We were talking about racism in another thread. This is an interesting article on the different perspective of one black man.

The State Against Blacks

'The welfare state has done to black Americans what slavery couldn't do. . . . And that is to destroy the black family.'

By JASON L. RILEY

Devon, Pa.

'Sometimes I sarcastically, perhaps cynically, say that I'm glad that I received virtually all of my education before it became fashionable for white people to like black people," writes Walter Williams in his new autobiography, "Up from the Projects." "By that I mean that I encountered back then a more honest assessment of my strengths and weaknesses. Professors didn't hesitate to criticize me—sometimes to the point of saying, 'That's nonsense.'"

Mr. Williams, an economist at George Mason University, is contrasting being black and poor in the 1940s and '50s with today's experience. It's a theme that permeates his short, bracing volume of reminiscence, and it's where we began our conversation on a recent morning at his home in suburban Philadelphia.

"We lived in the Richard Allen housing projects" in Philadelphia, says Mr. Williams. "My father deserted us when I was three and my sister was two. But we were the only kids who didn't have a mother and father in the house. These were poor black people and a few whites living in a housing project, and it was unusual not to have a mother and father in the house. Today, in the same projects, it would be rare to have a mother and father in the house..."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704881304576094221050061598.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

White families aren't faring so well either, but I don't think it has anything to do with the welfare state.

The welfare state (in whatever country has it) creates dependancy.

Add to that a generational cycle (apples falling close to the tree) and an historical discrimination wherein a part of the population was denied certain aspects or benefits of education, and you may well be able to argue that blacks in America are disadvantaged by the welfare system.

I suppose it comes down to paying people not to work.

It's easier to give handouts than create decent jobs.

I suppose it comes down to paying people not to work.

It's easier to give handouts than create decent jobs.

True, and of course the bureaucracy dispensing the handouts must never ever decrease in size or budget requirements. They have to find ways to cripple their constiuency or they would have no raison d' etre and that would simply be unacceptable.

Welfare dependency is no good. But massive poverty is worse, and often perpetuates itself too. Where do you think blacks have more problems in general, in the US or in African countries?

Welfare dependency is no good. But massive poverty is worse, and often perpetuates itself too. Where do you think blacks have more problems in general, in the US or in African countries?

I didn't mean to give the impression I am anti-welfare, I am not. I'm in favor of it, just as I'm in favor of affirmative action type programs in universities, government and businesses. My point is that once these programs become "institutionalized" they can only grow and the perpetuation of the institution becomes the primary goal as opposed to whatever the original well intended charter was. That can only make for eventual acrimony between various groups which is totally unnecessary. IMO the goals for these institutions should be well defined from the start and should include criteria for getting people off welfare and even better criteria that would bring about the demise of the institution itself.

With a few exceptions, welfare should be goal oriented.  Aid to Families with Dependent Children needs to provide enough and be geared toward seeing that the cycle is not repeated.  Quite a few years ago, there was a study that was done that showed the states with generous welfare benefits were the least likely to have children who were raised on welfare, continue on welfare as adults.  States with the lowest benefits had the highest recidivism rates.  

Children who can be easily identified as a 'welfare' child due to identifiable poverty are at a distinct dis-advantage.  

It wasn't the welfare payments it was the way they were made. Unless I am misinformed which is of course possible.

Payments were only made to women who had no husband in the home.

What happened was the women kicked out the men and had more children which destroyed the family.

We are not talking about welfare per se we are talking about Aid To Dependant Children.

This is what destroyed the family structure not welfare.

Of course these payments were not just made to black people they were made to poor people in general.

So one must assume it would be better to say that LBJ destroyed the family structure of poor people in the US and not just black people.

One must also factor in the race riots, he had to do something.

By welfare state one must mean Johnson's Great Society. Did it keep the blacks down? It is a very complicated period on American history. It includes the civil rights acts of 64 and 68 and economic opportunity acts along with major changes in medicare and medicaid acts. It is a subject that will be studied for years.

Aid to Families with Dependent Children is given to single parent with children, to families where the breadwinner is incapacitated, to families that have been abandoned. Fathers can also receive AFDC if they are single--and the child is not yet in school.

The biggest problem is not women leaving their husbands, it is husbands abandoning their wife and children. Some of the cost is reclaimed through court-ordered child-support payments.Dads (or Moms) are in for some big surprises if they don't pay. Their wages are garnished; they don't get a tax refund and I believe they can't get a passport any longer. The huge expense in welfare is the administrative costs, because god-forbid that somebody get $1 more than they are entitled to.

The other expense for welfare is the cost of medical, but that is a whole other kettle of fish.

Aid to Families with Dependent Children is given to single parent with children, to families where the breadwinner is incapacitated, to families that have been abandoned. Fathers can also receive AFDC if they are single--and the child is not yet in school.

The biggest problem is not women leaving their husbands, it is husbands abandoning their wife and children. Some of the cost is reclaimed through court-ordered child-support payments.Dads (or Moms) are in for some big surprises if they don't pay. Their wages are garnished; they don't get a tax refund and I believe they can't get a passport any longer. The huge expense in welfare is the administrative costs, because god-forbid that somebody get $1 more than they are entitled to.

The other expense for welfare is the cost of medical, but that is a whole other kettle of fish.

I don't know your background but I lived in the inner city of Detroit. It was a game. Have a bunch of kids and get the big bucks. That was in the early 1970's. I worked briefly for HUD tracking VD cases. The men were only out of the home for welfare purposes. Later this gave rise to the men being out of the home permanently. Men rarely got custody of children so it was a 90% female thing. I am not casting any aspersions against any sex it was the nature of the program that separated families. The lady (family) could make more money on ADC than with the husband home working at a low paid job. White or black made no difference.

The programs don't separate people. Poverty separates people because it adds too much stress on a family.

Once you apply for welfare, the state starts looking at your assets and decides what you can own and what you can't to qualify. Even an absent father is required to pay child support. Sometimes what we think we know and what we actually know are different.

I had a friend whose wife was on welfare. The Court actually had his check sent to them and he went by every two weeks to get what the court said he needed to live on...if he wanted new shoes, he had to ask the judge!

Then there is the large number of minority people who are incarcerated and for them, the state gets to support their kids.

Are there welfare cheats? Of course, but they are a lot fewer than most people think.