Pigs 101 (A Start)

[jompa67]

What is correct definition of weaning? Is it when sow left the farrowing cage or is it when the piglets left the farrowing cage?. Or is it something else?

[pigeonjake]

Hi jompa

I would of said when the piglets are away from the sow they are fully weaned

[jompa67]

.

[jompa67]

In the past we had customers who just want to have white pigs (2 genes). Now we have a new feed supplier and those customers we made contact with by the supplier, prefer 3 genes pig (L + LW + D). According to buyers, you get very little meat from the white pigs.

I Googled it on the net and find farms in both Denmark and in the United States who have more then 20,000 pigs and all are white.

Someone who knows the truth? 1, 2, 3 or more genes? What is the best combination of breeds?

[Allgeier]

What is the best combination of breeds?

This what i can see is that the 3 Bloodline breed have a bigger ham than the 2 Bloodline breed.

My own experiance are to less but on the web there showing many times Photos from this 3 breed. And it's looks good in my eyes.

Here in Thailand there use the Durocboar for the 3. Bloodline. In Germany there using more a Pietrain. Maybe here to hot for the Pietran. But i am not sure.

I made this photo last year. But the owner couldnt tell me what kind of breed. But if i am butcher i will be happy with this ham.

I will go this 3 Bloodline breed.

[pigeonjake]

At the end of the day it dosnt matter if you go 2 blood 3 blood or even pure, it boils down to the quality of the stock you are using!

You could have a 2 blood sow and put it to the best Duroc boar you can find but if that sow isn't good enough your still going to have interior pigs,

[Allgeier]

If i am a butcher and i sell meat i will be more happy with 3 Bloodline. If i sell the fat for the some price like the meat. It 's a differant story.

If the sow is not good enough then its maybe time to bring her to the butcher and use a better sow. Or somebody think it's possible to get a ham like on the last photo from a 2 Bloodline pig?

And the Ham make the money.

[Robert24]

If anyone is interested, I have 4 male baby pig for sale, original Norway landrace. I have relevant documentation/certificate for them. I can send photos and more details. They were born on May 14 and I only keep the female baby pigs as future mom pigs. Our farm is in Kalasin province.

[Robortas Budris]

I don't quite understand, I'm sorry...

[Allgeier]

Somethink is wrong with some pig. There got diarrhoe and the size is between 70 and 100 kg in the some group. After searchinh the web i got

Ileitis

Somebody have experiance with this kind of diarrhoe?

I injekt today Octacin - EN.

Allgeier

[Allgeier]

Thank you jompa67 for this Link. I saved to my bookmark.

The right medikament for Ileitis should be this:

http://www.group-a-vetdrug.com/Default.aspx?pageid=6&PRODUCT_ID=84

But this Ileitis can make also more trouble than diarrhoe. It's can be also a reason why piglet from one batch not grow on the some size.

On the pigsite there is also one kind of sickness. Called Dog Sitting Position

Sometimes i see my sow is sitting like a dog and also outsite i see this. Pig Disease i think is a big book who need's a lot of knowledge. Not so easy.

[Allgeier]

The member here cut the teeth from the piglet or there grind them with a grinder like this:

 

http://th.aliexpress.com/item/Piglets-Electric-Teeth-Grinder-For-Animals-Pets-Tool-Teeth-Grinding-Tool/32634136770.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a

 

15 km from us a Perfect Shop opend. On revar's experiance with this company i will feed one group now and i will see. But the biggest problem here still the local butchers. There buying the pig now for 58 Bath and selling them after for 150 Bath on the Market.

 

 

[thoongfoned]

19 hours ago, Allgeier said:

The member here cut the teeth from the piglet or there grind them with a grinder like this:

 

http://th.aliexpress.com/item/Piglets-Electric-Teeth-Grinder-For-Animals-Pets-Tool-Teeth-Grinding-Tool/32634136770.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a

 

15 km from us a Perfect Shop opend. On revar's experiance with this company i will feed one group now and i will see. But the biggest problem here still the local butchers. There buying the pig now for 58 Bath and selling them after for 150 Bath on the Market.

 

 

if you grind the teeth you should be able to get a better job done, then simply cutting them.ie less tooth left in the mouth.. having said that after many years the wife has now gone over to just cutting them. she say it is almost the same and far quicker.

the machine the farm used to use was a "black and decker" brand name. all in with the bit to grind the teeth i think they cost about 5,500 baht. this would last about 18 months before it started to play up. have bought a couple of these.... example of use: 500 piglets plus a month. can buy from the Companys that run adverts in the pig magazines. like with most machines ect you tend to get what you pay for....

[Allgeier]

Thank you thoongfoned for your answer

 

One reason i was looking for a teeth grinder was to keep Streptokokken  away from the piglet's. On German Website, there all advise NOT to cut the teeth. There advise to grind them. And it's also vorbitten by law to cut them.

I found also this Black and Decker on Facebook for about 6000 Bath and Dremel for around 8000 Bath.

 

This Streptokokken can also be  a reason when the piglet grow on differant size.  And there is a new Question:

 

When the piglet is new born. There get a Antibiotika or Penicillin shot or not? Because this can keep also the Streptokokken down.

For treatment on Streptokokken , there advise Phenoxymethyl penicillin

http://www.thepigsite.com/pighealth/article/360/streptococcal-infections/

 

So. Any experiance with this here?

 

[thoongfoned]

14 hours ago, Allgeier said:

Thank you thoongfoned for your answer

 

One reason i was looking for a teeth grinder was to keep Streptokokken  away from the piglet's. On German Website, there all advise NOT to cut the teeth. There advise to grind them. And it's also vorbitten by law to cut them.

I found also this Black and Decker on Facebook for about 6000 Bath and Dremel for around 8000 Bath.

 

This Streptokokken can also be  a reason when the piglet grow on differant size.  And there is a new Question:

 

When the piglet is new born. There get a Antibiotika or Penicillin shot or not? Because this can keep also the Streptokokken down.

For treatment on Streptokokken , there advise Phenoxymethyl penicillin

http://www.thepigsite.com/pighealth/article/360/streptococcal-infections/

 

So. Any experiance with this here?

 

 

[thoongfoned]

Just now, thoongfoned said:

 

contact farms will not do any injections at birth. for the best part of this year also they have almost stopped all antibiotics, only now used on a very small percent of piglets. dont even do the iron shot now. told that the piglet will get all the iron it needs from piglet feed. if they were my piglets i would give them an iron shot for sure!

re grinding. again the "company" strongly recommends that you use the grinder when doing the teeth. my wife has never mentioned to me any problems from cutting the teeth, so i presume all is well.

they would cut the piglets teeth once it is dry from birthing - so almost straight away. this help some mums because some dont like all those needle teeth digging in (mainly older parity).

spend time watching the mum and piglets, you will be able to spot the weak - problems one out for sure. always best to spot the early signs of weakness - help with mortality.

[Ace of Pop]

This what i can see is that the 3 Bloodline breed have a bigger ham than the 2 Bloodline breed.

My own experiance are to less but on the web there showing many times Photos from this 3 breed. And it's looks good in my eyes.

Here in Thailand there use the Durocboar for the 3. Bloodline. In Germany there using more a Pietrain. Maybe here to hot for the Pietran. But i am not sure.



I made this photo last year. But the owner couldnt tell me what kind of breed. But if i am butcher i will be happy with this ham.

I will go this 3 Bloodline breed.

It's s Thaksin


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Allgeier]

On Facebook i found a Farm there selling Pietran Boar and i was surprised only for 10000 Bath. So we drove there and had a look.

 

We couldt go in to the Farm. There drove two to the gate where we are waiting for.

 

But now is the Question what makes a good Boar? My knowledge is not so mutch in this direction. So maybe somebody can give me some advice what makes a good boar.

 

We booking the smaller one because i am worry the big one is to big for my sow's. Or not?

 

No idee.

 

I vergot to write there are about 7 - 8 Month old.

 

 

 

 

[thoongfoned]

7 minutes ago, Allgeier said:

On Facebook i found a Farm there selling Pietran Boar and i was surprised only for 10000 Bath. So we drove there and had a look.

 

We couldt go in to the Farm. There drove two to the gate where we are waiting for.

 

But now is the Question what makes a good Boar? My knowledge is not so mutch in this direction. So maybe somebody can give me some advice what makes a good boar.

 

We booking the smaller one because i am worry the big one is to big for my sow's. Or not?

 

No idee.

 

 

 

 

looking at them they are both under a year old i would say. dont look to big but depends on the age - size of your sows.... have a look at the feet, legs and hips. try and see them walking about before you buy. if they are all in proportion to their body size ( larger one look good) then give them a go. any vaccination history or breeding history? to my mind 10 thousand does not sound expensive, i bet they have eaten more money in feed then that over their life time let alone the cost of breeding them in the first place.

[thoongfoned]

the wife had a new boar come in the farm the other week - just looked at his paper work he came to use on his 372 day, 215kg. i will try and get a photo later for you. he is eating about 2.5kg a day and will grow out very quick - have seen them in the past..... got another boy that is coming up to 4 years old in the farm but he is monster, at a guess i would say 350kg plus plus. the only problem that i have seen over the years has been due to lameness. so im told by the company a stud boar should be good for 3 years once he is one year old, all being well that is.

[Allgeier]

About vaccine history i must ask again. 

We not see them walking. There just rolling the cage in front of us. If we driving this week again i will tell them to let them walk.

 

The boar on the middle photo is the big one. Maybe it's a normal size for a Pietran. I dont know. I think my sow are not big and not small.

Or i should take the bigger one?

I trust in this case more the experiance from the member here.

 

Thank you thoongfoned for your answer. I need some experiance in this part of pigfarming. It's maybe a good time now to begin with a boar.  But i am worry about the boar are to big and the piglet not comming out.

 

Or what is a good balance between boar and sow? For exemple a 300 kg boar is good with a 200 kg sow. Or my thinking is wrong?

 

Allgeier

 

 

[thoongfoned]

3 minutes ago, Allgeier said:

About vaccine history i must ask again. 

We not see them walking. There just rolling the cage in front of us. If we driving this week again i will tell them to let them walk.

 

The boar on the middle photo is the big one. Maybe it's a normal size for a Pietran. I dont know. I think my sow are not big and not small.

Or i should take the bigger one?

I trust in this case more the experiance from the member here.

 

 

disclaimer: 555. i only know what i have seen over the years and what the "boss" wife deems to tell me........

in the photo i quoted the pig in the box nearest to the camera looks the better choice to my eye. have them walk him about, get him to "mount" the wall or pig box have a look at them back legs and feet. ask them if he has had any action with the sows and what was the out come . i know they could just lie but i like to ask to many questions. my wife will testify to this........

on the gilt kg i would say at 220 -240 days 150kg would be good. if they get feed enough during and after lactation add 10-15 ish kg per cycle. as an example. upto parity 7 then they just tend to get taller instead of larger in the body. if you breed a small gilt it will tend to have problems and not reach a high parity number, again just from what i can see in the farm and in the paper work front.....

[thoongfoned]

51 minutes ago, Allgeier said:

About vaccine history i must ask again. 

We not see them walking. There just rolling the cage in front of us. If we driving this week again i will tell them to let them walk.

 

The boar on the middle photo is the big one. Maybe it's a normal size for a Pietran. I dont know. I think my sow are not big and not small.

Or i should take the bigger one?

I trust in this case more the experiance from the member here.

 

Thank you thoongfoned for your answer. I need some experiance in this part of pigfarming. It's maybe a good time now to begin with a boar.  But i am worry about the boar are to big and the piglet not comming out.

 

Or what is a good balance between boar and sow? For exemple a 300 kg boar is good with a 200 kg sow. Or my thinking is wrong?

 

Allgeier

 

 

ok on the size kg thing. the sow has to bear the weight of the boar. a 300kg animal is a large beast to have pumping away on your back...... (i have an image of a large fat fellow on top of a small local girl here....... i am sure it is not nice.)  again the sow has to be in proportion (legs feet) with her body to make a good mum. say you take that boar in the photo and he turn out to be 200 ish kg he will be fine on your sows, even if they are only 160 ish kg. it is not just the humping that can damage- kill the sow it is also the foreplay, that boar will be lifting she with his nose. to the other scale of large sow smaller boar as long as the boar can reach she back he will be good.

many years ago the wife put a cull sow in with one of the boars and left her in there while she went and had breakfast. came back a couple of hours later and the boar had killed the sow, to much action me thinks. the sow was about the 230kg mark and the boar about 300kg. dont leave them i the pen together......

the large boar that is in the farm now i would not let him anywhere near a sow that the wife wanted to keep, even the very large sows 250kg late parity cannot bear his weight for long - he is just to strong-big.

[pigeonjake]

also have a look at there balls, they both want to be the same size, and please im not joking

[Allgeier]

thongfoned:

Why you keep this big boar? You collect the sperm from him or ?

And we have the next question:

Who collect the sperm from the Boar and fill it in tube?
I watched some video on youtube and it's look like i must spend first a couple of tenthousend Bath to buy the equipment.

If i like to get 3 sow in gestate at the some time. The boar can manage this on one day or ?

Thanks pigeonjake for this tip.

[thoongfoned]

16 hours ago, Allgeier said:

thongfoned:

Why you keep this big boar? You collect the sperm from him or ?

And we have the next question:

Who collect the sperm from the Boar and fill it in tube?
I watched some video on youtube and it's look like i must spend first a couple of tenthousend Bath to buy the equipment.

If i like to get 3 sow in gestate at the some time. The boar can manage this on one day or ?

Thanks pigeonjake for this tip.

no the boars are used only to stimulate the sows/ daily sperm delivery if needed.

yep setting up a safe environment to collect the seamen will cost ya....... does buying the male outway the cost of simply buying afew dose of sperm here and there?

[thoongfoned]

i doubt that one boy could service 3 sows in one day, manualy. but if you were collecting the seamen for AI i would think this to be ok, depending how much dilutent you would mix with the dose of pure sperm.  you could always collect a day early then on said day again if you can see the sows coming into heat. make sure to check the  dose - need microscope.

[Allgeier]

2 weeks a ago. 2 young sow give birth and have "only" 6 and 8 piglet.
Last week i found a artikel in the web and there was written: "young sow are more sensitive to old sperm and get after less piglet"

2 Month ago. Here in the village. One time 4 and another time only 3 piglet. And i was woundering why so less. In both case the sow was a "young sow" who give the first time birth to piglet.

When i reed the date from the semen. many times is already one week old. Good enough for old sow butb not maybe for the young ones.

This is also one reason i like to have my one boar. To be sure to have fresh semen.
And maybe to sell the semen also. But this is somethink for the future.

If i collect the semen today. How to keep it for tomorrow? I need to mix the sperm with dilutent or not?

Somebody know a place where it's possible to learn to collect the sperm from the boar?

[thoongfoned]

12 minutes ago, Allgeier said:

2 weeks a ago. 2 young sow give birth and have "only" 6 and 8 piglet.
Last week i found a artikel in the web and there was written: "young sow are more sensitive to old sperm and get after less piglet"

2 Month ago. Here in the village. One time 4 and another time only 3 piglet. And i was woundering why so less. In both case the sow was a "young sow" who give the first time birth to piglet.

When i reed the date from the semen. many times is already one week old. Good enough for old sow butb not maybe for the young ones.

This is also one reason i like to have my one boar. To be sure to have fresh semen.
And maybe to sell the semen also. But this is somethink for the future.

If i collect the semen today. How to keep it for tomorrow? I need to mix the sperm with dilutent or not?

Somebody know a place where it's possible to learn to collect the sperm from the boar?

ok.  how old  and what kg are these gilts? (before AI) how many times had you detected them in standing heat before you AI them? when you AI any pig it is all about the timing. ie do straight away, make wait 12 or 24hr ect... do one time aday/twice aday ect.... also the heat, is it a very hot environment? these pigs that have given birth in the past few week would have been AI in late april/ into may. the hot season. it can and does effect have many the pig can produce, most farms will see a drop in born alive due to the heat in thailand, that is why a good farm here will wean 26-27 per sow per year. in less hot countries the everage on good farms will be in the 30's PSY.

sperm: the newer the better, one week old is at the very end or its life span, as long as it is alive it will work, as long as you get all the other bits to function well. ie good animal stock/timing/environment ect...

[Allgeier]

This gilts are about 8 month old, 120 kg and the third time in heat. 20 cm down from the backbone i should feel the rips, so i can see there are not to fat.

If i can see a gilt is today in heat, in 2 today i go and buy sperm and try on evening. If there stand and suck the sperm insite by them self i think it's the right time.
The next day in the morning again.
The lasttime i put this steelframe on the sow and she stand. The pressure from the steel should be some like the leg from the boar. And it was a good try. I will use it again.

 

The next will be to put my 8 sow in one group together.

 

Heat: There all not stand in cages and have a waterbad. So in the hot time of the year there have a chance to cool them down.