Thai Immigration Cancells Visa And Blacklists Composer Mickhail Pletnev

[webfact]

UPDATE

Thai court permits Russian musician Pletnev to leave country for second time

Russian musician and conductor Mikhail Pletvev, accused of child sex abuse in Thailand, on Wednesday again obtained permission to leave the country.

"I appealed to the court through my Thai lawyer for permission to leave the country again. My mother's birthday is in a few days and I cannot and don't want to miss it. The lawyer has just told me that permission had been obtained," Pletnev told RIA Novosti.

full story: en.rian.ru

-- RIA Novosti

2010-07-21

[LaoPo]

^^^^

Maybe International news about Mr. Pletnev got a bit too much in the way for the irrevocable withdrawal of his VISA....

LaoPo

[snaggletooth]

I do think that it's no more fair to say that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles than it is to prejudge the accused, nor an intelligent way of responding to the media, which everyone knows can't be taken seriously. The United States is crawling with them, they're loudmouthed and arrogant even where employed in school systems. Thankfully, I've not found myself required to share space with people like that or with heavy substance abusers, in fact, of the many people I know in Thailand, none of them are like that, so I'm proud and happy to be here. In the states, I couldn't get away from them. I hope and pray for a fair resolution of this tragic event, and encourage Thailand (and everyone) to be fair, reasonable and forgiving.

At last...a voice of reason. Well said sir!

You have got to be kidding

Is this serious? Working with pedophiles all over the u.s.? They're loudmouths? Crawling with them? What planet are you from.

[Grey13]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

They've stopped his visa so he can't come back and face charges.

What if influential people from whichever country have found a way to let him go free without Thailand losing face.

The Thais can't prosecute him because they've put him on a blacklist and won't let him back into the country.

I wonder who gets to keep all the guy's assets in Thailand. Hasn't he got houses and businesses all over the place?

Makes you think.

Some of you are totally missing the point. The guy CAME BACK LAST WEEK AND REPORTED TO COURT JUST AS HE SAID HE WOULD DO. After his court appearance he told the press, he came back to prove his integrity, and to show he's a man of his word. He also stated he knows who is behind the charges, and that it's pretty much a frame up. THAT is not what the Thai courts expected. They figured he would not come back, but when he did, and reported to the court as he was supposed to, they had to come up with something else. So, cancel the visa and blacklist him, even though he's hasn't been found guilty of a single thing.

If I were the Russian Ambassador, I would be DEMANDING a meeting with Abhist and voicing my serious disapproval of what is going on, and then call a major press conference with every news media, local and international, and totally trash the justice system here in Thailand, exposing it for the corrupt entity that it really is.

Who really gives a dam_n what a Russian Ambassador has to say? The Russians are taking over organised crime all over Thailand. Do you think these rich Russians who were Communists and some former KGB officers word is worth a dam_n?! If you think Thailand is crooked, try Russia where every citizen is terrified of the police & the court system. How many tens of thousands of Russians do you thing are in the Russian prisons where they guards turn their heads and allow rape and murder every single day? Russia is not part of the West and cannot be compared, even with Thailand where people have many more rights than the average Russian. But, this guy is a rich Russian and expects to be treated as royalty in Thailand just as he has been treated in Russia.

[kenai]

The government is corrupt as is all they control.

Why any foreigner would do significant business here is beyond me. Might as well tattoo a big red bulls eye on your forehead.

[warfie]

I just hope he, the child and anyone else involved, get the justice they deserve... whatever that may be...

[petedk]

Does anyone read the Thai newspapers?

I just spoke to a group of Thais who claim that "all Thais know he is a Mafia leader" and that his resort "is just a big brothel" "He deserves to be thrown out".

So they have also condemned him without a trial.

Poor guy. I hope justice is done.

[jfchandler]

Any links to these stories about him being accused elsewhere?

Here's one of the Thailand-based news reports I remembered reading previously on the subject....

Pattaya Daily News, repeating other media accounts

[Chunky1]

So this guy paid off the Thai government to cancel his visa so that he "can't come back"... It means the police got paid and he can now say "See, I was innocent afterall!".

[MickGC]

IMHO Grey13 understands the situation more than most of the other posters. But <deleted> do I know ?

[george]

Update:

Thailand revokes visa of Russian maestro on rape charge

BANGKOK, July 21, 2010 (AFP) - Thailand has cancelled the visa of Russian conductor Mikhail Pletnev, meaning he faces deportation even if child rape charges against him are dropped, an immigration official said Wednesday.

"The Thai immigration bureau has blacklisted him on the grounds that his behaviour is detrimental to Thailand," said Major General Pansak Kasamsan, deputy commissioner at the bureau.

"His Thai visa was automatically revoked after his name was blacklisted," he said. "He would eventually be deported whether it goes to trial or the charges are dropped."

Pletnev, artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra, was charged in early July with the rape of a 14-year-old boy in Pattaya, where he has a house.

He denies the charge, which carries a sentence of up to 20 years in jail, and was released on bail.

The award-winning maestro was allowed by a Thai court to travel overseas but is required to report back every 12 days. He returned to Thailand over the weekend after attending a music festival in Macedonia.

Pletvev told Russian media Wednesday that he had been given permission by the court to leave the country again. It was unclear whether the cancellation of his visa would affect his travel plans.

"My mother's birthday is in a few days and I cannot and don't want to miss it. The lawyer has just told me that permission had been obtained," Pletnev told RIA Novosti.

Pletnev, 53, founded the Russian National Orchestra in 1990 just before the break-up of the Soviet Union and his arrest has sent shock waves through Russia's musical world.

He is a member of President Dmitry Medvedev's advisory council on culture and art, and in 2005 won a Grammy award for best chamber music performance.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-07-21

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

It was unclear whether the cancellation of his visa would affect his travel plans.

<snip>

Not so much the cancellation of his visa, but certainly the blacklisting would seriously effect any plans to re-enter Thailand.

[iko]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

Very aptly put Wozzit,.. you nailed all the fundamental dynamics and the Thai system of logic, saving face and hypocrisy in one.

If the Thai authorities were at all confident of the allegations and evidence then surely they would be falling over themselves to usher him back into the Kingdom where he can be arrested, tried, convicted and locked up.

The entire legal system and judicial process in this country is a sham and a joke. Thailand is fast set to become the everlasting laughing stock of the international community.

"The entire legal system and judicial process in this country is a sham(e) and a joke". I'm italian and i'm sorry to say that in italy (legal) things are not better at all. I don't know about other "more civilized" countries, but I don't feel I have less rights

here than in Italy. Sad, but true. BTW I've always been treated more than fairly by thai cops and they could have screwed me quite easily if they were so rotten and bad as they are often depicted here and somewhere else...

[DefaultName]

him and his school teacher husband moved here from san francisco to play hide the sausage with the few lady boys here in thailand

As long as the ladyboys are adults, where's the harm in that?

[Hardie]

He just returned to Thailand to fight the case.

And so the giant stink if they kick him out now will go world wide.

Another instance of embarrassed officials shooting off at the mouth first,

then considering the consequences later...

I suspect someone has eyes on his properties too...

So he won't be allowed to fight the charges, but blacklisted without a day in court,

or will he and it proves a set up by the scumbag who dimed him out?

And of course a real embarrassment for the whole police bureau that perp-walked him,

and took what they thought was a easy pay off to let him go perform,

never expecting him to return of course.

The tripe mixed with bile gets deeper by the hour.

AS THE WEST IMPOSES ITS VALUES ON THE EAST, THINGS GET MORE CONFUSED HERE. ONCE UPON A TIME,I TOOK JUDO LESSONS FROM A KOREAN, LONG BEFORE THIS ISSUE (PEODOPHILIA) WAS A SPOKEN WORD. HE EXPLAINED TO ME A CHINESE CUSTOM, OF OLD MEN LYING WITH YOUNG TWO YOUNG GIRLS, HIS HANDS ON THEIR VAGINAS, IN AN ATTEMPT TO ABSORB THEIR YOUTHFUL ENERGY. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR ANCIENT CUSTOMS, WHICH WE INTERFERE WITH. WHILE SOME SEEM BARBARIC AND ARE, THE HARM WE DO BY IMPOSING OUR VALUES ON THEIR BELIEFS ARE LIKE THE IGNORANT IMPOSING THEIR WILL ON THE LEARNED. WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND SO COMPLETELY TO DISMISS ANCIENT VALUES SO TRIVIALLY. WITNESS THE CHINESE NOW OVERWHELMING THE TIBETAN CULTURE WITH THE SAME RESOLVE; IT IS ALL IN ONE VEIN--A LACK OF RESPECT. THERE MUST BE SOME HAPPY MEDIUM HERE, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF INSIDEOUS WESTERN MOTIVATIONS OF EXPLOITATION, BUT IN TERMS OF RESPECTING THE TRADITIONS OF PEOPLES WE ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT ABOUT. WE CANNOT BE TOTTALY RIGHT OR MORAL IN A WORLD OF RELATIVITY.

EDIT:

Do not post your reply in another members quote and do not post in CAPS. It is considered shouting- mario2008

Insidious Western customs? World of relativity? Don't try to hide your perversions behind quasi-philosophic psycho-babble, 'Odysseus'. You need help.

[Rimmer]

One unsubstantiated accusation deleted

[Wozzit]

<snip>

It was unclear whether the cancellation of his visa would affect his travel plans.

<snip>

Not so much the cancellation of his visa, but certainly the blacklisting would seriously effect any plans to re-enter Thailand.

Surely he couldn't re-enter? So how can he defend himself? How can he have the opportunity to clear his name and to resurrect his career? Make no mistake, he has been crucified in the media worldwide and unless he can clear his name, his career is dead for many years. I have suspected a set-up right from the start of this charade, and comments like this -

"The Thai immigration bureau has blacklisted him on the grounds that his behaviour is detrimental to Thailand

- before any proof has been provided and the case has been tried in Court, makes me more than ever convinced about it. This whole shambles is a total and utter disgrace. As I said before, I hope there is an international outcry about justice denied in this country.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Wozzit

[-jr-]

So this guy paid off the Thai government to cancel his visa so that he "can't come back"... It means the police got paid and he can now say "See, I was innocent afterall!".

An alternative to the popular story here in TV, which usually involve evil Thais plot against saintly non-Thais.

If he's guilty and has a way to make sure that his visa will be revoked, he'll be blacklisted and expelled, this would be the best way out. He wouldn't have to stand trial and his position in the media will change from a suspect of paedophile case to a victim of the authorities. He returned, but didn't have a chance to fight in court, very heroic. His reputation won't be ruined. It's probably the most elegant way to get out of this mess in case that he's guilty.

If he's innocent and came back with intention to prove his innocent, I'm sorry for him that he ran into this problem. I hope he could manage to sell/manage his properties in Thailand, but it still sucks when you are banned the country you started to get used to.

Anyway, it's none of our business to judge both him and the person who expelled him, unless you know any of them.

It amazed me how people who kept muttering, "Innocent until proven guilty", didn't waste much time before they accused police, immigration, etc. And many Thai-haters posts are still not moderated. TiTV?

[Jingthing]

Assuming he beats the charges (there are strong hints in this latest news that he will) and he is kicked out Thailand, won't he have to forfeit all his massive assets here? Do the math.

[kuffki]

Assuming he beats the charges (there are strong hints in this latest news that he will) and he is kicked out Thailand, won't he have to forfeit all his massive assets here? Do the math.

Pattaya Immigration will take care of that

[elcent]

with the revokation of the visa he wont be able to leave the country until the case is finished. It doesn't matter if the visa is revoked or not. The court may not grant another leave for these reasons until the case is finished.

[Jingthing]

Assuming he beats the charges (there are strong hints in this latest news that he will) and he is kicked out Thailand, won't he have to forfeit all his massive assets here? Do the math.

Pattaya Immigration will take care of that

Frankly time will tell, but this is sounding like a face saving theater for both sides. He beats the charges or they are quietly dropped (but that would be a loss of face for the police/Thai authorities), kick him out (WHY? if not guilty!) ... to save face. Give and take, and maybe give up all his Thailand assets, which reportedly are a lot.

[iko]

He just returned to Thailand to fight the case.

And so the giant stink if they kick him out now will go world wide.

Another instance of embarrassed officials shooting off at the mouth first,

then considering the consequences later...

I suspect someone has eyes on his properties too...

So he won't be allowed to fight the charges, but blacklisted without a day in court,

or will he and it proves a set up by the scumbag who dimed him out?

And of course a real embarrassment for the whole police bureau that perp-walked him,

and took what they thought was a easy pay off to let him go perform,

never expecting him to return of course.

The tripe mixed with bile gets deeper by the hour.

AS THE WEST IMPOSES ITS VALUES ON THE EAST, THINGS GET MORE CONFUSED HERE. ONCE UPON A TIME,I TOOK JUDO LESSONS FROM A KOREAN, LONG BEFORE THIS ISSUE (PEODOPHILIA) WAS A SPOKEN WORD. HE EXPLAINED TO ME A CHINESE CUSTOM, OF OLD MEN LYING WITH YOUNG TWO YOUNG GIRLS, HIS HANDS ON THEIR VAGINAS, IN AN ATTEMPT TO ABSORB THEIR YOUTHFUL ENERGY. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR ANCIENT CUSTOMS, WHICH WE INTERFERE WITH. WHILE SOME SEEM BARBARIC AND ARE, THE HARM WE DO BY IMPOSING OUR VALUES ON THEIR BELIEFS ARE LIKE THE IGNORANT IMPOSING THEIR WILL ON THE LEARNED. WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND SO COMPLETELY TO DISMISS ANCIENT VALUES SO TRIVIALLY. WITNESS THE CHINESE NOW OVERWHELMING THE TIBETAN CULTURE WITH THE SAME RESOLVE; IT IS ALL IN ONE VEIN--A LACK OF RESPECT. THERE MUST BE SOME HAPPY MEDIUM HERE, NOT JUST IN TERMS OF INSIDEOUS WESTERN MOTIVATIONS OF EXPLOITATION, BUT IN TERMS OF RESPECTING THE TRADITIONS OF PEOPLES WE ARE JUST PLAIN IGNORANT ABOUT. WE CANNOT BE TOTTALY RIGHT OR MORAL IN A WORLD OF RELATIVITY.

EDIT:

Do not post your reply in another members quote and do not post in CAPS. It is considered shouting- mario2008

Insidious Western customs? World of relativity? Don't try to hide your perversions behind quasi-philosophic psycho-babble, 'Odysseus'. You need help.

And Traditions can change. Aside from the "2 vaginas empowering energy" (sic) I should remember that some years ago burning 'witches' alive was a very fine tradition in Europe. So, no point in defending "things" just because they were supposed to be a tradition some time ago...

[JohnLeech]

Perhaps someone who understands Thai law better than myself can clarify or confirm, but I was of the understanding that any foreigner who is charged or arrested automatically has their Visa revoked/cancelled and also is automatically blacklisted. I'm assuming also then that if that person is found Not Guilty after a Trial, they are then able to have this reversed.

I did some research for those that are interested (click here) . . . don't know how accurate it is but seems like #6 and #7 would apply in this case.

Good post I would tend to put 8 on the list also.

"it seems" the two of you are reading a very different link to me:

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgment of the Thai Court ….

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public ….. or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

He hasn't been imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

Maybe you can conjure up something else out of thin air.

Edited July 21, 2010 by JohnLeech

[Wozzit]

with the revokation of the visa he wont be able to leave the country until the case is finished. It doesn't matter if the visa is revoked or not. The court may not grant another leave for these reasons until the case is finished.

Russian media is reporting the Court gave him permission to leave again and he is planning on going to Moscow for his mother's birthday later this week prior, he hopes, to returning for the next bail hearing. Remember also the original reports said if he was in the country, the police would apprehend him and escort him to the airport for deportation. So someone wants him out of the country before that next Court hearing.

http://www.mn.ru/int.../187942294.html

Frankly time will tell, but this is sounding like a face saving theater for both sides. He beats the charges or they are quietly dropped (but that would be a loss of face for the police/Thai authorities), kick him out (WHY? if not guilty!) ... to save face. Give and take, and maybe give up all his Thailand assets, which reportedly are a lot.

It certainly is no face-saver for the Russian. Without the chance to clear his name in court, he is for all time branded as a pedophile. He's forever guilty. Withdrawing the charges will only add to the conviction that he's been set-up and the Thai government wanted him out of the way before their case collapses. It may save face, but he still loses everything. Imagine yourself in his position (assuming he is innocent)! I'd be near suicidal, I think.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Wozzit

[moe666]

I can imagine that the Russian embassy will have something quite strong to say about this, and that Colonel Somchai with his deportation stamp may well get into some private poop over this one.

and i can imagine that the Russian Embassy (which most probably arranged the "elegant" face saving deal for all involved parties) will have not much to say. that he could leave the country posting a peanuts bail amount speaks volumes.

would any of us mortal Farangs be allowed to keep his passport and leave the country if accused of a crime that might carry a 20 year sentence?

Naam yous is the only post here that actually makes sense, maybe why no quotes or references. Another sordid affair gone bad.

[stepenwolf1958]

This is typical in the judicial system of Thailand. Why is anyone surprised here? He returned to Thailand a few days ago. Obviously,he is not afraid of dealing with the court. He has influence and power and money to do it very successfully in Thailand so he is back.

The question remains who and why dislike he is back? Among Thais, who is affraid of truth?

When he left Thailand, they all thought they had escaped and will not return. Woman from the Department for the Protection of Children, was very angry in medias that authorities was not able to prevent his "escape" as she said.

A few days ago she was probably happy he is back and she will have publicity in media. Unfortunately now she will be confronted with the real face of the situation. She will never understand why his visa is canceled when it means he will not be in trial. Since he is in Thailand, the withdrawal of visa means he will be deported.

She will think this is scandalous but she will not dare to complain. She will understand what is going on.

In my opinion, if he is not guilty cancel his visa will only even more force him to drive them out for all to end. In this case, all will see that it was just one more try to extort some money from farang in dirty way, as Thais always do in such cases. This is neither the first nor the last case. But in this case it's not about tourists or retirees.

Greedy and stupid Thais who wished to extortion money makes no distinction between international affirmed figures such as Mikhail Pletnikov and a bacpack farang or senile and old and retired farang in Thailand.

This time it will have its price and possibly international publicity, because Mikhail is well recognized expert and person and he will not stop.

If he can not attend the trials of his lawyer can.

THEY wanted him on trial-now they don't want him anymore so they let him go but now HE WANT THEM.

There is another thing.

Mikhail Pletnikov is the influential man. His friends are not only musicians but also politicians. But even if this was all hushed up in diplomacy that is a huge disgrace for Thailand.

Disgrace is equal if Mikhail Pletnikov paid some big money for this.

Will be interesting to follow whole situation and to see next move of Mikhail Pletnikov.

[Jingthing]

Logically, being accused of a crime but not convicted, shouldn't normally put you on a blacklist. Something fishy, yes? As far as name clearing or not, that remains to be seen. If they drop the charges, there is no conviction, why is that so bad? If a trial is held and he is found not guilty, obviously that would mean more. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if there is no conviction, he DOES get his life back. As far as being depressed/suicidal, what could possibly be more depressing than getting sent to Thai prison on a long sentence?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Jingthing

[iko]

Thinking that the guy is innocent just cause he came back to thailand is a bit too much. I'm not a cops fan, but i seriously doubt that an innocent man is pedo-charged for nothing. I guess most of us think the same here (thai legal system aside...)

Strange ... I thought I just read about George, from Pattaya, being found Not Guilty after spending a year waiting on remand for his day in court after being "pedo-charged". Must be my memory playing up, as I would hate not to "think the same".

I didn't say it never happened that someone was charged and not guilty (that's normal everywhere) just that the "framing" hypothesis by the cops was un-realistic to me. I don't know about george but if we are depicting a thailand where any day you can be accused to be a pedophile just to extort you money, i do not agree at all and it doesn't match the reality that i know.

[jayjay0]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

Very aptly put Wozzit,.. you nailed all the fundamental dynamics and the Thai system of logic, saving face and hypocrisy in one.

If the Thai authorities were at all confident of the allegations and evidence then surely they would be falling over themselves to usher him back into the Kingdom where he can be arrested, tried, convicted and locked up.

The entire legal system and judicial process in this country is a sham and a joke. Thailand is fast set to become the everlasting laughing stock of the international community.

"The entire legal system and judicial process in this country is a sham(e) and a joke". I'm italian and i'm sorry to say that in italy (legal) things are not better at all. I don't know about other "more civilized" countries, but I don't feel I have less rights

here than in Italy. Sad, but true. BTW I've always been treated more than fairly by thai cops and they could have screwed me quite easily if they were so rotten and bad as they are often depicted here and somewhere else...

Life would be so much cheaper if the cops were as bad as some of these posters suggest. My Thai wife could have just given the cop 200 baht for no helmet but no he had to give her a ticket and now she has to go to the police station and pay 400 baht.

A few posters have suggested that the Russian police are corrupt. That would explain why he was not found guilty of two previous charges.