Thailand'S Worst Drivers

[sillyman99]

No, contrary to Thais, the majority of westerners are actually educated in driving, traffic laws and regulations; both practically and theoretically before being licensed to drive a motor vehicle on public roads.

So why do so many Farangs drink and drive ?

And it's not just a few that do it, I've lived here full time for nearly 20 years and nearly all of the Farangs that I know who drink and have a car or Bike drink and drive on a regular basis, would they do that in their own country so willingly ?

I don't think they're as responsible as you claim. And yes I think Deeral has a point, the ammount of posts on this site expressing the view that Farangs are superior to Thai people in every way imaginable backs up his point.

I have met some very poor Farang drivers and very good Thai drivers also the other way too, but I honestly can't say that ALL Thai drivers are bad or ALL Farang drivers are good.

Many Farangs are certainly paranoid here in Thailand, that's for sure.

They're all out to get you, and if they don't get you, then Farangs like me in a Fortuner might.

[Deeral]

I think before anyone tries to comment on Traffic Engineering they might at least ry and find out what it is.It is fairly clear from these replies that most of the posters don't have a clue about driving/road safety or drivers behaviour. however that aside they seem very content to slag off Thai drivers and other road users as "worst" or interior to themselves. As their criteria are highly suspect I can't see how they can voice and opinion.

If you are going to express an opinion on driving - why not research - any critical thinker will tell you that personal experience and "nape-of-the-neck" assumptions are not te way to go yet that is what almost all of the content here is based on.When confronted with some rational thought on the matter the posters then become aggressive. Why be aggressive when with a little bit of time you can learn?

(As of course - contrary to several opinions voiced here - so can Thai people )

[WarpSpeed]

Yes they believe rightly or wrongly that they are more tuned to the driving needs and re-engineer far too much of the system at any given time with their own poor attempts at engineering. One major example is them employing longer light cycles instead of shorter ones to move more traffic more quickly by not letting it back up as much but come every rush hour they take charge of the lights manually and there you have it..

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Thaddeus]

why not research - any critical thinker will tell you that personal experience and "nape-of-the-neck" assumptions are not te way to go yet that is what almost all of the content here is based on.When confronted with some rational thought on the matter the posters then become aggressive.

Here we go again with the comment about critical thinking (something that you have mentioned in more than one topic).... so is it, those that can do, those that can't do teach, and those that can't teach do some research and some critical thinking about it.

Strikes me that you have little or no practical experience on a wide range of subjects, do you just sit at a computer all day, eating pop tarts and just agreeing with the opinions that agree with yours.

Your comments about traffic engineering are pointless (and yes, I do know what it means) it just doesn't work in this country, and never will until at least basic road sense is instilled into all the people using the road (pedestrians included) and until the basic regulations are enforced by a competent police force.

Therefore... probably not in my life time.

[richard_smith237]

Nothing to do with THAI behavior, Thai road behavior, to be frank, is very selfish. I let people out of spaces, signal for them to turn in front of me, what happens, they don't move, can't believe a driver is being civil and thoughtful, so your arguments are eeer rubbish.

I've noticed this on a number of occasions - Give way to someone while on the Road in Thailand and it so alien they don't know what to do, driving with a self centered, me first, me me me attitude is so ingrained and generally accepted in Thailand that any alternative is met with shear confusion....

Perhaps some public service road safety / consideration infomercials on Television slowly help. 'The Don't Dazzle, dip your head lights' campaign in the UK is one I remember. There could be a 'Don't be selfish campaign', I've saw something similar in Malaysia a couple of years ago.

[richard_smith237]

why not research - any critical thinker will tell you that personal experience and "nape-of-the-neck" assumptions are not te way to go yet that is what almost all of the content here is based on.When confronted with some rational thought on the matter the posters then become aggressive.

Here we go again with the comment about critical thinking (something that you have mentioned in more than one topic).... so is it, those that can do, those that can't do teach, and those that can't teach do some research and some critical thinking about it.

Strikes me that you have little or no practical experience on a wide range of subjects, do you just sit at a computer all day, eating pop tarts and just agreeing with the opinions that agree with yours.

Your comments about traffic engineering are pointless (and yes, I do know what it means) it just doesn't work in this country, and never will until at least basic road sense is instilled into all the people using the road (pedestrians included) and until the basic regulations are enforced by a competent police force.

Therefore... probably not in my life time.

I must add that it may seem like aggression to Deerai but it really is about our thoughts of his stupidity in not understanding that farangs have been taught the basics to be safe on the road, not 100% but at least we know what is right and what is wrong. .

I've known teachers in the UK who turn white at the thought of some of their students being in control of a vehicle a few years down the line.

[canuckamuck]

I don't think any of us here believe that all westerners drive well. There are many of horrendous drivers in my country. But the difference is that in Canada (for example) everyone knows who the bad drivers are because there is a standard that the majority has no problem keeping. Now in Thailand, it is impossible to observe drivers upholding a good driving standard, because it simply isn't possible. In fact good drivers have to forget some of the basic rules simply to keep in the flow of traffic. For example stopping at a fresh red could easily get you killed. Why would someone brought up in this system know any better. It is a matter of conditioning and once again a lack of enforcement.

I don't think race has anything to do with this at all. A Thai brought up in a country with high driving standards would drive just as well as anyone else. My wife is Thai, and she is an excellent and safe driver. But on trips to Canada she has mentioned to me that doesn't think she could drive safely in Canada because she doesn't know the rules.

Edited September 3, 2010 by canuckamuck

[Thaddeus]

Perhaps some public service road safety / consideration infomercials on Television slowly help. 'The Don't Dazzle, dip your head lights' campaign in the UK is one I remember. There could be a 'Don't be selfish campaign', I've saw something similar in Malaysia a couple of years ago.

I've made that point to other ex-pats here when the subject has been raised, I think that it could work, especially if it was endorsed by a well respected authority (you know who I mean)

[Deeral]

why not research - any critical thinker will tell you that personal experience and "nape-of-the-neck" assumptions are not te way to go yet that is what almost all of the content here is based on.When confronted with some rational thought on the matter the posters then become aggressive.

Here we go again with the comment about critical thinking (something that you have mentioned in more than one topic).... so is it, those that can do, those that can't do teach, and those that can't teach do some research and some critical thinking about it.

Strikes me that you have little or no practical experience on a wide range of subjects, do you just sit at a computer all day, eating pop tarts and just agreeing with the opinions that agree with yours.

Your comments about traffic engineering are pointless (and yes, I do know what it means) it just doesn't work in this country, and never will until at least basic road sense is instilled into all the people using the road (pedestrians included) and until the basic regulations are enforced by a competent police force.

Therefore... probably not in my life time.

I must add that it may seem like aggression to Deerai but it really is about our thoughts of his stupidity in not understanding that farangs have been taught the basics to be safe on the road, not 100% but at least we know what is right and what is wrong. .

Well that comment merely illustrates that you really haven't understood a single word I've posted.

[Deeral]

ActuallyI think you're right......

basicallythis thread in common with many others illustrates the banality ofthought of many posters.

Thesubject – attempting to link cars to stereotypes of drivers ordriving is so simplistic as to be infantile and the rest of thecomments boil down to one thing

“Faranggood driver, Thai bad”

Whatno-one apart from about 2 exceptions – manges to do is actuallythink critically about why this subject should attract discussion andwhat are the root causes for such a discussion. (Not just thedriving the discussion itself)

Assumptionsthat are completely baseless are made about driving and then with asprinkle of racist soundbites it is turned into an onslaught –(again) on Thai drivers.

Untilthe majority of posters open their eyes (and minds) this web sitewill be littered with low-brow gossip and prejudiced circularpostings (they aren't actually arguments) ad infinitum.

Itis quite clear that even when confronted with some very basic ideas,analytical and critical thought has no place here.

[canuckamuck]

Look Derail it is simple, I wanted to know if people identified certain types of vehicles with dangerous driving habits, and guess what people do. You are the one who somehow made this a race issue, where was your critical thinking there?

Everyone else got the point of the poll, how come you are all frothy over this?

This is a poll for general interest, I guess to see if other people have similar observations. It is by no means an attempt at a scientific classification of dangerous vehicles. And the vehicles in question are driven by all races that live here.

The race discussions that followed were mostly instigated by yourself.

[chav]

Perhaps some public service road safety / consideration infomercials on Television slowly help. 'The Don't Dazzle, dip your head lights' campaign in the UK is one I remember. There could be a 'Don't be selfish campaign', I've saw something similar in Malaysia a couple of years ago.

I've made that point to other ex-pats here when the subject has been raised, I think that it could work, especially if it was endorsed by a well respected authority (you know who I mean)

Quite a few years ago it was common place to be told during the day time that you were driving around with your lights on - especially whist on a motorcycle. It was common pratice in europe but deemed as totaly ridiculous here. Then one day an ex-PM suggested that for safety reasons it may be a good idea; particularly when running up the motorway the wrong way. Overnight the example set in this case by Malaysia was adopted by many. To this day it is still happenening. Maybe gradualy if other 'saftey tips' were presented by public figures things may gradually improve.

[WarpSpeed]

ActuallyI think you're right......

basicallythis thread in common with many others illustrates the banality ofthought of many posters.

Thesubject – attempting to link cars to stereotypes of drivers ordriving is so simplistic as to be infantile and the rest of thecomments boil down to one thing

“Faranggood driver, Thai bad”

Whatno-one apart from about 2 exceptions – manges to do is actuallythink critically about why this subject should attract discussion andwhat are the root causes for such a discussion. (Not just thedriving the discussion itself)

Assumptionsthat are completely baseless are made about driving and then with asprinkle of racist soundbites it is turned into an onslaught –(again) on Thai drivers.

Untilthe majority of posters open their eyes (and minds) this web sitewill be littered with low-brow gossip and prejudiced circularpostings (they aren't actually arguments) ad infinitum.

Itis quite clear that even when confronted with some very basic ideas,analytical and critical thought has no place here.

Nice editorial sensational and dramatic as it is but what about answering the questions I posed to you about the engineering and design coming from the top and still being wholly inadequate even with numerous successful world wide examples to follow?

[Deeral]

ActuallyI think you're right......

basicallythis thread in common with many others illustrates the banality ofthought of many posters.

Thesubject – attempting to link cars to stereotypes of drivers ordriving is so simplistic as to be infantile and the rest of thecomments boil down to one thing

"Faranggood driver, Thai bad"

Whatno-one apart from about 2 exceptions – manges to do is actuallythink critically about why this subject should attract discussion andwhat are the root causes for such a discussion. (Not just thedriving the discussion itself)

Assumptionsthat are completely baseless are made about driving and then with asprinkle of racist soundbites it is turned into an onslaught –(again) on Thai drivers.

Untilthe majority of posters open their eyes (and minds) this web sitewill be littered with low-brow gossip and prejudiced circularpostings (they aren't actually arguments) ad infinitum.

Itis quite clear that even when confronted with some very basic ideas,analytical and critical thought has no place here.

Nice editorial sensational and dramatic as it is but what about answering the questions I posed to you about the engineering and design coming from the top and still being wholly inadequate even with numerous successful world wide examples to follow?

Sorry I didn't see your questions - could you post again or direct me?

[Deeral]

Look Derail it is simple, I wanted to know if people identified certain types of vehicles with dangerous driving habits, and guess what people do. You are the one who somehow made this a race issue, where was your critical thinking there?

Everyone else got the point of the poll, how come you are all frothy over this?

This is a poll for general interest, I guess to see if other people have similar observations. It is by no means an attempt at a scientific classification of dangerous vehicles. And the vehicles in question are driven by all races that live here.

The race discussions that followed were mostly instigated by yourself.

I didn't instigate the race issue, it was there and I observed that it was there. If you haven't got the critical ability to see it well - I guess judging by the way you talk about drivers and vehicles in a stereotypical fashion it just isn't part of your lexicon.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Deeral

[canuckamuck]

Look Derail it is simple, I wanted to know if people identified certain types of vehicles with dangerous driving habits, and guess what people do. You are the one who somehow made this a race issue, where was your critical thinking there?

Everyone else got the point of the poll, how come you are all frothy over this?

This is a poll for general interest, I guess to see if other people have similar observations. It is by no means an attempt at a scientific classification of dangerous vehicles. And the vehicles in question are driven by all races that live here.

The race discussions that followed were mostly instigated by yourself.

I didn't instigate the race issue, it was there and I observed that it was there. If you haven't got the critical ability to see it well - I guess judging by the way you talk about drivers and vehicles in a stereotypical fashion it just isn't part of your lexicon.

I see the word lexicon isn't part of your lexicon or else you would have known that your comment just now doesn't make any sense.

Edited September 3, 2010 by canuckamuck

[mca]

ActuallyI think you're right......

basicallythis thread in common with many others illustrates the banality ofthought of many posters.

Thesubject – attempting to link cars to stereotypes of drivers ordriving is so simplistic as to be infantile and the rest of thecomments boil down to one thing

“Faranggood driver, Thai bad”

Whatno-one apart from about 2 exceptions – manges to do is actuallythink critically about why this subject should attract discussion andwhat are the root causes for such a discussion. (Not just thedriving the discussion itself)

Assumptionsthat are completely baseless are made about driving and then with asprinkle of racist soundbites it is turned into an onslaught –(again) on Thai drivers.

Untilthe majority of posters open their eyes (and minds) this web sitewill be littered with low-brow gossip and prejudiced circularpostings (they aren't actually arguments) ad infinitum.

Itis quite clear that even when confronted with some very basic ideas,analytical and critical thought has no place here.

Are you having trouble with the space bar on your keyboard mate?

[WarpSpeed]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

Bingo!! With masses of well engineered older examples world wide to emulate and the system here being relatively new and maturing why is it that they are such junk?? It's the top educated engineers and administrators who design and approve them so what about that? What's the excuse not to follow successful examples and avoid making such massive, expensive blunders continually, not just once, but over and over in perpetuity?

If you screw up one merge lane or bus stop you don't continue to do the next 3 or 4 hundred the same way for the next 10 years of road construction..

Here ya go....

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

ActuallyI think you're right......

basicallythis thread in common with many others illustrates the banality ofthought of many posters.

Thesubject – attempting to link cars to stereotypes of drivers ordriving is so simplistic as to be infantile and the rest of thecomments boil down to one thing

“Faranggood driver, Thai bad”

Whatno-one apart from about 2 exceptions – manges to do is actuallythink critically about why this subject should attract discussion andwhat are the root causes for such a discussion. (Not just thedriving the discussion itself)

Assumptionsthat are completely baseless are made about driving and then with asprinkle of racist soundbites it is turned into an onslaught –(again) on Thai drivers.

Untilthe majority of posters open their eyes (and minds) this web sitewill be littered with low-brow gossip and prejudiced circularpostings (they aren't actually arguments) ad infinitum.

Itis quite clear that even when confronted with some very basic ideas,analytical and critical thought has no place here.

Are you having trouble with the space bar on your keyboard mate?

I was thinking that too but didn't want to say anything, it's kind of like when you see a person stuttering and you don't want to make issue..

[Deeral]

Look Derail it is simple, I wanted to know if people identified certain types of vehicles with dangerous driving habits, and guess what people do. You are the one who somehow made this a race issue, where was your critical thinking there?

Everyone else got the point of the poll, how come you are all frothy over this?

This is a poll for general interest, I guess to see if other people have similar observations. It is by no means an attempt at a scientific classification of dangerous vehicles. And the vehicles in question are driven by all races that live here.

The race discussions that followed were mostly instigated by yourself.

I didn't instigate the race issue, it was there and I observed that it was there. If you haven't got the critical ability to see it well - I guess judging by the way you talk about drivers and vehicles in a stereotypical fashion it just isn't part of your lexicon.

I see the word lexicon isn't part of your lexicon or else you would have known that your comment just now doesn't make any sense.

I think you'll find it is! Dear oh dear! - has it come to this? look it up, if you need to!

[WarpSpeed]

Look Derail it is simple, I wanted to know if people identified certain types of vehicles with dangerous driving habits, and guess what people do. You are the one who somehow made this a race issue, where was your critical thinking there?

Everyone else got the point of the poll, how come you are all frothy over this?

This is a poll for general interest, I guess to see if other people have similar observations. It is by no means an attempt at a scientific classification of dangerous vehicles. And the vehicles in question are driven by all races that live here.

The race discussions that followed were mostly instigated by yourself.

I didn't instigate the race issue, it was there and I observed that it was there. If you haven't got the critical ability to see it well - I guess judging by the way you talk about drivers and vehicles in a stereotypical fashion it just isn't part of your lexicon.

Trust me! T/A is critical enough .. Lexicon is an impressive word though maybe a bit overdone but still impressive ... Especially for a motoring forum..

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Deeral]

BTW - I

've already said why I don't consider the driving to be the crux of the matter - it's the traffic engineering and the legal environment.

Bingo!! With masses of well engineered older examples world wide to emulate and the system here being relatively new and maturing why is it that they are such junk?? It's the top educated engineers and administrators who design and approve them so what about that? What's the excuse not to follow successful examples and avoid making such massive, expensive blunders continually, not just once, but over and over in perpetuity?

If you screw up one merge lane or bus stop you don't continue to do the next 3 or 4 hundred the same way for the next 10 years of road construction..

Here ya go....

Think he's gone out for a beer and meditate.

Traffic engineering isn't road construction.

...and no - I'm having trouble with converting the format from my Mac writing app to this site.

[WarpSpeed]

Bingo!! With masses of well engineered older examples world wide to emulate and the system here being relatively new and maturing why is it that they are such junk?? It's the top educated engineers and administrators who design and approve them so what about that? What's the excuse not to follow successful examples and avoid making such massive, expensive blunders continually, not just once, but over and over in perpetuity?

If you screw up one merge lane or bus stop you don't continue to do the next 3 or 4 hundred the same way for the next 10 years of road construction..

Here ya go....

Think he's gone out for a beer and meditate.

Traffic engineering isn't road construction.

...and no - I'm having trouble with converting the format from my Mac writing app to this site.

Oh dear, nice attempted dodge, I guess I'll have to post more of my quotes for you to understand. But oh wise one, then instead of teasing us mere mortals what is your reference to traffic engineering in spite of the fact that I outlined it as being the entire system of such previously?

Also my post was intended to demonstrate that if the educated powers that be can not even engineer the road system properly with numerous long time successful examples to follow then how is one to think that the average Somchai Thai daily driver is to grasp the larger nuances of daily driving in every aspect from rules of the road to the more complex issues of personal safety and public responsibility to others on the road.. Is that to the point enough to suit you?

Edited September 3, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Thaddeus]

could you post again or direct me?

Certainly, first left at the lights, 2nd right, slow down to miss the etan and two motorcy's on the wrong side of the road with no lights on, lose your grip on reality and the road, overtake on a blind bend then hit the brakes as hard as you can and turn right again.....

This is not a difficult concept is it, so many people complained about the green Pepsi that it just had to be bad, so many people complain about the driving standards here that it has to be bad.... it's got nothing to do with race or racial stereotypes, and to be quite honest most of the westerners contributing to this thread haven't tried that tack, just you.

It's the same problem as all the significant problems in this country, nobody shows anyone how something should be done correctly unless it suits them, and no one ever asks anyone else how something should be done because social strictures say they can't.

[Thaddeus]

I'm having trouble with converting the format from my Mac writing app to this site.

Can't drive a Mac then either

[Lickey]

Nothing wrong with Thai driving/riding, just accept it, thats the way it is and thats it,

[canuckamuck]

What Lexicon means:

1. a dictionary, esp one of an ancient language such as Greek or Hebrew

2. a list of terms relating to a particular subject

3. the vocabulary of a language or of an individual

4. linguistics the set of all the morphemes of a language

(World English Dictionary)

In other words; a grouping of words in a list, or the vocabulary of an individual or group of people.

That would mean if something isn't in my lexicon, then there is a word being used that I don't know.

What Deeral said:

I didn't instigate the race issue, it was there and I observed that it was there. If you haven't got the critical ability to see it well - I guess judging by the way you talk about drivers and vehicles in a stereotypical fashion it just isn't part of your lexicon.

How does his comment make sense? He missed out the what that isn't part of my lexicon. Did he mean the way I talk about drivers isn't part of my lexicon, because that makes no sense. Is it critical ability that isn't part of my lexicon? Again, makes no sense.

Sorry I had to be pedantic, but it seemed others were agreeing that he used his high school thesaurus correctly. When in fact he just said nothing at all.

[Deeral]

What Lexicon means:

1. a dictionary, esp one of an ancient language such as Greek or Hebrew

2. a list of terms relating to a particular subject

3. the vocabulary of a language or of an individual

4. linguistics the set of all the morphemes of a language

(World English Dictionary)

In other words; a grouping of words in a list, or the vocabulary of an individual or group of people.

That would mean if something isn't in my lexicon, then there is a word being used that I don't know.

What Deeral said:

I didn't instigate the race issue, it was there and I observed that it was there. If you haven't got the critical ability to see it well - I guess judging by the way you talk about drivers and vehicles in a stereotypical fashion it just isn't part of your lexicon.

How does his comment make sense? He missed out the what that isn't part of my lexicon. Did he mean the way I talk about drivers isn't part of my lexicon, because that makes no sense. Is it critical ability that isn't part of my lexicon? Again, makes no sense.

Sorry I had to be pedantic, but it seemed others were agreeing that he used his high school thesaurus correctly. When in fact he just said nothing at all.

I love the idea that you've spent all this time looking up a word you don't know.Looking at my sentence, I'd say the grammar is awry but the meaning of lexicon is fine.

i'm sorry though that you have got so diverted from the argument - but if you don't understand it then why try to cover it up with an argument about language usage you don't understand either?If you can't workout what isn't part of your lexicon - and it's getting bigger by each of your posts - then I feel sorry for you.....no I lie, i don't I'm just mildly irritated.

Edited September 4, 2010 by Deeral

[yogi100]

I think Thai drivers are generally as a good as drivers anywhere else in the world. The confrontational drivers I have witnessed in Pattaya have always been Falangs!

[draggons]

"Thai drivers are generally as a good as drivers anywhere else in the world" <deleted>?

In most western countries you have to undergo driver training and then sit a test before being let loose on the roads. At least half the population that drive here don't even have a licence, have never had formal training but think they can drive safely at warp speed!!

Tourists on big bikes and expats driving like Thais really piss me off.