Farang Explosion

[gotglue]

20 years is a long time, anything could happen.

The way things are now I would not retire to Thailand. Nothing to do with the protests, its

just as westerner is Thailand you are not accepted, wanted or appreciated. Why live in a country

where you little rights and will always be an outsider to the indigenous population.

Still I have seen many dudes retired in Thailand and they are happy and living fun lifes.

You obviously DON'T live here, and if you do...why?

[freethefour]

Not I do not live in Thailand. Had lots of long holidays there, nice country.

Just would not live there. Would not mind a move to Japan if I am ever so

lucky in my life to get that oppourtunity, do not think I will though.

[BigWheelMan]

I think ole Winnie makes some good logical points.

Thailand was for many years the grazing field for old Farangs because it had a low cost good standard of living.

What would be considered luxuries in the West was affordable here in Thailand. In those days, life really could begin at 60.

Many Thai women at the time who were on low incomes or no incomes, considered the old Farangs as a means to an end, status, financial security, food on the table and a roof over their heads.

But times have changed, Thais are financially better off, the cost of living has increased, plus bank interest and exchange rates have plummeted meaning less money for those that receive their incomes from abroad.

I agree with winnie, I think in the not so distant future Thailand will no longer be a viable retirement place for retirees and they will be replaced by younger Farangs, perhaps business owners or employed, that will be coming here in lesser numbers.

Edited June 3, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[purplehaze]

The Mighty Kwai is in desperate need of attention as his wine tasting thread fizzled out,please do not encourage him.

[anonymouse]

15 years ago at the time of the crash in Thailand fortunes were won and lost by Westerners out here,

as the Taoists say the only constant is change so who knows where Thailand will be in 20 years time.

Winnie certainly makes some valid points though.

Personally I'm hoping to be living in a democratic Burma in 20 years time, you never know

[SuperstarStatus]

I think the Kwai is worried about having to fend off younger challengers to his crown as "Mr. Big Show" up there in the great NE?

There are less farangs living here compared to 5 years ago. You can sleep easier tonight and tomorrow knowing this.

Don't you hate it's when farangs are so defensive? And they think because they know a couple Thai words & married a Thai bar girl they are more Thai then everyone else. LOL !!!!!!!!! Get out the country you losers !!! Hahaha go invade & vacation in the middle east I hear the women there are also poor, so wave your life savings of 20 grand over there !!! Hahaha I hope the Thai wealth spreads & the females are all independent !!! Lol !!!

[IMA_FARANG]

Well I first came to Bangkok in 1977...that's 33 years ago not 20.

It seems to me that the farang expat population then was more Americans and fewer British then. Perhaps that was because of those who came to Thailand from Vietnam or who originally came to Thailand with the U.S, military, then chose to stay on or return after they left the military. Also we had a lot of Americans working in the mideast then who chose to take their vacations in Thailand. There was also a large contingent of military retirees who make their homes up in Issan then, mainly around Korat I believe. There was an active Veterens Of Foriegn Wars (VFW) group in Korat. Many of those retirees have probably passed away by now.

In 1977 I met two WWII vets, both originally from Indonesia, who were from the Netherlands. They were both imprisoned by the Japanese during WWII....and both had stayed here afterwards and married a Thai wife. They were the last edge of the unintentional WWII farangs who came to Thailand after 1945.

I don't think the living costs will make that much difference. Thailand is still cheaper than many European countries, and the U.S. That will probablt be the case for a while.

Yes, the travel to Greece is less expensive than a ticket to Thailand...but as I live her in Crete...let me assure you hotels in Thailand are cheaper than they are in Greece. Greece or Spain are not the tourist bargains you might think they are...and the costs of a holiday in those places is growing as fast if not faster than in Thailand.

I remember when Thailand had a lot of Japanese tourists. There were a lot of Japanese only bars, with packaged "all included" sex tours for the Japanese male tourists. That seems to have peaked and dropped back to a lower level.

The point is, tourisim...who the tourists are and where they come from is a cyclical business. Sometimes Thailand is up, sometimes it is down in the popularity ranking. I expect it always will be the same.

So, bottom line, I expect the number and nationality of "farangs" in Thailand to go up and down in line with economic and other factors in those nations that supply the tourists. Yes, I expect there will be more Asians...from China and Hong Kong, as well as Singapore and Malaysia. But I don't expect the total of tourists and expacts will be drastically reduced. The ratio of nationalities may change...but I don't expect a drastic decline in the number of "farangs" coming to Thailand.

Edited June 3, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Jingthing]

What does Thailand bring to the world other than rice and trucks? They will rate against Singapore when their EDUCATION system rates like Singapore. Currently Singapore is about the best in the world and Thailand's system is among the worst (for its level of development). Thailand could rate in 20 years IF they started now. But they aren't really, are they? It is part of the culture here, which is changing indeed, changing towards massive political instability with no end in sight.

[Nignoy]

I think the OP was probably drunk when he started this thread. I stopped reading after 'Inevitably, Thailand develops and the economy grows, making things more expensive. Think Singapore and Hong Kong. Er, no, those places were sorted out by the British you couldn't pick worse examples for comparison; Thailand's beyond the point of no return; socially and racially divided, with an infrastructure and a political system of limited effectiveness.

Thailand develop and economy grow mid60,s I was at the opening of the Mandarin hotel in bkk, 44 years later the only thing that has changed there is the colour of the wallpaper and the ladyboys have zimmer frames!!, the receptionist is now the floor manager,takes longer to get to the somtam triangle (Amnat , Khemmerat, Leong nok tha) at least the lao khao is in labeled bottles and is reasonably safe, lots of farang managed 7-11,s, and the main thing I have not seen a roadbridge collapse for a few years, and the situation that will never change tourists still get treated like <deleted> in certain areas of phuket

[moe666]

Not much will change as long as you have dirt poor farmers and their daughters and in some cases sons, all trying to do better. What other countries have a social security system based on their children moving away with a foreign individual and sending money home.

Thailand is a long way from becoming Singapore, or Hong Kong.

[witold]

Inevitably, Thailand develops and the economy grows, making things more expensive. Think Singapore and Hong Kong. While typical expat groups such as multinational company staff and government/embassy workers will still be in Thailand, the increased expense makes it far less likely for people to retire.

I am not sure why you are citing Singapore and Hong Kong. Both these areas have had explosive growth in foreign nationals living there.

Not all foreigners live in a foreign country because it's a cheap place to retire. The LOS retirees might disappear for another more economical destination, but other foreigners will come in droves to replace them. If LOS becomes a more attractive place to do business, a ton of foreigners will come here.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Mighty Kwai is in desperate need of attention as his wine tasting thread fizzled out,please do not encourage him.

The Mighty Khwai, I like that! Let me fit that somewhere in my member profile..

(And it didn't fizzle out, it fell completely flat into the abyss from the get-go. Indeed people on this forum seem more into beer. )

Edited June 4, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Inevitably, Thailand develops and the economy grows, making things more expensive. Think Singapore and Hong Kong. While typical expat groups such as multinational company staff and government/embassy workers will still be in Thailand, the increased expense makes it far less likely for people to retire.

I am not sure why you are citing Singapore and Hong Kong. Both these areas have had explosive growth in foreign nationals living there.

Not all foreigners live in a foreign country because it's a cheap place to retire. The LOS retirees might disappear for another more economical destination, but other foreigners will come in droves to replace them. If LOS becomes a more attractive place to do business, a ton of foreigners will come here.

That's a good point you're making. It would still probably be a change in the typical Farang demographic.

[Soutpeel]

The Mighty Kwai is in desperate need of attention as his wine tasting thread fizzled out,please do not encourage him.

The Mighty Khwai, I like that!

(And it didn't fizzle out, it fell completely flat into the abyss from the get-go. Indeed people on this forum seem more into beer. )

I actually thought the tipple of choice for the vast majority of TV members was lao khao....

[samuibeachcomber]

Those of us who came here to retire because it was a cheaper place than back home may have to look for "cheaper pastures" in the future.However the main thing threatening retirees is not the cost of living increase in thailand(its easy to tighten the budget here)its the exchange rate fluctuations,low interst rates on savings,and the ever increasing threat to pension payments.

If thailand ever gets its act together and can raise the standard of living for its citizens by improving education,implement social welfare,good public health,finally deal with rubbish collection,water conservation etc it might get somewhere,but to do this taxes will have to rise and as a consequence wages will rise which will infate prices,then the current retirees will find it difficult to stay here.

The other needed to change is the concept of bribes,tea money,and the ever siphoning off of money allocated to provincial govts. to fix their area up.Take Samui,money was allocated to fix up the ring road around the island and make it all bitumen,only half was accomplished,probably because the money ran out,and the cause of this is the usual money in the back pocket "thank you very much".

And until they fix this problem of red shirts versus yellow shirts,thailand will be going nowhere.

Thailand is often very proud that they have never been ruled by a colonial power,but in hindsight it might have been very good for them in all areas of development.Their proudness of thailand for thais while admirable is i think a hinderance to moving forward.

Those of us that will no longer be able to afford thailand in the future will move to cheaper places,so yes the demographics of farangs in thailand will change.

[bendejo]

An economic uplifting will not happen overnight, and after the those pictures of burning buildings and a skyline filled with with smoke the delay will be even longer.

Something needs to be done about the ability of foreigners to own land (I'm talking houses here, not commercial property). At some point enough people will hear the stories of the farang who got married, bought property/opened a business in his wife's name, only to have it all snatched from under him by the loving Thai wife. Well, maybe not, there's one born every minute. But then they'll come up with new ways to cheat the foreigners on land deals; maybe they'll send people to Costa Rica (where lawyers are replacing muggers when it comes to robbing expats) to take lessons.

Malaysia looks up to Singapore, and tries to be like it. However only KL gets the upgrade, drive an hour or two and you'll see people living in rural areas haven't had much change in conditions. Everyone likes to say Malaysia has a higher standard of living than Thailand, but for the tourist that is only evident in the price of hotels: costs of food etc are close to same as Thailand. And those hotels are definitely not of better quality by default -- if anything cleanliness and maintenance is worse than Thailand.

The rural poor of Malaysia got a boost in recent years due to the rise in world commodity prices of rubber and palm oil.

I'm wondering when the backpacker "full moon" goons squad will find another place to be cool. Yeah, they may not be high rollers, but if they stay a month and spend US$1,000, well, multiply that by a few thousand...

I'd say the average lad in the t-shirt/shorts/flip-flops uniform spends more on beer than on accommodation.

[Soutpeel]

Thailand is often very proud that they have never been ruled by a colonial power,but in hindsight it might have been very good for them in all areas of development.Their proudness of thailand for thais while admirable is i think a hinderance to moving forward.

OW... ....methinks you are going to get slapped for that remark..

[morrobay]

Does anybody have any figures, or is this just the froth on the beer?

An immigration officer in the Pattaya/Jomtien office said that every year there is a 25% increase in retirement visas.

You can apply the compound interest formula here and it shows that in 5 yrs the population in this catagory increases by 3x.

Population yr.5 = Population yr.1 (1.25)^5 = 3.05

^ denotes raised to.

[bkkjames]

I think the Kwai is worried about having to fend off younger challengers to his crown as "Mr. Big Show" up there in the great NE? laugh.gif

There are less farangs living here compared to 5 years ago. You can sleep easier tonight and tomorrow knowing this.

Will WTK we won't have to worry about a farang explosion in Chiang Mai with bkkjames giving directions. He does not know where we are, North East? I don't thank so. laugh.gif

bkkjames is not the the bloke you want to be jumping into a taxi with at Swampers, <deleted> knows where you will end up!

sorry I didn't know they had buffaloes in Chiang Mai - only hear about Pandas.

[GarryP]

Thailand is often very proud that they have never been ruled by a colonial power,but in hindsight it might have been very good for them in all areas of development.Their proudness of thailand for thais while admirable is i think a hinderance to moving forward.

OW... ....methinks you are going to get slapped for that remark..

There is also the point that most countries which were colonized were colonized because they had something of value for the colonizer. What does that seem to infer? Not a comment I would share with most Thai's who are SO proud of never being colonized. I agree with beachcomber on this. At least BKK would have had a city plan.

Anyway, back to subject. I don't see numbers dropping so much, as pensioners will continue to seek out warmer climes and Thailand will continue to serve that purpose for some time to come.

[khunjake]

"Peak-farang"

Probably correct on this one as it doesn't take much thought to see why it has become tougher to live, work or retire or build a family here:

- Tougher immigration policies

- Stronger Baht, Weaker Western Currencies

- Weak savings rate and jobs growth for farang

- Political and legal instability along with corruption

- Chances of finding a stable relationship are very rare

[WinnieTheKhwai]

"Peak-farang"

Thank you. I'm claiming that one, as well as "Farang Explosion" as potential names for a band. Or a guava based fruit beverage.

Probably correct on this one as it doesn't take much thought to see why it has become tougher to live, work or retire or build a family here:

- Tougher immigration policies

- Stronger Baht, Weaker Western Currencies

- Weak savings rate and jobs growth for farang

- Political and legal instability along with corruption

Some of those are very short-term. I was hinting more at longer term trends. Currencies will go up and down, that's just the way it is. Also I think that instability and the general basketcasyness (yes, that's a word if you want it to be) of the country is actually an attraction. If I woke up tomorrow and Thailand had magically transformed into Sweden, I'd probably leave.

- Chances of finding a stable relationship are very rare

That must qualify as a good thing. Of course I've had very stable overnight relationships. Stability is not the same as endurance.

Edited June 4, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Soutpeel]

At least BKK would have had a city plan.

And we would be able to get a decent gin and tonic...

[NBD]

I think a drop off in farang arrivals (if there is one) is probably more to do with the current economic environment, inparticular the sthrength of the Baht against the Pound/Dollar/Euro etc. The same thing is happening in rural France - 5 years ago every other car in some areas was British, Dutch, German registered, and people were snapping up old farm houses left right and centre. Houses were cheap but otherwise France was pretty much on a par price wise with the other countries.

So long as Thailand has something to offer then many people will come here. People who have been here a long time say it's going down hill, but people who have been anywhere a long time say the same. To me, having been here a year, Thailand is great, and even at the current exchange rates (47b/GBP last time I looked, compared to about 60 when I got here and the mythical 72 it was before) it's still cheap.

I'm sure it will change over time, but as far as I can see Thailand still has a lot to offer western tourists and still will have in 20 years.

[My Friend Same]

You'll still get the bar goers meeting their future wives and moving to Issan. This will never change; not a chance

[Ulysses G.]

Well I first came to Bangkok in 1977...that's 33 years ago not 20.

It seems to me that the farang expat population then was more Americans and fewer British then. Perhaps that was because of those who came to Thailand from Vietnam or who originally came to Thailand with the U.S, military, then chose to stay on or return after they left the military. Also we had a lot of Americans working in the mideast then who chose to take their vacations in Thailand. There was also a large contingent of military retirees who make their homes up in Issan then, mainly around Korat I believe. There was an active Veterens Of Foriegn Wars (VFW) group in Korat. Many of those retirees have probably passed away by now.

In 1977 I met two WWII vets, both originally from Indonesia, who were from the Netherlands. They were both imprisoned by the Japanese during WWII....and both had stayed here afterwards and married a Thai wife. They were the last edge of the unintentional WWII farangs who came to Thailand after 1945.

I don't think the living costs will make that much difference. Thailand is still cheaper than many European countries, and the U.S. That will probablt be the case for a while.

Yes, the travel to Greece is less expensive than a ticket to Thailand...but as I live her in Crete...let me assure you hotels in Thailand are cheaper than they are in Greece. Greece or Spain are not the tourist bargains you might think they are...and the costs of a holiday in those places is growing as fast if not faster than in Thailand.

I remember when Thailand had a lot of Japanese tourists. There were a lot of Japanese only bars, with packaged "all included" sex tours for the Japanese male tourists. That seems to have peaked and dropped back to a lower level.

The point is, tourisim...who the tourists are and where they come from is a cyclical business. Sometimes Thailand is up, sometimes it is down in the popularity ranking. I expect it always will be the same.

So, bottom line, I expect the number and nationality of "farangs" in Thailand to go up and down in line with economic and other factors in those nations that supply the tourists. Yes, I expect there will be more Asians...from China and Hong Kong, as well as Singapore and Malaysia. But I don't expect the total of tourists and expacts will be drastically reduced. The ratio of nationalities may change...but I don't expect a drastic decline in the number of "farangs" coming to Thailand.

I have only been here 20 years, but I concur with 'IMA_FARANG' .

[jupiler]

People come people go.

15 years ago allmost everyone(in Europe) went for a summer holiday to Spain, now they go to Turkey,Egypt etc.

The big Thailand hype is over. And this has nothing to do with the political crisis or currency rate.

[Soutpeel]

People come people go.

15 years ago allmost everyone(in Europe) went for a summer holiday to Spain, now they go to Turkey,Egypt etc.

The big Thailand hype is over. And this has nothing to do with the political crisis or currency rate.

Maybe the "new" Thailand is Montenegro...

I agree that the Thailand hype is over, but as long as sex sells, Thailand will have its clientle..

[BigWheelMan]

People come people go.

15 years ago allmost everyone(in Europe) went for a summer holiday to Spain, now they go to Turkey,Egypt etc.

The big Thailand hype is over. And this has nothing to do with the political crisis or currency rate.

Khunjake

- Tougher immigration policies

- Stronger Baht, Weaker Western Currencies

- Weak savings rate and jobs growth for farang

- Political and legal instability along with corruption

- Chances of finding a stable relationship are very rare

A mixture of both of the above are right.

This is why I believe the tourist and ex-pat populations will go into decline in the foreseeable future.

[Jingthing]

What tougher immigration policies? Hadn't noticed.