support is so heavy, its sold at approx same price as a 2,4 gasoline only

carbed bikes can pollute less than injection bikes, just look at yamaha

[LivinLOS]

Yep, the carb will vanish soon, just like it did on cars back in the 1990s.

I'm all for advancement, it will reduce pollution.

I've rebuilt and fixed several carbs, it's a pain and I won't miss their demise.

I guess if you love carb'ed bikes you better start hoarding them away now.

But to do so often you get vastly reduced power items to get through the regs..

The KLX 150 carbed is a little trail basher, and with a pipe and some carb mods can pull along enough to be fun.. The KLX125 FI puts out about the same power as a honda wave, and becomes totally uninteresting.

[ttakata]

But to do so often you get vastly reduced power items to get through the regs..

The KLX 150 carbed is a little trail basher, and with a pipe and some carb mods can pull along enough to be fun.. The KLX125 FI puts out about the same power as a honda wave, and becomes totally uninteresting.

I feel ya, I know the small FI bikes are underpowered.

Adding all the weight and complexity of FI really hurts the smaller bikes.

The technology is there to make them faster and better than carb'ed bikes but its up to the bean counters to allow it.

All the big FI sport bikes make more power with every new generation because there's so much competition.

I mean a BMW 1000RR makes 193HP supposedly.

At almost 200HP/liter, imagine if they applied that kind of engine tech to smaller bikes.

A 100cc scooter could have 18HP!

Of course this won't happen for probably 20 years but its just a matter of time till the little under 250cc bikes have bigbike tech trickled down to them.

So if the CBR125 is already made here, seems a shame we can't buy it.

I imagine Honda is losing all the old CBR 150 money as people jump up to a Ninja 250 or down to a Spark 135.

I was really hoping to see the VTR250 here too, oh well, maybe next year.

Obviously Toyota is dealing with their Prius brake debacle, but I'd love to see all the taxis in BKK be Hybrids.

It's nice to see so many CNGs already but the Corolla/Altis CNG is rated at 9KM/L and a Prius is 25KM/L

Really, someone needs to make a diesel hybrid, then they'd get crazy efficiency.

All this talk of pollution makes me want to smoke a cigarette

[LivinLOS]

I think it has far more to do with killing the power to pass emissions.. Look at the KLX/D-Tracker thing with the restricted ECU..

Edited May 4, 2010 by LivinLOS

[katabeachbum]

I think it has far more to do with killing the power to pass emissions.. Look at the KLX/D-Tracker thing with the restricted ECU..

No doubt

Low emission comes at a price, engines tourque and power curves change. Just look at US 50 states bikes and compare with Calif spec.

The interesting thing is that Yamaha seems to manage emission with carbs on their V-twins, while most others need injection