Abduction Of My Daughter, By My Thai Wife

[Patsycat]

Have those stupid people not realised yet that the ball is in your court, and all their dithering is going to blow up in their faces eventually?

And that poor wee girl right in the middle, not knowing what to think.

When you get her, hug her close and never let her go.

[Mario2008]

Look for a new school and discuss the situation with them. (The current school will sure paint a different picture of you).

As I understand it, often the paperwork from the old school arrives later than the student. And you have the right to chance her school, only the school will not provide the paperwork. But that is something seperate.

[scott1999]

Look for a new school and discuss the situation with them. (The current school will sure paint a different picture of you).

As I understand it, often the paperwork from the old school arrives later than the student. And you have the right to chance her school, only the school will not provide the paperwork. But that is something seperate.

Yes Mario, spot on Sir, The old school will close its eyes to everything till my daughter just stops going there any more.

[Showbags]

I would just go and take her now.

Pick her up from school, go buy her all new clothes and never return to that other place ever.

You certainly have a lot more patience than I would ever have had, if my daughter in the same case.

[scott1999]

I would just go and take her now.

Pick her up from school, go buy her all new clothes and never return to that other place ever.

You certainly have a lot more patience than I would ever have had, if my daughter in the same case.

Thanks for your comment Showbags, But I must give the court the chance first, I will go with my lawyer on Monday to see them. I do think they will be summoned. Thanks again

[Showbags]

I would just go and take her now.

Pick her up from school, go buy her all new clothes and never return to that other place ever.

You certainly have a lot more patience than I would ever have had, if my daughter in the same case.

Thanks for your comment Showbags, But I must give the court the chance first, I will go with my lawyer on Monday to see them. I do think they will be summoned. Thanks again

Can I ask why you do not just go and get her now?

I presume she wants to come with you, why leave her waiting, a day or a month is a lifetime to a kid, remember how long it used to take for xmas to come around as a child, but now it flies?

You seem to have 100% custody so why not just do it.....you could always blame Nike.

[scott1999]

I would just go and take her now.

Pick her up from school, go buy her all new clothes and never return to that other place ever.

You certainly have a lot more patience than I would ever have had, if my daughter in the same case.

Thanks for your comment Showbags, But I must give the court the chance first, I will go with my lawyer on Monday to see them. I do think they will be summoned. Thanks again

Can I ask why you do not just go and get her now?

I presume she wants to come with you, why leave her waiting, a day or a month is a lifetime to a kid, remember how long it used to take for xmas to come around as a child, but now it flies?

You seem to have 100% custody so why not just do it.....you could always blame Nike.

Hi Showbag I do not have 100% physical custody yet, till the Court summons them to the court for them to explain why they have not followed the compromise contract between the mother and the father dated the 24th of January 2012. If I take her now there would still be a tug of war between me and the mothers side. If I wait a little bit longer, that will not happen, if it does I will be in a much stronger position one I have 100% physical custody, on top of the 100% education that I have as of yesterday, so I hope that would be enough to stop any tug of war.

. You said maybe my daughter wants to come with me, No she does not, she, has been so heavily alienated against me, she has no idea what to think or believe. I will give you one of so many heinous tricks they have played on my daughter. When the principal was trying to be impartial, the mother's side said I had paid money to her to talk nice about me, this piece of information is in a letter from the principal that I took to the Supreme Court in march of this year, I do not write to much about the mother's side and their actions, because one day my daughter can read this thread for herself, plus she ca n read who really wanted my her to go to a boarding school.

So for now Showbag I must wait, I will be going to court next week with my lawyer to summons them. So again I will wait, maybe I am wrong maybe I am right. I just don't won't my daughter hurt any more. Which will happen its just how much. Thanks again for your comment.

[Showbags]

Fair enough, understand now.

Are you in touch with your daughter at all?

No mobile phone to send messages or talk with her?

[scott1999]

Fair enough, understand now.

Are you in touch with your daughter at all?

No mobile phone to send messages or talk with her?

Hi Showbags thanks for your interest. No I have no way of contacting her with out it becoming too stressful for her, Its very bad no child should have to suffer this. But I am so proud of her and look forward to re bonding with her in a safe environment.

[Showbags]

So how do you actually plan to 'get her'when the time comes?

Are you worried she may not want to go with you?

Sorry as you probably mentioned it before, but how long has it been you have not lived with your daughter?

[Patsycat]

I presume since he started the thread, three years or so.

[benalibina]

What a waste of time, 3 years. So close but far away. For what ? Mother lives/lived in England and denied willingly the child love of her father. Fighting for love, people do when they want to conquer the heart of another because they are in love. Not for 1s own child. Sadly enough this not a spdcific thai problem. Happens everywhere in the world. The court here nedds over 3 yezr to rule in the best interest of the child. He is lucky, rightfully so i might add, that they ruled in his, and his daughter's favour.

Be over soon Paul.

[scott1999]

So how do you actually plan to 'get her'when the time comes?

Are you worried she may not want to go with you?

Sorry as you probably mentioned it before, but how long has it been you have not lived with your daughter?

So how do you actually plan to 'get her'when the time comes?

Up to the court on the best way to do this.

Are you worried she may not want to go with you?

Answered in above post to you.

Sorry as you probably mentioned it before, but how long has it been you have not lived with your daughter?

Answered by Patsycat.

Dates:

August 2009 the mother went to live in England leaving me to take care of my daughter alone. The mother came back August 2010 for a visit. September 12th my daughter was kidnapped by mother's side. 0 contact with my daughter till march 2011 when I had the first court appearance. After 8 more court appearances on 24th of Jan 2012 we made a compromise contract. The mother appealed her own agreement soon after, July 2012 appeal rejected. She appealed to Supreme Court. Rejected 14th October 2013, after 30 days it has become legal. Next week they will be summoned to the court to explain why they have not followed the compromise contract.

[scott1999]

What a waste of time, 3 years. So close but far away. For what ? Mother lives/lived in England and denied willingly the child love of her father. Fighting for love, people do when they want to conquer the heart of another because they are in love. Not for 1s own child. Sadly enough this not a spdcific thai problem. Happens everywhere in the world. The court here nedds over 3 yezr to rule in the best interest of the child. He is lucky, rightfully so i might add, that they ruled in his, and his daughter's favour.

Be over soon Paul.

Hi Mr. P.

I am very happy you contacted Micheal,to reach out when you are in so much pain and hurt shows great strength Sir.

Micheal has been with me every step of the way for my problems. We have both learn't so much, RE the Thai legal system to do with children. When we go to court now we are shown great respect from the office staff and the judges that we talk to. It's like this, my lawyer is lower then a dog to a judge and must follow strict protocol while in the court. We are farangs and are a bit of an oddity to them, we are not in their culture as to say. So they do not get offended when we politely but in, when they are talking.

Because of this fact, Micheal was able to turn the tide of my case after getting a good beating in the first two court hearings. I must thank him forever for his help in my matters.

Remember Mr. P we have and will continue to grow and learn from what has and is happening to us, on a daily basis. The perpetrators never learn and are stuck in a groove of an ever decreasing circle of friends family and authorities that will help them in their sick behavior. Where we, the targeted parent ( TP ) begin a journey of self discovery and education on this heinous sickness of child alienation of one parent being the alienating parent ( AP ) and the other being the ( TP ).

Your a good man Mr. P. hang in there Sir your children when free from the bondage of the AP behavior will love you even more for your fight for what is right in the matter of your children.

[benalibina]

Thanks alot Paul, its done me good writing things down to M. About a possible courtbattle, well......i am not in Thailand like you, so that is something maybe for later next year. I have learned alot from, sadly to say, your situation the last 3 years. I have read your topic over and over again. You have chosen to follow the path of the law. At the moment i still feel, right or wrong, that i can avoid it. M referred to mental strength. That is, fck difficult though, what i have been working on since i started to read all kind of related topics in mid of May. Spoonman's topic and yours have the closest resemblance to mine. I really thinking sometimes that is seems like watching a movie, tragic comedy with alot of supense, but i am playing a main chapter in it.

About Parental Alienation. I have joined a group, US based and read truly horror stories there. Bear in mind i witnessed it only for 2 weeks and blamed myself, due to longterm absence, for it, eventhough i knew something was not OK. In july i found out and read alot about PA and since joining the facebookgroup i feel so sad and get so angry how parents can act that way to their child and the other parent. Their previous spouse with whom they have chosen to have children with. Reading these stories make me more and more convinced that the people who take care my children now, SIL and her oldest daughter, are well.......just evil. All this while the mother of the kids is in Patong doing.......

I truly feel for you Paul of what you had to endure the last 3 years. Nobody can be prepared for that. The emotional consequences of PA are beyond anybody's imagination. This for the alienated parent in the time he/she is living it and the consistent manipulation done by the alienators to the child(ren). I have read stories from children, heartbreaking. The guilt they felt when the truth came out and/or they discovered it themselves towards the alienated parent well......

Again i am "lucky" now that i am prepared because of earlier this year, reading about PA and that i am 10.000 km away. In August i spoke last time with the kids. Sorry, 1 daughter was allowed to speak with me for 3 minutes on my birthday in September after i nearly begged for it. This week i was promised to speak with them. Called via skype twice. Both time oldest daughter of SIL answered but hung up after 30 seconds. Later i called via mobile, man answered, told me kids not there. They there because heard them before on the background i replied. Hung up too. Youngest daughter, IMO good girl of 18 yrs old, wrote that i could call again to her later. Called spoke, they needed to be somewhat forced, with my kids. Told 1 daughter that i missed and loved her alot. Asked her if she loves me too. I dont know she replied !! 18 yr old apologised later via fb and added that her mother and older sister not want i speak with the kids.

Most likely you had to endure heartships as well from your daughter last years but the children are never to blame. It hurts though to see, feel, know that your daughter doesnt want to know about you. Thats the influence an alienator has on the kids. Jealousy, selfishness, lack of empathy and vengeful thats the alienator caractertraits. At no cost.

Well Paul, for you its nearly over and surely you will give your daughter the love she truly deserves and hopefully when she is old enough to understand your ordeal of the last years together with the reasons why you did it, the book can be totally closed.

Well done Paul.

[Showbags]

It is very hard when your kids are involved and as a father you are meant to be there to provide and take care of them.

Who is this Michael guy ?

If a secret crusader, no problem, good on him.

[scott1999]

Thanks alot Paul, its done me good writing things down to M. About a possible courtbattle, well......i am not in Thailand like you, so that is something maybe for later next year. I have learned alot from, sadly to say, your situation the last 3 years. I have read your topic over and over again. You have chosen to follow the path of the law. At the moment i still feel, right or wrong, that i can avoid it. M referred to mental strength. That is, fck difficult though, what i have been working on since i started to read all kind of related topics in mid of May. Spoonman's topic and yours have the closest resemblance to mine. I really thinking sometimes that is seems like watching a movie, tragic comedy with alot of supense, but i am playing a main chapter in it.

About Parental Alienation. I have joined a group, US based and read truly horror stories there. Bear in mind i witnessed it only for 2 weeks and blamed myself, due to longterm absence, for it, eventhough i knew something was not OK. In july i found out and read alot about PA and since joining the facebookgroup i feel so sad and get so angry how parents can act that way to their child and the other parent. Their previous spouse with whom they have chosen to have children with. Reading these stories make me more and more convinced that the people who take care my children now, SIL and her oldest daughter, are well.......just evil. All this while the mother of the kids is in Patong doing.......

I truly feel for you Paul of what you had to endure the last 3 years. Nobody can be prepared for that. The emotional consequences of PA are beyond anybody's imagination. This for the alienated parent in the time he/she is living it and the consistent manipulation done by the alienators to the child(ren). I have read stories from children, heartbreaking. The guilt they felt when the truth came out and/or they discovered it themselves towards the alienated parent well......

Again i am "lucky" now that i am prepared because of earlier this year, reading about PA and that i am 10.000 km away. In August i spoke last time with the kids. Sorry, 1 daughter was allowed to speak with me for 3 minutes on my birthday in September after i nearly begged for it. This week i was promised to speak with them. Called via skype twice. Both time oldest daughter of SIL answered but hung up after 30 seconds. Later i called via mobile, man answered, told me kids not there. They there because heard them before on the background i replied. Hung up too. Youngest daughter, IMO good girl of 18 yrs old, wrote that i could call again to her later. Called spoke, they needed to be somewhat forced, with my kids. Told 1 daughter that i missed and loved her alot. Asked her if she loves me too. I dont know she replied !! 18 yr old apologised later via fb and added that her mother and older sister not want i speak with the kids.

Most likely you had to endure heartships as well from your daughter last years but the children are never to blame. It hurts though to see, feel, know that your daughter doesnt want to know about you. Thats the influence an alienator has on the kids. Jealousy, selfishness, lack of empathy and vengeful thats the alienator caractertraits. At no cost.

Well Paul, for you its nearly over and surely you will give your daughter the love she truly deserves and hopefully when she is old enough to understand your ordeal of the last years together with the reasons why you did it, the book can be totally closed.

Well done Paul.

It is very hard when your kids are involved and as a father you are meant to be there to provide and take care of them.

Who is this Michael guy ?

If a secret crusader, no problem, good on him.

Stay strong Mr. P your children are ok for now, you must get ready in every way for the battle of your life.

As for Micheal he is a mod on Thaivisa but he is very busy at this moment in time. But if you need advice he and Mario and Boo are the people to ask. But as I have said before Micheal has a big heart and a loves to learn as much as he can , for the best interest on the child.

[Showbags]

Thanks alot Paul, its done me good writing things down to M. About a possible courtbattle, well......i am not in Thailand like you, so that is something maybe for later next year. I have learned alot from, sadly to say, your situation the last 3 years. I have read your topic over and over again. You have chosen to follow the path of the law. At the moment i still feel, right or wrong, that i can avoid it. M referred to mental strength. That is, fck difficult though, what i have been working on since i started to read all kind of related topics in mid of May. Spoonman's topic and yours have the closest resemblance to mine. I really thinking sometimes that is seems like watching a movie, tragic comedy with alot of supense, but i am playing a main chapter in it.

About Parental Alienation. I have joined a group, US based and read truly horror stories there. Bear in mind i witnessed it only for 2 weeks and blamed myself, due to longterm absence, for it, eventhough i knew something was not OK. In july i found out and read alot about PA and since joining the facebookgroup i feel so sad and get so angry how parents can act that way to their child and the other parent. Their previous spouse with whom they have chosen to have children with. Reading these stories make me more and more convinced that the people who take care my children now, SIL and her oldest daughter, are well.......just evil. All this while the mother of the kids is in Patong doing.......

I truly feel for you Paul of what you had to endure the last 3 years. Nobody can be prepared for that. The emotional consequences of PA are beyond anybody's imagination. This for the alienated parent in the time he/she is living it and the consistent manipulation done by the alienators to the child(ren). I have read stories from children, heartbreaking. The guilt they felt when the truth came out and/or they discovered it themselves towards the alienated parent well......

Again i am "lucky" now that i am prepared because of earlier this year, reading about PA and that i am 10.000 km away. In August i spoke last time with the kids. Sorry, 1 daughter was allowed to speak with me for 3 minutes on my birthday in September after i nearly begged for it. This week i was promised to speak with them. Called via skype twice. Both time oldest daughter of SIL answered but hung up after 30 seconds. Later i called via mobile, man answered, told me kids not there. They there because heard them before on the background i replied. Hung up too. Youngest daughter, IMO good girl of 18 yrs old, wrote that i could call again to her later. Called spoke, they needed to be somewhat forced, with my kids. Told 1 daughter that i missed and loved her alot. Asked her if she loves me too. I dont know she replied !! 18 yr old apologised later via fb and added that her mother and older sister not want i speak with the kids.

Most likely you had to endure heartships as well from your daughter last years but the children are never to blame. It hurts though to see, feel, know that your daughter doesnt want to know about you. Thats the influence an alienator has on the kids. Jealousy, selfishness, lack of empathy and vengeful thats the alienator caractertraits. At no cost.

Well Paul, for you its nearly over and surely you will give your daughter the love she truly deserves and hopefully when she is old enough to understand your ordeal of the last years together with the reasons why you did it, the book can be totally closed.

Well done Paul.

It is very hard when your kids are involved and as a father you are meant to be there to provide and take care of them.

Who is this Michael guy ?

If a secret crusader, no problem, good on him.

Stay strong Mr. P your children are ok for now, you must get ready in every way for the battle of your life.

As for Micheal he is a mod on Thaivisa but he is very busy at this moment in time. But if you need advice he and Mario and Boo are the people to ask. But as I have said before Micheal has a big heart and a loves to learn as much as he can , for the best interest on the child.

Luckily, fingers crossed and touchwood...I do not need that kind of help and hope I never do.

[scott1999]

Hi all

Update: Went to the Juvenile court today with the lawyer. The Court showed us that some one finally signed for the verdict of the Supreme Court on the 2nd of November. So the mother's side have delayed things by another 2 weeks. OK not a great delay, so on the 2nd of December It all becomes law. Apart fro the 100% physical custody. That will happen after the mother is summoned on the 2nd of December to appear with in 2 weeks. If she shows up our does not show up at court it really does not matter as we all must just follow the law.

I then went to my daughter's new school to sign her in. That felt good I must say. I know at the moment my daughter is not happy about having to move schools and will fight me over it. But as my lawyer just said "it is for her future, and no 12 year old should be put in charge of such important matters".

Looks like this thread is on the home straight, I done hope so!

Edited November 18, 2013 by scott1999

[Showbags]

Whats worse case scenario if she shows up?

[scott1999]

Whats worse case scenario if she shows up?

Hi Snowbags

I can never be sure what the courts will do. But I have or will have 100% Education when and if the mother comes to court. Even the court cannot take that away from me as it is done finished. Plus why would they. So to answer your Question Whats worse case scenario if she shows up?

Maybe a stay of execution to do with when my daughter has to go to the school of my choice. But the mother's words are not that important any more. That's what my lawyer said. But who trusts lawyers. ha ha

[CWMcMurray]

I don't meant to scare mongering in any way.... But wouldn't the worst case scenario be that the mom comes back to Thailand, grabs your daughter and goes to the UK with her?

Wouldn't you then need to move to UK and start all over again with UK courts?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[scott1999]

I don't meant to scare mongering in any way.... But wouldn't the worst case scenario be that the mom comes back to Thailand, grabs your daughter and goes to the UK with her?

Wouldn't you then need to move to UK and start all over again with UK courts?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Hi Murray

Yes Sir you are correct I would not put anything past them. But It may give my ex trouble in the UK when I have 100% so I think not, but thanks for the comment.

[rhodie]

At least you are prepared for the setbacks. Never makes it any easier I know, but you have shown extreme resilience.

We can all only hope this is over soon for you. Here's to some movement in the right direction on the 2nd.

Once again good luck.

[scott1999]

At least you are prepared for the setbacks. Never makes it any easier I know, but you have shown extreme resilience.

We can all only hope this is over soon for you. Here's to some movement in the right direction on the 2nd.

Once again good luck.

Hi rhodie

Thanks for your comment I feel I am in the home straight now, we have movement most months now. Soon I hope it will be most weeks, till it is over.

[scott1999]

Hi all

yesterday I posted an update of events, But the post was full of me attacking the mother and the mother's family because I was in a lot of pain worrying how my daughter must feel with the knowledge of the fact the mother had gone back to England. With out trying to follow the compromise contract, to save any more hurt for my daughter.

But I have no power over them, they will do as they wish, they have thrown affection and gratitude's at my daughter for more then 3 years now. They say" we love you love you love you . But only if you speak bad about your dad and do as we say".

well (TIMES UP) and they are drifting away into the night now. Leaving my daughter with out a thought of how my daughter must feel. So be it, the last actions of the alienating parent AP is to alienate the child, If the child starts to have a relationship with the targeted parent.

So apologies to you all, yesterday in my pain I wrote a post that was full of poor me comments. It is not about me it is about my daughter and the pain she is in, But when the pain gets to much it is so easy to become the victim. Thus playing straight into the hands of the AP. So I asked the mods to take the post down. Thank you mods.

OK back to the update: I spoke to my daughter on the 21st of this month so that is a total of 3 minutes I have spoken to her this month on the phone from her school. first phone call on the 8th the mother was still in Thailand but my daughter did not sound happy and said "mummy was away working" when I asked "are having fun with mummy?" Then on the 21st she just sounded sad.

So the mother came and went again in just over a month. Sorting nothing out and leaving this mess to people that are in no way ready for the crap storm that is only weeks away now.

So on the 1st of December I will get 100% Education. The mother will be summoned for 2 max 4 weeks from the 2nd of December. A no show will trigger the 100% physical custody and possible arrest warrant. Then anyone who is taking care of my daughter with out my permission could be arrested. I know the likely hood of this is not great. But they will have to follow the law and allow my daughter to go to the new school of my choice.

So I will keep on waiting for the dates to arrive and pass with nothing physical happening but the knowledge that the law will soon have to be followed. Then one fine day in the near future, this part of my life will be over, fingers crossed.

Thanks to everyone on Thaivisa for your comments, whether we agreed or disagreed, and from the professional superb devotion to duty from the mods on this site.

Edited November 23, 2013 by scott1999

[Garry]

Best of luck

[benalibina]

Hi all

yesterday I posted an update of events, But the post was full of me attacking the mother and the mother's family because I was in a lot of pain worrying how my daughter must feel with the knowledge of the fact the mother had gone back to England. With out trying to follow the compromise contract, to save any more hurt for my daughter.

But I have no power over them, they will do as they wish, they have thrown affection and gratitude's at my daughter for more then 3 years now. They say" we love you love you love you . But only if you speak bad about your dad and do as we say".

well (TIMES UP) and they are drifting away into the night now. Leaving my daughter with out a thought of how my daughter must feel. So be it, the last actions of the alienating parent AP is to alienate the child, If the child starts to have a relationship with the targeted parent.

So apologies to you all, yesterday in my pain I wrote a post that was full of poor me comments. It is not about me it is about my daughter and the pain she is in, But when the pain gets to much it is so easy to become the victim. Thus playing straight into the hands of the AP. So I asked the mods to take the post down. Thank you mods.

OK back to the update: I spoke to my daughter on the 21st of this month so that is a total of 3 minutes I have spoken to her this month on the phone from her school. first phone call on the 8th the mother was still in Thailand but my daughter did not sound happy and said "mummy was away working" when I asked "are having fun with mummy?" Then on the 21st she just sounded sad.

So the mother came and went again in just over a month. Sorting nothing out and leaving this mess to people that are in no way ready for the crap storm that is only weeks away now.

So on the 1st of December I will get 100% Education. The mother will be summoned for 2 max 4 weeks from the 2nd of December. A no show will trigger the 100% physical custody and possible arrest warrant. Then anyone who is taking care of my daughter with out my permission could be arrested. I know the likely hood of this is not great. But they will have to follow the law and allow my daughter to go to the new school of my choice.

So I will keep on waiting for the dates to arrive and pass with nothing physical happening but the knowledge that the law will soon have to be followed. Then one fine day in the near future, this part of my life will be over, fingers crossed.

Thanks to everyone on Thaivisa for your comments, whether we agreed or disagreed, and from the professional superb devotion to duty from the mods on this site.

I have not read the post from you which the mods have deleted upon your request. But ofcourse it is personal and hurting for you as well. This whole topic is about you and your love for your daughter. I would think that everybody can understand your personal anger towards your FIL. Thus therefore emphatic people can read between the lines.

Good luck Paul in the last leg towards the homestraight.

[Patsycat]

Every time i see that you have posted in your thread, my heart does a little jump. Just thinking about the outcome of all your and your daughters ups and downs over the years.

Stay strong. Your daughter may, which is normal, be a bit angry at first with the changes. But, in the long run, thank you for what you are doing.

I just hope, with fingers and toes and whatever else crossed, that your nightmare will be over soon.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Patsycat

[scott1999]

Hi all

Small update

No news is good news, the waiting is almost over the mother’s side cannot comply with the court order dated the 24^th of Jan 2012 now as of 4pm today they are out of time.

On Monday my lawyer will summons the mother; with my thinking that she is now back in England there is no chance of her appearing.

So now I will wait for Monday to see how my lawyer gets on at the court.

But I do miss my daughter very much; she may feel well and truly abandoned now. I just don’t know? What with me not trying to contact her too much, and the mother going back to England yet again.

But this terrible situation is almost over, may Buddha and Jesus take care of my daughter for just a little bit longer.

Reunite the charity in England that helped me in the beginning of all this rang me last night. To say they are all rooting for me over there in their headquarters in Leicester.

So again thank you to everyone for your support and interest in this horror story. I do hope any one that reads this thread will think twice before embarking on such a corrosive, destructive and soul destroying path that I have taken.

Come on Monday!

PS But one plus is I have met some great people here by the situation that I found myself. So for every action there is a reaction. I'm off now before I really start dribbling.

Edited November 29, 2013 by scott1999