Pigs 101 (A Start)

[revar]

@thoongfoned:
do you keep lights on 24hours a day?

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[revar]

@sateuk.
i have 27sows at the moment so looks like comparable. i used to get 2batches at once and inseminate morning 8am and evening 17.00.
now i make 2trips.
i buy the sperm at a government breeding station15km away, minutes after it is collected, processed and checked under the microscope and have switched to collecting each batch separately because i found that inseminating real fresh sperm has much better result then using sperm stored for even as low as 8hours.

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[thoongfoned]

2 hours ago, revar said:

@thoongfoned:
do you keep lights on 24hours a day?

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

16/17 hours a day, 27  35watt strip lights just inside the barn, all at the front end of the pigs, try to stimulate summer all year long. leave one or 2 on at the farrowing end of the farm during night time. 2,000 baht plus on electric a month just for these lights,  wife thinks im mad.... later this month we have a new ceiling going in, from other farms i have visited we will not need the lights on during the daylight hours, it will be brighter with no lights on... im changing all the lights too, more expensive to buy but cheaper running cost.... the saving in electric for the lights should pay for the new ceiling in about 100 months time.5555 again the wife thinks i mad..... 

 

[thoongfoned]

On 9/2/2561 at 2:20 PM, revar said:

@sateuk
this is what i used when we didnt use farrowing cages.

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

you using farrowing creates creates now then?

[sateuk]

21 hours ago, revar said:

@sateuk.
i have 27sows at the moment so looks like comparable. i used to get 2batches at once and inseminate morning 8am and evening 17.00.
now i make 2trips.
i buy the sperm at a government breeding station15km away, minutes after it is collected, processed and checked under the microscope and have switched to collecting each batch separately because i found that inseminating real fresh sperm has much better result then using sperm stored for even as low as 8hours.

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thanks that is what I was planning on doing it's 250 baht a batch so good value I think.  Yes have thought about building a metal cage in pen it's a good idea

[revar]

@thoongfonged.
yes im using farrowing cages now. with the low prices the only way to survive was more pigs per square meter and i didnt have the square meters(ray) to fit enough sows using my prefered methods. it was adapt or leave.

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[revar]

@sateuk. im paying 250a batch as well. sperm is from governent breeding center and if i want i can check on microscope, which i do sometimes unanounced. checks for dissease etc are better then average and in my opinion this warrants the higher price (i can get sperm at 150-200abatch at other farms.)
however i have had the experience of a whole farm wiped out by dissease and forced closure if 6months and i never want to repeat this.

biosecurity is key. i change clothes, shoes every time i have visited another farm, butcher, slaughterhouse or anything to do with pigs.
however i see others (feed customers)being very biosecurity consious except that they buy sperm from the cheapest source which sonethimes is a boar driven around farms to service them.

Sent from my vivo 1603 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sateuk]

Revar prices in buriram at moment is 48 baht we can just about survive at this price hope it goes up soon or may stop doing it.  I asked about pig food prices at betagro to see if they going drop price by 50 baht a bag or so but they say no if that happened it wouldn't matter 48 baht a kilo 

[sateuk]

2 sows had there ai on 18th and 19th Feb then again 12 hours later yet today I have seen a clear discharge does that mean both sows need more ai?  Or do I just wait for 3 weeks and see if come back into heat?  Thanks

[thoongfoned]

1 hour ago, sateuk said:

2 sows had there ai on 18th and 19th Feb then again 12 hours later yet today I have seen a clear discharge does that mean both sows need more ai?  Or do I just wait for 3 weeks and see if come back into heat?  Thanks

i would say no more ai. when you ai'ed them were they still in standing heat 12 hours after the 2nd ai?

18/19th feb is only 2/3 days ago, keep an eye on them, see how they behave, ie. restless or look content/relaxed... if they return they should start to show signs around day 17/18. things to look for red/swollen volva, discharge, restlessness.... these will be signs of returns. some pigs if returns will show early day 17 onwards, some later 25/30 days. some times they will miss a heat completley and so on.....

do you use/have a boar for stimulation? if so make him walk around the sows/gilts twice a day, dont be in a hurry.....

keep records  of  how long the sows/gilts were in standing heat and how many times you ai'ed them, grade them good,ok,bad ect. do they suck the seamen through quick/slow ect. record keeping will help to learn each pigs traits.

have a read on these web sites. thepigsite.co.uk  pigprogress.com  nationalhogfarmer.com  these sites will have all the info that you could possibly need/want.

[sateuk]

Thanks will keep an eye on them one has calmed down now vulva gone down no more discharge . Yes they we're still in standing heat 12 hour later that's why we did again thanks for info

[thoongfoned]

1 hour ago, sateuk said:

Thanks will keep an eye on them one has calmed down now vulva gone down no more discharge . Yes they we're still in standing heat 12 hour later that's why we did again thanks for info

some gilts/sows have very long in heat say 72 hours, some will have very short 12 hours.... in the colder weather i can see sows will have longer in heats than in the hotter weather..... its a lottery really. the total born will tell you if you are getting the timing right. 

we average 2.5 ish inseminations per animal year in year out..... some sows that are in full standing heat for say 72 hour (under 10 pecent of our pigs will be like this) and you end up AI ing them 3 or 4 times can/will still produce 13 plus plus piglets you know you got the timing right, if say 8 born alive you know next time to spend more time checking/timing of 1st AI.

example; you have 2 sows coming into heat, you order/recieve 5 dose for the both of them. you AI them 2 times each but can still see that they are in full standing heat, split the last dose 50/50 with each sow. with 40ml you will still get good birthing numbers from the half dose if the timing is right...... just make sure they suck it through in there own time. never rush the AI, if you have problems with this or that it is better to just the the sow  miss that cycle, its only 20 ish days till the next one. just depends on how you/farm needs to work/produce.

[sateuk]

The other 1 calmed down now will just hope in 3 weeks doesn't come back in heat.  I will no if right as this sow always has 11+ piglets alive and strong which I think is good I try to aim for 10 alive each time and strong we make enough money that way,  the most we had born was 21 which was years ago managed to keep 16 alive but was hard work rotating them in and out so they got enough milk!! 

[thoongfoned]

On 21/2/2561 at 4:52 PM, sateuk said:

2 sows had there ai on 18th and 19th Feb then again 12 hours later yet today I have seen a clear discharge does that mean both sows need more ai?  Or do I just wait for 3 weeks and see if come back into heat?  Thanks

how are these 2 looking?

[IsaanAussie]

Hi guys,

I read a web report that stated.....

Pig prices in Thailand edged higher in the second week of January 2018 to THB 45-50/kg (USD 1.36 – 1.52) live. It was THB 30-35/kg (USD 0.9 – 1.1) in December 2017. The price raise signals that an oversupply of live pigs is being fixed. It is estimated that the price would surpass the cost of production (about THB50/kg) in the second or third quarter of the year.

 

My oh my, how are you still continuing? What is happening to feed prices these days?

[sateuk]

On 3/9/2018 at 9:20 AM, thoongfoned said:

how are these 2 looking?

1is OK the other on heat again think I might just sell it be the 3rd time now need insemination 

[sateuk]

6 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Hi guys,

I read a web report that stated.....

Pig prices in Thailand edged higher in the second week of January 2018 to THB 45-50/kg (USD 1.36 – 1.52) live. It was THB 30-35/kg (USD 0.9 – 1.1) in December 2017. The price raise signals that an oversupply of live pigs is being fixed. It is estimated that the price would surpass the cost of production (about THB50/kg) in the second or third quarter of the year.

 

My oh my, how are you still continuing? What is happening to feed prices these days?

Hi I'm getting 48 baht in buriram area a kg.  I asked betagro supplier if prices going down she said no staying as they are 485 baht I pay for 302 465 baht for 303 and 415 for 304 so cost me about 3800 to get a 100 kilo pig that's on 8 bags of pig food.  If food prices dropped 40 baht a bag would be OK!! 

[thoongfoned]

On 10/3/2561 at 5:22 AM, IsaanAussie said:

Hi guys,

I read a web report that stated.....

Pig prices in Thailand edged higher in the second week of January 2018 to THB 45-50/kg (USD 1.36 – 1.52) live. It was THB 30-35/kg (USD 0.9 – 1.1) in December 2017. The price raise signals that an oversupply of live pigs is being fixed. It is estimated that the price would surpass the cost of production (about THB50/kg) in the second or third quarter of the year.

 

My oh my, how are you still continuing? What is happening to feed prices these days?

company the wife farms 4 are still expanding in our little corner of isaan, more mid sized 220-250 sow farms are going up and one 600 head sow farm, if a 220 sow farm runs at80- 90percent it will service 7 ish finisher farms of 700 piglet per year. so that means loads more finishers farms must be being built also in the near area.... 

got a new ceiling going in the farm as i type, wanted to get a contract team in that specialiizes in this work, they were all booked up-busy, tried 3 different companies, same answer, no or many months waiting for team.... got some local builders to do it in the end, got some crazy quotes.... ceiling is 63m x 15m so a big-expensive job....

also within walking distance from the farm people have prepared over 50 rai of fish ponds ready for stocking, again working for same company wife does, many new contract fish farm have been signed up locally, afew of the other new farms that  started this is the past 2 years have stopped and gone to work abroad saying there is not that much money in farming the fish......

"doctor" i was talking to end of last year seemed to think the low price on pigs was here to stay, the culling price is still very low,  supermarket price is very low.... time will tell as always, oh for that cristal ball....

[jompa67]

Thai pig market is running in cycles on 5 to 6 years period here in Thailand. The meat price is drop to far under production cost and feed is going up. Then after a while it recover and then you have 4 - 5 year with good price and you can start build a buffer for next dip. That's how many medium size farms do to survive. Some people says, it is the big companies that clean out medium and small size farmers from maker so they can take there share of market. I don't know the true but i should't be surprised.

[IsaanAussie]

You two guys are spot on, it is a cyclic market driven by mismatches between production and consumption figures. When there are more pigs than the market needs you must sell cheaply or not at all and so production falls. Conversely when there unfilled demand higher prices will be paid and production rises past the point of balance and so the dance continues. I doubt there is any conspiracy by the large payers against the small farms as we are of little if any significance. By example I am working in a factory that produces sliced bacon for the domestic Australian market. 700 ton per week. Yes 700,000 Kgs per week of bacon. The few pigs I produced per week was nothing, even the total all of us produce wouldn't keep one of those packing lines running for more than an hour or so. 

To survive the rough times there are only two things you can do in my view. Firstly work harder and produce as much as possible when prices are higher. Secondly look at the cost of feed and ways to reduce it always, in good times and bad. 

I have seen several friends exit recently and that is sad as like me they enjoyed working with their pigs. For those of you still going, hang tough guys.

 

 

 

[jompa67]

Last year, the pig market grew by 18% while neighboring countries experienced problems with their local market. As a result, Thailand had a problem exporting to Cambodia. In the same time, Vietnam had created a trade agreement with U.S.A. Conspiracy or not, China decided to close all imports from Vietnam and increase their own production. So Vietnam market totally collapsed. Vietnam then try to dump local production on Cambodia.

 

What a mess...

[IsaanAussie]

Trade wars looming for sure and the current US approach is unsettling.

Both the Chinese dominated RCEP agreement and TPP (without the USA) will have growing influence on the local Thai Pig Market and Industry. Companies like CPF are players in most of the markets under those agreements (16 countries RCEP and 11 in TPP) with the 10 ASEAN nations included in both pacts as well as the ASEAN Economic development itself. But CPF and Thaifoods aren't profiting widely with both companies shares trading 30% lower than 12 months ago. Everyone is getting squeezed. CP has controlled prices in Thailand for years by decree but now it is more than just the local market supply and demand, it is at least regionally based. 

I would advise you to keep an eye on these globalising trade agreements as local prices will continue to be effected by them and by those outside those trading groups like the US. Most ASEAN feed relies heavily on imports of soy, corn and distillers grains from the USA. Last time I looked Thai cost of production was some 50% higher than the figures allowed by the US futures market. 

Same thing has happened to rubber and rice as globalisation takes hold and competition sources increase. What happens next if the shutters start going up and the USA tries to at least equalise it's trade balances with every nation that has a current advantage, who knows? 

As feed is the majority cost factor, that's where I would start. If you can get your production cost down to international expectations you will be OK. But reducing that by 50 to 60% is a huge challenge. 

[Snoozy]

Does anyone mill their own rice hull to use as a feed supplement? My wife and her mother are contemplating purchasing a mill/grinder (not sure what they are called). 

If anyone does this, can you recommend a brand or place to buy? I'd be interested in learning more, independently of what they do. 

[thoongfoned]

10 hours ago, Snoozy said:

Does anyone mill their own rice hull to use as a feed supplement? My wife and her mother are contemplating purchasing a mill/grinder (not sure what they are called). 

If anyone does this, can you recommend a brand or place to buy? I'd be interested in learning more, independently of what they do. 

sister in law used to have a large type milling machine, used to mix the rice husks with shop bought feed plus vegitation/bannas cut/grown.... slower growth on the pigs but cheaper.... at a guess said machine was 30/40,000 baht maybe more.... 4th or 5th ect hand very heavy machine ect... there was a thread on hear with members talking about the small machines that are available last year, 10,000 ish thousand baht, sort that you could pick up and put in the back of the pickup....brand new. if i were to buy this would be the type i would buy. lazda could sell them?, they seem to sell most things, delivered to your door, our children are always buyin stuff from there with no probs....

[jompa67]

CP has raise piglet price to 1400 bath +- 47. This is the highest price since beginning of October last year. I hope this is beginning of a positive trend where price levels are going back to normal.

[Snoozy]

On 3/14/2018 at 9:20 AM, thoongfoned said:

there was a thread on hear with members talking about the small machines that are available last year, 10,000 ish thousand baht, sort that you could pick up and put in the back of the pickup....brand new. if i were to buy this would be the type i would buy. lazda could sell them?, they seem to sell most things, delivered to your door, our children are always buyin stuff from there with no probs....

Thanks... now they are talking about buying a machine from the person who was supplying their rice hull. I'm not paying for it outright, but if it was worth it, I might chip in. Personally, I think they should get out of the whole things seeing as how they make very little profit, if any. But like everyone else, if there was a way to cut the cost of feed, then maybe it would be worth it to them. They seem to enjoy it. 

[jompa67]

Anyone know real price in Isaan for finisher pig? I know the announced price is 57 bath/Kg at the moment, but how much have you guys get for real? 57 is what seller wants, but how much is the buyer willing to pay? 

 

We have about 100 pigs that can be sold in the comings weeks. We have a buyer from Konken area who wants to pay 49 bath/Kg on Thursday (29/3 2018). Just the day before the new regional prices will be announced.

 

 A week ago when the announced price was 53 in Isaan, a market meat seller told me that Betagro are selling to him for 47 bath/Kg.

[Robert24]

Anyone know real price in Isaan for finisher pig? I know the announced price is 57 bath/Kg at the moment, but how much have you guys get for real? 57 is what seller wants, but how much is the buyer willing to pay? 
 
We have about 100 pigs that can be sold in the comings weeks. We have a buyer from Konken area who wants to pay 49 bath/Kg on Thursday (29/3 2018). Just the day before the new regional prices will be announced.
 
 A week ago when the announced price was 53 in Isaan, a market meat seller told me that Betagro are selling to him for 47 bath/Kg.

You should get about 50/51 baht now. But recommend you wait 1-2 weeks. They announce another price increase of 4 baht on next Buddha day, so I think you should target about 55 baht or so in my opinion.
Most farmers aren't selling now because they announce those price increases so much in advance.

Very weird market from what I am seeing.

Hope that helps

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Robert24]

Price now announced 60 baht in Issan. So you should be able to sell around 53 baht or so. Wait until after next Buddha day on Sunday and it might go up another 1-2 baht.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Robert24]

Price now announced 63 baht for Issan, up 3 baht. You should be able to easily sell now for 55/56 baht or more.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app