CMU Fails To Provide Visa Support Documents

[anselpixel]

I received my first email today from CMU, via my teacher. Here it is:

Sigh...Not on letterhead, not signed by anyone, 100% self-serving attempt to gather personal information and get students to admit they have knowledge that LICMU has notified them of end of classes so now visas can be cancelled (see above post #336). BANK ACCOUNT DETAIL!!!!!!!!!! Oh, come on!!!! Ignore this "letter" ..... we don't know who this is really from.

That is a very curious document.

Why send a copy to Dr. Kay?

I'd agree that no one should act on this.

At best, it's espionage in the tradition of Inspector Clouseau, and an inadvertent insult to the intelligence of its audience.

[Austeyr]

I received my first email today from CMU, via my teacher. Here it is:

Sigh...Not on letterhead, not signed by anyone, 100% self-serving attempt to gather personal information and get students to admit they have knowledge that LICMU has notified them of end of classes so now visas can be cancelled (see above post #336). BANK ACCOUNT DETAIL!!!!!!!!!! Oh, come on!!!! Ignore this "letter" ..... we don't know who this is really from.

That is a very curious document.

Why send a copy to Dr. Kay?

I'd agree that no one should act on this.

At best, it's espionage in the tradition of Inspector Clouseau, and an inadvertent insult to the intelligence of its audience.

As mentioned this email was sent to one of the Thai teachers who then forwarded it onto all the Thai students and Dr Kay to keep everyone in the loop as to what is going on.

[NoBSBoy]

I received my first email today from CMU, via my teacher. Here it is:

Sigh...Not on letterhead, not signed by anyone, 100% self-serving attempt to gather personal information and get students to admit they have knowledge that LICMU has notified them of end of classes so now visas can be cancelled (see above post #336). BANK ACCOUNT DETAIL!!!!!!!!!! Oh, come on!!!! Ignore this "letter" ..... we don't know who this is really from.

That is a very curious document.

Why send a copy to Dr. Kay?

I'd agree that no one should act on this.

At best, it's espionage in the tradition of Inspector Clouseau, and an inadvertent insult to the intelligence of its audience.

As mentioned this email was sent to one of the Thai teachers who then forwarded it onto all the Thai students and Dr Kay to keep everyone in the loop as to what is going on.

That's odd, I'm a student there and in direct contact with many other students and no one has received this from their teacher. Nonsense. It's a scam.

[Bubbalicious]

I received my first email today from CMU, via my teacher. Here it is:

Sigh...Not on letterhead, not signed by anyone, 100% self-serving attempt to gather personal information and get students to admit they have knowledge that LICMU has notified them of end of classes so now visas can be cancelled (see above post #336).      BANK ACCOUNT DETAIL!!!!!!!!!!   Oh, come on!!!!    Ignore this "letter"  .....  we don't know who this is really from.

That is a very curious document.

Why send a copy to Dr. Kay?

I'd agree that no one should act on this.  

At best,  it's espionage in the tradition of Inspector Clouseau, and an inadvertent insult to the intelligence of its audience.

As mentioned this email was sent to one of the Thai teachers who then forwarded it onto all the Thai students and Dr Kay to keep everyone in the loop as to what is going on.

Sounds very typical. And I'd note that they seem to be pushing 100% financial responsibility onto Dr. Matt, perhaps since he apparently has offered to reimburse everyone (which NoBSBoy might admit wasn't very legally prudent) - Matt doesn't seem to have lawyered up well at all (either when he set up this program or after the ... hit the fan.) But, perhaps, CMULI has decided that's the price he'll have to pay not to be charged in civil/criminal court, since they hold all the power cards.

People here do a lot of Bank transfers from account to account (not terribly odd in terms of local practice). It sounds like your teachers are the only ones who know who you are at CMULI (and perhaps are sympathetic since they also have suffered financial harm in loss of income/hourly wages). But, I'm guessing whatever names and info they have on you are now with Herr Director (especially if they plan to continue to work there).

@NoBSBoy, what you say is correct about legal procedure, but perhaps you should read more in legal news for what passes for legal procedure here. Ignorance won't fly with immigration if you attempt to change visa status WITHIN Thailand. For those who want to avoid criminal libel and read up on court procedure here, I'd recommend googling "Ticha Na Nakorn" to see what happens about making allegations against people in high places here.

For those looking for an apology or perhaps another avenue to ask for help, here you are

[RogerL]

That letter does look a bit odd, but at least it's something the Language students can work with. What about people who were enrolled in the Cultural Exchange Program?

[wehugheog]

Just a bit info for those that enrolled language courses or CEP using a VISA card (I am sure that other credit/debit card companies have the same):

Here's a brief on how to claim your money back when using a Visa Debit card: The newly implemented Visa Debit Chargeback scheme is just what the name implies; a consumer protection plan that guarantees a refund when you do not receive proper goods or services.

Just as Section 75 protects your credit cards, with a Visa Debit you have 120 days to file a chargeback claim with your card issuer if you are the victim of fraud or if your seller doesn't deliver.

If the MOD's will allow me (otherwise please delete the link) to post a link:

http://www.bitterwal...ack-scheme/2859

Edited October 1, 2010 by wehugheog

[wehugheog]

Wow,

A reply to myself...

After talking to VISA it seems that the 120 day rule mentioned above does not really apply to EU citizens. So.......... go get it.

[wynzlo]

Wow,

A reply to myself...

After talking to VISA it seems that the 120 day rule mentioned above does not really apply to EU citizens. So.......... go get it.

Well thanks for the suggestion. I used a regular VISA card and just assumed that since the charge was 60+ days ago that it was too late to dispute. However, after digging around in my online statements I was able to submit a dispute for the charge online. We'll see what happens...

[dundas]

I think in addition to writing to newspapers, etc, it would be worthwhile suggesting to the writers of case studies for higher degrees in Public Administration, International Relations, etc etc that there's a wonderful case study right here on the net just waiting for them.

Some of the aspects: Intercultural co-operation; public/private partnerships, integrity of public administration, conflict resolution, customer service, customer charters, branding.

I don't intend to shoot myself in the foot by saying which universities to approach. But they are out there, and I think the CMU Thai program would make a brilliant case study, especially if it keeps going in the direction it seems to have taken.

[RogerL]

Talked to our U.S. credit union about filing a dispute for the VISA card charge, even though the transaction with CMU was more than 120 days ago. They encouraged filing, saying that sometimes that restriction is waived, in cases where you can show you have been trying to work with the merchant for a period of time and in cases where you pay for something like a year's worth of service in advance and the merchant stops providing that service before the contract period is over. That would seem to be the case with CMU!

[masuk]

This whole CMU disaster became known to me for the first time last Sunday (26th September) when I received an e-mail from CMU advising that the course was closing on September 30th.

The forum seems to have been going well before that, and I have only just picked it up.

My situation is that I leave Australia for Chiang Mai this coming Tuesday, armed with an ED Visa, having paid out 18,000 THB for the course, and $250 for the Ed Visa. It would be nice to think I'll get my course fee back, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Thai Consul in Brisbane seems to think that I should have no problems entering Thailand as the visa is legitimate, but I don't want to find out otherwise at Immigration, BKK.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

[Mario2008]

Your visa remains valid and you will get a 90 day permission to stay.

Only an EXTENSION of stay would become invalid.

[masuk]

Your visa remains valid and you will get a 90 day permission to stay.

Only an EXTENSION of stay would become invalid.

Thanks.

I received an email 5 minutes ago, advising me that courses are still running and for me to contact a Professor Rien.

I used the email address supplied, but it has just been returned as incorrect.

quote: All classes are running as scheduled. Please contact:

Professor Rien

Director

Room 127

Language Institute

Chiang Mai University

[NoBSBoy]

Your visa remains valid and you will get a 90 day permission to stay.

Only an EXTENSION of stay would become invalid.

Thanks.

I received an email 5 minutes ago, advising me that courses are still running and for me to contact a Professor Rien.

I used the email address supplied, but it has just been returned as incorrect.

quote: All classes are running as scheduled. Please contact:

Professor Rien

Director

Room 127

Language Institute

Chiang Mai University

All these announcements and letters and emails are for the sole purpose of avoiding liability for refunds, which "legally" falls on CMU because: 1. they issued the receipt on their letterhead, 2. they have not disbursed the percentage to Dr. Matt on recent tuitions, they have 100% and, 3. they terminated our classes. IUS did not terminate the program, LICMU/CMU did. This last letter stating:

"2. Students wishing to terminate their studies at LICMU" no, wait, they terminated us and told us to get off the campus. This 180 is a hope that students will "officially" terminate themselves, then no liability for refunds will be on CMU. Hope nobody falls for it.

[heybruce]

This whole CMU disaster became known to me for the first time last Sunday (26th September) when I received an e-mail from CMU advising that the course was closing on September 30th.

The forum seems to have been going well before that, and I have only just picked it up.

My situation is that I leave Australia for Chiang Mai this coming Tuesday, armed with an ED Visa, having paid out 18,000 THB for the course, and $250 for the Ed Visa. It would be nice to think I'll get my course fee back, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Thai Consul in Brisbane seems to think that I should have no problems entering Thailand as the visa is legitimate, but I don't want to find out otherwise at Immigration, BKK.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

You have a valid Ed visa in you passport. To my knowledge Thailand doesn't have Passport/Visa database that will allow them to identify select visa's that have been invalidated, and I don't believe your visa has been invalidated. I've read replies to this post that say that CMU sent Chiang Mai Immigration a list of visas that should be considered invalid after 30 September, but now Language Institute at CMU is telling us our visas are valid until 31 October.

Your class situation is very much in doubt, but you should have no trouble entering Thailand on your Ed visa.

[heybruce]

Your visa remains valid and you will get a 90 day permission to stay.

Only an EXTENSION of stay would become invalid.

Thanks.

I received an email 5 minutes ago, advising me that courses are still running and for me to contact a Professor Rien.

I used the email address supplied, but it has just been returned as incorrect.

quote: All classes are running as scheduled. Please contact:

Professor Rien

Director

Room 127

Language Institute

Chiang Mai University

I'm a student at ILCMU and have not received that letter. Can you post a copy of the letter here?

[bapak]

This whole CMU disaster became known to me for the first time last Sunday (26th September) when I received an e-mail from CMU advising that the course was closing on September 30th.

The forum seems to have been going well before that, and I have only just picked it up.

My situation is that I leave Australia for Chiang Mai this coming Tuesday, armed with an ED Visa, having paid out 18,000 THB for the course, and $250 for the Ed Visa. It would be nice to think I'll get my course fee back, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Thai Consul in Brisbane seems to think that I should have no problems entering Thailand as the visa is legitimate, but I don't want to find out otherwise at Immigration, BKK.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

The Conul is correct... You will be admitted for 90 days... So you have 90 days to decide your future.

[heybruce]

This whole CMU disaster became known to me for the first time last Sunday (26th September) when I received an e-mail from CMU advising that the course was closing on September 30th.

The forum seems to have been going well before that, and I have only just picked it up.

My situation is that I leave Australia for Chiang Mai this coming Tuesday, armed with an ED Visa, having paid out 18,000 THB for the course, and $250 for the Ed Visa. It would be nice to think I'll get my course fee back, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Thai Consul in Brisbane seems to think that I should have no problems entering Thailand as the visa is legitimate, but I don't want to find out otherwise at Immigration, BKK.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

The Conul is correct... You will be admitted for 90 days... So you have 90 days to decide your future.

Once here you can contact ILCMU and see if you still have a class to attend. If they don't give you a satisfactory answer you can contact one of the several other Language schools in Chiang Mai that sponsor Ed visas to find another program. If you choose another school, in order to be strictly legal you may have to do a little paperwork to notify Immigration that you've switched schools. You should talk to your new school about that, it may not be necessary, if it is it should be easy. Getting your deposit back from ILCMU/IUS becomes the problem then, and none of us are clear where we stand on that.

[Thaigift]

Does anyone know where Dr. Matt Kay is at?

[thaiguy55]

bbv4life

[Loaded]

Does anyone know where Dr. Matt Kay is at?

According to his website, he's still based at the Language Institute.

UniTEFL

239 Huay Kaew Road

Muang District

Chiang Mai

Thailand, 50200

Tel 084 804 4188

Fax 053 217 143

Email contact 'at' teflcmu.com

http://www.teflcmu.com/

This website was updated with this information just a couple of days ago.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Loaded

[masuk]

3rd October

Dear Adrian,

I am no longer employed by LICMU.

All classes are running as scheduled. Please contact:

Professor Rien

Director

Room 127

Language Institute

Chiang Mai University

Mob: 081 950 9733

Signed. Mathew Kay

(I was given an email address, but it does not work. Adrian)

[Mario2008]

Once here you can contact ILCMU and see if you still have a class to attend. If they don't give you a satisfactory answer you can contact one of the several other Language schools in Chiang Mai that sponsor Ed visas to find another program. If you choose another school, in order to be strictly legal you may have to do a little paperwork to notify Immigration that you've switched schools. You should talk to your new school about that, it may not be necessary, if it is it should be easy. Getting your deposit back from ILCMU/IUS becomes the problem then, and none of us are clear where we stand on that.

As long as you are not on an extension of stay you can change schools or not study at all. The paperwork is only necessary to get an EXTENSION of stay. And while on an extension of stay you would need to report a change of school with all the paperwork.

[masuk]

This whole CMU disaster became known to me for the first time last Sunday (26th September) when I received an e-mail from CMU advising that the course was closing on September 30th.

The forum seems to have been going well before that, and I have only just picked it up.

My situation is that I leave Australia for Chiang Mai this coming Tuesday, armed with an ED Visa, having paid out 18,000 THB for the course, and $250 for the Ed Visa. It would be nice to think I'll get my course fee back, but I'm not holding my breath.

The Thai Consul in Brisbane seems to think that I should have no problems entering Thailand as the visa is legitimate, but I don't want to find out otherwise at Immigration, BKK.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

The Conul is correct... You will be admitted for 90 days... So you have 90 days to decide your future.

Once here you can contact ILCMU and see if you still have a class to attend. If they don't give you a satisfactory answer you can contact one of the several other Language schools in Chiang Mai that sponsor Ed visas to find another program. If you choose another school, in order to be strictly legal you may have to do a little paperwork to notify Immigration that you've switched schools. You should talk to your new school about that, it may not be necessary, if it is it should be easy. Getting your deposit back from ILCMU/IUS becomes the problem then, and none of us are clear where we stand on that.

thank you for that information. I'll be there as soon as the jet lag is over!

Here's the emails I received last Sunday, 8 days ago. first I'd heard of any problems.

I was advised in a following email that all Immigration queries are to be directed to Immigration Dept.

September 26th

Dear all Cultural Exchange Program Participants,

I'm very sorry to inform you that the Cultural Exchange Program at the Language Institute, Chiang Mai University has been closed down.

Without much forewarning nor consultation with the IUS (International University Services) office, it was decided by the executive management of the Language Institute, CMU (LICMU) to close all IUS programs. IUS was contracted by LICMU to run several programs including CEP.

I apologize for not informing you of the situation sooner; however, we ourselves were not fully informed of the situation and wanted to wait until we could offer you firm information about any changes. IUS has done everything in its power to safe the programs or at least get more time to close or transfer the programs in a proper way to ensure that none of you would become the victim of this but unfortunately this hasn't worked out.

I was employed by IUS to run the CEP and now that the program has closed down I am no longer an employee.

I'm incredibly sorry having to bring this news to you and there's nothing left for me other than to offer you my sincere apologies.

For any inquiries I will need to refer you to IUS.

For any questions and/ or refunds please contact Dr. Matthew Kay on the following email address: [email protected]

I thank you for all your great input in the Cultural Exchange Program and wish you all the best.

Yours Sincerely,

Carmen Rademaker

From: Matthew Kay <[email protected]>

Date: Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Subject: email for CEP students

To: Carmen Rademaker <[email protected]>

Dear 1 Year Thai Language students & Cultural Exchange Program participants,

Firstly, let me begin by saying how sorry I am for the interruption to your studies and placements, your visa uncertainties, and for any financial losses you may have incurred.

Secondly, let me explain to you what has happened briefly and how this situation arose:

For a number of years, IUS/International University Services has administered in partnership with LICMU a number of programs for foreigners. Some of these programs have been running for as long as 5 years or more. The nature of the partnership between IUS and LICMU was a 40% (IUS) - 60% (LICMU) split of profits after costs. Recently, it was decided by the incoming new director of LICMU that they did not wish continue any more programs for foreigners at LICMU. Unfortunately, this decision and the procedures by which this transition could be smoothly conducted was never discussed with IUS/International University Services by anyone from either LICMU nor CMU. Instead, what happened was that LICMU ceased to sign any visas necessary for foreign students to study and gave notice that all LICMU classrooms for foreign programs would no longer be available after 30 September 2010.

IUS tried on a number of occasions very hard to convince LICMU that this was not a workable solution, and one that would cause much hardship to our students. However, once IUS realized that there would be no change to these decisions, IUS began to try to solve the situation in some other way, and when that could not be done, IUS began to refund money, pay for overstays, and pay bus fares and air tickets for those students most immediately affected. We then began to try and find other places which may sponsor our students visas. We were able to secure an agreement with another university in Chiang Mai. However, suddenly, and so far, inexplicably, that agreement was discontinued by the alternative university.

So this is how it stands at the moment:

* LICMU will still not sign visas.

* LICMU has said there are to be absolutely no classes for foreigners at LICMU after 30 September 2010.

* IUS has exhausted all its funds in the refunding of courses fees and other expenses due to students because of lack of either a visa or classes.

* LICMU is refusing to refund any money to students.

For the last few weeks, as the director of IUS, I have felt that I was justified in telling affected students that the rest of the refunds must be now paid by LICMU (from LICMU's 60%) and that IUS had met its responsibilities by making payments well exceeding the 40% of income that it had received.

I was wrong.

In this type of situation, where one partner (LICMU) refuses to meet their obligations to students, it was wrong of me to think that that excuses IUS (or myself) from its continuing responsibilities to our students. It was wrong of me to allow affected students to get handed around like a "hot potato" from IUS to LICMU and back again, with no one taking responsibility for the situation that students - by absolutely no fault of their own - had found themselves in. I am very sorry and I will do everything in my power to rectify my mistake.

Therefore, IUS (and myself) from this point forward takes full (and personal) responsibility for the further refunding of any fair claim from students either in the Cultural Exchange Program or the 1 Year Thai Language Program.

IUS (and myself) will need some time to refund all monies owed to all students (there are currently close to 300 affected students). However, I believe that IUS can clear ALL monies owing within 180 days.

Please email at: [email protected]. In your email, if you could tell me what you believe you are owed and why, I will compile a list of all monies owing to our students. Once I have a total amount, I will then be able to work out when you may receive your refund. I will then email you with the latest date that you can expect to receive your refund.

IUS begin to replenish its funds during October. Therefore, students can expect the first of their payments to be made by IUS during October.

Again, I am very very sorry for the inconvenience and hardship caused to all our students; and I give you my promise that I will do everything I possibly can to resolve the situation honorably and responsibly and in the shortest time possible.

Your Sincerely,

Matthew Kay

Director

IUS/International University Services

[electracm]

3rd October

Dear Adrian,

I am no longer employed by LICMU.

All classes are running as scheduled. Please contact:

Professor Rien

Director

Room 127

Language Institute

Chiang Mai University

Mob: 081 950 9733

Masuk, if that email is form Matt I'll eat my motorbike helmet! Someone at the LI is playing silly beggars.....

Signed. Mathew Kay

(I was given an email address, but it does not work. Adrian)

OOOPs, got that wornk --I'll try again! Masuk, if that email is from matt, I'll eat my motorbike helmet -- someone at LI is playing silly beggars...

[masuk]

3rd October

Dear Adrian,

I am no longer employed by LICMU.

All classes are running as scheduled. Please contact:

Professor Rien

Director

Room 127

Language Institute

Chiang Mai University

Mob: 081 950 9733

Masuk, if that email is form Matt I'll eat my motorbike helmet! Someone at the LI is playing silly beggars.....

Signed. Mathew Kay

(I was given an email address, but it does not work. Adrian)

OOOPs, got that wornk --I'll try again! Masuk, if that email is from matt, I'll eat my motorbike helmet -- someone at LI is playing silly beggars...

[masuk]

Put a hold on the knife, fork and motorbike helmet!!

I just looked at the address that "Matt" emailed me from last night, and it's possible that his mails are being replied to by others.

Mysteriouser and mysteriouser....

ad

[masuk]

I have spoken with both Matt and Prof. Rien.

All those affected by this should know that:

1. Matt is leaving Thailand this week in an attempt to raise funds in Australia and refund students (and perhaps also employees) he owes money to.

2. Prof. Rien has told me in the presence of witnesses that CMU accuses Matt of illegal visa selling activities as the head of IUS and that they intend to try to bar him from entering Thailand.

3. Matt has told me, via email, that he intends to sue CMU for crimonal libel against him.

A very very messy situation right now. And the money I paid to IUS is nowhere to be seen

Do you have Prof Rien's email address?

I think I should email him and try and see him in the next couple of days.

This is the reply I got from the email address I was given by Matt:

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

Edited October 4, 2010 by Tywais
e-mail removed as per forum rules

[kawtot]

Put a hold on the knife, fork and motorbike helmet!!

I just looked at the address that "Matt" emailed me from last night, and it's possible that his mails are being replied to by others.

Mysteriouser and mysteriouser....

ad

The domain teflcmu.com is currently registered to Chiang Mai University Language Institute.

It is probably illegal for someone to impersonate a former employee by sending anything from that former employee's mail account.

However, if you send an email to someone who used to work there (for example: matt(at)teflcmu.com) your email will probably be intercepted by someone else who does work there.

[kawtot]

I received my first email today from CMU, via my teacher. Here it is:

I would strongly caution students against completing this form and offering it up to LICMU.

imho its a scam - apart from all the anomalies already raised by other posters, neither of two teachers nor several of their students I've spoken to in the past 3 days, have sent or recieved it.

Edited October 4, 2010 by kawtot