Thaksin To Return To Thailand If Pheu Thai Wins

[jayboy]

I think, in a hypothetical world where I was retarded and supported idiocy, literally the hardest thing about being a Red Shirt supporter...would have to be the crawling shame, overwhelming embarrassment and endless cringing at the stupidity of my idiot Comrades.

"you have not read the basic literature" - no, I finished school quite some time ago. But make sure you do your recommended reading, you won't want to be short on workshop Flash Talk Points for your tutorial. ??

"difficult to know where to begin" - I've seen your efforts before. I suggest (and this is really supported by History) that you don't. Begin.

I didn't realise I was so one-dimensional. Then again, I didn't realise I was back in grade school either. Arguing with idiots who misattributed polarised positions like the challenged special kids they were. That's a rare kind of debate fail you don't see every day. Takes me back.

Oh no, you started? In the face of all the odds - and against your 'better' judgement as well? (your better judgement, the sinking feeling telling you to go post on New Mandala where you'll be cultivated for your unique and beautiful mind, giggle)

It's not fairy tales you're reading, princess! His Majesty the King is the Head of State and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. I'm not sure why you'd get him mixed up with Peter Pan, but I'd be lying if I claimed I planned on spending much time on the 'mystery'.

Are you Thai? I ask because you seem like you're pretending to be. But then that would make your quoting your coursework reading list...weird, in an even more peculiar way (if such a thing is possible). If you are Thai, I assure you my Thai precludes our debating anything. And your English, whilst a great deal better than my Thai, unfortunately limits us in an converse yet identical manner.

If you're not Thai, probably best if you don't pretend you can speak for them. That would be...stupid, in ways distinguishable even from...you.

When you have some serious points to make I might return to the debate.In the mean time I suggest you start some relevant reading.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

When they voted for Thaksin/Peua Thai, they voted for 500 Baht cash in hand - that's 34.2 Satang per day over the 4-year term (in some cases!). However, his policies were costing them more than that*, therefore they were voting to become poorer, particularly in the longer term.

This is where the PAD's claims that Thailand "isn't yet ready for a democracy" stem from. They'd prefer a more fascist approach. However, you could use the same logic to developed democracies like the US or the UK - "I vote Labour because I've always Labour", even though Labour has gone from left-wing to middle-right wing in a matter of 2 decades. Surely people should vote for policies, not for a colour?

* I realise this is difficult to clarify - note that the economy was pretty successful under Thaksin, albeit during a time of world economic boom. But the "loans for farmers" scheme has cost the average Isaan farmer thousands of Baht a year, and that was just one policy.

lol good luck convincing humans that the golden years of their memories is somehow counter-intuitively or paradoxically responsible for their hardship now.

Or that they should suffer now so as to - one day - have a chance of seeing the golden years again.

Or even that if they don't accept cutbacks now, they'll lose it all (ref: Greeks c. 2010)

I think there was a fable about this...geese and golden eggs and whatnot.

But this is why the Red Shirts are the pick of the idiot litter:

Abhisit's 2011 social welfare programs (this is merely leading up to his "Cradle to Grave Welfare Socialist State" eta 2016 *if they let him give it to them lol):

Plan to increase civil servants' salaries 5 per cent Q2 2011. The pay raise, which will cost an additional Bt30 billion on top of the present Bt500-billion salary expenditure, will take effect in April 2011.

The government is considering extending cost-of-living measures for low-income earners, including relief from energy costs, while preparing to forgive a massive amount of farmers' debt.

Free electricity, bus and train rides for low-income earners, costs the public Bt4.5 billion every three months.

Originally, in 2008, when the price of oil spiked to more than US$140 per barrel for the first time, the Samak government initiated a total of six cost-of-living measures to help the poor.

Over six months, it spent about Bt40 billion.

Then, the Abhisit government adopted five such measures - free electricity, buses, trains and water and a freeze on the price of cooking gas.

The cooking-gas subsidy was dropped in March, but the Energy Ministry plans to resurrect it for another six months, with the Oil Fund expected to spend another Bt6 billion on subsidies.

On farmers' debts, the Cabinet approved a programme last week under which four state banks will grant a 50-per-cent reduction of debts owed by farmers, provided they join a related career-development plan.

Farmers accepting the offer will be allowed to clear their remaining debts over 15 years with special interest terms equalling the banks' minimum retail rate minus 3 percentage points.

Currently, there are about 80,000 farmers with non-performing loans.

Earlier, the Abhisit government approved a huge subsidy covering 15 years of free schooling. It applies to free textbooks, uniforms and other learning materials.

About Bt6 billion is to be spent on free textbooks; Bt4.5 billion on school uniforms; Bt2 billion on learning materials and Bt4 billion on special activities. Private schools will get Bt1.5-billion worth of state subsidies.

The 2010 budget for free schooling is Bt73 billion.

The government is also planning to introduce a savings-matching programme for senior citizens, covering more than 3,000 communities around the country in which it will set aside funds to match the savings of old people. Currently, the government is providing Bt500 per month to elderly people.

The cost of the farmer-income insurance scheme is estimated to be Bt30 billion annually, covering 3.19 million rice farmers (Bt28.35 billion); 379,785 cassava farmers (Bt2.43 billion); and 379,304 corn farmers (Bt5.63 billion).

Earlier, the government also initiated a programme to relieve the debt burden on poor people caused by high-interest loans.

About 1.19 million debtors registered with the government, representing a combined debt of Bt122 billion.

From January 2009 to April 2010, the government provided tax incentives for property buyers and businesses totalling Bt34.73 billion. It has now restored the special-business tax of 3.3 per cent after reducing it to 0.1 per cent; restored the property transfer fee to 2 per cent from 0.01 per cent; and restored the mortgage registration fee to 1 per cent from 0.01 per cent.

On funeral services for the poor, the Social Development and Human Security Ministry has allocated Bt44.13 million to pay for the funeral rites of 22,063 people who have died of natural causes. Over the full fiscal year, it expects to spend Bt475 million on funeral services for 237,663 poor people.

In addition, the government is reportedly planning a savings programme for newborn babies, who will be entitled to a monthly Bt500 state-sponsored saving programme until they are 18. This will cost the government Bt6,000 per newborn per year.

lol this is the "lapdog of the elites". Who's doing a stunningly cheeky job of moonlighting as the planet's most generous socialist.

But they're not interested in such generosity. They want the guy who 'speaks' to them. In their language. Tells them:

1. All debt gone in 6 months!

2. Next 6 months, I'm gonna make a fortune so nobody has to work!

3. After that, I'm gonna make jobs for your children!

4. Worried about floods? Don't be. I'm gonna build a dam around the whole of Bangkok!

5. We're gonna share the wealth!

6. We're gonna eliminate poverty!

7. And every child will take their own computer to school!

Meanwhile, everyone bags Abhisit for not *more effectively* juggling the corrupt elected officials which Isan continues to send to Bangkok.

And some people have this crazy idea, that Thailand isn't ready for democracy? But I don't understand...whatever could have given them that elitist idea??

[Insight]

This and your subsequent comments suggest, along with your bar room style of discussion ...

TheyCallmeScooter, if this is your first bit of communication with jayboy you'll soon realise he is quick to draw parallels to the bar scene with any argument which contrasts with his own. I presume the intent is to try and intimidate people by giving the perception of dealing with an intellectual superpower standing head and shoulders above the lay Thaivisa forum dweller.

Take it with as much salt as it deserved; no amount of university-style citations will change the fat we've been subject to almost monthly, indefensible reminders of how ethically bankrupt Phua Thai and the UDD are - a trend that shows no sign of abating. "Red bad, army good" might sound "Enid Blyton", but with red shirt leaders threatening suicide bombs and known red shirts guards blowing themselves up (presumably in training) even us lowly simpletons should be able to figure out who the lesser evil is.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

TheyCallmeScooter, if this is your first bit of communication with jayboy you'll soon realise he is quick to draw parallels to the bar scene with any argument which contrasts with his own. I presume the intent is to try and intimidate people by giving the perception of dealing with an intellectual superpower

I had the pleasure of interacting with him some time ago. I wish I could be bothered looking up his quote, but it was something along the lines of "not reading Amsterdam's White Paper is intellectual deprivation of the highest order" or some dribble like that.

I spent half an hour destroying a page of it.

He never responded.

He's a strange cat, that's for sure. I think he spends most of his time searching his e-thesaurus for phrases he believes gives him distinguished airs...or something. Of course he sounds like a <deleted> but I haven't the heart to tell him.

I also sound like a <deleted> but I can fire out this incessant nonsense at an extremely high rate of knots. I'm just saying...

I got ADD and not afraid to use it.

[kropotkin]

I am still amazed by how much second class citizens get all worked up about the evil that thai do do thai.

Especially, since nobody can be sure about anything - because of no free, investigating press, and because of the "justice" system.

We still do not know who is planting bombs......

Are terrorists being trained in Cambodia, or is that a lie?

Who did the killings at the demonstration?

Is there a religuous war going on in the south, or is it fighting amongst drugsbarons, or a certain organisation trying to prove the country needs it?

And so on.

And my favourite one, the video of reds receiving money.....What do these images show?

1// Money of The Great Corrupt Leader is paid to armed gangs (oh well, only 10% of it, sure 90% is going to middlemen as commission)?

2// Money collected by poor people is given to other poor people so that they can eat while defending the rights of poor people in BKK?

I don't have a clue !!!!!!! Does anyone ?????

If yes, based on what ?

[TheyCallmeScooter]

quote name='kropotkin

Especially, since nobody can be sure about anything - because of no free, investigating press

You think CNN and FAUX News and BBC are free, investigating press? lol

Here in Bangkok, the 2nd largest English daily - ostensibly favourable to the Abhisit and the monarchy - is publishing ludicrous propaganda from their cute little complement of Red Provocateur Journalists. Or highly possible just the single one Pravit. Because I'm a Red Shirt if he didn't write that Contempt of Court article in The Nation today...

We still do not know who is planting bombs......

Oh come now. Don't be ridiculous. The government is allied with the Army which is loyal to the throne. They have all 3.

Thaksin and the Reds have...0. Nothing. No legitimacy. No avenue to 'express' their dissent aside from Prachatai and terrorism. How often, in history, has the entity with ALL the power, bombed themselves 70 times to...? get more ALL? Give yourself a sharp slap imo.

Are terrorists being trained in Cambodia, or is that a lie?

Yes of course they are. But as far as the government is concerned, absolutely not. For quite - obvious - reasons.

Who did the killings at the demonstration?

It's becoming increasingly obvious that MiB snipers took out their 'own' Reds to frame the Army. All the evidence is increasingly pointing in that direction. Logically, it makes inherent sense obviously. It makes no sense for the Army to display unfathomable restraint in the face of armed provocation and taunts....for 5 weeks....only to then go crazy and start "firing indiscriminately" into crowds of civilians. And allow snipers to take head / chest shots.

There are videos of Army snipers shaving ankles and that of terrorists about to blow up trucks. If those snipers, with their skill, were taking indiscriminate headshots for the duration of the violence....the Body Count would be in the thousands and thousands. The entire MiB story is dark and twisted. For mine, I'm almost certain they popped a few of their own guys for the frameup. And the journalists.

Aside from that, there were killings on both sides. Needless to say, the myth of 'unarmed protest' has only served to prove those who claim such a thing was underway are filthy liars and shills. The evidence is beyond irrefutable that the MiB fighters drifted in and out of the Red ranks seamlessly, to take pot-shots at the soldiers hoping to draw return fire.

Is there a religuous war going on in the south, or is it fighting amongst drugsbarons, or a certain organisation trying to prove the country needs it?

And so on.

I don't know nearly enough about this to comment with any authority. But I've been to Hat Yai a few times. The people are friendly, relaxed. If there was a religious war going on down there, I missed it drinking (alcohol - I was surprised) in the middle of the day, sold by Muslim attendants. Who knows really...if Thaksin can hijack phrases like "freedom" and "democracy" and get CNN / BBC to play along, for all I (personally) know, Sarah Palin is the Pope and the President of Europe.

And my favourite one, the video of reds receiving money.....What do these images show?

1// Money of The Great Corrupt Leader is paid to armed gangs (oh well, only 10% of it, sure 90% is going to middlemen as commission)?

I always feel a bit guilty using that video, as if it's a bit of a cheap shot. But there is irrefutable evidence that the riots were initially Mobs-for-Hire, then once the MiB took out some of their peaceful protesting allies, you can bet your ass their friends and families became very much fierce anti-government activists. The evidence is from the Boss' mouth of course, surely you've seen the Thaksin speech? It's @ 0:43 in the clip below...

2// Money collected by poor people is given to other poor people so that they can eat while defending the rights of poor people in BKK?

When I mentioned feeling guilty, it was for this reason. Human motivations are complex. Yes, the amounts being paid out were high enough for many protesters to show purely for the money. But who cares if it's 20/80 or 80/20 or 50/50 on motivations. The poor fools wanted to dress up their kids all cute in Red Che Guevara fashion - obviously they didn't realise the bullets were going to start flying. I imagine only a very select group of villains were in on that filthy debauchery. And if you're not wealthy, fuel to Bkk is expensive. Food for the family is expensive. etc...the fact that a lot of that fuel ended up on innocent buildings is probably neither here nor there. I don't think that was the intent of the pay-to-protest handouts...

[jayboy]

TheyCallmeScooter, if this is your first bit of communication with jayboy you'll soon realise he is quick to draw parallels to the bar scene with any argument which contrasts with his own. I presume the intent is to try and intimidate people by giving the perception of dealing with an intellectual superpower

I had the pleasure of interacting with him some time ago. I wish I could be bothered looking up his quote, but it was something along the lines of "not reading Amsterdam's White Paper is intellectual deprivation of the highest order" or some dribble like that.

I spent half an hour destroying a page of it.

He never responded.

He's a strange cat, that's for sure. I think he spends most of his time searching his e-thesaurus for phrases he believes gives him distinguished airs...or something. Of course he sounds like a <deleted> but I haven't the heart to tell him.

I also sound like a <deleted> but I can fire out this incessant nonsense at an extremely high rate of knots. I'm just saying...

I got ADD and not afraid to use it.

You would be surprised how little time I devote to this forum these days and certainly arguing with people who don't understand (or are insufficiently well educated to see the value of) give and take.In an anonymous internet forum anyone can pretend to be anyone they like.However over time the knowledge, intellectual calibre,education and even social background are brutally revealed.In your case , though I don't recall the Robert Amsterdam exchange, there is clearly an unwillingness to try and see the opposing point of view.Whether I "sound like a <deleted>" - to use your bar room vocabulary - is frankly neither here nor there.

[kropotkin]

I realise that i know nothing.

Therefore, i know more then most other people.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I realise that i know nothing.

Therefore, i know more then most other people.

Truth.

I never knew so little, as the moment I realised my entire life's sum total of watching media bulletins or news reports...was instantly potentially worthless. And that moment, somewhat embarrassingly for me, was in April of this year watching that filthy Dan Rivers lie to the world on CNN. Over and over.

[SomTumTiger]

Thaksin will never return to Thailand - he left when PPP was in charge, to avoid jail. He certainly won't be coming back, as the jail sentence is still hanging over his head.

[jayboy]

And that moment, somewhat embarrassingly for me, was in April of this year watching that filthy Dan Rivers lie to the world on CNN. Over and over. [/font]

Classic demonstration of how in a few posts the inner self is revealed, in this instance (in the way he describes a reporter with whom he didn't agree) clearly demented.What this fellow needs is not more relevant reading as I earlier prescribed but some kind of treatment.

Incidentally for the sane members of our community I noted Dan Rivers report earlier this evening from CNN London on the spending cuts, sane, relevant and interesting.

[rubl]

And that moment, somewhat embarrassingly for me, was in April of this year watching that filthy Dan Rivers lie to the world on CNN. Over and over. [/font]

Classic demonstration of how in a few posts the inner self is revealed, in this instance (in the way he describes a reporter with whom he didn't agree) clearly demented.What this fellow needs is not more relevant reading as I earlier prescribed but some kind of treatment.

Incidentally for the sane members of our community I noted Dan Rivers report earlier this evening from CNN London on the spending cuts, sane, relevant and interesting.

Dan Rivers might feel more at home in London. People who more-or-less speak the lingo, similar Anglo-Saxon background, jokes can be told without the need to explain. In the boondocks Dan may have been somewhat lost, very much dependent on local people with local background. Would explain some of his more controversial comments. If memory serves me right he even apologised for some. He seems a good man, but with limitations, like most of us

[scorecard]

And that moment, somewhat embarrassingly for me, was in April of this year watching that filthy Dan Rivers lie to the world on CNN. Over and over. [/font]

Classic demonstration of how in a few posts the inner self is revealed, in this instance (in the way he describes a reporter with whom he didn't agree) clearly demented.What this fellow needs is not more relevant reading as I earlier prescribed but some kind of treatment.

Incidentally for the sane members of our community I noted Dan Rivers report earlier this evening from CNN London on the spending cuts, sane, relevant and interesting.

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers - dan the man - who appeared from nowhere, and in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minutes after the bloodless coup of September 2006, sprouted pure bullshit (which was factually and logically incorrect), about why / who / when / how, the coup happened. All on CNN International (the mother of all instant and unverified news channels).

Both rivers and CNN have zero credibility, also BBC world, any more. All of these outlets have embraced instant journalism with just one aim - must be first to get something on screen about an inter4national event, with no regard as to whether what is said /shown is correct or otherwise.

Edited October 20, 2010 by scorecard

[kropotkin]

Please please - do not get all worked up about this red and yellow thing.

After all, it is only the new elite ( bourgeois nouveaux riches) fighting the old elite (aristocrats, old money) - both of course using the uneducated poor to do the fighting for them.

Nothing new really - it happened before - in Europe - in the 18th / 19th century.

Just sit back , relax and watch the show .

Someday we might see thailand reach the year 1789 - but do not hold your breath.

[SergeiY]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

[Buchholz]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

Far fewer do now that he is back where he belongs and where he is more comfortable which helps him immensely to have a clue about what he is talking about.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Buchholz

[kropotkin]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

If i understand correctly, this Dan person works for CNN?

CNN are the ones that replaced 'the news' by 'the news show' ?

Or do i confuse them with Foxy Palin News?

well, who cares? i second that.

Meanwhile, in the real world, thai people are suffering, and some think Thaksin, or Suthep, or whoever will help them. Thai people have a long way to go ...........

[jayboy]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

Far fewer do now that he is back where he belongs and where he is more comfortable which helps him immensely to have a clue about what he is talking about.

Dan Rivers, an Australian, was based in Bangkok for many years and has only recently been working out of London.It therefore seems likely that his understanding of Thailand is more extensive unless one is of the view that this country is so complex, i.e so socially,historically, culturally as well as linguistically separate that only Thais can truly comprehend it (as well as the few semi educated saloon bar experts on this forum).It's a common position usually invoked by amart apologists for authoritarianism and repression.However it doesn't actually make any sense as would be attested by the many foreign Thai experts from Cornell University over many years - who collectively know and understand Thailand better than most Thais.

[Siam Simon]

And that moment, somewhat embarrassingly for me, was in April of this year watching that filthy Dan Rivers lie to the world on CNN. Over and over. [/font]

Classic demonstration of how in a few posts the inner self is revealed, in this instance (in the way he describes a reporter with whom he didn't agree) clearly demented.What this fellow needs is not more relevant reading as I earlier prescribed but some kind of treatment.

Incidentally for the sane members of our community I noted Dan Rivers report earlier this evening from CNN London on the spending cuts, sane, relevant and interesting.

Scoots is surely doing a running p1sstake of the more extreme forum Demo apologists ?

[SergeiY]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

Far fewer do now that he is back where he belongs and where he is more comfortable which helps him immensely to have a clue about what he is talking about.

Well, i don't care what you think about 'scorecard'. Just read his post and you will know that dude cannot be taken for serious.

[Pi Sek]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

Far fewer do now that he is back where he belongs and where he is more comfortable which helps him immensely to have a clue about what he is talking about.

Dan Rivers, an Australian, was based in Bangkok for many years and has only recently been working out of London.It therefore seems likely that his understanding of Thailand is more extensive unless one is of the view that this country is so complex, i.e so socially,historically, culturally as well as linguistically separate that only Thais can truly comprehend it (as well as the few semi educated saloon bar experts on this forum).It's a common position usually invoked by amart apologists for authoritarianism and repression.However it doesn't actually make any sense as would be attested by the many foreign Thai experts from Cornell University over many years - who collectively know and understand Thailand better than most Thais.

No, his understanding of Thailand is extensively pitiful. It is no coincidence that his name came up time and time again as the least accurate foreign correspondent during the April-May crisis, and I imagine it is no coincidence that he was "transferred" to London shortly after being called in to Abhisit's office with a US Senator the day after his armed-MiB footage was "leaked" to the public!

Anyone see this one?

Edited October 21, 2010 by Pi Sek

[rubl]

Rightly or wrongly, I have no respect whatever for dan rivers, (dan the man - who appeared from nowhere and, in front of a Thai military tank, 5 minites after the bloodless coup of September 2006, said on CNN International (the mother of all instant and not verified TV channels) 'the king has authorized a coup', so why would anybody listen to /believe what this man / or what any CNN outlet says?

well, who cares?

Far fewer do now that he is back where he belongs and where he is more comfortable which helps him immensely to have a clue about what he is talking about.

Dan Rivers, an Australian, was based in Bangkok for many years and has only recently been working out of London.It therefore seems likely that his understanding of Thailand is more extensive unless one is of the view that this country is so complex, i.e so socially,historically, culturally as well as linguistically separate that only Thais can truly comprehend it (as well as the few semi educated saloon bar experts on this forum).It's a common position usually invoked by amart apologists for authoritarianism and repression.However it doesn't actually make any sense as would be attested by the many foreign Thai experts from Cornell University over many years - who collectively know and understand Thailand better than most Thais.

If you're addressing 'semi-educated saloon bar experts' you should use words of two syllables at the most. Even for the others 'statements' of a semi absolute nature (and no proof) may be difficult to stomach

[Buchholz]

This and your subsequent comments suggest, along with your bar room style of discussion ...

TheyCallmeScooter, if this is your first bit of communication with jayboy you'll soon realise he is quick to draw parallels to the bar scene with any argument which contrasts with his own. I presume the intent is to try and intimidate people by giving the perception of dealing with an intellectual superpower standing head and shoulders above the lay Thaivisa forum dweller.

I see what you mean.

(as well as the few semi educated saloon bar experts on this forum).

quote Insight:

Take it with as much salt as it deserved

unquote.

Will do.

[Huey]

If he dose come back, there will no doubt be a selfless patriot that will sacrifice himself for the good of the Kingdom.

[rubl]

quote Insight:

Take it with as much salt as it deserved

unquote.

Will do.

Won't do, bad for blood pressure. My doctor is against it !

Edited October 21, 2010 by rubl

[jayboy]

No, his understanding of Thailand is extensively pitiful. It is no coincidence that his name came up time and time again as the least accurate foreign correspondent during the April-May crisis, and I imagine it is no coincidence that he was "transferred" to London shortly after being called in to Abhisit's office with a US Senator the day after his armed-MiB footage was "leaked" to the public!

It wasn't perfect( is it ever?) but it was not as poor as you make out.Anyway only the naive rely on one news source.Most of the rage against CNN, eg that crazy Thai gal's barely literate but much praised letter, was because it dared touch on some painful home truths.

[Buchholz]

Excerpt from:

Thaksin tries to upstage PM on flood relief

The Nation - October 21, 2010

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/10/21/politics/Thaksin-tries-to-upstage-PM-on-flood-relief-30140555.html

Thaksin's Twitter message was sent in the wake of Wednesday's night phone-in at a dinner party held by Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung. Some 60 opposition lawmakers were present, including Somchai and his wife Yaowapha.

Chalerm billed his party as the inauguration of the Thaksin clique within the main opposition party.

By forming the clique, Chalerm vowed to bring about Thaksin's return to Thailand if Pheu Thai leads the next coalition.

"I am now setting up Thaksin clique for you because I am your man and at the upcoming general election you have to step out to openly help campaigning hard for victory," he said to Thaksin during the phone-in.

[rubl]

"I am now setting up Thaksin clique for you because I am your man and at the upcoming general election you have to step out to openly help campaigning hard for victory," he said to Thaksin during the phone-in.

When k. Chalerm says this, does that mean he's for or against k. Thaksin ? Somehow I think it could go both ways, depending on how cynical you want to be

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Anyone see this one?

lol surprisingly well done. A lot done with very little. bravo to Can Rivurs reporting for DNN. His best line is "I definitely smell smoke. Smells like military smoke."

"I am now setting up Thaksin clique for you because I am your man and at the upcoming general election you have to step out to openly help campaigning hard for victory," he said to Thaksin during the phone-in.

When k. Chalerm says this, does that mean he's for or against k. Thaksin ? Somehow I think it could go both ways, depending on how cynical you want to be

Voranai Vanijaka's column in The Bangkok Post is really quite brilliant. His Op-Eds are consistently exceptional quality. He's the foil to Pravit's nauseating The Nation-sponsored smut.

But anyway, his column on this subject was exceptional imo...

http://www.bangkokpo...dy-s-best-buddy

Lunching on Tuesday in the Post boardroom, it became apparent to me why Mr Chalerm succeeds time and time again, despite his notorious reputation. There are of course many reasons, one of which is no matter what he's done and no matter what he stands for, people still like him - in the same way that people like New York crime boss John Gotti: He's got personality.He had all the reporters and editors laughing for two hours. He was charming, he was personable, he was funny and he told great stories.

Mr Chalerm's aim was to dazzle and impress. After all, he came to the Post Building to sell a product _ which was himself with the label of ''king-maker'' stamped on his forehead.

It's no secret that there's a power struggle within the Puea Thai party, but Mr Chalerm is a man with a plan. He just has to sell the plan to the heavyweights within the Puea Thai Party and, most importantly, to Thaksin Shinawatra.

But first, let see if he can sell it to journalists - a product needs publicity after all.

Within the Puea Thai Party are factions. Jatuporn Prompan's red faction. The Isan gang, Payap Shinawatra and Pongsak Rattapongpaisal. Mr Chalerm's own faction. Mingkwan Sangsuwan's faction and others. Then there's the 111 banned politicians of the former Thai Rak Thai party.

According to reports, certain factions want Thaksin to step back, to perhaps fade away, if only for the time being. But Mr Chalerm's point is this: Why? It's Thaksin's money. It's Thaksin's party. It's Thaksin's building everyone is working out of. This entire system belongs to Thaksin. So why step back? Why fade away? It's Thaksin's money that is feeding everyone.

Who? Who is the leader of Puea Thai? Who do you think the people are going to vote for? Yongyuth Vichaidit? Mingkwan Sangsuwan? There's no one. There's only Thaksin. People love Thaksin.

When? There's still time, but things have to start moving. Earlier the word was that the Democrats will get banned. They won't. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva is the luckiest man alive. Given all the unrest, any government in such a position would have been long gone. But not Mr Abhisit. Not the Democrats. They are ''carried''. The ''man in charge'' makes sure of it. So Puea Thai has 15 months.

The Democrat Party will see out its term. But if the Democrats win the next election, they will have four more years. People may forget Thaksin by then. It comes down to the next election.

How? Thaksin. He's the product. He's the brand. Mr Chalerm, in his own words, is the salesman. It's simple, the people love Thaksin. Mr Chalerm can sell a steak to a vegetarian. Let Mr Chalerm sell Thaksin. Mr Chalerm will fly to meet Thaksin and sell him this vision.

Wouldn't that cause more trouble? No. According to the plan, they won't hide it. They will show Thaksin. Vote Puea Thai, our mission is to bring back Thaksin. Clear him of charges. Return power to him. The people have to accept. If Puea Thai sells Thaksin, and the people vote for Thaksin, and Puea Thai wins, then that's democracy. The majority will have spoken.

Wouldn't that cause more trouble? No. The military? We can always negotiate. We are negotiating right now. Everything can be negotiated. Sondhi Limtongkul? He won't last much longer. He's out of money. If you don't have money, you can't do anything.

Mr Chalerm said, ''Sondhi has a hundred, but he spends a hundred thousand. Sondhi treats money as his servant. Thaksin treats money as his master.'' So Thaksin always has money.

Will other people go along? Sure. According to Mr Chalerm, even those reputed to be his political enemies are, in fact, his buddies.

Mr Sondhi? ''Longtime buddies. We go way back.''

Army Chief Prayuth Chan-ocha? ''Longtime buddies. We go way back.''

Former army chief Anupong Paojinda? ''Longtime buddies. We go way back.''

Mingkwan Sangsuwan? ''Longtime buddies. We go way back.'' And there are a host of other longtime buddies that go way back with Mr Chalerm.

Given all the reports of rifts and conflict, will coalition partners (namely the Bhumjaithai Party) abandon the Democrats? No. The budget bill may have been passed. But actual cold hard cash isn't in the hands of the ministers and deputies yet. Which means money isn't in their pockets yet, hasn't been distributed among party members and executives yet, and hasn't been handed out to all the partners and lackeys yet. So Bhumjaithai may huff, and Newin Chidchob may puff, but without cash in hand, no one will budge. And the budget comes in installments, so the Democrats are still sitting pretty.

The secret, according to Mr Chalerm, is this _ you have got to have money. Thaksin has money. A party leader has to be able to give party members ''presents'' at least every three months. Otherwise you're no leader. Only the Democrats can have a poor man as the leader (a shot at former prime minister Chuan Leekpai). No one else can. You've got to have money and you've got to spread it around. Money wins loyalties, money wins elections.

So, there you have it. The vision of Mr Chalerm. The Thaksin Plan is the only way. Otherwise the Democrats will be in power for four more years and it's over for Puea Thai. The product, the brand is Thaksin.

But of course, if Thaksin and the Puea Thai Party buy the plan, then Mr Chalerm, with his network of buddies everywhere, is the sales director. He will have positioned himself as the most powerful man in Puea Thai, next to Thaksin Shinawatra.

To be the king-maker _ the Suthep Thaugsuban, the Newin Chidchob, the Sanoh Thienthong, the Sanan Kachornprasart of the world _ sometimes that's better than being the PM.

[sevenhills]

I realise that i know nothing.

Therefore, i know more then most other people.

Ha Ha. But, if I agreed with you, we would both be wrong.