Land Of Smiles? Have I Landed In The Wrong Country?

[deejah]

The two countries I know the best are Thailand and the US. And while what I am writing next is a vast generalization, I do think it represents some valid observations in where people in both countries are among the most extreme in the world.

In the US, strangers will open a conversation with anyone, at the grocery check out line, at the bank, at the beach, etc (the exception being in elevators and the subway). They will thank you for holding open a door or wave to you after you let them merge in front of you while driving. Especially with the opening conversations with strangers, I see this more than anywhere else in the world.

In Thailand, you don't often get thanked for opening the door, and almost never get thanked for letting someone merge, but you get the beaming smile when you catch someone's eyes. In NYC for example, rarely do you catch someone's eyes while walking on the sidewalk. But in Thailand, someone will look up, see you, and break out into a smile and perhaps a small nod of the head as they walk on by. Or at a 7-11, not only will our clerk smile, but the others in back of the counter will turn to you and smile before getting back to whatever they were doing.

I am not sure if Thais smile less than they used to do, but compared to most countries, Thailand is the land of smiles, in my opinion.

thoroughly enjoyed reading this post :jap:

(an ex new yorker? subway thing kind of gives it away)

[salty]

Suprised none of the Thai apologists have jumped in and said "if you don't like it leave"....

Give them time.

[thedistillers]

It's just a slogan. To me it just means that smiling is part of the culture. And it is, regardless of how prevalent it is in any given city.

Not sure to understand why people care whether other people smile or not. If I would go in a 5 stars hotel for example, I sure would expect smiles, but underpaid waitresses and shop girls? Who cares?

[mark45y]

To me the whole thing is like a breath of fresh air. I have lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya and I don't live in any of those places now. But I do get smiles everywhere.

I am an old guy but I walk taller here (a lot of short people you know) and a lot more smiles.

Not only do I get smiles but I get real smiles and hello's and propositions as I walk down the street. Where are you going the fruit seller asks, she is ancient, “I'm going to lunch.” “I'll go with you.” Big smile. The motorcycle taxi driver catches my eye from way across the market and smiles and waves, wanting to know if I want a ride. The lady at the butchers remembers I like my chicken cut in half not quarters or eights, big smile. The restaurant waitress remembers I like a coke zero with lunch and serves me automatically, big smile.

The lady at the 7/11 who I always ask if she is still married confides to me, “I'm not married tonight, wink wink big smile.”

I stopped at the flea market today and was looking at some used polo shirts, French and US brand name stuff, real but slightly used. The clerk engaged me in conversation asking why I had no wife with me and no Thai family. She gave me a 5 minute lecture on the values of Thai women, big smile.

Leaving the flea market I had to take a motorcycle taxi to the bus stop. The five guys at the taxi stand pushed the one lady driver forward explaining me me she was not married, not so pretty and old, but a very good lady, big smiles.

These people don't see tourists much. I'm a novelty. Sure they hear the stories about western wealth and that western men like women Thai men don't. I know that is a factor. I don't care.

I'm not a drunk skinhead with tattoos. I wear long pants, shoes and I have never owned a sleeveless shirt with a sports team logo on it.

[StreetCowboy]

To me the whole thing is like a breath of fresh air. I have lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya and I don't live in any of those places now. But I do get smiles everywhere.

I am an old guy but I walk taller here (a lot of short people you know) and a lot more smiles.

Not only do I get smiles but I get real smiles and hello's and propositions as I walk down the street. Where are you going the fruit seller asks, she is ancient, "I'm going to lunch." "I'll go with you." Big smile. The motorcycle taxi driver catches my eye from way across the market and smiles and waves, wanting to know if I want a ride. The lady at the butchers remembers I like my chicken cut in half not quarters or eights, big smile. The restaurant waitress remembers I like a coke zero with lunch and serves me automatically, big smile.

The lady at the 7/11 who I always ask if she is still married confides to me, "I'm not married tonight, wink wink big smile."

I stopped at the flea market today and was looking at some used polo shirts, French and US brand name stuff, real but slightly used. The clerk engaged me in conversation asking why I had no wife with me and no Thai family. She gave me a 5 minute lecture on the values of Thai women, big smile.

Leaving the flea market I had to take a motorcycle taxi to the bus stop. The five guys at the taxi stand pushed the one lady driver forward explaining me me she was not married, not so pretty and old, but a very good lady, big smiles.

These people don't see tourists much. I'm a novelty. Sure they hear the stories about western wealth and that western men like women Thai men don't. I know that is a factor. I don't care.

I'm not a drunk skinhead with tattoos. I wear long pants, shoes and I have never owned a sleeveless shirt with a sports team logo on it.

It was fashionable to tear one arm off the pool team tee-shirts, but then we were "the one-armed bandits".

Some you lose, some they win. and the logo was a hairy arm clutching a half-full pint.

'Is the glass half-full or half-empty?'

"Easily solved. Do you want another?"

Straying back on topic, after Thailand, Taiwan was the place that came closest for proportion of returned smiles, in my limited travels.

SC

[domprz]

Which part of Thailand are you in? Any examples?

I'm in Chiang Mai.

Overall, I see a lot more long faces around than I would have hoped... Waiters / waitresses, shop girls, people on the street. Some people are pleasant but they are definitely in the minority. Many are indifferent at best and some are downright hostile in their attitude. I take it many are sick of foreign tourists... Not too hospitable. The difference between tourist areas and more local thai areas appears to be negligible...

Having moved to Chiang Mai from Pattaya about a month ago I find myself agreeing with this statement 100%. I've also spent time in Ubon - there I'd rate as the friendliest place I've been in Thailand. Indifferent would be the word I'd use to describe Chiang Mai residents I've dealt with. Not unfriendly but not warm either. Very businesslike. I get a few smiles here and there but they are in a small minority. I am still enjoying it here though, but I guess before I moved here I just had higher expectations, thats all.

I've been in Chiang Mai about seven months now, and I've gone through a few stages:

The first was the novelty of people smiling. It seemed that everyone looked me in the eye and smiled. The women particularly seemed to enjoy my admiring glances.

The second was when I stopped believing the sincerity of the smiles. Then it seemed to me that the only people who smiled at me were those who were after my money.

Now I seem to understand which are the commercial vs genuine smiles and I see a lot of them. Perhaps staying here has changed my attitude because even the falangs have started to smile at me now. Strange but true.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I guess Thailand is not for everybody. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Anyway you got quite a few people riled up. Good job.

[Ulysses G.]

Now I seem to understand which are the commercial vs genuine smiles and I see a lot of them.

Maybe that is it. Some of us can tell the difference pretty easily and there are plenty of real smiles in Thailand for those who smile back.

[deejah]

To me the whole thing is like a breath of fresh air. I have lived in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Pattaya and I don't live in any of those places now. But I do get smiles everywhere.

I am an old guy but I walk taller here (a lot of short people you know) and a lot more smiles.

Not only do I get smiles but I get real smiles and hello's and propositions as I walk down the street. Where are you going the fruit seller asks, she is ancient, "I'm going to lunch." "I'll go with you." Big smile. The motorcycle taxi driver catches my eye from way across the market and smiles and waves, wanting to know if I want a ride. The lady at the butchers remembers I like my chicken cut in half not quarters or eights, big smile. The restaurant waitress remembers I like a coke zero with lunch and serves me automatically, big smile.

The lady at the 7/11 who I always ask if she is still married confides to me, "I'm not married tonight, wink wink big smile."

I stopped at the flea market today and was looking at some used polo shirts, French and US brand name stuff, real but slightly used. The clerk engaged me in conversation asking why I had no wife with me and no Thai family. She gave me a 5 minute lecture on the values of Thai women, big smile.

Leaving the flea market I had to take a motorcycle taxi to the bus stop. The five guys at the taxi stand pushed the one lady driver forward explaining me me she was not married, not so pretty and old, but a very good lady, big smiles.

These people don't see tourists much. I'm a novelty. Sure they hear the stories about western wealth and that western men like women Thai men don't. I know that is a factor. I don't care.

I'm not a drunk skinhead with tattoos. I wear long pants, shoes and I have never owned a sleeveless shirt with a sports team logo on it.

lovley post

great quote at the bottom

from a 'wild and crazy guy' too

[greytown]

These people don't see tourists much. I'm a novelty. Sure they hear the stories about western wealth and that western men like women Thai men don't. I know that is a factor. I don't care.

Where are you exactly where they don't see tourists much?

[bermondburi]

I've just read through all of this and I don't think that anybody has made this point ( apologies if someone did ) , but who fuc_king cares if they are smiling or not. Are people that really weak and insecure about themselves that they need to believe that everyone likes them and is friendly towards them. I really couldn't care less if someone smiles at me or not. If I'm happy that is enough for me. If you want to be a miserable fuc_ker then that is up to you.

Having said that I do think that people are friendlier outside of tourist areas than they are in them. The same goes for rural compared to city folk. Rural being friendlier by far. A lot of it depends on where you live. In my experience some of the villages in Isaan are very friendly.

I also think you have to remove the smile thing as an indicator of friendliness seeing how Thais will smile for a lot of different reasons whereas in the West we just don't really do that.

Where I live now it is a fairly friendly area IMO ( Bang Bua Thong in Nonthaburi ), but am I being swamped by smiles every time I walk down the street. No. The reason being that people are busy doing their own shit trying to make living, but stop and have a chat with people while buying goods or services and people are still very friendly. I have two young boys and people are always stopping us to have a chat and play with the " look ferrang ".

Maybe in towns people are a lot busier and don't have so much time but definitely upcountry where the pace of life is slower then people are still smiling. Has there been a change from years ago and now people smile less then before ? Difficult to answer. Are you in the same place in Thailand as you were then and can you remember clearly what people were like ? For my part I don't think there ever was some golden age where the smiles were flowing like water. There have always been scams, good and bad people everywhere blah blah blah.

Maybe it is you who have changed so now you see through the smiles and you are a lot more cynical now than years ago.

I think that there is a tendency for people to rose-tint things and look back to " the good old days ". Come on. Thailand has never been perfect. As we used to say when discussing a problem. " Paradise ain't perfect !! "

[bermondburi]

These people don't see tourists much. I'm a novelty. Sure they hear the stories about western wealth and that western men like women Thai men don't. I know that is a factor. I don't care.

Where are you exactly where they don't see tourists much?

I'm in Bang Bua Thong in Nonthaburi, no tourists here. Most of Thailand is where people don't see tourists and you are a novelty. You should get out more >

[harrry]

Years ago I showed my ex a photo of sydney with people crossing a street at the lights to go to work....not one of them was smiling and she commented why.

Sadly Thailand in the cities is now the same. No time and deadlines to meet.

[greytown]

who fuc_king cares if they are smiling or not. Are people that really weak and insecure about themselves that they need to believe that everyone likes them and is friendly towards them. I really couldn't care less if someone smiles at me or not. If I'm happy that is enough for me. If you want to be a miserable fuc_ker then that is up to you.

Humm, maybe some people prefer to be around nice, pleasant people rather than miserable abrasive ones? Nothing to do with insecurity. If the social climate didn't matter at all then we could all happily live in any miserable Godforsaken shit hole and be quite content...

[bkkdawg]

Not the wrong Country,

You have landed in the wrong Century.

I wouldn't go that far, I'd just say 'the wrong decade'.. and really this only applys to heavily touristed areas, and the bigger cities.

Maybe 'The Land of Faces Like Slapped <deleted>' is more appropriate these days

[bermondburi]

who fuc_king cares if they are smiling or not. Are people that really weak and insecure about themselves that they need to believe that everyone likes them and is friendly towards them. I really couldn't care less if someone smiles at me or not. If I'm happy that is enough for me. If you want to be a miserable fuc_ker then that is up to you.

Humm, maybe some people prefer to be around nice, pleasant people rather than miserable abrasive ones? Nothing to do with insecurity. If the social climate didn't matter at all then we could all happily live in any miserable Godforsaken shit hole and be quite content...

yeah to a point but I'm really not that bothered if people are smiling a lot or not. Especially in Thailand when a smile can mean so many different things. I just get on with my life and whether someone is smiling really doesn;t mean a lot to me. Nice if they are but at the same time I'm not going to be going into counselling if they aren't !!

I like to think I'm a nice guy too !!

[samran]

I read these threads and I wonder what people want...

I mean, they expect to be greeted at the airport with everyone high fiving you as you enter the arrivals hall?

...they expect every conceivable man coming up to you and saying constantly "Hey Mister, Ameliga/Odeliya/Yermanee/Ingland number 1, OK" or if they have even more limited English skills have them saying "Man U no 1! David Beckham top! top!"?

...they expect every little kid rushing up to them with huge white toothed smiles rushing them like a rockstar?

...the expect every pretty Thai girl behind the counter to giggle at them sweetly and innocently and expect ladies to yell out 'handsum man' as they walk down the street?

I think they really expect Thai people to be a caricature of themselves for their own personal entertainment.

F.F.S, people have lives which, golly gosh, pretty much resemble the lives of people back in the place you came from. And all of its associated ups and downs.

Do you really want people to be 'on show' all the time for your personal benefit?

Edited January 13, 2011 by samran

[Ulysses G.]

I read these threads and I wonder what people want...

I mean, they expect to be greeted at the airport with everyone high fiving you as you enter the arrivals hall?

...they expect every conceivable man coming up to you and saying constantly "Hey Mister, Ameliga/Odeliya/Yermanee/Ingland number 1, OK" or if they have even more limited English skills have them saying "Man U no 1! David Beckham top! top!"?

...they expect every little kid rushing up to them with huge white toothed smiles rushing them like a rockstar?

...the expect every pretty Thai girl behind the counter to giggle at them sweetly and innocently and expect ladies to yell out 'handsum man' as they walk down the street?

I think they really expect Thai people to be a caricature of themselves for their own personal entertainment.

These are pretty much the same conclusions that I have been been coming to. Doesn't sound bad though...

[bermondburi]

I read these threads and I wonder what people want...

I mean, they expect to be greeted at the airport with everyone high fiving you as you enter the arrivals hall?

...they expect every conceivable man coming up to you and saying constantly "Hey Mister, Ameliga/Odeliya/Yermanee/Ingland number 1, OK" or if they have even more limited English skills have them saying "Man U no 1! David Beckham top! top!"?

...they expect every little kid rushing up to them with huge white toothed smiles rushing them like a rockstar?

...the expect every pretty Thai girl behind the counter to giggle at them sweetly and innocently and expect ladies to yell out 'handsum man' as they walk down the street?

I think they really expect Thai people to be a caricature of themselves for their own personal entertainment.

F.F.S, people have lives which, golly gosh, pretty much resemble the lives of people back in the place you came from. And all of its associated ups and downs.

Do you really want people to be 'on show' all the time for your personal benefit?

the voice of sanity, that's what I meant but probably couldn't express so well. THANKYOU

[surayu]

the voice of sanity, that's what I meant but probably couldn't express so well. THANKYOU

Right, i am back again, this time to represent the voice of the "insanes" apparently, arr arrrr you might all say "who cares" if they don't smile, "who cares" if they don't do this or that, however, someone, presumably the "insanes" (i am one ), see this as a sign of things going in the wrong direction, you can close yourself in your own world and be happy without "associating" with anyone, refusing any sort of contacts and stick to your more basic needs, but the problem is that this attitude we are receiving, the feeling that there is no need to be kind or show kindness to other, is just the beginning that will lead to an even more selfish and rude society, it doesn't cost much to be at least polite, especially when there is no need to bite the hands that are feeding you, if we don't act somehow to re-establish "good manners", show the value of them (more and more are thinking that they are just a waste of time....)we will soon reach an even worse levels of contact between the parts, were violence might be the response of choice, i give importance to other people feelings and what might be the reason behind their actions, as i say, often there is no real reason behind this bad attitude apart from being ignorant and refusing to see the comsequences of behaving in a bad way, they seems to be worry to appear somehow "weak" in showing love other than hate and not the (bad) superman/woman they want us to believe they are, all the experience accumulated during the years by growing up doesn't seem to bring any benefits to some people....

[greytown]

a sign of things going in the wrong direction, you can close yourself in your own world and be happy without "associating" with anyone, refusing any sort of contacts and stick to your more basic needs, but the problem is that this attitude we are receiving, the feeling that there is no need to be kind or show kindness to other, is just the beginning that will lead to an even more selfish and rude society

Agreed. The kind of cold, selfish, greedy, miserable and soulless attitude that seems has become the norm in the West is apparently at this point a global phenomenon...(?) Is this the kind of society we want to live in?

[greytown]

I mean, they expect to be greeted at the airport with everyone high fiving you as you enter the arrivals hall?

...they expect every conceivable man coming up to you and saying constantly "Hey Mister, Ameliga/Odeliya/Yermanee/Ingland number 1, OK" or if they have even more limited English skills have them saying "Man U no 1! David Beckham top! top!"?

...they expect every little kid rushing up to them with huge white toothed smiles rushing them like a rockstar?

...the expect every pretty Thai girl behind the counter to giggle at them sweetly and innocently and expect ladies to yell out 'handsum man' as they walk down the street?

Piling on the exaggerations aren't we?

[samran]

the voice of sanity, that's what I meant but probably couldn't express so well. THANKYOU

Right, i am back again, this time to represent the voice of the "insanes" apparently, arr arrrr you might all say "who cares" if they don't smile, "who cares" if they don't do this or that, however, someone, presumably the "insanes" (i am one ), see this as a sign of things going in the wrong direction, you can close yourself in your own world and be happy without "associating" with anyone, refusing any sort of contacts and stick to your more basic needs, but the problem is that this attitude we are receiving, the feeling that there is no need to be kind or show kindness to other, is just the beginning that will lead to an even more selfish and rude society, it doesn't cost much to be at least polite, especially when there is no need to bite the hands that are feeding you, if we don't act somehow to re-establish "good manners", show the value of them (more and more are thinking that they are just a waste of time....)we will soon reach an even worse levels of contact between the parts, were violence might be the response of choice, i give importance to other people feelings and what might be the reason behind their actions, as i say, often there is no real reason behind this bad attitude apart from being ignorant and refusing to see the comsequences of behaving in a bad way, they seems to be worry to appear somehow "weak" in showing love other than hate and not the (bad) superman/woman they want us to believe they are, all the experience accumulated during the years by growing up doesn't seem to bring any benefits to some people....

I seriously live in a different Thailand to many people on this forum. The one I live in is nothing like the one you describe.

I would suggest - not going to tourist areas, learn to speak Thai (properly) and frankly, understand that in the culture it is perfectly normal that in certain situations (including shock horror, eating at a restaurant) interactions are often hurried and abrupt. It may be unfriendly, but it is part of living in Asia. It seems insulting, but mostly it is not.

For me, 'real Thai's' are actually initially quite suspicious of people they don't know. But you go back to a place repeatedly, show a bit of loyalty (as long as say you get what you need from that store owner) and even the most sour Thai-Chinese matriarch in the shop house is putty in your hands.

For me personally, if someone in Thailand who I didn't know was fawning over me, I'd suspect something was up and my bullsh!t detector goes into overdrive.

If you approach life in Thailand that way, you don't become disappointed.

[JurgenG]

I don't understand what it is all about. "Land of Smile" is just a gimmick.

Thai people are no better or worse than other people in the world. When you come to Thailand, it's just like when you go to see a movie, if you expect too much, you've more chances to get disappointed.

Just think of the Japanese who visit France, they even have a name for it, the "Paris syndrome".

[Jingthing]

Yes, LOS was a gimmick even when Thailand was more smiley-faced, in the positive happy smile sense westerners associate with smiling. That's because in Thai culture smiles are used for a huge breadth of emotions and communication messages, many of them very negative, so it was a smart marketing twist to distort that cultural reality into something it never was in the first place.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[greytown]

Just think of the Japanese who visit France, they even have a name for it, the "Paris syndrome".

Interesting thing this Paris Syndrome. Surprised to see that the Japanese are not better informed about the French. I'd think it would be universal knowledge that Parisians are likely the most unpleasant arrogant c*nts on the planet!

[craigt3365]

Just think of the Japanese who visit France, they even have a name for it, the "Paris syndrome".

Interesting thing this Paris Syndrome. Surprised to see that the Japanese are not better informed about the French. I'd think it would be universal knowledge that Parisians are likely the most unpleasant arrogant c*nts on the planet!

Wifey and I made our first trip to Paris about a year ago. Spent 12 days there, and another 10 or so driving around the country. We hardly encountered any unpleasant people there...only one nasty clerk at the airport Ibis...but that can happen anywhere. Paris was no different than any other major city in the world, IMHO.

[surayu]

it is part of living in Asia. It seems insulting, but mostly it is not.

Right, i am aware of the fact that having been inculcated with western values and ways to see a particular action or situation on a certain way rather than another, i try to not to fall victim of preconceived ideas that might not necessarely be wrong or right, so i will add some more specific examples, in the west, if you are trespassing other people private properties without their comsent or them even knowing about it, or people coming into your house without asking permission without even aknowledging your presence there and helping theirselfes on everything around, including your fridge but not only that, it is not seen as something ...."desirable", here in LOS apparently that's perfectly ok, especially in remote not "touristy" areas, and i might even reconsidere the way we see this, but then, why and i would reiterate why, if i do the same, as a foreigner, soon i am challenged in what i am doing and get a very unfriendly and negative reaction from the very same people from whom these way to behave should be the norm? 1+1= 1 ?

Note: ehhmm don't worry if i will ever be around your fridge, i am not used to this sort of lifestyle, i just kind of "tested" the genuinity of the actions of some locals, that's all, i am finding out my owns truths, in a rather dangerous way.......

Edit: spelling again

Edited January 13, 2011 by surayu

[surayu]

Or at a 7-11, not only will our clerk smile, but the others in back of the counter will turn to you and smile before getting back to whatever they were doing.

Yes i had the same experience, you are talking about that group of clerks (between 2 and 5 people) which are having a chit-chat watching something cooking inside the microwave, while another is serving at the only open till, the long cue of people, not least the daring people pretending there is no cue and try to put theirselfes on front of you, so perhaps some of us is being seen as more then a simple walking ATM, we can be some sort of "place holder" as well for whoever feel free to make use of us

But it's not only 7/11 havings groups of clerks having unofficial meetings, i have seen the same in many shopping centers, less the microwave of coarse and sometime less the smiles as well

Edit: added "only"

Edited January 13, 2011 by surayu

[mark45y]

I don't understand what it is all about. "Land of Smile" is just a gimmick.

Thai people are no better or worse than other people in the world. When you come to Thailand, it's just like when you go to see a movie, if you expect too much, you've more chances to get disappointed.

Just think of the Japanese who visit France, they even have a name for it, the "Paris syndrome".

Where was the below photo taken?

A. Paris

B. London

C. NYC

D. Thailand