Home Theatre Equipment 5.1

[JackA]

Had a HDMI input fail on an yamasha AVR fail and piyanas sent it back to yamaha themselves it took 2 weeks to fix and piyanas kept me informed with progress and cost by email and phone. As Yamaha is represented in thailand, I feel more confident buying their electronics, rather than a distributor - like Mahajak is for Denon.

Ewww... bad solderings used to be a sony thing. And I wonder if the info is correct, as I can't seem to confirm that anywhere. with a problem like that, at least a whole batch must have same problems, so a recall might be warranted - bad solderings are going to haunt you / Mahajak for a long time....

Sorry..did they replace the laser on your DVD?

[stgrhe]

Had a HDMI input fail on an yamasha AVR fail and piyanas sent it back to yamaha themselves it took 2 weeks to fix and piyanas kept me informed with progress and cost by email and phone. As Yamaha is represented in thailand, I feel more confident buying their electronics, rather than a distributor - like Mahajak is for Denon.

Ewww... bad solderings used to be a sony thing. And I wonder if the info is correct, as I can't seem to confirm that anywhere. with a problem like that, at least a whole batch must have same problems, so a recall might be warranted - bad solderings are going to haunt you / Mahajak for a long time....

Sorry..did they replace the laser on your DVD?

No, they said the unit worked perfectly after it was cleaned inside and got an updated firmware. The player is nearly eight years old and was bought in Singapore, then transported by me to Sweden, where I lived at the time. Three years ago, when moving to Thailand, I brought the player with me.

Yes, the thing with the bad soldering also struck me to be rather odd in these days.

Edited May 12, 2011 by stgrhe

[JackA]

I hope you finally will be able to enjoy the system - and I could not find any references to bad solder - looked in avs owners thread -google etc... Nada...none... Fiddling with the temp setting didn't help?...

I think you got a "monday" edition...

[stgrhe]

I hope you finally will be able to enjoy the system - and I could not find any references to bad solder - looked in avs owners thread -google etc... Nada...none... Fiddling with the temp setting didn't help?...

I think you got a "monday" edition...

Actually, on my request Mahajak run the unit open and blow hot air inside with a hair dryer. They hold a thermometer in the unit and it cut of due to too high temperature at 80 degrees Celsius. So the problem is most likely not in the temperature control circuit.

A Monday edition is probably what it is.

[JackA]

Do you think you could request an exchange? As solder problems shouldn't be an issue already.

did you notice if any boards inide the unit were flexing???

[stgrhe]

Do you think you could request an exchange? As solder problems shouldn't be an issue already.

did you notice if any boards inide the unit were flexing???

Yes, a swap has crossed my mind and the new service manager has also touched that subject. However, since he himself will be coming down from Bangkok to Prachaup next week I feel I should give them a final chance to correct the unit before arming the heavy artillery.

[astral]

The soldering issue suggest poor QA at the manufacturing level

and should justify a change of unit, provided the exchange unit does not have the same problem.

I am watching this thread with interest as I have my eyes on the Denon

but not if these problems are common.

Is this type of problem reported elsewhere?

[JackA]

Astral...

Been looking all over the web and at the owners thread, and have seen no mention of bad soldering. But I did see that there seem to be a problem with the NIC, after a certain fw update, but it seem to have been resolved with the latest firmware update. Best bet seem to be downloading the firmware update and use the USB update function.

The problem that I see is the poweramp section (not only Denon) are struggeling with almost any highend speakers. So a poweramp is recommended.

More functions, less weight same price = cutting cost somewhere. The Pre section gets real tangible improvements but the amp section is being skimped on. 7x125W = 2 ch driven @ 1KHz.

:

My old Yamaha max power consumption: 970W and have 2 x 18000 uF capacitors (7x 140W 20-20KHz) 19 kilos.

New Yamaha max power consumption: 400W with 2 x 100000uF capacitors (7 x 140W @ 1KHz) 10.2 kilos.

I think the old rule still applies - weight implies, solid amplification.

[JackA]

By the way... I would strongly suggest this one - I have seen / heard it and it's even better than the legendary Z7 - http://www.piyanas.com/productdetail.php?cat=146.154&id=2474〈=en〈=en

with the small price difference (vs denon 3311ci) I wouldn't hesitate to make that one mine...

Edited May 14, 2011 by JackA

[stgrhe]

By the way... I would strongly suggest this one - I have seen / heard it and it's even better than the legendary Z7 - http://www.piyanas.c...lang=en〈=en

with the small price difference (vs denon 3311ci) I wouldn't hesitate to make that one mine...

Well, I paid only 50,000 baht for the 3311 and as I use it, with a NAD power amp., it really sounds great, when it plays ball that is . Also the video scaling is superb although that function is not so important to me. The main negativity with the Denon 3311 is that it doesn't have five-channel analog inputs. If you use a high-end player that unit has in most cases a better D/A converter than what the AVR can produce.

Edited May 14, 2011 by stgrhe

[JackA]

Well since you have a denon player, I presume the Denonlink can be used... That is really a shame - concerning the multichannel input, and in that case the oppo bdp 93 might be a better (and) cheaper bet for you. The only advantage the 95 have is better D/A converter on the analog side. Read all about it here:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/oppo-bdp-93

[stgrhe]

Well since you have a denon player, I presume the Denonlink ™ can be used... That is really a shame - concerning the multichannel input, and in that case the oppo bdp 93 might be a better (and) cheaper bet for you. The only advantage the 95 have is better D/A converter on the analog side. Read all about it here:

http://www.audioholi...rts/oppo-bdp-93

Actually I have never tried the Denon link so I do not know how good it is. Yes, buying the Oppo BDP 93 instead of the 95 has crossed my mind given the circumstances. Unfortunately I didn't do my homework when I selected the AVR 3311, because had I known it lacked five-channel analog inputs, I would have bought another model. Silly me I assumed it had one .

[JackA]

At least you could bypass the avr all together and plug the M.Ch. straight into your poweramp, and use the oppo volume control but be careful, as the oppo volume default = 95%.

[stgrhe]

I have taught of that too but it is too risky although the NAD power amp. has limiters for each channel so in theory it is possible.

The unit that had suited me better than the AVR 3311 is probably the Marantz AV7005 pre-amp/processor, which is virtually the same as the AVR 3311 minus the power amp. part. The AV7005 has indeed analog multi-channel inputs as well as XLR outputs. Whether these XLR outputs are fully balanced or not I haven't figured out yet. I did check-out the older AV8003 but that one was much too expensive and lacked many of the features the AV7005 has. Any idea of the price for the AV7005 here in Thailand?

[Benjie]

I think the retail is 80,000 Baht but I'm sure you could get it for a lot less.

I run an old SR8500 which sounds great and is really well built (and heavy) - the newer gear doesn't seem quite as well built IMO.

[stgrhe]

For the benefit of you fellows, who have provided many good replies, this is how my set looks like:

The main system with the Denon AVR 3311 on top, the Denon A-11 in the middle and the NAD T975 power amp. at the bottom. To the far left is the Velodyne DD-10 sub. and the large white front speakers are the Magneplanar MG 1.7. The center speaker is difficult to see as it is painted in black piano lacquer, but it is the Martin Logan Motion 8.

Close-up photo of the AVR, the DVD and the power amp.

Close-up photo of the sub. The Velodyne DD-10 has a built-in 1,000 W PWM amplifier (Class D).

The surround speakers, Martin Logan Motion 4.

Close-up photo of the Martin Logan Motion 4.

[JackA]

Beautiful setup - and that even makes it worse that you have the problems. If you sort out the Denon problem, I might be able to help you, to get what you aim for.

Edited May 15, 2011 by JackA

[chrgrims]

i have bought lots of denon throughout the years, but your story and my own lately has me wondering. i have a denon amp that i must reset quite often. im off to bkk tomorrow for other business, but i will also go look for a 2-channel used amp, possibly at mr balance.

[JackA]

If you're looking for a 2nd hand stereo amp,may I suggest the following...

http://www.piyanas.com/productdetail.php?cat=120.360&id=1284〈=en〈=en

Powerful, with dual mono build and most reasonable price.

[stgrhe]

Beautiful setup - and that even makes it worse that you have the problems. If you sort out the Denon problem, I might be able to help you, to get what you aim for.

Thank you for that.

The sound is still a little bit hard as I have only played the new speakers about fifty hours or so. The Maggies need another fifty hours and the Martin Logans about twenty-five to be fully broken in. Also, as my floor is tiled I will eventually buy a large rug to dampen the sound reflexes. However, shopping for hand-made Persian or Kashmir rugs are a thing of the past, and I am instead looking for a good quality Chinese rug.

[stgrhe]

Today a new toy was added to my set as I finally installed the Squeezebox Duet that I bought almost two years ago. Streaming of the music I have om my computer works well and the sound is really great. I also tested some internet radio stations with good result. The Squeezebox Duet was quite easy to set-up and the software quick to download despite a rather poor instruction manual.

My Denon AVR 3311 has behaved well for a couple of days but after about three hours playing today it cut off again and then another three times before I gave up for the day. Apparently Mahajak's service manager is paying me a visit sometime early next week.

[stgrhe]

I now start to see a pattern with the problematic AVR. Now with the squeezebox I can play music over longer periods without having to be stand-by and change discs, which has enabled me to carry out more intensive testings.

When starting the AVR 'cold' it plays for between 2 and 4 hours before cutting off. After restart, it plays for between 30 minutes and 1 1/2 hours before it cuts off again. Then after another restart it cuts of between 5 minutes and 15 minutes. After yet another restart the AVR has never managed to play for more than 5 minutes.

These observations have been noted from five days of intensive playing and reported to Mahajak's service manager, who says he will report this to Denon in Japan. Mahajak's service manager is, by the way, coming down to Pran Buri from Bangkok tomorrow (Wednesday) to see for himself.

Edited May 24, 2011 by stgrhe

[stgrhe]

Yesterday the service manager of Mahajak came to my home in Pran Buri to pick up the troubled Denon AVR 3311 och the poorly repaired Denon DVD A-11. He admitted that, when he paid a visit to Denon in Japan last year, Denon knew this series of AVR's, i.e. 1311, 2311, 3311 and 4311, were released too early to meet competitors, especially Onkyo's, release date of their new series of AVRs, despite not having been fully tested. It starts to look like how the computer manufacturer and software companies act.

Another thing I was told, not related to my case though, is that Mahajak will stop marketing their higher end stuff as sales in that category has been very poor over the past years. Apparently Mahajak intend to clear their higher end stock soon.

[JackA]

3311 vs 3310:

what is new?

- HDMI 1.4a with support for 3D and ARC

- dual HDMI outputs

- Audyssey DSX built in (instead of having to pay for an upgrade)

- Audyssey MultEQ XT (instead of regular MultEQ) and Audyssey Pro capable

- Front USB port now supports direct iPod/iPhone connection

- New network features like Pandora, Flickr, Rhapsody, slightly better DLNA support

- i/p control interface for remote tech support

- Dual subwoofer outputs (mirror image, not independently filtered)

- New, improved one-sided remote

- The 3311CI has 5 more watts per channel.

what is gone?

- No more switched outlets on the rear

- Fewer legacy inputs:

... One fewer S/PDIF input (2 optical / 2 coax on new model instead of 2/3)

... One fewer Component Video input (2 instead of 3)

... Fewer s-video and composite video legacy inputs, one fewer analog audio input

... No more EXT IN multichannel analog inputs

It seems weird that this (pre)release should be rushed, as the differences are minor to previous model.

I do realize that incorporating the new Audyssey might have an impact. Also the Dual subwoofer outputs are dual mono...

Just wondering - Opening the Yamaha Z7 and the much older v2700 - the similarities are striking. PSU+Heatsink+filter caps

are identical. I would think - once you have a good design the alterations are minor which in case is why they can "spit"

out new models at the current rate, and not let the consumer be "beta" testers.

[stgrhe]

Finally my troublesome AVR has been repaired after the third attempt. It turned out to be one of the circuit board that had a poor connection in one of the multilayer circuits.

Since Mahajak's technicians failed to find the fault during their first two attempts, I asked their service manager to start swapping board with another unit to see whether the fault remains or moved to the other unit. This procedure is common practice, but it appears that Mahajak had no clue what to do. Having said that, their new service manager seems to be a bright guy, educated in the UK and New Zealand and graduated in Australia, and he admits there currently are a lot of shortcomings in the company, although he is claiming he is working the problem.

Given my experience with Denon's distributor here in Thailand I will definitely not buy anymore Denon products as long as I live here. I should have bought a NAD AVR despite its lesser performances. Conice is, in my book, a very professional company and comparing them with Mahajak is like comparing night and day.

With regards to my player, the Denon A-11 that wouldn't play SACD or DVD, was proved to have a small piece of plastic inside blocking the laser - and this unit had been thoroughly cleaned by Mahajak, or so they claimed. I say no more!

[astral]

I asked their service manager to start swapping board with another unit to see whether the fault remains or moved to the other unit. This procedure is common practice, but it appears that Mahajak had no clue what to do.

Amazing. Board swapping is a standard procedure.

No one tries to repair individial boards these days,

and it is well nigh impossible with modern multilayer boards