Pigs 101 (A Start)

[revar]

For those who use Betagro.

There are two ways to feed.

The village pig way which will get your pigs to 100+kg in 6 months is to feed according to the print on the bags.

The professional/farm pig way which (on avearage) will get you from 15-105 kg in 7 bags is to do it as follows:

Pigs under 10kg : Be-lac 300 (not included in 7 bags)

10-15 kg: Betagro 301 (0.33 bag/pig)

15-25 kg Betagro 301-L (0.67 bag/pig)

25-60 kg Betagro 301-B (3 bags/pig)

60-90 kg Betagro 302 (2 bags/pig)

90-105 kg Betagro 303 (1bag/pig)

This will get your pigs to 105 kg (if you start with 301 with 15kg piglets) in just over 4 months with only a little bit of fat and a lot of red meat.

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Edited November 6, 2012 by revar

[IsaanAussie]

Revar

Thanks for sharing these explicit numbers. Startups are never sure of amounts to feed and those targets are set very high, hats off on the nutritional value in the pure stuff. People looking for guidance, take note, you will not achieve these numbers using lesser grade feeds regardless of the breed of pig or your sty environmental conditions. Newbies, Revar has given you a good start here.

I'm a simple old bugger, if the pig is hot I feed it less because it wont eat as much, fat and he gets less as well, gone in a flash and I go around again, cold weather buy an extra bag. But these are "the feel" that you develop yourself as you go along. I have spreadsheets that I feed in numbers of pigs at each stage and it tells me how many bags of each grade to buy for the week and how much to take out of the ATM. This is a simple excel chart I made up myself and includes sales and revenue per week.

I will make one point, not every customer wants a lean pig. My chef customers definitely dont.

The village market will want a lean pig but the choice cuts are considered the organs and fat. Revar is supplying the meat market, me the restaurants. You need to study your market wants to demand a premium.

My customers want a pig at averaged FCR 2.6 at 100kg. Did you know that husbandry alone can change that number by 0.4. That is a big money difference. Happy stress free pigs is the primary objective.

[jompa67]

I guess most people here have farms with "open wall". They only farms that can reach results close to what Revar are talking about, is evaporated farms. Open wall farms need to use more feed to archive same result cause of the warm whether.

When I mix my own feed i try to lower fiber as much as possible. Fiber makes pig body hot when digested and therefor they don't want to eat so much, like IssanAussie talked about. During the cold period I use to increase fiber and then lower it in warmer seasons

[revar]

Some more tips on getting your pigs to eat.

I do have an open wall farm with 1.2 meter high brick walls .But it is in the middle of fields and there is always some wind to cool the pigs. I make sure there is always enough food and enough feeding stations. I also shower the pigs during the hottest parts of the day. They eat the whole day but most when I wake them in the morning, when I have showered them and when I have cleaned the pens. I also sometimes wake them up (sleeping pigs don't eat) after which rhey will go and eat.

Also important , I de-worm them properly when I buy the piglets and ad a vitamin mix to the feed for pigs under 25 kg.

If a pig did eat well but is not eating much now and others are he is likely to have a slight fever. Very difficult to tell. A diclofinac injection will get rhe fever down and give him back its appetite.

If a pig consistently eats little he might not get enough vitamins, especially vitamin b. Giving him a vitamin b injection often will get him eating again.

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[IsaanAussie]

I find the differences in our approaches fascinating. As slight as many are, it shows that there are indeed many ways to do things. I read the posts from others and ones I have made and I see that we are all still learning, our operations evolving.

For me the use of probiotics has been a watershed and I have not had to inject a single pig with anything since we introduced it. The pigs have never been healthier, shiny coats and all. We have no flies in the sty or on the compost. Mites and other pests have all but vanished (local chicken taxis still deliver to the door).

We lost a boar recently but that was because he "threw a piston" (heart attack) being a large heavy animal not because of disease or illness.

The wife has taken over the treatment of minor ills with various "weeds and seeds" she pulls up around the place. I must spend more time finding out about this stuff because it seems to work. Herbal treatments that have been used by the local people for generations seem to apply to pigs as well.

With the weather so hot at the moment, water is the key, cool and fresh. Showering or gently hosing the pigs to cool them down also reduce stress levels.

My next move is to look into prebiotics. These create an environment to increase the probiotic microbe populations. The goal being to increase the digestive uptake from the feed even more. DE levels that Jompa was talking about are difficult to estimate with most alternate feed sources but most contain too much crude fibre. If that can be broken down in the intestines more completely I will be happy.

Always learning

Edited November 6, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[humblefalang]

For those who use Betagro.

There are two ways to feed.

The village pig way which will get your pigs to 100+kg in 6 months is to feed according to the print on the bags.

The professional/farm pig way which (on avearage) will get you from 15-105 kg in 7 bags is to do it as follows:

Pigs under 10kg : Be-lac 300 (not included in 7 bags)

10-15 kg: Betagro 301 (0.33 bag/pig)

15-25 kg Betagro 301-L (0.67 bag/pig)

25-60 kg Betagro 301-B (3 bags/pig)

60-90 kg Betagro 302 (2 bags/pig)

90-105 kg Betagro 303 (1bag/pig)

This will get your pigs to 105 kg (if you start with 301 with 15kg piglets) in just over 4 months with only a little bit of fat and a lot of red meat.

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how much does it cost per head,

more or less

around where i am people are using

1-balance

2-top feed

3-top mix

4- perfect (tryed never again) Even if free

5-Jbf

and some others

from my experience which is not much to shout about,

tried balance then something called best feed then jbf then perfect but had to come back to balance eat well grow well no explosive diarrhea.

but i am very enterested on the "pure betagro" price and availability

obviously i will have to look for it in my area but maybe you could let me know on your side how much it costs per head,

Thanks

Edited November 7, 2012 by humblefalang

[revar]

IA,

I would like to use your approach but realise that I still have to learn a lot before I could be succesful thisway. I have no where near your experience so I now use the easier approach for now.

I would love to have as low a death rate as you. I still lose piglets to wasting dissease and purple ear.

Scorpions are also a problem at the moment. I resecently had to rebuild part of the roof and scorpion fell down. Curious pig investigates. One dead pig.

They also make their home in the bricks of the wall and with my pigs as curious and playfull as they are...

I would love to hear more about herbal treatments since I don't like to use (expensive) medicines too much. I would love herbal treatments for diarea and fever.

With the wind blowing through the pen and me cooling them down with water the pigs sometimes catch a cold and a fever.

Love to learn from you and others on the forum.

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[revar]

AverageCosts per head depends on the size of the piglet. 7kg piglets: about 3500 bath which includes be-lac creep and weaner feed.

Feeding from 15 kg around 3200 bath.

I like to buy piglets around 20 kg in bulk (30+) with a big discount. This way you don't have to buy the more expansive types.

But prices are going up every few months. I buy my feed in bulk as well (100-200 bags) so I get a discount here as well.

Prices vary a lot so it all depends on acailability and negotiation skills. So treat these digures with some scepsis.

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[IsaanAussie]

IA,

I would like to use your approach but realise that I still have to learn a lot before I could be succesful thisway. I have no where near your experience so I now use the easier approach for now.

I would love to have as low a death rate as you. I still lose piglets to wasting dissease and purple ear.

Scorpions are also a problem at the moment. I resecently had to rebuild part of the roof and scorpion fell down. Curious pig investigates. One dead pig.

They also make their home in the bricks of the wall and with my pigs as curious and playfull as they are...

I would love to hear more about herbal treatments since I don't like to use (expensive) medicines too much. I would love herbal treatments for diarea and fever.

With the wind blowing through the pen and me cooling them down with water the pigs sometimes catch a cold and a fever.

Love to learn from you and others on the forum.

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Revar,

Your way on purple ear problems but the wasting disease is easier. It is a gut flora problem and can be fixed. Piglets at weaning suddenly lack lactic acid from the sow some will develop E.Coli and other nasty flora which upset their developing digestive tract, you have to out-compete that stuff before the gut is damaged. Medically you kill the bacteria but you also knock off the "good guys" I never had much luck that way as it seemed a matter of chance which bacteria repopulated first. That is where my probiotic comes in. EM will help but the strain of lactic acid bacteria in mine is supposedly much stronger. You can even use yogurt to introduce LAB into the gut.

Generally on death rates, I still lose a piglet or two to the sow's movement in the first few days. After that very rarely. Have not lose a grower or finisher in two years. But I have lost two sows to scorpions in my sty. That hurts.

For the herbal remedies just ask the villagers which ones they use for constipation, the trots and fever. If you are like me, you will be the only one that doesnt know in the village. Dose the pigs the same way. Termite mound earth for piglet trots.

You mentioned you disinfect the pens regularly. I use the probiotic in the wash water and out compete the bacteria rather than kill it. Helps with odours as well.

[humblefalang]

IA,

I would like to use your approach but realise that I still have to learn a lot before I could be succesful thisway. I have no where near your experience so I now use the easier approach for now.

I would love to have as low a death rate as you. I still lose piglets to wasting dissease and purple ear.

Scorpions are also a problem at the moment. I resecently had to rebuild part of the roof and scorpion fell down. Curious pig investigates. One dead pig.

They also make their home in the bricks of the wall and with my pigs as curious and playfull as they are...

I would love to hear more about herbal treatments since I don't like to use (expensive) medicines too much. I would love herbal treatments for diarea and fever.

With the wind blowing through the pen and me cooling them down with water the pigs sometimes catch a cold and a fever.

Love to learn from you and others on the forum.

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Revar,

Your way on purple ear problems but the wasting disease is easier. It is a gut flora problem and can be fixed. Piglets at weaning suddenly lack lactic acid from the sow some will develop E.Coli and other nasty flora which upset their developing digestive tract, you have to out-compete that stuff before the gut is damaged. Medically you kill the bacteria but you also knock off the "good guys" I never had much luck that way as it seemed a matter of chance which bacteria repopulated first. That is where my probiotic comes in. EM will help but the strain of lactic acid bacteria in mine is supposedly much stronger. You can even use yogurt to introduce LAB into the gut.

Generally on death rates, I still lose a piglet or two to the sow's movement in the first few days. After that very rarely. Have not lose a grower or finisher in two years. But I have lost two sows to scorpions in my sty. That hurts.

For the herbal remedies just ask the villagers which ones they use for constipation, the trots and fever. If you are like me, you will be the only one that doesnt know in the village. Dose the pigs the same way. Termite mound earth for piglet trots.

You mentioned you disinfect the pens regularly. I use the probiotic in the wash water and out compete the bacteria rather than kill it. Helps with odours as well.

Mr IA what is this probiotic stuff you use

is somethin g i can buy, find, make?

[IsaanAussie]

I dont sell piglets at weaning (28 days) and about 7 to 8 kg. I believe they are not ready for a double change. Bad enough they are only just able to handle creep feed but if you change the environment and biology before they can cope you are asking for trouble. I like to keep them where they are for 2 weeks before selling them. By then the LAB population has built up in the colon and they can handle pathogenic stuff better. Gut has developed more and their appetites start to leap.

[IsaanAussie]

Mr IA what is this probiotic stuff you use

is somethin g i can buy, find, make?

HF,

You can buy or make it. Leaving the effectiveness aside, there is a difference in the cost. Standard EM will do most things and cost 50 baht or more a litre. Brewing it costs me under 5 baht. I bought a starter culture kit and now have the supply food to the microbes. That is pig food and sugar. There are a number of companies that sell this stuff, I was lucky that it was all supplied via the Health Dept but was expensive that way. I use 4 litres a day in the water and another in the compost spray pack. One into each of 4 1,000 litre water tanks, since the tanks are empty when I dose them the rate is more like 1 in 500. If you are wet feeding mash then mix the probiotic with molasses in equal parts and cut that to one in 20 and mix in into the mash.

[revar]

I dont sell piglets at weaning (28 days) and about 7 to 8 kg. I believe they are not ready for a double change. Bad enough they are only just able to handle creep feed but if you change the environment and biology before they can cope you are asking for trouble. I like to keep them where they are for 2 weeks before selling them. By then the LAB population has built up in the colon and they can handle pathogenic stuff better. Gut has developed more and their appetites start to leap.

I wouldn't recommend buying piglets this small. But from one of my suppliers I often buy groups of mixed size pigs ranging from 6 to 30 kg for a fixed price. The average price of a pig is very good this way and I can make a big profit on the large ones. Even when the small ones die I still make a nice profit. But I rather like them to live.

And I agree that using medication to combat gut problems is a game of chance. With bad win-chances. Even when you seem to win sometimes they fall back when they are larger, especially if they develop some other problem.

Yoghurt? Can you mixed in the water or what?

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Edited November 7, 2012 by revar

[IsaanAussie]

^{Try whatever you like as long as they eat it. Mix or top pellets on the floor or in a bowl. In with water or milk in a drinking bowl. Man today is hot. How do you separate such a wide range of piglet sizes, got a lot of rooms?}

[revar]

At the feed store. Prices went up again 15-20 bath a bag.

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[revar]

^{Try whatever you like as long as they eat it. Mix or top pellets on the floor or in a bowl. In with water or milk in a drinking bowl. Man today is hot. How do you separate such a wide range of piglet sizes, got a lot of rooms?}

Have 10 pens at the momemt and am buildimg more. 8 are 4*4 two are 3x2.

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[COXYATCITY]

At the feed store. Prices went up again 15-20 bath a bag.

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hi Revar today ?, i have a small feed store,but has gone quiet lately same as yours as you have said before,as many of our customers ,small farmers have stopped growing for now. hopefully,.they will start again as the price starts to rise

regards Ian

[IsaanAussie]

Are any of you pigsters going to the TV party in Surin this weekend?

[COXYATCITY]

what a dreadful start to the day for me.the family has gone to feed the pigs this morning,and found my Duroc dead,he was under 2 year old,no sign of sickness.have not got a clue why he died,he was fit and strong,can scorpions kill a pig ,but i have only seen a couple on the farm before,but maybe a snake which i have seen many around,but its strange with 27 sows in the building why the boar,any ideas on what else could have happened

thanks Ian

[humblefalang]

what a dreadful start to the day for me.the family has gone to feed the pigs this morning,and found my Duroc dead,he was under 2 year old,no sign of sickness.have not got a clue why he died,he was fit and strong,can scorpions kill a pig ,but i have only seen a couple on the farm before,but maybe a snake which i have seen many around,but its strange with 27 sows in the building why the boar,any ideas on what else could have happened

thanks Ian

Sorry to hear that

last week one of my sows 2 month into the pregnancy died

first day did not eat, no fever just didnt want to eat,

second day still no food and a dark brown smelly discharge came out of the ass/anus (sorry not sure of the best term)

third day afternooncame back from the latex farm to find it dead

no idea of what happen,

any way my question for today

been reading a lot of this forum

seriously interested on the betagro feed,"pure betagro"

speaking to the wife last night

heres what she says

you cannot buy that feed, that is just for the big farms like cp and such

give the facts guys,

learning everyday thank to you guys

once again thank you in advance

Oh and how could i use algae in swine is there a use?

Edited November 8, 2012 by humblefalang

[IsaanAussie]

Coxy,

I would bet on a scorpion in this weather they come in looking for moisture and the pigs like to lay in the wet patches. You can get a fair idea by trying to pull a tuft of hair out. If it comes easily, its a scorpion bite.

HF,

Sounds like the discharge contained blood to me. Some sort of torsion perhaps. Or a twisted bowel.

I dont know the pure brand name but you should be able to find it on the betagro site?

[revar]

Betagro can be bought in betagro stores. Its just called betagro (numbers 301,301-l,301-B, 302, 203, 304), you can but it in betagro stores. It doesnt say pure on the bags, I just called it that to indicate that I dont mix it with anything ( qhicg a lot of people do). If you pm me I can give you the phone no. From my sales rep. He can tell you where the closest store is.

Ps. Cp feed cannot be bought officially as far as I know.

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Edited November 8, 2012 by revar

[COXYATCITY]

Coxy,

I would bet on a scorpion in this weather they come in looking for moisture and the pigs like to lay in the wet patches. You can get a fair idea by trying to pull a tuft of hair out. If it comes easily, its a scorpion bite.

HF,

Sounds like the discharge contained blood to me. Some sort of torsion perhaps. Or a twisted bowel.

I dont know the pure brand name but you should be able to find it on the betagro site?

thanks Tony. the mrs says the same,,oh well thats all part of farming..i have ordered a new duroc,but its to small/young to work at the moment about 60-70 kg. i also have a pure Landrace sow which will be giving birth to to pure landrace piglets in about 6 weeks,sow i will keep a boar and a few gilts,if all goes o.k..i will try mainly to use the Duroc and Landrace as a back up,so for now will buy in sperm as i done now and again

cheers Ian.

[IsaanAussie]

Is anyone interested in a purebreed Pietrain boar (around 200 kg). You have to be quick as the owner needs to sell NOW. I would buy this pig if I had an eye for the breed.

Coxy, I have four Durocs boars at that weight if you want one of those.

[COXYATCITY]

Is anyone interested in a purebreed Pietrain boar (around 200 kg). You have to be quick as the owner needs to sell NOW. I would buy this pig if I had an eye for the breed.

Coxy, I have four Durocs boars at that weight if you want one of those.

thanks Tony but i have ordered 1 already ,and do not want to let the guy down,as he has been so helpful in the past,thanks again

[revar]

Prices are finally starting to rise here. A week ago.

the processing industry buyer was buying at 43. Then 45, 47 and today 49. Still low but a lot progression in a week.

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[MrChangers]

First, Coxy sorry to hear you lost your boar, not been on the net for a few days.

Second prices are on the up in my village, been offered 60 Baht/kilo for next weekend for my 2 remaining market ready pigs.

Changers

[revar]

49 in khorat, 60 in surin. Might be worth driving a truck with 60 or so pigs to surin.

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[IsaanAussie]

49 in khorat, 60 in surin. Might be worth driving a truck with 60 or so pigs to surin.

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You better drive fast... that gap in supply will get plugged very quickly.

[buckwheatridesagain]

Hi to all; I raised Durocs in Florida,there were two kinds of scorpions I had to deal with.They were bad buggers and killed many a pig,also theres alot of cottonmouths...It's the only snake that drove the hogs to fits. I happened onto Guinnea fowl.They ate every scorpion they could find,kill or run off snakes, and the hogs loved being groomed for ticks or whatnot.And the best darkmeat you'll ever eat.I also read about pig poop concerns. I used mine in my worm beds... As an added thought...I was one of a bunch of small farmers that were just getting by raisin pigs,we finally got together, set-up a USDA inspected communal/collective place to butcher,process, and smoke our hogs,and started makin some real money. As an unforseen benefit,we got feed prices comparible to the BIG commercial outfits, and restraunts started wanting us to supply em.The only way to make money small pig farmin is to control birth to plate.