Pigs 101 (A Start)

[pigeonjake]

as it been laying were they pee, is it yellow all over?

as anyone heard anything from IA, ive sent him a pm but heard nothing back from him,, i hope hes ok, any news anyone,

jake

[revar]

Not layong in pee. Yellow all over. Spoke with IA about 10 days ago.

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[revar]

After the 3% price rise pf betagro feed on 1august. 303 and 304 rise another 5 bath and 301L has risen another 10bath. Sources tell me that we can expect a7% rise.

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[joeuk1]

All feed pig companys went up together as usual , Betagro went up more than most , live pig prices expected to raise to 62 baht this month .

Fish feed chicken feed all up ................

Best regards

[revar]

What surprised me is that they went up twice in one month. Maybe they didn't want to raise their prices with 25 bath in one go.

Most small farmers around here are now switching to ducks or quiting alltogether since they cannot make a profit anymore. Liveprices around here are still aroumd 50bath.

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[COXYATCITY]

All feed pig companys went up together as usual , Betagro went up more than most , live pig prices expected to raise to 62 baht this month .

Fish feed chicken feed all up ................

Best regards

Where did you get the info of live prices to raise to 62 baht,i thought it would drop normally at this time of year.

regards Ian

[joeuk1]

Hi Ian

I speak with a Thai guy that works for one of the big feed companys and his clued up with everything in the pig game .

Best regards

[pigeonjake]

i hope it does, we,ll have 20 ready in a week,

[revar]

Prices around here are dropping. Have to sell today for 50 bath. Most buyers are now buyong at 48-49. Only sarakorn-pigs(the agriculture corporation)+pigs are getting 54 bath. Both my Betagro and Selectfeed contacts (salesmen and vets who travel around the country) are reporting rapidly dropping prices. I hope they are wrong but...

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[revar]

Sold 16 pigs today. Average weight after 129 days was 106 kg. They ate their 7 bags a pig.

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[flowerusa]

Your loved ones relish the wonderful terms they have with you best, when your heartfelt communication in the form of gifts reaches them. Shower them with the splashes of emotionally crafted gift ideas to convey your priceless concerns for them.

[COXYATCITY]

Prices around here are dropping. Have to sell today for 50 bath. Most buyers are now buyong at 48-49. Only sarakorn-pigs(the agriculture corporation)+pigs are getting 54 bath. Both my Betagro and Selectfeed contacts (salesmen and vets who travel around the country) are reporting rapidly dropping prices. I hope they are wrong but...

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can only get 50 baht in Surin today.53 baht a few days ago :-(

[revar]

quote name='COXYATCITY'

can only get 50 baht in Surin today.53 baht a few days ago

Same here,3 days ago most were buyong between 50 and 53. Today between 47-50. Reason quoted is pansa. Not much demand at the moment. I often supply local butchers but they pay me only when the meat is sold. They aren't selling much at the moments and their holding pens are full. Since I needed money to buy feed for my pigs and shop I sold to a buyer for the processing industry. They are normally buying at 47-48 at the moment in this region (around pakchong).

If you eat pork from the supermarkt you might be eating my pigs (not the cp brand of course).

[IsaanAussie]

Time to cut to the chase guys! There are two facts that must be seriously looked at (unless money is not an issue). Firstly there is a seasonally induced glut of market ready pigs. If you have pigs at market weight, getting any sale may well be harder than getting a price that recovers cost to date. Second, is the feed grains situation globally. This not going away and will get worse with prices of feed continuing to increase over the next 6 months.

I have neighbours that are growing pigs on contract and the owners are not collecting the pigs when ready, nor are they supplying feed and vet services. These people are now trying to feed these still growing pigs and trying to sell them to recoup something from the deal.

Act fast guys....

[pigeonjake]

my wife spoke to the buyer today, he said they had a lot of pigs but would get to her when they could,

ive told the wife its time we did them ourselfs,

[Khonwan]

I’m sorry that this is not a good-news story but I think IA’s warning to act fast is worth considering. This happened to me early 2007 when I had a load of pigs. Couldn’t get them sold at all and couldn’t butcher & sell them all myself (had over 100 at the time). At that time, it cost me Bt34/kg to get my pigs to around 100kg market weight (I had expected to sell @Bt50/kg). Promised purchases fell through. The pigs were of various ages; some got to 138kg whilst others were still only around 70kg (averaged just over 100kg per pig). I ended up having to sell at Bt22kg. It was either that or forking out another fortune on pig-feed (which was also rising dramatically in price) with no indication of better prices to come soon. I took a hit of Bt200,000 that did not include my Bt100,000 cattle-feedlot to pig-feedlot conversion costs. I got out of pigs and stayed out since nothing was being put in place to prevent the situation recurring – zero market intelligence from the government’s agriculture department despite their physical presence in every district office. Breeders survived that market crash but pig growers like me were all very badly hit.

Rgds

Khonwan

[IsaanAussie]

The issue is feed costs are escalating and if prices do not improve then destocking quickly is the only viable result. Currently I do not know of anyone who is seeing a profit under the current cost model. As a grower currently, if you adopt a wait and see or wait to sell approach, any returns will be consumed by the remaining pigs before the last is sold. No pigs and more money gone.

As a breeder of pigs, the upkeep cost of the herd is high and holding sows without being bred doesnt make sense. You either take the gamble that either piglets or market pigs resulting from your breeding program will be ready when the market peeks again, or you cull the sows.

I have done that. I am changing my herd of sows for new gilts that will start to produce around new year. I have a stock of some 15 young growers that will go to the tables in Bangkok between 40 and 80 kgs or will be ready as market pigs for New Year. I do not have one finishing pig in the sty currently, and have not had since late July.

RedBullHorn shared a lot of valuable information on the seasionality of the industry and I learnt a lot from his seasonally based batch growouts. The pig industry here is all about good planning. Unlike out of season crops, out of season pigs will never yield a profit.

Khonwan's story should be taken very seriously if you have no alternatives planned. Any return is better than continued losses. As much as it hurts the ego to sell so low, I can see no logical alternative. The quicker the better.

[RedBullHorn]

"All you wanna do is ride around Sally ! Ride Sally ride~~~ "

Hit and Run !

[IsaanAussie]

"All you wanna do is ride around Sally ! Ride Sally ride~~~ "

Hit and Run !

Great piece of music, shows real "commitment". Not a bad philosophy either.

[humblefalang]

just found the thread]

sorry to jump in

im betwenn khon kaen and kalasin want to sell pigs ready to kill but not a silgle buyer not even the local street butcher.

Market Overloaded?

price around here 48b/kg

not really a loss but not even a think about profit,

not too familiar with this "Seasonal growing"

IssanAussie any advice? you seem to know a fair amount

When would you say is the peak season generally speaking?

[IsaanAussie]

just found the thread]

sorry to jump in

im betwenn khon kaen and kalasin want to sell pigs ready to kill but not a silgle buyer not even the local street butcher.

Market Overloaded?

price around here 48b/kg

not really a loss but not even a think about profit,

not too familiar with this "Seasonal growing"

IssanAussie any advice? you seem to know a fair amount

When would you say is the peak season generally speaking?

The seasonality has been discussed at length. In summary follow the available funds in the village. Rice crop is harvested, people have money. New Year family returns to the village, money flows. Merit making, weddings, even funerals in the cold period over the annual holidays around New Year. So December through New Year cash is around, and parties use up the pigs. A few months later, Thai males enter the monkhood for a time, houses are finished and parties are held to gather funds. They all use pigs. The other side of the coin is as the country enters lent. The devout refrain from eating pork, most are trying to meet the fertiliser bills for the rice and eat under hunter gatherer guidelines not buying pork. Regionally, the highest prices are in the wealthiest areas, Chiang Mai is always a baht of two in front. None of that is rocket science.

So where from here if you have the timing wrong and a sty full of 100kg pigs? This is the real question and anyone entering the pig farming game needs to have that answer before they start. Most of us, yes, me included, didnt and suffered as a result. I produce bacon and select meat cuts etc.. I sell pigs to Bangkok chefs. All I can say is right now the pigs are not going to sell themselves, get busy...

[RedBullHorn]

just to add that the north are paying better due to the high cost of transportation thus resulting in higher price tag on the feed in total...

All Live stocks that are marketed bear similar seasonal price as parallel as to agriculture produce like lime, vegetables and chillies etc etc... But agriculture produces' supply and demand are true seasonal like certain period of the year you will be able to buy them plentifully and then shortage during off season.

Live stocks like pigs and fishes can be raise all year round, it is the activities and functions in a calender year that dictate the market price... Volatile period like New Year, Chinese New Year, nation wide school holidays in March, paddies transplanting season in June, period of the 3 months Buddhist Lent, Vegetarian festival, nation wide school holidays (again~) in October, paddies harvesting season, cold season and then back to New year.... the whole cycle begins again.

Price are adjusted and announce very auspicious day according to the Buddhism calender (Thai call it Wan Sinn) which happen every 7 - 10 days cycle year round, this are the days that slaughtering houses stop their butchering activies and get paid... villagers will not butcher any live stock too may it be chicken or fish, more or less it is a moral day, a no butchering/killing day (but slaugthering house usually will butcher double the qouta the day before.)

Generally speaking there are 2 peak in a year, one is the period leading to Chinese New Year, the other is the paddies transplanting period in June leading to the full moon - before the start of the Buddhist Lent.

To be successful, you will need to learn, understand the cultural effects on demand and supply , take note of the price during those period and compare them historically and monitor those conglomerates movement, company like CPF etc etc... and follow this pinned topic to be kept updated on everything pigs...

Happy farming~

[revar]

Despite of all warnings, because I am a stuborn guy who is determined to succeed, I got 60 new piglets in two bulk deals ranging from 5 to 25 kg. Its nice if you have three different suppliets trying to become your house-supplier, I got an extremely good deal and would normally pay twice what I paid now.

btw Even with current prices I am still making a profit. During this budist lent period I am often selling to a processing industry buyer. They always need pigs, but they normally pay a few bath less then local butchers.

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[IsaanAussie]

The last two posts should be read together, both will give newbies a good idea of realities here. You do not have to spend a lot on stock to make a profit but you must spend time with the calculator and calendar to see if there is a profit to be made on any batch of pigs. Be aware of feed bill trends and assume that 20 baht increases will happen once or twice a year.

[RedBullHorn]

Despite of all warnings, because I am a stuborn guy who is determined to succeed, I got 60 new piglets in two bulk deals ranging from 5 to 25 kg. Its nice if you have three different suppliets trying to become your house-supplier, I got an extremely good deal and would normally pay twice what I paid now.

btw Even with current prices I am still making a profit. During this budist lent period I am often selling to a processing industry buyer. They always need pigs, but they normally pay a few bath less then local butchers.

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What was lost in the few Baht less is balance out from the near 50% saving of piglets, and they always need pigs ! Long term business established.

[revar]

Regarding markets: There are many different markets you can try to serve: local sharks, local butchers, butcher and sell meat yourself, restaurants, local parties and funerals, processing industry or their buyers. All have different demands regarding feed type, pig size, meat type (especially amound of fat). I believe in flexibility. If one market is not buying maybe another is. Three things are key: quality, contacts, and business ethics/underatamding how to do business in thailand. If you are new to the business and do not have a good reputation yet you need a couple of years to establish your reputation as a quality supplier. You need tp deliver better quality then other local farmers do. You also need this time to develop the contacts in the industry.

You want to have a choice between suppliers, customers and markets. If you depend on only one of each you have a high risk of failing.

With the last part 'Business ethics and doing business in thailand' I mean the following: Cheating authority is the national sport. If you are not caught it enhances your repitation. Your thai suppliers, customers etc. will all try to 'cheat' in some way. they will tell you that your pigs weigh less then they do or that the meat is not good. You have to anticipate this and play the game. sometimes you stand firm and sometimes you concede. Always you serve a 40 or a beer. Thais love this game and if you can play it lots of them want to do business with you. And if you can choose between suppliers and customers you will always win in the end. End if you sometimes let them 'win' (accepting a lesser profit for the sake of the future relationship) they can brag about getting one over the farang. But thet and others will beback...

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[IsaanAussie]

Revar,

I could seriously benefit from talking to you more about this. But currently I have to disagree almost violently. I am not Thai and I do not do business based on face and bullsh1t. I produce a product and I place a value on it, take it or not, up to you. Give it to you? Take a bus pal! Wait for the funeral to finish to get paid, OK, that is the way things are done here, but talk to me about this "must win" BS in a country that has no idea of ROI and you lose me.

[revar]

IA, i don't think we realy disagree. Maybe Ishould explain further what I mean.

I am not thai. But I like the game of haggling. Its not that different from what I did in the west for a multinational. here you need 40 whiskey instead of a ticket to a football game. One thing, I keep my word. If I agree to sell for a price next week and suddenly the marketprice goes up I sell at the agreed price. And I expect the same from my suppliers.

But I will also establish relationships and play the game within my own boundaries.

Everything I sell has three prices. a target price (what I want to get). a minimal price (under which I will not sell) and a cost price. If you sometimes sell between the target and minimal price you stillmake a profit. And if you make that look like they win...

But you also must be able to stand firm. A guy who I do a lot of business with owed me 12000 bath or the equivalent in piglets and had been promising them for 2 months. when he was at my farm 5 days ago with three helpers I actually closed and locked the gate behind his car (everytime Ibrought it up he jumped in his car and drove away). things initially got heated but I got half of my money (in piglets) after which I offered to pay for his gas since he had brought me piglets:-) that way he could brag to his helpers that he had had the farang pay for his gas. no loss of face.

I bring a lot of business his way and sure enough the next day he was on the phone, asking me not todo the same again and bringing the other piglets over in the afternoon.

As another example, I have a local butcher who guarantees a certain price for my pigs which is quiet good when the price is low (at the moment its 7 bath higher thwn the other buyers) But he pays when themeat is sold and you have to work to get it. He ways pays, but it might be in 1 week or in 2 months. But the difference is substantial and often worth the wait. When weighing the pigs things get heated over half a kg. my wife and his wife are sometimes afraid that we will come to blows but we both love it. And I do let hom win sometimes conceding a kilo because I know he pays much more then others anyway.

He can bully many of his pig suppliers but not me and he respects that.

Even so if his debt becomes too big I sell to another buyer for less profit and phone him telling that I have sold to another because I needed the money. Off course he can have the next batch if he pays part of his dept first.

The main point is that my thai contacts like to deal with us because we deliver quality, keep our word and are fun to deal with. In this last part I play a little part (mainly as the clown) 90% of the credit goes to my wife.

But having fun is very, very important to thais and one of the main reasons I like to do business here.

And it seems to be working. we are now also the contact point for an industry buyer in this district.

people who buy feed in one of several betagro-feed shops in the district and ask about buyers for their pigs get our phone number. We assess their pigs and tell the buyer if they are of good quality. they then agree a price. We look furter and if we have found enough a truck will come to get them. of course we get a provision. In this role we visit a lot if farms and our way of western-thai dealing seems to work well (as is proven by worth of mouth advertisement).

Again I don't think we realy disagree. I just don't set a price. Instead I set a range in which I can navigate.

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[revar]

Ps it works the other way around as well, I can buy my feed and piglets at some suppliers on credit which they normally don't do.

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[revar]

Despite of all warnings, because I am a stuborn guy who is determined to succeed, I got 60 new piglets in two bulk deals ranging from 5 to 25 kg. Its nice if you have three different suppliets trying to become your house-supplier, I got an extremely good deal and would normally pay twice what I paid now.

btw Even with current prices I am still making a profit. During this budist lent period I am often selling to a processing industry buyer. They always need pigs, but they normally pay a few bath less then local butchers.

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What was lost in the few Baht less is balance out from the near 50% saving of piglets, and they always need pigs ! Long term business established.

I wish the 50% reduction was structural.

Still I agree that having a buyer who always needs pigs is a big help.

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