Kajonkietsuksa School Phuket

[paulrobertlane]

Thanks OP, great inside info. Very similar to my experience having 2 kids there for a few years.

If violence from thai teachers would be limited to smacking with a ruler, it would be close to legal and acceptable. Unfortunately its worse.

INCORRECT! It is 100% illegal for any school employee to hit a child in a school in Thailand.

Of course, we know it goes on, and in some schools is common, but that does not make it legal and there is no such things as "bordering on legal", it either is or it isnt.

http://thaiteachers.wordpress.com/the-law/

As the law is one of common assault the police are powerless to act, under Thai law, without a plaintiff. However if you file a police report they are duty bound ( and WILL) take up the case. 99% of the time they simply negotiate with the schools i.e. no court actions taken, however the more visits a schools gets from the police the more likely they are to stop.

The law also states that "any school employee who hits a child should be immediately dismissed" - of course the directors never tell the teachers this as directors are exempt from punishment as common assault charges can only be brought against the individual concerned and not against the school or its directors unless it can be proven they actually ordered, or carried out, the beating. EVERY single time teachers are caught (and believe it not not many are jailed every year) directors deny all knowledge.

Many parents will not file police reports for fear of reprisals against their child (or they agree with the punishment perhaps). However the plaintfiff does NOT need to be related to the case. Anyone can file a police report provided they have some level of evidence.

Usually a few visits from the police, or local press, are enough to make them stop it - temporarily!

[Somtamnication]

As the videotaped beatings at the local temple school this past week confirms.

[KarenBravo]

As the videotaped beatings at the local temple school this past week confirms.

Beatings? That's quite an exaggeration. They were slaps.

[paulrobertlane]

As the videotaped beatings at the local temple school this past week confirms.

Beatings? That's quite an exaggeration. They were slaps.

True but one thing people forget is that it is just as illegal to hit softly as it is to cane hard. The law specifically forbids "all forms of corporal punishment" including doing sit ups, squats etc as well as hitting.

Whatever we think personally about CP do we want criminals teaching our kids? The law governing this is the criminal offence of common assualt - hit a kid in a school and you commit a crime, end of really!

[katabeachbum]

True but one thing people forget is that it is just as illegal to hit softly as it is to cane hard. The law specifically forbids "all forms of corporal punishment" including doing sit ups, squats etc as well as hitting.

Whatever we think personally about CP do we want criminals teaching our kids? The law governing this is the criminal offence of common assualt - hit a kid in a school and you commit a crime, end of really!

and to prove this crime, in reality you need 2 adult witnesses or a video. Wounds do not count, they where just an accident. The witnesses will have to be interviewed by Police, public prosecutor and appear in criminal court in about two years time.

It is still more common than not to use CP countryside, but as with everything else Thailand is developing to western norms

[Somtamnication]

As the videotaped beatings at the local temple school this past week confirms.

Beatings? That's quite an exaggeration. They were slaps.

Really, Karen? Towards the end, one slap sends the kid to the floor. That was not a slap, but a thrash. I am not going to get into it with you by splitting hairs.

Slap, thrash, all the same in my book. Where I teach, I hear it in stereo from these idiots. Classroom to my left and classroom to my right. It does not make it right.

[KarenBravo]

Slap, thrash, all the same in my book.

Never said it was right, but, I obviously don't "read from your book".

[Valentine]

As the videotaped beatings at the local temple school this past week confirms.

Beatings? That's quite an exaggeration. They were slaps.

Really, Karen? Towards the end, one slap sends the kid to the floor. That was not a slap, but a thrash. I am not going to get into it with you by splitting hairs.

Slap, thrash, all the same in my book. Where I teach, I hear it in stereo from these idiots. Classroom to my left and classroom to my right. It does not make it right.

IMO a hard slap on the side of the head has the potential to cause damage either to the ear drum or the brain itself especially if done on repeated occasions. For chrissakes the video shows this punishment being handed out to little kids supposedly for not doing their schoolwork properly. When I was at school the fear of being strapped on the hand or caned on the backside never entered my head when I played up & CP certainly did not help improve my academic potential but teachers who provided praise & positive encouragement certainly gave me the incentive to try harder.

[KarenBravo]

I said that it isn't what I call "a beating" and I stick by that.

Rights, wrongs, potential injury; I haven't mentioned a single word.

Amazing how some people can build a complete house with only three bricks.

[barka]

Here we go again jumping to conclusions,The Thai authirities will deal with this,they have already started [read the report in the local press] i dont condone beatings but sometime some punishment is necessary.TIT i hope they dont go too far the other way, like in the UK where a teacher can not touch a child for fear of being prosecuted...

its all about getting the right balance,the punishment can also be used as a deterent,it certainly worked in my school days,there are to many do gooders,and common sense seems no longer used...if i thought i was going to get punished eg caned,ti certai'ny made me think twice before i did wrong,sometimes you have to teach fear with fear,thats the only thing some poeple understand,

[FritsSikkink]

As the videotaped beatings at the local temple school this past week confirms.

Beatings? That's quite an exaggeration. They were slaps.

There was 1 puch and 1 slap that hard that the kid lost balance.

The teacher got an anger problem which isn't handy when you have to manage a lot of (sometimes anoying) kids

[Somtamnication]

I think we are starting to piss off the Thai apologists...shhhhhhh!!!!!

[katabeachbum]

I think we are starting to piss off the Thai apologists...shhhhhhh!!!!!

Thai teachers often one person in charge of 2 classrooms with 45 kids in each room, need to be firm

or

For todays teachers, who grew up being beaten every day, it comes natural to beat children

is this what you where looking for

Thailand has come a long way in reducing domestic violence and violence in schools past decade. still a long way to go tho

[pacceka]

This school requires its own unofficial website. Here it is: kajonkietsuksa dot asia - will be up and running within a week or so. It will have a forum for more people to have their say.

[simon43]

I know this is an old thread, but my questions are on topic.

I've been teaching primary homeroom (in Thailand unpaid from 2002 - 2011) and now in Yangon for about 18 months, also middle school Maths & Science, also adult/IELTS. However. my family home and businesses for many years are in Phuket. So I'm keen to get teaching employment back on the island.

Kaj were advertising for NES grade 2 and 4 teachers for their international program, and I duly applied. I've been passed over for those positions, but have been offered to teach English to Matayom kids in their EP program. (I have an Engineering MSc from London University, an in-class TEFL, and will follow the online PGCEi course from Nottingham University later this year).

Hmm ... I never indicated any prior experience in teaching English to high school kids, but whatever.... The starting salary is 40,000 baht before tax/WP etc.

Is it possible for those who teach at Kaj, or those who send their children to this school to provide an update to their views about the school? (No libelous comments please).

The bottom line is whether or not I should take a chance with Kaj - for family reasons. Or whether I should remain in my 60,000 baht after tax position in Yangon.

Bear in mind my age (54), and that I'm not looking for career progression, but rather for stable employment close to home. Getting a job with BIS seems unrealistic at my age, and Kaj really looks like the only viable alternative.

My general opinion of Kaj over the years is not good, (based on parent/teachers comments), so I would be happy to be corrected.

Thanks for any comments

Simon

Edited April 4, 2013 by simon43

[Somtamnication]

Simon, my views on that school are well known.

Have you tried ELT? They are advertising in the local rag. And they start off at 42k.

There is currently a huge pissing contest between the two brothers and their aunt, who owns the school. And it is creating havoc at both locations. 'nuff said. And 40% of the newbies are not returning for the new term and tons did not show up for work after xmas holidays.

[simon43]

Thanks for replying. ELT is an option, but I really feel that my qualifications and experience are better used in a 'tier 2' international school.

I've just come back from a successful job interview with another international school in Yangon. 84,000 baht after tax is on offer, plus $320each time for my 70-day visa runs to BKK, plus paid CPD courses plus, plus.... It's a little better than my average take-home pay in my current job in Yangon.

I will do a Skype interview with Kaj tomorrow, but I'm really doing it in the hope that they'll recognise that I am more suited to teaching primary in their international school program.

[steelepulse]

I don't know ELT, but based on the numbers and feedback from somtamnication and other threads about Kaj, I'd take the higher pay and less grief option in Burma. I know a few teachers that were at Kaj and none of them liked the strict regimen and long hours they were put under.

[Somtamnication]

I'd work at ELT, but they have contracts at the county (orborjor) schools with a newish EP at Rawai, Banabon, Suan Luang Park and others. They are slowly creeping into these schools. Great pay for a teaching job at a govt school.

Unfortunately, I taught at one of their schools, prior to ELT's "birth" and got caught filming the infamous 8 a.m. after-the-anthem-time-to-bamboo-the-matayom-students thingy and was politely asked not to return the following term. So I doubt I can work for them.

However, above average pay.

I have heard good things with Kj's intl. program. But, same family, so like, hell no!!!

[SDM0712]

We moved here just over two years ago from North London and have a boy coming up to 6 years old. He is intelligent although what I would describe as a "bit of a handfull". I looked at all the schools prior to putting him in Kajonkiet EP. I met with the school manager before deciding and after doing a lot of research on the schools jn Phuket. At the time the opening post had all but put me off the school. One of the questions I asked is if the teachers hit the kids. He told me that if a teacher hit a child that they would be out the same day, whether that applied to EP only I don't know. I believe that under Thai Law now it is illegal for the kids to be hit, but I could be wrong on that.

In any case, my sons K2 teacher was a lovely woman from Canada who has now unfortunately left, and K3 teacher an American chap. I can confirm that my son loves going to this school and is very attached to his teachers, both Thai and English speaking. He has never been hit, he has never been abused in any other way as a form of punishment.

He now speaks fluent Thai, and of course English. I am delighted with this school and do not have a bad word to say about it.

However I would say that the school expects a high standard of teaching and in my opinion poor teachers that would be allowed to teach in the UK system, would not be permitted here. It is quite possible that the school puts enormous pressure on the teachers to perform. My only comment to this is " welcome to the real world", results count.

SDM

[Somtamnication]

The reason for their high turnover rate is not due to the teacher's lack of qualifications or love of their students.

It is against the law to hit a child at school, as is the authorization by a parent to the school, to hit the child. More than happy to send you the pdf with translation.

And here is an interesting article. http://thaiteachers.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/kajonkietsuksa-school-phuket/

[SDM0712]

I thought that.

Although have heard about the high turnover of teachers at Kajonkiet. My son's K2 teacher had been at the school for around 5 years and K3 teacher a similar time. I have yet to meet the P1 teacher.

I read the artificle with I interest, I have heard this before. Normally when my son starts a new year I speak to the teacher and tell them that they will receive my full backing with regard to discipline, but if anyone hits my child it will not be a complaint to the school that they need to worry about. Having son that, I can only go on my personal experience, my son has never been hit, nor have any of his class mates.

SDM

[paulrobertlane]

One of the questions I asked is if the teachers hit the kids. He told me that if a teacher hit a child that they would be out the same day, whether that applied to EP only I don't know. I believe that under Thai Law now it is illegal for the kids to be hit, but I could be wrong on that.

Assuming this is K Permkiat - he will say whatever you wish to hear.

I have PMd you the email details of a parent who is currently putting together a log of every time a beating occurs (to her knowledge and that of the other parents in the group). I will leave it to you do contact her and decide on its validity. I CAN however say that the two teachers that we have given evidence against in the last year are BOTH stil working at the school. One of these had video evidence - what he says in your quote is 100% untrue.

[backstairs]

I know this is an old thread, but my questions are on topic.

I've been teaching primary homeroom (in Thailand unpaid from 2002 - 2011) and now in Yangon for about 18 months, also middle school Maths & Science, also adult/IELTS. However. my family home and businesses for many years are in Phuket. So I'm keen to get teaching employment back on the island.

Kaj were advertising for NES grade 2 and 4 teachers for their international program, and I duly applied. I've been passed over for those positions, but have been offered to teach English to Matayom kids in their EP program. (I have an Engineering MSc from London University, an in-class TEFL, and will follow the online PGCEi course from Nottingham University later this year).

Hmm ... I never indicated any prior experience in teaching English to high school kids, but whatever.... The starting salary is 40,000 baht before tax/WP etc.

Is it possible for those who teach at Kaj, or those who send their children to this school to provide an update to their views about the school? (No libelous comments please).

The bottom line is whether or not I should take a chance with Kaj - for family reasons. Or whether I should remain in my 60,000 baht after tax position in Yangon.

Bear in mind my age (54), and that I'm not looking for career progression, but rather for stable employment close to home. Getting a job with BIS seems unrealistic at my age, and Kaj really looks like the only viable alternative.

My general opinion of Kaj over the years is not good, (based on parent/teachers comments), so I would be happy to be corrected.

Thanks for any comments

Simon

Getting a job at BIS at your age is not unrealistic.

[simon43]

Getting a job at BIS at your age is not unrealistic

Yes, I concede that now, but it is unrealistic right now because I have not yet completed my PGCEi qualification, (well, I haven't started it yet - I'll complete this next year). I also understand that BIS generally will only employ teachers with both PGCE and UK teaching experience (QTS).

As a general update, I have now returned to Phuket to seek new employment. I politely declined the Kaj job offer, and explained to them that I did not feel qualified/experienced enough to teach the subject on offer. Since that date, I have applied to Kaj in response to teaching vacancies that did fit my background, but I've yet to get any response from them.

I had a job interview today at a school in Phuket Town. The job sounded fine, but boy, has the traffic got worse over the years! I really do not want to spend 2 hours commuting each day for a job that only pays 30,000 baht.

I have a meeting tomorrow with a local technical college that is only 5 minutes away from my home. I'll report back later on that meeting.

Simon

[SDM0712]

One of the questions I asked is if the teachers hit the kids. He told me that if a teacher hit a child that they would be out the same day, whether that applied to EP only I don't know. I believe that under Thai Law now it is illegal for the kids to be hit, but I could be wrong on that.

Assuming this is K Permkiat - he will say whatever you wish to hear.

I have PMd you the email details of a parent who is currently putting together a log of every time a beating occurs (to her knowledge and that of the other parents in the group). I will leave it to you do contact her and decide on its validity. I CAN however say that the two teachers that we have given evidence against in the last year are BOTH stil working at the school. One of these had video evidence - what he says in your quote is 100% untrue.

I got your PM and have e-mailed that parent, but nothing back yet. I am left wondering however if her child has been repeatedly beaten for so many years why an earth she would keep the child at the school after she became aware of this these alleged "beatings", there are many schools in Phuket. I understand from your PM that the last incident was very recent.

I have also been appearing at the school at various intervals, and all I see is happy smiling kids. These claims have most definitely concerned me, but I cannot see any evidence that any of this is true or current. Believe me when I say if I see a teacher beating my son the very last thing they would be worried about is being reported to OPEC, whatever that is. Incidentally I also have a personal friend who is a teacher at the school and I have asked my friend about this and it seems my friend is unaware. Also, the word "beatings", is very emotive word and makes one think of a frenzied sustained attack of slaps or punches. Surely this kind attack would leave several marks on a child.

I have heard of teachers in Thai schools carrying in like this, but only by rumor.

My mind is open, but I don't really accept that kids are beaten at the school, certainly not EP anyway. I can't speak for ESP as I have no direct knowledge.

Regards

[phuketsub]

My daughter did kindergarten at Kajonkietsuksa EP, liked it very much and adored her teachers...I never remember her mentioning anyone getting hit. She also did one term at Darasamuth regular program, which she hated -- the atmosphere there seemed a lot more strict, though again no reports of students getting hit. Now she is in a mainstream Thai school. She is in a dance troupe and sometimes gets hit if she makes a mistake, but she accepts this as part of deal of being on the team, which won a national championship. Even though her coach sometimes hits her, she adores him; so I think he must be doing it in a controlled kind of way, if that makes any sense.

In my own experience growing up (US in the 60-70s) I was never hit by any of my teachers, but was subjected to some really cruel mental punishment. I remember one teacher name "Miss Paris" who humiliated me by making me stand and hold her handbag at the front of the class and thoroughly enjoying it when all the other kids laughed at me.

I remember the humiliation vividly, but not what I did to bring it about. Looking back I think a smack with a ruler would have been far less abusive. I guess my point is that sometimes mental abuse can be just as, if not more, harmful that controlled physical discipline.

[SDM0712]

One of the questions I asked is if the teachers hit the kids. He told me that if a teacher hit a child that they would be out the same day, whether that applied to EP only I don't know. I believe that under Thai Law now it is illegal for the kids to be hit, but I could be wrong on that.

Assuming this is K Permkiat - he will say whatever you wish to hear.

I have PMd you the email details of a parent who is currently putting together a log of every time a beating occurs (to her knowledge and that of the other parents in the group). I will leave it to you do contact her and decide on its validity. I CAN however say that the two teachers that we have given evidence against in the last year are BOTH stil working at the school. One of these had video evidence - what he says in your quote is 100% untrue.

I have now heard from this parent and understand the situation. What people need to understand is that Kajonkiet is three schools and I write this to parents who have been worried, as I have about these post and accusations of child abuse. There is the English Program (usually called EP), an International Program, and an English Support Program (ESC). All EP classes have a native English speaking and qualified lead teacher with a Thai assistant teacher and the International, as far as I know, only have native qualified English speaking teaching staff. The ESC program is pure Thai and really is a Thai school with an element of teaching English as a second language. Although EP (Kindergarden) and International share the same building, ESC does not, in fact it is several kilometres away. They are three completely separate schools and this needs to be understood.

I have been so concerned by this that I have been asking many questions and have been appearing at the school (EP) at various times and observing the classes, easy to do as it is so open. I have not seen or heard of any example of a child being hit. The reason I have been so concerned is that I have heard all this before. But as happens sometimes well meaning people have just got there facts a bit wrong and in so doing caused confusion and concern.

Just before my family moved over and I was visiting the local schools, I went by mistake to ESC and lets just say that I am not surprised at what I have heard here. It is a Thai school, run by Thais to a level accepted by Thais. I can't comment on the eventual educational standards, which are supposedly good, but I would not send my son there. Having said that I wouldn't send him to any other Thai school either.

My son, as with all of his friends, are very happy at this school. He has never been hit as a punishment. He started the school as a four year old arriving fresh from the UK and not really speaking Thai. Now he speaks Thai to the same level as a Thai child, continues to speak English at the same level as a British child of the same age, and can also read and write in both languages to the same level as his contemporaries. I am very happy with the school.

[fiddlehead]

I just have to chime in here to say that I was hit quite a few times in school growing up in the states in the 50's and 60's.
I know I deserved it every time.
I was the guy who used to put spitballs on the typewriters, or tacks on the teachers seat and feel no animosity towards the teachers who hit me. (just mad at myself for getting caught sometimes)

I think I turned out OK. (I'm sure others would differ on that)

[bearpolar]

I just have to chime in here to say that I was hit quite a few times in school growing up in the states in the 50's and 60's.

I know I deserved it every time.

I was the guy who used to put spitballs on the typewriters, or tacks on the teachers seat and feel no animosity towards the teachers who hit me. (just mad at myself for getting caught sometimes)

I think I turned out OK. (I'm sure others would differ on that)

Most people arent scared about their children getting hit. It's knowing that Thais will unlikely know what FORCE to use and WHERE to hit.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a teacher hitting a 4yo quite hard on the head as they have not been taught basic biology/action & consequences.

Anyways thx for the post about ESC EP and international. After years of bad posting on this school i find it quite odd that no one mentioned that the bad stories apply to the ESC program(and even after visiting the site i had no idea that they have an ESC school)

Edited May 31, 2013 by bearpolar