I've never found that any Western women have given disapproving looks to me and my partner in Thailand, but they do look with curiosity. That's fine, I'd expect it, even though we're the same age and neither of us are freaks. I myself find inter-racial pairs quite interesting :-) I'm curious when I see Western women with long-haired Thai men on the islands, but I don't disapprove.

I think it really depends on the couple's appearance as to how they are immediately judged. After "experiencing" Thailand as a traveller I realised that Thai women (or most Asian women) are my type for a multitude of reasons that don't really need explaining, and every other young foreign man that lives here that I know has the same opinion. Over the last 5 years since I arrived I've seen more and more young, educated and decent-looking foreign males embark on relationships with "good" Thai women with brains, decent job and even light skin (shock! horror!), and I can see it continuing. There must be something they like about us, and something we like about them with money thankfully playing an increasingly unimportant part.

When we're back in England and working together we don't encounter any discrimination either, which is nice. Having said that, in our town there are several older men with younger girls, re-enforcing that stereotype. Of course they will have to deal with the comments, looks and reputation whilst I also feel slightly ashamed out of association.

The only comment I did get was at my previous workplace in London by a very outspoken British Indian girl. After seeing myself and my Thai girlfriend together she questioned why I only dated Oriental women and made the assumption that I "don't like women who have opinions". I can partly understand her assumption because there are plenty out there who are "living dolls" and can't converse intelligently about politics, geography, business etc. even if their language skills were up to it. When I explained that we don't all choose timid, naive, opinionless girlfriends but rather opt for more middle-of-the-road intelligence with subtlety, less agression, less patronising attitudes to make the relationship less frought with arguments, she couldn't answer. When I said that we could also choose beauty together with this character the subject changed.

I have no problem with Western women unless they say something impolite or unjust. I have a problem with gold-digging.

But don't we all 'objectify' our potential mates? This is very natural, and while it is both horrible and uncivilised to make comments about a man as if he is merely an object, we must be careful not to take this too far or we end up drastically limiting what is acceptable, to the point where we should all be blind, mute and quite possibly, dumb.

It's become trendy to be on the watch for anyone doing any 'objectification' but isn't this just a word for making judgements, and don't we make judgements every second of every day quite naturally?

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Not quite sure whether you mean we should be careful that we limit what is acceptable too much or too little. However, what is acceptable to the guy next door as far as MY life goes, as long as I don't infringe on his rights or hurt him, leaves me cold. Whether I am 70 with an 21 year old stunner on my side is absolutely no concern of yours.

We make judgements every day, we have to in order to progress. How narrow our views are that we use to make those judgements, and how little effort we make to assess each individual case, will determine our future growth.

Making judgements about people based on generalisations is the easy, lazy and comfortable way to stay secure in our little world.

I have to agree with Will here kat, my whole life I have been attracted to guys with black hair & darker skin (causacion, mixed race etc) but when I first came to LOS didn't make the connection between my inbuilt attractions & thai men but found many attractive, which I thought was curious as I had never dated an asian man before. Personality is a big factor but we do make judgments every day & usually on looks first. But I wouldn't have made a judement on a guy just becuase he was farang & in fact dated a few western guys when I first arrived in LOS but found most of them to be transient & got bored with just getting to know someone & then they were off on the next leg of there travels & found myself socialising with a more thai crowd & meeting more thai men as a result

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I would suspect that a large part would be curiosity, that delectable female trait

I won't say anything about the obvious connection to the smouldering Kat.

And come to think of it, what's the point of discussion at all!

Ask the OP, I didn't start the thread did I?  I am merely trying to explain a viewpoint that certain men may have.

"I’m entitled to my opinions". What rubbish!

It's not rubbish at all.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Do you mean to tell me you think certain people are not entitled to one?

If you want people to stop getting 'heated' over a subject, the worst thing to do is remind us how easy going we should all be with one another's possible faults/prejudices.

There are no faults on anyones part here.  If you think a certain viewpoint is a fault, then thats your opinion which you are more than entitled to just like anyone else.  Just because you think it's a fault is in fact an opinion and not a fact.A million people could feel exactly as you do but it would still be an opinion held by that million.

good post carlbkk & think this part;

CarlBkk 

I've never found that any Western women have given disapproving looks to me and my partner in Thailand, but they do look with curiosity. That's fine, I'd expect it, even though we're the same age and neither of us are freaks. I myself find inter-racial pairs quite interesting :-) I'm curious when I see Western women with long-haired Thai men on the islands, but I don't disapprove.

as I think a lot of this perceived "disaproving looks" that has been mentioned on here are just that, perceived! If I walk past a westen man with a thai women & I am looking at them it might mean that I like her shoes or wondered where he works (one of my main themes as I really would like to relocate to thailand one day but only if I could get a job in my chosen field which is why we might not come back, but thats another topic altogether ) How do any of you know what is going through someones mind & how do they know they are even looking at you, they might be looking past you or through you even, does everyone have to turn away when they see as western/thai couple in case some one gets upset?

as I think a lot of this perceived "disaproving looks" that has been mentioned on here are just that, perceived!

I would agree with this. One never knows for sure, just has a feeling.

'Right. That's what I mean. I am not talking about making judgements on what we find physically attractive - most of the time I don't have a choice! I also have a certain physical type that usually gets me all the time. But it is not really racially based. Mostly, I am referring to people from another race who say that they are only attracted to people from another racial group.

I am from a mixed-race family but look mostly white to most people. I am usually attracted to darker men, which is consistent with my background. For awhile, I didn't want to date anyone who wasn't from my cultural background, but that was due to cultural issues.

If I am from a certain background, and suddenly I say that I only want such-and- such type of person from a totally different background or racial group, that is still racial selection. It is on a more romantic scale, but it is suspect to a lot of people from non-white backgrounds, not just myself. It sort of reminds me of the term "exotic", which is easier to relate to as something outside of yourself, in its "otherness". The otherness of this group becomes the main feature.

Anyway, I don't really feel as strongly about this as I once [/i]did, but it is a thought. '

Er... I might have had a glass of wine but WHAT THE 'ELL DOES ALL THAT MEAN?

But don't we all 'objectify' our potential mates? This is very natural, and while it is both horrible and uncivilised to make comments about a man as if he is merely an object, we must be careful not to take this too far or we end up drastically limiting what is acceptable, to the point where we should all be blind, mute and quite possibly, dumb.

It's become trendy to be on the watch for anyone doing any 'objectification' but isn't this just a word for making judgements, and don't we make judgements every second of every day quite naturally?

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Yes, but I don't think objectification and making judgements are the same thing, Will.

Not quite sure whether you mean we should be careful that we limit what is acceptable too much or too little. However, what is acceptable to the guy next door as far as MY life goes, as long as I don't infringe on his rights or hurt him, leaves me cold. Whether I am 70 with an 21 year old stunner on my side is absolutely no concern of yours.

We make judgements every day, we have to in order to progress. How narrow our views are that we use to make those judgements, and how little effort we make to assess each individual case, will determine our future growth.

Making judgements about people based on generalisations is the easy, lazy and comfortable way to stay secure in our little world.

REd Eyes:

I would suspect that a large part would be curiosity, that delectable female trait

I won't say anything about the obvious connection to the smouldering Kat.

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Cheers, Red Eyes. Like I said everyone, my comment about racialising attraction is just a thought. I used to think that it was a supremely important one, but now it's just a thought. I think the most important thing for me now is that everyone is happy, makes their own decisions, and no one is being exploited indecently.

Good night all. I'm going to bed.

I've never found that any Western women have given disapproving looks to me and my partner in Thailand, but they do look with curiosity. 

Having said that, in our town there are several older men with younger girls, re-enforcing that stereotype.  Of course they will have to deal with the comments, looks and reputation whilst I also feel slightly ashamed out of association.

I have no problem with Western women unless they say something impolite or unjust.  I have a problem with gold-digging.

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Nice for you. I like especially your comment on also feeling slightly ashamed in the presence of a mixed couple with an older falang.

I do not want to get into a never ending discussion about this, but have to mention that I am a little tired of the young guys coming to Thailand, believing that all the ladies here should be their domain, and that somehow, their relationships are different, she is after his great charm and good looks. No other person has the right to judge the decisions two adults make for their own life, and many women prefer older men for various reasons other than money or less sexual demands....

My experience in life has taught me that most women, from anywhere, don't put as much value on looks as most young men seem to think. Also, most younger men don't as yet possess too much charm, its a process that develops throughout your life.

C'mon... Flame Me

as I think a lot of this perceived "disaproving looks" that has been mentioned on here are just that, perceived!

Yeah, it's important not to assume a certain look means anyting. I once asked out a perfect stranger on a bus because she was smiling rather intently at me. Took till near the end of our second expensive outing together to learn it was not because she found me attractive, but rather that I had left my button fly unbuttoned and hadn't noticed.

cv

cdnvic 

but rather that I had left my button fly unbuttoned and hadn't noticed. blink.gif

adorable

Carl BKK - ashamed of what??? I dont think age has any revelance to a relationship unless its breaking the law. If the older farang is happy with his younger gf than good for him. Life is too short to worry about what people think.

Okay, I am a White American Male Born and Raised in Mid Michigan. This is MY PERSONAL Experience, and should not be taken as a Justifcation for ALL other White Males attitudes towards Western Women. BUT- In my Youth the White Women in my High School treated me like Dirt. I wound up dating Latina and Asian Girls. Then I joined the US Airforce. I Traveled the World and Learned about MANY different Cultures. Then I got out and Settled in Hawaii for about 10 Years. So after 15 Years I return to the Mainland US and I find that the majority of Women in the US are all hung up on how much Money a Man has in his Bank Account, what kind of Car he Drives, and all this Materialistic BS. SO, I return to the Women who treated me Good for the better part of my Life. Which is Asian Women.

So if you as a Western Woman, sense a bit of Rejection from all other Western Men, maybe it's because the VALUE SYSTEM you are so Proud of (Note how you describe yourself), Does not apply in places like Thailand and the Philippines. Here many Women care more about how a man TREATS her, rather than how much Money he might have. Sure ALL women want Money. But Thai Women have lived with out many of the things that Western Women have. So Thai Women don't care if a Man has a Car or Rides the Sky Train. Western Women not only CARE they won't even DATE you if they don't like your Car!

There in lies your Problem. Your Attitude and the Way that the Majority of Western Women have TREATED the Western Men, is what creates the Resentment you sense now.

I'm not going to go on a message Board and Complain about Western Women, because actually I am indifferent to them. I don't CARE about Western Women at ALL! Period. So if someone is actually Complaining about Western Women, that means on SOME level, they still Like you. Where as I am not even going to Waste my Time with you. See the Difference?

Not Only do I not like your Value System, and the Way you THINK, I don't like your Religion, Your Food, I think your Skin Looks bad, and Most of the Time Western Women are a whole lot FATTER than Asian Women. See the Difference? There is hardly NOTHING you could do to make me Like you. White Women have completely Shattered any Hope of EVER getting into MY WORLD. In otherwords I have no use for you, PERIOD.

If you want to Change your World, you have to Change yourself FIRST. Even if you are not like "all the Other Western Women" You still must deal with the EFFECTS that Western Women have produced on the Minds and Hearts of many Western MEN.

While YES I agree that it is Wrong for people to Spread Hatred and Contempt, I also understand that when people are hurt emotionally, especially in Mating or Love Relationships, These wounds don't heal very well, and people WILL express their emotions to try to satisfy the Pain they have felt in the Past. Some even want Revenge.

Me, I just want a Sexy Thai Girl to Fulfill all my Dreams so I can Completely FORGET that White women even EXIST. That's how I feel.

I think your Company should Send YOU HOME, and Hire ME! That's what I think. you are over there whinning and Complaining, while there you Sit WITH A JOB, Complaining about how people treat you in a Place you can't even Appreciate because your Values are all Screwed up. You want a Solution to your Problem, GO HOME and Tell your Boss to Hire ME! There's a Solution!

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OoooH! ISSUES indeed.... this type of attitude is EXACTLY what I was pertaining to in my original post.

Guess what? I don't feel rejected! I just wanted to know what was behind the attitudes of some western men to western women living in Thailand.

I don't let it get to me because I know that I was not the cause of the emotional damage and baggage that men like like you are carrying. (I feel sorry for you!)

BTW, I don't care what kind of car people drive or how much money they have. Don't generalise about western women because women are women, men are men.... any there are many Thai women who do care what kind of car you drive and how much money you have in the bank.

I happen to treat men very well (as another human being to be respected!).... I don't harbour resentment (again I feel sorry for you!) and I don't work for a company .... I happen to work for myself and do very well thank you, so no chance of firing me, sending me home and hiring you!

Cheers Big Ears!!!!

Apropos of nothing I am in UK at present watching BBC 1. 21:41. A program is on about men and women dating. A (male) psychologist is trying to talk about dating with a not very attractive and rather fat blonde female:

Psychologist: 'If you want a successful date you have to give him some attention and compliments during it'.

Female: 'No f***ing way he has to kiss my feet'.

No further comment.

Apropos of nothing I am in UK at present watching BBC 1.  21:41.  A program is on about men and women dating.  A (male) psychologist is trying to talk about dating with a not very attractive and rather fat blonde female:

Psychologist:  'If you want a successful date you have to give him some attention and compliments during it'.

Female:  'No f***ing way he has to kiss my feet'.

No further comment.

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And then I would kiss his feet.... if they are clean

Slim, Brunette.

It's not rubbish at all.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Do you mean to tell me you think certain people are not entitled to one?

TripX - Yes, and I explain why in the post you cited from.

Kat - I get you and it's an interesting thought to investigate, I'm not entirely sure of it one way or the other right now.

OlRedeyes - Im not sure they are the same thing either (judgements and objectification) although they do seem to have some similar traits. I am always worried when I hear someone say 'you're objectifying X' because it is often said as an accusation or criticism yet the process it refers to is nothing new between humans as far as I can tell so far.

Will, it's not all one and the same, because blonde or brunette is just a variation, whereas stating you like "Asian" or "Thai" is just another flip side of putting everyone from one race into another category, albeit an "exotic", "cute" or sexual one.

You're right that hair colour is variation within race, yet the key here is that racial look is no less a 'variation' of the human species as blonde hair is. They have different parent categories but the logic is identical. I'm putting everyone from one race into another category and you are putting everyone with one hair colour into another again.

Will, it's not all one and the same, because blonde or brunette is just a variation, whereas stating you like "Asian" or "Thai" is just another flip side of putting everyone from one race into another category, albeit an "exotic", "cute" or sexual one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right that hair colour is variation within race, yet the key here is that racial look is no less a 'variation' of the human species as blonde hair is. They have different parent categories but the logic is identical. I'm putting everyone from one race into another category and you are putting everyone with one hair colour into another again.

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Oh boy! I give up on this post even if I was the one to instigate it. I will stay tuned though Great to have all your opinions boys and girls!

Generally this is how it works; men enter a relationship mainly for three reasons:

1. Readily available sex

2. To get the satisfaction of giving protection and security to someone.

3. To be taken care of, mainly ego boasting.

Why western women seem to lose out against their Asian sisters is:

1. Asian women don’t get headaches as frequently and they also understand the importance of sex to men.

2. Western women try to project that they are totally self-reliant and don’t need any protection or security provided by a man. Asian women are more self-reliant, there are many times more female entrepreneurs and leaders in Asia than in Europe, BUT they play the game and make us men feel like we are protecting and giving security. Western women make us feel like we are not needed.

3. With the equality drive being pushed by the feminazis in the western world western women would not dare boasting the ego of any man; she would probably be burned at the stake by her western sisters if caught. Asian women know how easy it is to make a man happy by stroking his ego and they are experts in this, their sisters would very much complain and talk behind their back if they did not “take care” of their man. The Asian (buddist) way of ignoring the bad (confrontations) and only seeing the good helps.

The way a man thinks and the way the Asian women thinks has been the way things has been working for thousands of years.

The way many western women now operate only started about 50 years ago.

Generally this is how it works; men enter a relationship mainly for three reasons:

1. Readily available sex

2. To get the satisfaction of giving protection and security to someone.

3. To be taken care of, mainly ego boasting.

1. Sex isn't everything (seriously)

2. My wife, and most of my ex's can take care of themselves better than I can.

3. I can take care of myself.

My ego is boosted by being able to figure this out.

cv

The way many western women now operate only started about 50 years ago.

Interesting post ZZZ, although it reminds me how bumbling us men are and how in so many ways we are very simple. Women are naturally good at managing people emotionally, particularly male people.

It's not rubbish at all.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Do you mean to tell me you think certain people are not entitled to one?

TripX - Yes, and I explain why in the post you cited from.

I can't believe what I just read. You have a very troubling viewpoint and maintaining an intelligent dicussion with you would be an impossibility as you feel not all people are allowed to have their own feelings.

I am astounded!

Apropos of nothing I am in UK at present watching BBC 1.  21:41.  A program is on about men and women dating.  A (male) psychologist is trying to talk about dating with a not very attractive and rather fat blonde female:

Psychologist:  'If you want a successful date you have to give him some attention and compliments during it'.

Female:  'No f***ing way he has to kiss my feet'.

No further comment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And then I would kiss his feet.... if they are clean

Slim, Brunette.

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Now there is something many males seem to not understand Chivalry is dead... Long live Chivalry .. how the ###### do you spell it..

Generally this is how it works; men enter a relationship mainly for three reasons:

1. Readily available sex

2. To get the satisfaction of giving protection and security to someone.

3. To be taken care of, mainly ego boasting.

Why western women seem to lose out against their Asian sisters is:

1. Asian women don’t get headaches as frequently and they also understand the importance of sex to men.

2. Western women try to project that they are totally self-reliant and don’t need any protection or security provided by a man. Asian women are more self-reliant, there are many times more female entrepreneurs and leaders in Asia than in Europe, BUT they play the game and make us men feel like we are protecting and giving security. Western women make us feel like we are not needed.

3. With the equality drive being pushed by the feminazis in the western world western women would not dare boasting the ego of any man; she would probably be burned at the stake by her western sisters if caught. Asian women know how easy it is to make a man happy by stroking his ego and they are experts in this, their sisters would very much complain and talk behind their back if they did not “take care” of their man. The Asian (buddist) way of ignoring the bad (confrontations) and only seeing the good helps.

The way a man thinks and the way the Asian women thinks has been the way things has been working for thousands of years.

The way many western women now operate only started about 50 years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post.

1. Sex isn't everything (seriously)

2. My wife, and most of my ex's can take care of themselves better than I can.

3. I can take care of myself.

My ego is boosted by being able to figure this out. tongue.gif

cv

Agree, but

1. Sex is pretty important to a man.

2. The poster said '*get the satisfaction of* giving protection and security...

3. He did say 'mainly ego boosting'

So, redeyes, are you saying men are insecure and need their egos boosted by women in order to feel manly? I disagree, I think there are many men secure enough in themselves to not need constant approbation from a woman in order to feel important.

And just as an fyi to the poster waaaay back, most of the long-haired hippie guys you see with farang girls are not actually from the islands, just work there. My husband is an island guy and has short hair, looks very normal. Usually he gets mistaken for Phillipino for some reason.

And Kat, well, I hate to disagree with you that we all go for a type but I used to go for blond haired guys with blue eyes until my black haired, brown eyed husband swept me off my feet. It was his winning personality, honesty, decency and kindness that attracted me far more than his already very cute looks And I must say, living on an island that attracts many young people, we see all types of goodlooking guys, and I still find them all cute; eye color, hair color, race, whatever, all fall by the wayside

another generalzationm this time from ZZZ, is that ALL western women you are talking about, if so give me your name as I don't think we have met :;

And Niall, I watched that program yesterday too & you forgot to mention that most of the mens ideal womens shape was larger breats with an even hip to waist ratio & after seeing the computor generated images that 99% of them, chose one of the researchers said" that tells us that men like curvy women" so picking out one sound bite can work in anyones favour can't it??? Oh, & yes, that girl was a &lt;deleted&gt;

Boo,

I started off saying "Generally this is how it works" to clarify that it was a generalization.

It is perfectly ok to use generalizations when talking about a large group.

Do you mean that I should explain how every single western woman thinks and behaves?????

Maybe you could generalize a bit on what western women are looking for these days because, reading the posts, it seems like most men don’t know anymore and have lost interest.

Well, thats an easy one ZZZ, I can answer that for Boo. Generally speaking most women would like a man who isn't lazy, a liar, a cheat, an alchoholic, a drug addict, or abusive (emotionally or physically).

Most women would like a man who treats her with respect, decency, honesty, who values her opinions and treats her as if she matters more to him than his car (for instance, you can fill in football or whatever). Most women would like a man who puts her ahead of his mates, his car, etc etc.

Most women would like a man who is considerate and loving, a man who doesn't treat his wife like a live-in servant, sex partner, or anything less than a human being with thoughts and feelings.

If you find any of these to be demanding or difficult than perhaps it is time for you to think about what you want in a woman, think about it carefully and see if someone asked the same of you would you be willing or able to do it?

Sbk,

Thanks for that insight in the mind of a western woman. I’m certainly relieved to hear what you are saying and have no problems what so ever with this. Actually this probably puts you on the same wavelength as your Asian sisters.

The way a man thinks and the way the Asian women thinks has been the way things has been working for thousands of years.

The way many western women now operate only started about 50 years ago.

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So the problem then is that what western women want and what they have been telling us men the last 50 years are two totally different things, no wonder there is a bit of friction then is it?

Well, I shall now add my pathetic 2 cents here.

I think that giving a western women flak just because you've a bad experience is wrong. Yet, I find it amusing that a western woman would complain about treatment that is close to treatment western men complain about. I have had many female friends who look to me to explain why men suck.

I guess it's that stupid war of the sexes. I just ingore it.

So, redeyes, are you saying men are insecure and need their egos boosted by women in order to feel manly? I disagree, I think there are many men secure enough in themselves to not need constant approbation from a woman in order to feel important.

And just as an fyi to the poster waaaay back, most of the long-haired hippie guys you see with farang girls are not actually from the islands, just work there. My husband is an island guy and has short hair, looks very normal. Usually he gets mistaken for Phillipino for some reason.

And Kat, well, I hate to disagree with you that we all go for a type but I used to go for blond haired guys with blue eyes until my black haired, brown eyed husband swept me off my feet. It was his winning personality, honesty, decency and kindness that attracted me far more than his already very cute looks  And I must say, living on an island that attracts many young people, we see all types of goodlooking guys, and I still find them all cute; eye color, hair color, race, whatever, all fall by the wayside

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I honestly cannot see the problem with receiving and giving your partner a bit of a morale lift every now and then - especially if he/she needs it. My wife (Thai) makes me feel like the best thing since sliced bread, but is quick to bring me back to reality when needed.

I decide everything in the marriage - as long as she agrees with me. Otherwise, she will give in, and yet somehow manage to make me change my mind without really noticing. It makes for a much more harmoneously relationship than having constant arguments. We do argue from time to time, but always in a light-hearted way.

I will never forget two statements my wife made shortly after we married:

While shopping for furniture - and with a straight face: "We will have a happy life together - as long as you do what I say!"

Having tickeled her, blocked a playful punch in return, only to recieve a really painful pinch on the arm: "Don't fight back - unless you want to get hurt".

So much for the stereotype doctile, obidient Asian woman.......