Locating Fuel Filter And Jets

[lennya12threh]

I want to do some inspection, cleaning or replacing depending on the conditions. Kawasaki Victor 150cc.

Attached is a pic. On the far right you can see the fuel line going into the carb, and just to the left, the choke. Before I had this all taken apart including that black piece in between the carb and the engine, and it all looked spotless and clean so put it back together. I did notice that grey metal piece that the fuel line goes to (from the tank) and the choke is located on, could be taken apart into 2 or 3 pieces but didn't bother at the time.

So where is the fuel filter and the jets located here? Also, what is that big black box that says RIS on it stemming from beside the carb. Before I had it off but couldn't find any way to open it. It always seems moist with fuel or oil or something but can't figure out where it could be coming from.

The bike still has an issue where it starts to run shitty, and wale in mid rpms, loosing all power and sounding like it is getting starved of fuel. But it only happens when the engine gets hot, but it never over-heats. For the first 5 minutes, every time, it always drives great and is full of power. It just starts to have problems after 5-10 minutes of driving. I haven't been using it much recently, and still also need to go check if the piston for this model is supposed to have 2 rings or 3 rings. I was told if this is off it will result in a lose of power as it gets warmer, until it seizes. I got the piston changed 3 months ago and got a 2 ring piston put in to replace the 2 rings that was already in it.

Edited August 20, 2010 by lennya12threh

[Richard-BKK]

Keihin carburetors sets the idle mixture screw during assembly and seals the screw under aluminum plug to prevent an owner from changing the setting.

[lennya12threh]

It idles fine and I don't think this part would have anything to do with the problem. The problem seems to be when it gets hot, though it never overheats. The temperature is normal, it just has some other problem that seems to be connected to the temperature. When it is just "warm" and "warming up" it runs great and has normal power.

[thaicbr]

Lenny. Maybe someone here can help you.

http://2strokeclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=12440.60

I would ask for a good 2t mechanic rather than doing it yourself. worth a try

[lennya12threh]

Yea. I just got a nice response from some forums from kawasakikips.com .

Apparently if it's jetted too lean it will have power when it's cold, but when it gets warm/hot it will loose it's power.

He answered all the other questions like where the filter and jets are and what that black RIS box is. Tomorrow I will take it apart again and inspect it and focus on the fuel filter this time. Then probably take it to KAWA and ask for new stock jets. The guy said that the kips engines are all 2-ring stock from factory so the piston should be ok. Before I thought it may have been from the piston from another response I got from thaivisa saying if there is the incorrect amount of rings it will lose power as it gets hot and then seize.

It does sound like it's being starved of fuel tho as it get hot, so maybe there is too much air and not enough fuel in there. It can't be a 2T problem anymore now for sure and it seems like the piston isn't the problem.

I just need to know how to say "jets" in Thai and in the right context. And this will not be done at your average mindless Thai mechanic shop either.

Edited August 20, 2010 by lennya12threh

[thaicbr]

<br>Yea. I just got a nice response from some forums from kawasakikips.com . <br><br>Apparently if it's jetted too lean it will have power when it's cold, but when it gets warm/hot it will loose it's power. <br><br>He answered all the other questions like where the filter and jets are and what that black RIS box is. Tomorrow I will take it apart again and inspect it and focus on the fuel filter this time. Then probably take it to KAWA and ask for new stock jets. The guy said that the kips engines are all 2-ring stock from factory so the piston should be ok. Before I thought it may have been from the piston from another response I got from thaivisa saying if there is the incorrect amount of rings it will lose power as it gets hot and then seize. <br><br>It does sound like it's being starved of fuel tho as it get hot, so maybe there is too much air and not enough fuel in there. It can't be a 2T problem anymore now for sure and it seems like the piston isn't the problem. <br><br>I just need to know how to say "jets" in Thai and in the right context. And this will not be done at your average mindless Thai mechanic shop either.<br>

<br><br>how to say jets in Thai is easy..... jets.. and show a picture.   or 2 Edited August 20, 2010 by thaicbr

[lennya12threh]

well I'd like to replace all of them if needed.. needle jet, jet needle, main jet, pilot jet, air screw, slider valve..... and have it looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at... i've done some research but still couldn't do it myself..

it's probably the easiest to just get it all replaced, but i'm not sure if one will just be able to look at the inside of the carb and figure out which part is the issue.. maybe it's something as simple as the main pilot air screw making it too lean...

[thaicbr]

lenny. take it down to Kawa on rama9. phone and book it in. They will know exactly whats required.

[Lickey]

well I'd like to replace all of them if needed.. needle jet, jet needle, main jet, pilot jet, air screw, slider valve..... and have it looked at by someone who knows what they are looking at... i've done some research but still couldn't do it myself..

it's probably the easiest to just get it all replaced, but i'm not sure if one will just be able to look at the inside of the carb and figure out which part is the issue.. maybe it's something as simple as the main pilot air screw making it too lean...

Sounds like the crank seals are shot,

[lennya12threh]

dam_n i have no fuc_king idea what that is.

[Richard-BKK]

dam_n i have no fuc_king idea what that is.

I'm confident that it's not the crankshaft seal, if it was the motorcycle would have a hard time starting and it would be difficult to keep it running at idle. While a two-stroke engine with a crankshaft seal leak will have less problems at higher rev-range.

My idea is also to check the exhaust pipe, and especially the end can. Over time a two-stroke's exhaust system cloaks with dirt, oil, scum and carbon deposits and needs decarbonizing. Depending on the last time the exhaust system was cleaned, it can effect mid-range performance to complete performance... all the way up to the motorcycle to do anything more then running idle...

Edited August 21, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[lennya12threh]

hi. thanks richard. yea I put a new end piece on it not long ago and got the exhaust cut open, cleaned and welded shut.. at that time the performance increased unbelievably, but gave way to this other problem..

im going to set up an appointment to get all new stock jets put in at Kawa, carbo serviced, etc, and hope that the problem lies in a clogged jet or something, rather than something more complicated, pricey, and the most annoying, hard to diagnose with Thai mechanics...

[Lickey]

Lenny, if i remember, you bought this bike from a farmer somewhere, he used it to go to his farm and potter around the village ect, its about 15 years old?

You posted before about smoking ect and converting it to fuel mix, no problem there,and getting the exhaust cleaned out,

You say it seems to run lean at revs, this would suggest a timing side seal leaking, and it still smokes? this could be a primary drive side seal leaking, Check you gearbox oil level, if its low, could be the engine is sucking in the oil, causing smoke, if its the other seal, it will suck in air causing a weak fuel mix, you could have the engine pressure tested, or just have the seals replaced for peace of mind,,,

[lennya12threh]

Yea that was me. Now there is no 2T problem and it smokes consistently and no excessively. Enough to see if you look but not enough to really notice if your just driving, or were to watch me driving it. Yes it seems like there is engine starvation as it gets warm most noticeable in the mid rpms before the power band, but still a bit noticeable if it hits the power band. The engine oil and cooling solution has always remained at the appropriate level since I changed the piston.

Which seal were you referring too that might let air in if it was too worn out?

While I'm at Kawa I could get them to replace the engine seals too. I'm sure it wouldn't cost too much.

How much should it cost to replace the carb jets and engine seals? Cheap parts, but relatively complex labor.

[VocalNeal]

Have you replace the spark plug with a new one of the correct heat range?

Just a thought maybe the choke is slightly "on". Some carb don't have a choke plate that blocks the inlet they have an enrichment device that is a separate jet which is blocked by a rubber gasket when not "on". Follow the choke cable. If it ends at a large brass nut on the carb then that is what you have. Could be that the rubber has deteriorated and adding unwanted fuel.

I am still in Prakanong and still have an aircon shop. If you bring beer.

Edited August 22, 2010 by VocalNeal

[lennya12threh]

What kind of beer do you like?

Edited August 22, 2010 by lennya12threh

[MaiChai]

You like to change your bikes. Last time I was in contact with you, you had a GSX and a Sonic. Have you still got those? Now you have KR? Once tried a KR but the Thai guy decided not to sell it. Nice sized bike. Might buy one, one day

I still have your NSR 150 SP; havn't done much with it. Been out of country working. Send me a PM when you have free time.

[lennya12threh]

I forgot about that thing. I'd like to try it out and see how it compares to my Victor. I think the Victor is a bit faster but has an issue. The NSR probably just needs some general maintenance to get its youth back.

I first had a Honda Wave when I came, then upgraded to a CBR150, then a VFR 400, then got an NSR to go along with it, then sold both of those and got a GSXR-750, then got a sonic to go alone with the GSXR, but later sold the Sonic, then the GSXR broke down so I got this Victor to use while it got fixed. The GSXR got fixed and then I had two usable bikes, but the t.hen I sold the GSXR shortly after and now only have the Victor. I sold the GSXR because I'm planning on going to back to Canada to get an Engineering degree.

Little runk right now and should go tend to thw wife.

[Lickey]

Yea that was me. Now there is no 2T problem and it smokes consistently and no excessively. Enough to see if you look but not enough to really notice if your just driving, or were to watch me driving it. Yes it seems like there is engine starvation as it gets warm most noticeable in the mid rpms before the power band, but still a bit noticeable if it hits the power band. The engine oil and cooling solution has always remained at the appropriate level since I changed the piston.

Which seal were you referring too that might let air in if it was too worn out?

While I'm at Kawa I could get them to replace the engine seals too. I'm sure it wouldn't cost too much.

How much should it cost to replace the carb jets and engine seals? Cheap parts, but relatively complex labor.

Sorry Lenny, ive no idea of prices ect, the way i used to test for induction leaks on all engines is with a can of Easy-Start, its an Either spray, usally to help big diesels to get started in very cold climates, overuse of this was said to have made the engine reliant on this to get started, bit like a drug addict,,

Spraying this stuff round the inlet manifold of Petrol and Diesel engines is a quick way to determine if the gasket was at fault, the engine note would change at tickover, with 2 strokes, its a bit more complicated, do the manifold tests when the engine is hot, then remove the [opposite side to primary drive] cover, spray either as near as possibble to the turning crank where it comes out of the crankcase, again,if the engine note changes, the seal is leaking,

With the drive side seal, best you can do is check the GEARBOX oil level, and the exhaust smoke smell, if it smells like roasted peanuts, could be a problem with that seal also,,

Thing is, Seals, like us tend to get old and weak, they loose there abbility to expand in the engines heat, they go very hard and crack on the mating surfaces, also seals have a small spring inside to help them adjust to the crank diameter, or bearing surface,, considering the age of your bike, i would go for crank seals, and do you think the ex owner would have changed the jetting??

[lennya12threh]

I don't think the ex-owner would have done much and he it doesn't seem like he ever put it over 4k rpm.

If the jet needle is that skinny shaft/needle thing that is in the middle of that main slider valve that opens and closes when you give it it throttle, then it think this may the problem. It does have it's issues from 1/2 to 3/4 throttle mainly and that is what the needle jet/ jet needle is responsible for.

The thing is, this little needle-shaft thing is not fit in place and it movable as if it is loose in it's place. It can probably move like a mm or two on each side if you touch it (you have to hold open the throttle to expose the shaft enough to touch it).

Is this the jet needle? I hope you all can understand what I'm trying to convey.

[thaicbr]

LENNY. Three words.......................Kawasaki Rama Nine. then it will be sorted. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

[Richard-BKK]

Maybe this helps to locate the items...

[thaicbr]

Good. Lenny now you have lots of pictures to take with you to KAWASAKI RAMA 9

[MaiChai]

I forgot about that thing. I'd like to try it out and see how it compares to my Victor. I think the Victor is a bit faster but has an issue. The NSR probably just needs some general maintenance to get its youth back.

I first had a Honda Wave when I came, then upgraded to a CBR150, then a VFR 400, then got an NSR to go along with it, then sold both of those and got a GSXR-750, then got a sonic to go alone with the GSXR, but later sold the Sonic, then the GSXR broke down so I got this Victor to use while it got fixed. The GSXR got fixed and then I had two usable bikes, but the t.hen I sold the GSXR shortly after and now only have the Victor. I sold the GSXR because I'm planning on going to back to Canada to get an Engineering degree.

Little runk right now and should go tend to thw wife.

I think you mean drunk? Same wife as before?

KR and Victor are identical; just a different headlight/fairings.

NSR would be faster if it was lighter. Does the job. Maybe I should get a KR when I come back Something to play with. Need to sell some bikes; I have too many of them.

When I buy a Thai bike I just borrow the parts book from a local bike shop and copy it. Makes servicing/maintenance much easier. All the parts are exploded and you can see how everything goes together.

Edited August 25, 2010 by MaiChai

[lennya12threh]

Yes, the same wife as before. Since I've been here I was only with one at first for 4 months, then switched to this one and have been with her for just over 1.5 years ever since.

Well I tried to find some other pictures, and it looks like yes, the thing I was touching was the jet needle (in the middle of that valve, that shaft that remains there when the throttle is wide open) and it is defiantly wobbly and "lose-feeling."I'm not sure if this is normal or if it is suppose to be snug and stiff to the touch, but the problem does seem to be at 1/4-3/4 throttle. But I actually just realized. The problem isn't at a certain throttle point. It is at an rpm point. It struggles in mid to highish rpms, but still does ok when it hits the power band. WOT at say 5k rpm is like shit, but WOT throttle at the power band is fine. 1/2 throttle at 5k rpm is shit, but half throttle at the powerband is ok. So now I just confused myself. This can't really be a carb issue because the problem isn't based on the amount of throttle that is given, but rather rpms and also the heat of the engine.

Uh, oh....

Though it could still be because it is running lean as it gets bad performance when it is hot (naturally runs leaner), but good performance when it is cold. Best to still get the carb redone and have the engine seals replaced...

Edited August 25, 2010 by lennya12threh

[MaiChai]

Sent you a PM.

You probably need to take the cylinder head off and take a look inside. I had to get my TZR re-bored, and a new piston installed. 800 baht for the machining and new piston rings that I had to install myself. Spark plug would get flooded with oil from the gearbox so getting through the piston rings. Its nice to know the condition of the piston/cylinder on an old bike (unless it works perfectly). The cylinder will wear oval shaped towards the bottom of the cylinder

Could be a leak somewhere or even the reed valves. Check the rubber mounting between carb and crank case, plus any expansion boxes? Reed valves are worth taking out/inspecting/cleaning. They should be flush fitting without any gaps.

What about the power valve; is that working properly without any leaks? Is it setup properly? Cables not frayed?

Or take it to Kawa Rama 9

[thaicbr]

Maichai...... "Or take it to Kawa Rama 9 "

Fantastic advice

[VocalNeal]

Spark plug would get flooded with oil from the gearbox so getting through the piston rings.

Not to mention how the oil from the gearbox got into the crankcase?

Sounds like we are heading back in the direction of the flux capacitor.

Lennya. Just let me know when you are coming over. Theoretically anytime is OK but.........

have you found a B9ES spark plug or should I start looking?

Edited August 26, 2010 by VocalNeal

[lennya12threh]

Yo. Neal I have not found another spark plug. I may have this one already but if I have an extra one thats ok too.

Not sure when I'll go. I'd like to go on Sunday as you recommended, but it depends on how much work we get at our place. Sunday should be ok.

Where is it exactly? PM if ya want.

Also, about Kawa Rama 9. Do you think they will actually be able to take the bike for a ride, see what I mean and diagnose the problem? I fear the issue may be too complex and most Thai mechanics don't have the ability to truly diagnose something like this. (checking seals and air leaks, etc) I know I can tell them to just re-jet the carb and I'm sure they can do it, but fear they won't really have any insight or problem solving abilities. Only found a couple guys that could but they have big bike shops and don't work on the little ones.

[thaicbr]

Kawa rama 9 are THE Kawasaki trained mechanics. Reading back through some of Tony's posts i would think they Would sort it in LESS time than it has taken you to post on here

Seriously Lenny you have a solution to the problem Take it to Rama 9 BEFORE you bugger it up. If they can't fix it (unlikely)what have you lost except a few hours. tell them carb problem when hot then leave them to it.