After 15 Years In Thailand And Going Back To The Us

[JSixpack]

Let me guess: your favorite movies are Dances With Wolves and Avatar.

[MJP]

Chalk and cheese really. I think we're expecting a bit too much of old Thailand, it's got a long way to develop yet.

Actually not...I expect very little here...and that was OK when it was cheap...now that prices are WAY up, I do expect value for money...and you don't get it here in central BKK...

That's a fair comment. However, as has already been said it's not the Thai's fault Western fiat currency is failing due to the inactions of government financial watchdogs and regulators over the past decade and now the action (for want of a better word) of Western central banks.

Also consider that most commodities have an international price and that includes consumer goods. Also consider the tax structure here geared towards taxation of luxury imports as part of their protectionism and sufficiency economy model of domestic production for domestic consumption.

[spidermike007]

Great thread. Yes, I go back and forth, and the US feels very tired these days. I think there is no doubt that it is a bit like being in Rome, in the 4th century AD. The waning years of the empire. It has been 30-40 years since any real money has been spent on infrastructure, and it is showing. The place is getting a decrepit, third world quality. There is not a single mall in the US that rivals Siam Paragon. There is not a single cinema in the country that rivals the Siam Cinema. There is not a single bowling alley that rivals the bowling alley in Siam. No speed trains, deteriorating highways, a nearly completely dysfunctional government, broke municipalities, etc. But the real story is in the people. Partly due to being fed the line that we are the greatest, the most prosperous, the most influential, etc. for all of our lives, the current reality is something most people are having a hard time coming to grips with. It is creating alot of sadness, lost hope, desperation, and frustration. The average American right now is a sad, sad sight to witness. When I was back there 6 weeks ago, it was palpable. The fear, anxiety, and general lack of fulfillment back there is tangible.

[rucus7]

Probably the biggest thing that is different in Thailand than in the US is that when highschool starts, you won't have to worry about "Leroy bringin' a gat to school to bust some caps in yo' dome..."

Tell me you are not suggesting tampering with Leroy's 2nd amendment rights . . . . .

[mistakurtz]

"In thailand you get a bbq grill go down to lotus and invest in your nights business of selling charbroiled chicken, and you are in business as soon as you find a good street corner - free enterprise? America is just an illusion."

Try cooking on a thai street corner without a workpermit and the right visa and the police payoffs, and you'll find yourself out on your ass.

[Ulysses G.]

Not to mention that there will be 20 other "chicken grillers" on your corner and you will not make enough to do more than barely survive.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[quandow]

How many people do you see fighting to get OUT of the U.S. of A.?

[happyrobert]

Yeah, I agree, the USA is a great place to shop!

Yes, for a plane ticket to Thailand!

[happyrobert]

And as for the mentionings of "third world" countries by a few posters-

National Debt per Capita:

U.S. ....... $40,000

Thailand........$900.00

(And for you Irish lads: $448,000!)

This does not include personal debt, which it goes without saying, is substantial in the States and minimal in Thailand.

Who's the third world country now?

[Jingthing]

How many people do you see fighting to get OUT of the U.S. of A.?

It isn't as bad as North Korea so I suppose that's a feature.

[MJP]

And as for the mentionings of "third world" countries by a few posters-

National Debt per Capita:

U.S. ....... $40,000

Thailand........$900.00

(And for you Irish lads: $448,000!)

This does not include personal debt, which it goes without saying, is substantial in the States and minimal in Thailand.

Who's the third world country now?

That's a shocker. Would you be so kind as to provide a link. Would love to see UK debt.

[mca]

And as for the mentionings of "third world" countries by a few posters-

National Debt per Capita:

U.S. ....... $40,000

Thailand........$900.00

(And for you Irish lads: $448,000!)

This does not include personal debt, which it goes without saying, is substantial in the States and minimal in Thailand.

Who's the third world country now?

They used an Irish calculator.

[happyrobert]

And as for the mentionings of "third world" countries by a few posters-

National Debt per Capita:

U.S. ....... $40,000

Thailand........$900.00

(And for you Irish lads: $448,000!)

This does not include personal debt, which it goes without saying, is substantial in the States and minimal in Thailand.

Who's the third world country now?

That's a shocker. Would you be so kind as to provide a link. Would love to see UK debt.

That's from memory as I find such info fascinating. Probably the most reliable link is from the CIA (yikes!) that covers all countries in many categories that you should find fascinating, but there are many others and there is a little bit of variance. Not surprising since 72.62534% of statistics are wrong https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/us.html

[islandguy]

Still happier here than I think I would be in America, but:

Shopping for wine and clothes so much better in California

Driving so much safer and more relaxing in Hawaii

And two words, even for those who don't consider themselves 'handy' with tools and repairs - hardware stores! The wonder, the wonder..............

interesting that so many people mention Honolulu and San Diego (OP brought up Houston)

and the best laugh;

-Fedex actually works there. :lol::lol:

Thanks for the thread.

[Suradit]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free.

Good, free education is available in the US, at least through secondary school, but only if you choose the "right place" to live and for many people that choice is not open to them for economic or other reasons. At the tertiary level it's horrendously expensive, leaving students and parents in debt for years if they can manage it at all.

Comparative results in science and mathematics for students in the US is deplorable at all levels continuing on up to graduate degrees. Virtually all doctorates in these areas are awarded to foreign students, the majority of whom are Asian and who will go back to Asia with that acquired knowledge in part because of the insane xenophobic immigration practices.

The United States received a stark wake-up call this week with the release of international test results showing students in other countries are surpassing American students when it comes to math, science and reading. China and Australia outperformed the U.S. in each of the three subject areas tested.

"The United States came in 23rd or 24th in most subjects. We can quibble, or we can face the brutal truth that we're being out-educated," said U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan.

http://www.pbs.org/n...tion_12-10.html

The United States has become more dependent on foreigners for its most-educated positions in science and engineering. Between 1990 and 2000, the proportion of foreign-born people with Ph.D.s in the science and engineering labor force rose from 24 percent to 38 percent, according to the NSF. However, the pipeline of foreign talent has been shrinking. The U.S. State Department issued 20 percent fewer visas for foreign students in 2001 than in 2000, and the rate fell further between 2001 and 2002, according to the National Science Board

Read more: http://news.cnet.com...l#ixzz1AWCO4vqf

In too many areas the US is becoming too complacent. What made America great at one time was obtained through hard work. Now people just assume they are entitled to the good life without lifting a finger.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Suradit

[utapaortnab]

I totally agree with my houston friend. I have lived full time in Thailand for many years now and when not living there full time divided my time between the U.S. and Thailand. I just returned to Oceanside Ca and was shocked at the price of everything here now. And as I usually went to and enjoyed the movies all around Bangkok daily, I have had to cut my movie going to 2/week here and every theator I've been in has been smelly, nasty inside and I've spent more for my popcorn and snacks even though the ticket prices have averaged $9 and that's for the Senior discount.

Grocery prices have doubled since I was last in the U.S. in 2005 and don't even talk about gas prices, utility costs, taxes, and really stupid laws. While illegal immigrants rights are very protected, those who have lived 74+ years life as an American citizen are subjected to laws, policies and rules that mave nothing to do with common sense or reason.

I also agree with America having become far behind Thailand in technology, and I'd add that the politicians and "good old boys" are ALL self serving incompitants who have no desire to represent their constituants.

And don't even try to get a real live person on the phone at any government entity, or utility companhy (unless you speak Spanish).

I hadn't been back a week when I started questioning my decision making abilities and sanity.

The only plus is being close to my 4 kids, 2 grandkids, great grandson and many friends from all over the U.S. who all have been so supportive of my return.

Ken Bower

Veteran Human Being

[tjrd12]

I totally agree with my houston friend. I have lived full time in Thailand for many years now and when not living there full time divided my time between the U.S. and Thailand. I just returned to Oceanside Ca and was shocked at the price of everything here now. And as I usually went to and enjoyed the movies all around Bangkok daily, I have had to cut my movie going to 2/week here and every theator I've been in has been smelly, nasty inside and I've spent more for my popcorn and snacks even though the ticket prices have averaged $9 and that's for the Senior discount.

Grocery prices have doubled since I was last in the U.S. in 2005 and don't even talk about gas prices, utility costs, taxes, and really stupid laws. While illegal immigrants rights are very protected, those who have lived 74+ years life as an American citizen are subjected to laws, policies and rules that mave nothing to do with common sense or reason.

I also agree with America having become far behind Thailand in technology, and I'd add that the politicians and "good old boys" are ALL self serving incompitants who have no desire to represent their constituants.

And don't even try to get a real live person on the phone at any government entity, or utility companhy (unless you speak Spanish).

I hadn't been back a week when I started questioning my decision making abilities and sanity.

The only plus is being close to my 4 kids, 2 grandkids, great grandson and many friends from all over the U.S. who all have been so supportive of my return.

Ken Bower

Veteran Human Being

Ken,

I think it really depends on where you live in the US...TX has a lower unemployment rate then most of the US, and contrary to what Krugman troweled out yesterday, is pretty healthy economically. My friends that live in CA, NV, AZ, and FL tell very different stories...it seems the regional difference are more and more pronounced...When I look at the US I tend to throw out the coasts as they are FAR more inflated then most of the country..

Gas is cheaper in many parts of the US then it is here...38 baht a liter for Benzene now in BKK...that is over 4 USD a gallon...

Movie prices are inching up here as well..not that there is much to see in Tland anymore as WAY fewer western films get released...11 yrs ago when I moved I would normally see two movies a week...now it is far less then two a month...

Edited January 9, 2011 by tjrd12

[dancw3]

Many have noticed before that much of America has a third world feeling these days. That's not entirely uninteresting though, depending on your point of view.

I disagree about the Thai food. I've been visiting Thailand 3 or 4 times a year for the last 5 years, and recently moved here. I find the Thai food in Thailand so much better than that in the USA, that I stopped eating in Thai restaurants in the USA.

[Ulysses G.]

I also agree with America having become far behind Thailand in technology...

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs must be quaking in their boots.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[IanForbes]

Ken,

I think it really depends on where you live in the US...TX has a lower unemployment rate then most of the US, and contrary to what Krugman troweled out yesterday, is pretty healthy economically. My friends that live in CA, NV, AZ, and FL tell very different stories...it seems the regional difference are more and more pronounced...When I look at the US I tend to throw out the coasts as they are FAR more inflated then most of the country..

Gas is cheaper in many parts of the US then it is here...38 baht a liter for Benzene now in BKK...that is over 4 USD a gallon...

Movie prices are inching up here as well..not that there is much to see in Tland anymore as WAY fewer western films get released...11 yrs ago when I moved I would normally see two movies a week...now it is far less then two a month...

Good post. I agree. Many here are trying to compare apples to oranges while others do seem to get it. There are plusses and minuses on both ledgers.

We went out for a fabulous buffet lunch today at a Japanese oriented dining room in a 4 star hotel in Chiang Mai. The food was excellent and cost each of us under 400 baht. A similar buffet in most North American cities would be considerably more. But, if you eat at MacDonalds in Thailand it isn't a lot cheaper than anywhere in the USA. However, there aren't any places in North America that you could buy a great meal (Kow Padt Gai) for less than a dollar.. 25 baht.

Vehicle fuel is similar in price, but wages are much lower in Thailand. That is why Thai locals earning an average of 200 baht a day are struggling. I speak to the tuk tuk drivers and most of them are having a hard time. If the local police don't use bribery as a form of supplementing their salary they can hardly get by. Anything electronic or imported usually costs 20% more than North America. You can buy a beater car for $500 in Canada or the USA, but pay double or triple that in Thailand. However, a Thai mechanic will work all day putting an old beater back into operation for about what it costs to change a tire in Canada.

I"m not saying anything that most everyone here doesn't already know, but you just have to adjust your lifestyle accordingly.

I have the best of both worlds and enjoy spending half my time in Thailand and the other half in Canada. I spend about an equal amount of money in both countries and enjoy the best of both worlds. I'm not sure what I"ll do when I can't live this life style any more. I guess I'll sit in a rocking chair in Canada and tell tall tales to my grandchildren. And, I'll have just enough photographs to make them believe that half of what gramps said might be true.

Edited January 9, 2011 by IanForbes

[MJP]

Ken,

I think it really depends on where you live in the US...TX has a lower unemployment rate then most of the US, and contrary to what Krugman troweled out yesterday, is pretty healthy economically. My friends that live in CA, NV, AZ, and FL tell very different stories...it seems the regional difference are more and more pronounced...When I look at the US I tend to throw out the coasts as they are FAR more inflated then most of the country..

Gas is cheaper in many parts of the US then it is here...38 baht a liter for Benzene now in BKK...that is over 4 USD a gallon...

Movie prices are inching up here as well..not that there is much to see in Tland anymore as WAY fewer western films get released...11 yrs ago when I moved I would normally see two movies a week...now it is far less then two a month...

Good post. I agree. Many here are trying to compare apples to oranges while others do seem to get it. There are plusses and minuses on both ledgers.

We went out for a fabulous buffet lunch today at a Japanese oriented dining room in a 4 star hotel in Chiang Mai. The food was excellent and cost each of us under 400 baht. A similar buffet in most North American cities would be considerably more. But, if you eat at MacDonalds in Thailand it isn't a lot cheaper than anywhere in the USA. However, there aren't any places in North America that you could buy a great meal (Kow Padt Gai) for less than a dollar.. 25 baht.

Vehicle fuel is similar in price, but wages are much lower in Thailand. That is why Thai locals earning an average of 200 baht a day are struggling. I speak to the tuk tuk drivers and most of them are having a hard time. If the local police don't use bribery as a form of supplementing their salary they can hardly get by. Anything electronic or imported usually costs 20% more than North America. You can buy a beater car for $500 in Canada or the USA, but pay double or triple that in Thailand. However, a Thai mechanic will work all day putting an old beater back into operation for about what it costs to change a tire in Canada.

I"m not saying anything that most everyone here doesn't already know, but you just have to adjust your lifestyle accordingly.

I have the best of both worlds and enjoy spending half my time in Thailand and the other half in Canada. I spend about an equal amount of money in both countries and enjoy the best of both worlds. I'm not sure what I"ll do when I can't live this life style any more. I guess I'll sit in a rocking chair in Canada and tell tall tales to my grandchildren. And, I'll have just enough photographs to make them believe that half of what gramps said might be true.

Yes, apples with oranges.

For a fair assessment we must really compare living standards like for like, income for income. A Thai chap making 200 Baht a day, well, it costs 100 Baht to fill up the scooter. Completely different world, although I do accept that in some parts of the US property/state/federal taxes are now creating serious poverty for many on fixed income.

However, for those expats already established here in Thailand this is a very cheap port in an economic storm.

Please don't frighten the children, Ian.

[Neurath]

Agree 100% with this assessment. Not just in the States but throughout the west in general. Starting up a company is an increasingly more and more expensive endeavor. I once worked for a small startup in Massachusetts. There were only 3 of us but the first year cost for our corporate attorney's to 'structure' the company (I dont even know what that means) was $200,000. Red tape and regulation is strangling legitimate business in the west. Everyone credits low labor costs as the primary reason companies relocate to the East but I'm willing to bet the regulatory environment is just as important a factor in the decision making.

It means that someone did something to you and you paid them $200,000 even though you have no idea what it is they did. Bad juju, business or otherwise. Red tap? Maybe. But, sure sounds like a marriage

[KRS1]

Probably the biggest thing that is different in Thailand than in the US is that when highschool starts, you won't have to worry about "Leroy bringin' a gat to school to bust some caps in yo' dome..."

Tell me you are not suggesting tampering with Leroy's 2nd amendment rights . . . . .

No sir not here, first thing i did when i got back was go to the gun show ! (really)

[KRS1]

"In thailand you get a bbq grill go down to lotus and invest in your nights business of selling charbroiled chicken, and you are in business as soon as you find a good street corner - free enterprise? America is just an illusion."

Try cooking on a thai street corner without a workpermit and the right visa and the police payoffs, and you'll find yourself out on your ass.

Actually the way it works is, once the city sees you setting up shop then you pay about 30-50 baht per day. I use to think police payoffs were rampant also....But after 15 years in LOS, now I know it was just a myth for the most part unless its a club or something like that.

May the best grilled chicken win, only the best will survive the way it should be.

Edited January 9, 2011 by KRS1

[craigt3365]

Great thread. Yes, I go back and forth, and the US feels very tired these days. I think there is no doubt that it is a bit like being in Rome, in the 4th century AD. The waning years of the empire. It has been 30-40 years since any real money has been spent on infrastructure, and it is showing. The place is getting a decrepit, third world quality. There is not a single mall in the US that rivals Siam Paragon. There is not a single cinema in the country that rivals the Siam Cinema. There is not a single bowling alley that rivals the bowling alley in Siam. No speed trains, deteriorating highways, a nearly completely dysfunctional government, broke municipalities, etc. But the real story is in the people. Partly due to being fed the line that we are the greatest, the most prosperous, the most influential, etc. for all of our lives, the current reality is something most people are having a hard time coming to grips with. It is creating alot of sadness, lost hope, desperation, and frustration. The average American right now is a sad, sad sight to witness. When I was back there 6 weeks ago, it was palpable. The fear, anxiety, and general lack of fulfillment back there is tangible.

It all depends on where you are. The US is a huge country with great differences depending on where you are. Philadelphia can't be compared to San Diego, for example.

I'm in Vegas now and the infrastructure is great. New construction on I-15, new construction even on the small highway out to where my Mom lives. The roads around here and on my recent trip to California have been excellent.

As for malls, quite a few here in Vegas that are top notch. Sure, Paragon is awesome, but there are a few here that are about the same. With much better shopping opportunities...and much cheaper prices. Anchor stores at The Fashion Show are Saks Fifth Avenue, Macy's, Nordstroms, Neiman Marcus, Dillards, and Bloomingdales. Along with 250 other specialty stores. Fantastic mall, great parking, easy access. We had a great sushi lunch there for about 1,200 Baht. Fantastic creations, great sushi, and just a bit more than what we pay in LOS.

As for cinemas, several new ones have been built here that are just as nice as in Thailand. Though the prices are quite a bit more.

As for governments, many countries around the world are experiencing problems...it's not just the US.

As for the population being depressed...sure, some are...but the malls were PACKED around Xmas. People had bags in their hands and business was brisk. Maybe it's different here in Vegas, but even with the recession...which ended some time ago...things are starting to look up. The current consensus of economists is for decent growth the next few years...but unemployment is still a problem. Even my friends in hard hit Bakersfield are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel and biz is starting to pickup.

I'm not sure where you visited in the US, but it wasn't the places I visited.

I also agree with America having become far behind Thailand in technology...

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs must be quaking in their boots.

For sure. I'm amazed at what is available here that isn't back in Thailand. The technology is so far advanced here, it's unreal. I was at a friends house yesterday, it is about 5 years old. It is completely wired for home networking, including a central wiring panel and home automation station. Stereo and network cables to every room, even a special cutout for your wifi box. And this house sold for $200,000.

Of course my favorite shopping experience is Fry's Electronics. Too bad we don't have them in Thailand. The electronics they have there is amazing.

We came here with 5 empty suitcases and are headed back with them full of stuff that is either hard to get in Thailand or very expensive. That includes a few bottles of great California wine!

[bonobo]

Many have noticed before that much of America has a third world feeling these days. That's not entirely uninteresting though, depending on your point of view.

I disagree about the Thai food. I've been visiting Thailand 3 or 4 times a year for the last 5 years, and recently moved here. I find the Thai food in Thailand so much better than that in the USA, that I stopped eating in Thai restaurants in the USA.

THat's the truth. I never eat Thai food in the USA now. Indian and Chinese food, on the other hand, tends to be much better in the US than in their home countries.

[IanForbes]

Please don't frighten the children, Ian.

Well I do a pretty good job of that sometimes...

:lol:

[dave_boo]

Many have noticed before that much of America has a third world feeling these days. That's not entirely uninteresting though, depending on your point of view.

I disagree about the Thai food. I've been visiting Thailand 3 or 4 times a year for the last 5 years, and recently moved here. I find the Thai food in Thailand so much better than that in the USA, that I stopped eating in Thai restaurants in the USA.

THat's the truth. I never eat Thai food in the USA now. Indian and Chinese food, on the other hand, tends to be much better in the US than in their home countries.

And how often do you eat American 'food' in Thailand....?

[craigt3365]

And how often do you eat American 'food' in Thailand....?

Not trying to be a smart a**, but what do you consider to be American food? I know about the American breakfast, and turkey dinners for Thanksgiving...but other than that, many foods eaten by Americans have origins in other countries. McDonald's is American for sure, but it is just fast food burgers and fries. I love burgers, but only when I do them at home and my own way! And of course burgers and hot dogs were not invented by Americans.

:jap:

[mommysboy]

It's sad sign of the times: Thailand comparing favourably with US.

I think it's a case of where you are from, and what your financial situation is:

What is drawing me back to the UK is the fact that there is a strong welfare system and good infrastructure ( the fact that the weather stinks and I won't get near to a women is not so good at all, but hey I made be able to escape once in a while).

What I am sure of: Thailand is not a good future option if you are anything other than well off!.

My commiserations to US friends, I can't believe how bad its health care and unemployment system is.