Defamation

[FarangCravings]

Defamation is Illegal here in Thailand

However is not Defamation only a crime if it is UNTRUE ?

From my understanding of American and British Law if the accusations are TRUE then it is not nor classed as defamation but of course that would not stop a grieved business from filing a suit and then going to court and have the accusers prove it.

So the question is if you are ripped off or treated bad by a business and want to warn others so they do not fall into the same trap where is the line of what you can and cannot say drawn

If you speak the truth surely defamation is not the case.

When a Business constantly rips its customers off and has a long history of it ,surely its fair to be able to warn others to avoid the business especially in this day and age of the internet.

What do you think

[Tywais]

Defamation and Libel laws are not the same here as in many other countries. In Thailand it is a criminal case whereas many other countries it is a civil case. Libel can still be prosecuted even if true if it results in financial losses for a business or individual. Info below in the forum rules:

6) Not to post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

[eek]

Here is an amalgamation of reasons why Thaivisa is careful regarding libel/defamation (the amalgamation of reasons are from various moderators/admins) :

First off, Defamation is a criminal act in Thailand and defamation does not have to be false, it has to be damaging.

To be safe, the forum would have to check that the OP's story is true as told, or they might be exposed to a lawsuit for denigration or defamation. Similarly to French law, Thai Law makes the editor (i.e. the website owner or its chief editor) responsible for what is published on a forum, and this Law has precedence on Freedom of Speech. In USA, UK, Germany and Switzerland (and most anglo-saxon countries) Freedom of Speech is valued higher, and the responsibility lays on the poster.

Under Thai law the truth in itself is no defense against libel. It is more a question of if someone loses "face" by another persons remarks. To be not libelous, a remark must not only be truthful, but also there must be a public interest in making the remarks, which outweighs the interests of the person or business the remarks where made about. So publicly complaining about lousy service or a cockroach in the bread might be libel if it is an isolated incident, but if it is something that happens more than ones there might be a public interest that justify making it public.

Under libel laws not only the person making the remark can be held accountable, also the person further making it public, like a newspaper or a forum, can be held responsible.

..and yes that does mean my other topic initially naming the supermarket could be classed as libel. Strangely enough moderators are not infallible, nor are we legal experts, we just try to do our best.

I hope this answers your query as to why Thaivisa is careful regarding libel/defamation laws. We can only speak for ourselves.

[Citizen313619]

This is just the beginning of the era of "tread lightly falang"

Edited September 24, 2010 by Citizen313619

[FarangCravings]

Here is an amalgamation of reasons why Thaivisa is careful regarding libel/defamation (the amalgamation of reasons are from various moderators/admins) :

First off, Defamation is a criminal act in Thailand and defamation does not have to be false, it has to be damaging.

To be safe, the forum would have to check that the OP's story is true as told, or they might be exposed to a lawsuit for denigration or defamation. Similarly to French law, Thai Law makes the editor (i.e. the website owner or its chief editor) responsible for what is published on a forum, and this Law has precedence on Freedom of Speech. In USA, UK, Germany and Switzerland (and most anglo-saxon countries) Freedom of Speech is valued higher, and the responsibility lays on the poster.

Under Thai law the truth in itself is no defense against libel. It is more a question of if someone loses "face" by another persons remarks. To be not libelous, a remark must not only be truthful, but also there must be a public interest in making the remarks, which outweighs the interests of the person or business the remarks where made about. So publicly complaining about lousy service or a cockroach in the bread might be libel if it is an isolated incident, but if it is something that happens more than ones there might be a public interest that justify making it public.

Under libel laws not only the person making the remark can be held accountable, also the person further making it public, like a newspaper or a forum, can be held responsible.

..and yes that does mean my other topic initially naming the supermarket could be classed as libel. Strangely enough moderators are not infallible, nor are we legal experts, we just try to do our best.

I hope this answers your query as to why Thaivisa is careful regarding libel/defamation laws. We can only speak for ourselves.

Unfortunateley that allows the offending business to continue there actions without recourse nor allowing people to be informed to avoid the business

i did not want this t become a topic discussing thai visa policy as that will cause it to get shut down I wanted to find out how to protect and give a heads up to people about business's that have a history and are obviously out to rip farangs off

I wanted to find a way of warning people without breaking the defamation law.

to continue to cover for these business's is wrong

Edited September 24, 2010 by FarangCravings

[Samuian]

How would this law apply to defamations posted and publicised, kept online without moderation, in Forums and message boards based in a european country and there are heavy defamations, slander, libel about citizens, about Thailand in general, about politicians, about xxxxx an institution which can't be named and foreigners living in Thailand - made public and allowed to remain online?

[Tywais]

As this is not a Chiang Mai specific issue, though I understand what initiated it, will move it elsewhere.

[DC1]

Criminal Code, Section 326: Whoever imputes anything to the other person before a third person in a manner likely to impair the reputation of such other person or to expose such other person to be hated or scorned is said to commit defamation, and shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or fined not exceeding twenty thousand Baht, or both.

Criminal Code, Section 330: In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished. But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be beneficial to the public.

[random]

Here is an amalgamation of reasons why Thaivisa is careful regarding libel/defamation (the amalgamation of reasons are from various moderators/admins) :

First off, Defamation is a criminal act in Thailand and defamation does not have to be false, it has to be damaging.

To be safe, the forum would have to check that the OP's story is true as told, or they might be exposed to a lawsuit for denigration or defamation. Similarly to French law, Thai Law makes the editor (i.e. the website owner or its chief editor) responsible for what is published on a forum, and this Law has precedence on Freedom of Speech. In USA, UK, Germany and Switzerland (and most anglo-saxon countries) Freedom of Speech is valued higher, and the responsibility lays on the poster.

Under Thai law the truth in itself is no defense against libel. It is more a question of if someone loses "face" by another persons remarks. To be not libelous, a remark must not only be truthful, but also there must be a public interest in making the remarks, which outweighs the interests of the person or business the remarks where made about. So publicly complaining about lousy service or a cockroach in the bread might be libel if it is an isolated incident, but if it is something that happens more than ones there might be a public interest that justify making it public.

Under libel laws not only the person making the remark can be held accountable, also the person further making it public, like a newspaper or a forum, can be held responsible.

..and yes that does mean my other topic initially naming the supermarket could be classed as libel. Strangely enough moderators are not infallible, nor are we legal experts, we just try to do our best.

I hope this answers your query as to why Thaivisa is careful regarding libel/defamation laws. We can only speak for ourselves.

Unfortunateley that allows the offending business to continue there actions without recourse nor allowing people to be informed to avoid the business

i did not want this t become a topic discussing thai visa policy as that will cause it to get shut down I wanted to find out how to protect and give a heads up to people about business's that have a history and are obviously out to rip farangs off

I wanted to find a way of warning people without breaking the defamation law.

to continue to cover for these business's is wrong

Maybe you could just start a thread where we can name a business and either give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down, without saying why, people will get the gist although could lead to a competitor just giving a thumbs down. maybe we can have the reputation vote on them haha, just to annoy jingthing.

On another note regarding defamation, the defamation has to be worse than something else that has been proven against them. as an example if I say Peter Sutcliffe was a homosexual and it turns out he isnt, he still can't sue me for defamation as homosexuality is not considered to be worse than murder, so by calling him a homosexual I have not damaged his reputation as he has already been proven to be worse than my allegation, so I can not have tarnished his reputation.

[november222]

I asked before and got no answer, so i'll try again. thai politicians avoid defamation by saying , someone with initial p, and everyone knows who he means, can we say a car rental company beginning with p or supermarket beginning with r? mau tours have plenty of mentions already on tvisa, is that not now allowed? will those post be deleted like o'malleys/red lion topic was? what is allowed now in giving a bad review of a business? the cars are a wreck, the steak was tough? not allowed if you name the place?

[random]

I asked before and got no answer, so i'll try again. thai politicians avoid defamation by saying , someone with initial p, and everyone knows who he means, can we say a car rental company beginning with p or supermarket beginning with r? mau tours have plenty of mentions already on tvisa, is that not now allowed? will those post be deleted like o'malleys/red lion topic was? what is allowed now in giving a bad review of a business? the cars are a wreck, the steak was tough? not allowed if you name the place?

Maybe the forum only allows defamation against direct competition to their advertisers

[jazzbo]

So the question is if you are ripped off or treated bad by a business and want to warn others so they do not fall into the same trap where is

the line of what you can and cannot say drawn

As the laws in Thailand are heavily in favor of the offending party as above, I would set-up a blog such as FC.blogspot.com and list it in your ThaiVisa Profile section ... then when you want to ''out' the offending party make an oblique reference in the appropriate ThaiVisa Forum with a check-out my recent blog entry ...

https://www.blogger.com/start

[sbk]

Moving to forum support and closing pending a policy decision on this issue which will be posted in this thread once its clarified.

And no random, have a look at the list of advertisers before your paranoia overtakes you.