definition of rogue nation = nothing but a matter of perspective.

North Korea is just a misunderstood nation.

Don't forget helping rogue nations obtain data to build nuclear weapons.

definition of rogue nation = nothing but a matter of perspective. i know of only one rogue nation which during the six decades after World War II has invaded seven independent countries

p.s. going back another decade the number of rogue nations which invaded half a dozen countries increases to three.

As you say..."definition of rogue nation = nothing but a matter of perspective."

To the best of my memory, only the German nation has started two world wars.

To the best of my memory, only the German nation has started two world wars.

the best of your memory clashes with the facts of history. what about a little "googling" and and gaining some basic knowledge how WWI started?

"Sarajevo, Austria/Serbia declaration of war, Russia war actions against on Austria, Germany in military alliance with Austria invoking a certain clause..."

...on numerous occasions hostilities were assumed without a formal declaration, e.g. Russia with Germany and Austria-Hungary in August 1914.

Go ahead. Get it over with. Explain to us how WW 1 was really America and Israel's fault.

Go ahead. Get it over with. Explain to us how WW 1 was really America and Israel's fault.

Get ready. Somebody will make the post.

To the best of my memory, only the German nation has started two world wars.

the best of your memory clashes with the facts of history. what about a little "googling" and and gaining some basic knowledge how WWI started?

"Sarajevo, Austria/Serbia declaration of war, Russia war actions against on Austria, Germany in military alliance with Austria invoking a certain clause..."

...on numerous occasions hostilities were assumed without a formal declaration, e.g. Russia with Germany and Austria-Hungary in August 1914.

So you are claiming they didn't "start" the war, they were simply "involved" in starting the war?

My word, "involved".

Did you actually think I went out and asked 9 of my neighbours?

Actually, I believe hardly anything you post.

there's no way to have a meaningful discussion with uneducated people. the same applies to discussions with semi-educated ones who either dodge when facts are discussed or try to divert from facts by presenting irrelevant bullshit.

now waiting patiently that a resident closet Shmuel or closet Moishe tells me to shut up because i'm personally responsible for the horrors in Oswiecim, Treblinka or Bergen-Belsen because it so happened that my father was german and i hold among other citizenships a german one. what they don't realise is that they contribute to my entertainment and amusement.

there's no way to have a meaningful discussion with uneducated people. the same applies to discussions with semi-educated ones who either dodge when facts are discussed or try to divert from facts by presenting irrelevant bullshit.

now waiting patiently that a resident closet Shmuel or closet Moishe tells me to shut up because i'm personally responsible for the horrors in Oswiecim, Treblinka or Bergen-Belsen because it so happened that my father was german and i hold among other citizenships a german one. what they don't realise is that they contribute to my entertainment and amusement.

To paraphrase an old saying...Never argue with an uneducated person, they simply bring you down to their level.

Welcome to the lower tier of society.

Did you actually think I went out and asked 9 of my neighbours?

Actually, I believe hardly anything you post.

You're a clever man.

there's no way to have a meaningful discussion with uneducated people. the same applies to discussions with semi-educated ones who either dodge when facts are discussed or try to divert from facts by presenting irrelevant bullshit.

now waiting patiently that a resident closet Shmuel or closet Moishe tells me to shut up because i'm personally responsible for the horrors in Oswiecim, Treblinka or Bergen-Belsen because it so happened that my father was german and i hold among other citizenships a german one. what they don't realise is that they contribute to my entertainment and amusement.

To paraphrase an old saying...Never argue with an uneducated person, they simply bring you down to their level.

Welcome to the lower tier of society.

At least you know your place, chucky.

Well I've carried a gun at work since 1979, been on more ranges than you've had..........blah blah blah.

And if you could/can hit with certainty, a moving target through a windshield, from a moving vehicle at 50 meters !!............ Alex, you are the greatest marksman I have ever met ( and I've met a few ).

there's no way to have a meaningful discussion with uneducated people. the same applies to discussions with semi-educated ones who either dodge when facts are discussed or try to divert from facts by presenting irrelevant bullshit.

How could anyone even hope to argue with your thoughtful, knowledgeable, fact-filled posts?

yada, yada, yada... yakety-yak.

Well I've carried a gun at work since 1979, been on more ranges than you've had..........blah blah blah.

And if you could/can hit with certainty, a moving target through a windshield, from a moving vehicle at 50 meters !!............ Alex, you are the greatest marksman I have ever met ( and I've met a few ).

Hey hey hey, I didn't shoot those guys.......

Following is the Stratfor take on the situation we have been discussing. It is offered without comment.

_______________________________________________________

Pakistani Intelligence and the CIA: Mutual Distrust and Suspicion

March 3, 2011 | 0956 GMT

By Scott Stewart

On March 1, U.S. diplomatic sources reportedly told Dawn News that a proposed exchange with the Pakistani government of U.S. citizen Raymond Davis for Pakistani citizen Aafia Siddiqui was not going to happen. Davis is a contract security officer working for the CIA who was arrested by Pakistani police on Jan. 27 following an incident in which he shot two men who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt. Siddiqui was arrested by the Afghan National Police in Afghanistan in 2008 on suspicion of being linked to al Qaeda.

During Siddiqui’s interrogation at a police station, she reportedly grabbed a weapon from one of her interrogators and opened fire on the American team sent to debrief her. Siddiqui was wounded in the exchange of fire and taken to Bagram air base for treatment. After her recovery, she was transported to the United States and charged in U.S. District Court in New York with armed assault and the attempted murder of U.S. government employees. Siddique was convicted in February 2010 and sentenced in September 2010 to 86 years in prison.

Given the differences in circumstances between these two cases, it is not difficult to see why the U.S. government would not agree to such an exchange. Siddique had been arrested by the local authorities and was being questioned, while Davis was accosted on the street by armed men and thought he was being robbed. His case has served to exacerbate a growing rift between the CIA and Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate (ISI).

Read entire article here: http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110302-pakistani-intelligence-cia-mutual-distrust-suspicion?utm_source=SWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110303&utm_content=readmore&elq=e360d47b63ab4378a68d3f2f35da4e29

Dear Chuck,

As we all would like to know the truth, stratfor is not a likely source to find it.

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

The article you linked to is full of propaganda as to why these "Diplomats" need protection.

One of the things mentioned is that they needed protection while negotiating/having meetings with "Terrorists"

Excuse me but I remember the US government saying they would never negotiate with them?

I am just back from a 13 hour flight so a bit tired but from the back of my head there are about 800 people with a US diplomatic "Function" down in Pakistan.

People should wonder what all these people are doing there.

Take care all!

Alex

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

Uh, Mr. Davis IS THE ONLY source for what Mr. Davis was thinking. It doesn't matter if the New York Times, Huffington Post or whatever reported it or not. Only he can tell you what he was thinking at the time.

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

Uh, Mr. Davis IS THE ONLY source for what Mr. Davis was thinking. It doesn't matter if the New York Times, Huffington Post or whatever reported it or not. Only he can tell you what he was thinking at the time.

There is a significant difference (or slant) between writing "reportedly pointed a pistol at him" and writing "Davis claims that...."

"Reportedly" implies an independant witness, and as you have pointed out, it is only Davis' claim.

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

Uh, Mr. Davis IS THE ONLY source for what Mr. Davis was thinking. It doesn't matter if the New York Times, Huffington Post or whatever reported it or not. Only he can tell you what he was thinking at the time.

There is a significant difference (or slant) between writing "reportedly pointed a pistol at him" and writing "Davis claims that...."

"Reportedly" implies an independant witness, and as you have pointed out, it is only Davis' claim.

It seems to me that Alex (perhaps tired from his 13-hr flight) was doubting that Davis really thought what he thought because he hadn't read it anywhere other than Davis' own statement.

I'm not judging whether or not he was being robbed, or whether or not he thought he was being robbed. I'm just saying that if you say you were thinking something, then I don't need to read it in a third party source the New York Times because you are the source for what you think.

Dear Chuck,

As we all would like to know the truth, stratfor is not a likely source to find it.

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

The article you linked to is full of propaganda as to why these "Diplomats" need protection.

One of the things mentioned is that they needed protection while negotiating/having meetings with "Terrorists"

Excuse me but I remember the US government saying they would never negotiate with them?

I am just back from a 13 hour flight so a bit tired but from the back of my head there are about 800 people with a US diplomatic "Function" down in Pakistan.

People should wonder what all these people are doing there.

Take care all!

Alex

Simply because you have not read anywhere that the alleged robbers allegedly pointed an alleged pistol at Davis, does not mean it didn't actually happen.

This is the way I presented the piece.."Following is the Stratfor take on the situation we have been discussing. It is offered without comment."

As far as you believing my post...I don't really care. OK?

Now the discussion on blood money comes up.

______________________________________________________

Lawyer suggests 'blood money' to free US man

By CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press – 1 hr 28 mins ago

LAHORE, Pakistan – Since his brother was shot and killed by an American CIA contractor last month, scores of Islamist politicians have met with Waseem Shamzad in his bare sitting room to bring sympathy, offers of help and a stark message: if U.S. envoys come offering "blood money" to get their man out of jail, tell them to go away.

Shamzad and two other families mourning a dead relative because of the shooting say America has not offered compensation yet, but Pakistani officials have suggested such payments could help end a crisis that has exposed the fragility of ties between the two nations.

While the United States insists Raymond Allen Davis, the detained CIA contractor, has immunity from prosecution, his lawyer said Friday that "bloody money" was "not just a good way, but the best way" to resolve the issue. The United States has not commented on whether it intends to try that approach, either formally or as a way of cooling popular anger if Davis is freed on other grounds.

Rest of article here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110305/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_detained_american

Dear Chuck,

As we all would like to know the truth, stratfor is not a likely source to find it.

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

The article you linked to is full of propaganda as to why these "Diplomats" need protection.

One of the things mentioned is that they needed protection while negotiating/having meetings with "Terrorists"

Excuse me but I remember the US government saying they would never negotiate with them?

I am just back from a 13 hour flight so a bit tired but from the back of my head there are about 800 people with a US diplomatic "Function" down in Pakistan.

People should wonder what all these people are doing there.

Take care all!

Alex

Simply because you have not read anywhere that the alleged robbers allegedly pointed an alleged pistol at Davis, does not mean it didn't actually happen.

This is the way I presented the piece.."Following is the Stratfor take on the situation we have been discussing. It is offered without comment."

As far as you believing my post...I don't really care. OK?

Simply because you have not read anywhere that the alleged robbers allegedly pointed an alleged pistol at Davis, does not mean it didn't actually happen.

So have you read or got info from anywhere that these guys pointed their gun at "Mr. Davis" other than the statement from stratfor?

(And please stop trying covering your behind adding alleged into every sentence).

So far all articles published state that "Mr. Davis shot those guys (In the back) in an act of pre emptive self defense as he stated he thought they were out to rob him.

This is the way I presented the piece.."Following is the Stratfor take on the situation we have been discussing. It is offered without comment."

As far as you believing my post...I don't really care. OK?

It was not YOUR post (are you referring to the stratfor piece) unless you claim to be the person actually writing that piece for stratfor do you?

It is a favorite tactic of you isn't it Chuck, to divert the discussion into some minor discrepancies, word games and such.

Are you one of those retired generals that are instructed and payed by the US government to show up in TV shows and air their "professional" view on "The wars"

Or are you just one of those guys that wish and dream to be one of them whilst sitting behind a screen dressed in a Mickey mouse shirt with coffee stains all over while residing in a 3000 THB studio claiming to have connections with the Pentagon?

Get real Chuck, and prove that you are what you say you are.

Alex

Or are you just one of those guys that wish and dream to be one of them whilst sitting behind a screen dressed in a Mickey mouse shirt with coffee stains all over while residing in a 3000 THB studio claiming to have connections with the Pentagon?

"Alleged" is perfectly reasonable as there is no video of what actually happened.

How about guys sitting in a seedy little room wearing a tin-foil hat and making up ridiculous conspiracy theories that they keep posting on Thai Visa?

Dear Chuck,

As we all would like to know the truth, stratfor is not a likely source to find it.

For example the following quote: who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

I have not seen this reported anywhere other than a statement made by Mr. Davis that he thought they were out to rob him.

The article you linked to is full of propaganda as to why these "Diplomats" need protection.

One of the things mentioned is that they needed protection while negotiating/having meetings with "Terrorists"

Excuse me but I remember the US government saying they would never negotiate with them?

I am just back from a 13 hour flight so a bit tired but from the back of my head there are about 800 people with a US diplomatic "Function" down in Pakistan.

People should wonder what all these people are doing there.

Take care all!

Alex

Simply because you have not read anywhere that the alleged robbers allegedly pointed an alleged pistol at Davis, does not mean it didn't actually happen.

This is the way I presented the piece.."Following is the Stratfor take on the situation we have been discussing. It is offered without comment."

As far as you believing my post...I don't really care. OK?

Simply because you have not read anywhere that the alleged robbers allegedly pointed an alleged pistol at Davis, does not mean it didn't actually happen.

So have you read or got info from anywhere that these guys pointed their gun at "Mr. Davis" other than the statement from stratfor?

(And please stop trying covering your behind adding alleged into every sentence).

So far all articles published state that "Mr. Davis shot those guys (In the back) in an act of pre emptive self defense as he stated he thought they were out to rob him.

This is the way I presented the piece.."Following is the Stratfor take on the situation we have been discussing. It is offered without comment."

As far as you believing my post...I don't really care. OK?

It was not YOUR post (are you referring to the stratfor piece) unless you claim to be the person actually writing that piece for stratfor do you?

It is a favorite tactic of you isn't it Chuck, to divert the discussion into some minor discrepancies, word games and such.

Are you one of those retired generals that are instructed and payed by the US government to show up in TV shows and air their "professional" view on "The wars"

Or are you just one of those guys that wish and dream to be one of them whilst sitting behind a screen dressed in a Mickey mouse shirt with coffee stains all over while residing in a 3000 THB studio claiming to have connections with the Pentagon?

Get real Chuck, and prove that you are what you say you are.

Alex

Nope, not a retired General, but I have worked with quite a few of them...Admirals as well. I used to play golf every Friday with a retired Brigadier in Iran. Does that count?

I don't pay nuthin for rent. Own both of my homes outright and what's wrong with wearing a Mickey Mouse shirt?

Why do I have to prove anything to the forum's conspiracy theorist? I are what I are and you am what you am...and I still don't care.

Talk about playing word games......

You certainly am!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/opinion/04fri2.html?_r=1

Another Brave Man Killed in Pakistan

The official killed on Wednesday was Shahbaz Bhatti, the minister of minorities and the only Christian in the cabinet. Gunmen ambushed him outside his house in Islamabad.

------

I bet he wishes he shot first like the American did. I also wonder if the Pakistani police will hunt for the killers?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/04/opinion/04fri2.html?_r=1

Another Brave Man Killed in Pakistan

The official killed on Wednesday was Shahbaz Bhatti, the minister of minorities and the only Christian in the cabinet. Gunmen ambushed him outside his house in Islamabad.

------

I bet he wishes he shot first like the American did. I also wonder if the Pakistani police will hunt for the killers?

The ISI probably shot him. They are the police.

Again trying to divert.

Go back to start.

Just off the presses...

See post number 111.

______________________________________________________

Blood money' frees CIA contractor in Pakistan

By BABAR DOGAR, Associated Press – 35 mins ago

LAHORE, Pakistan – An American CIA contractor detained on suspicion of murder was released on Wednesday after families of the two Pakistanis he killed were given "blood money" and the case was dropped, Pakistani officials said.

The killings and detention of Raymond Allen Davis had strained ties between Pakistan and the United States and added to anti-America sentiment.

Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah said Davis was charged with murder Wednesday but then immediately pardoned by the families of the victims in exchange for compensation or "blood money", as is permitted under Pakistani law. Davis was arrested on Jan. 27 after killing two Pakistanis in what he said was self-defense.

Chaudhry Mushtaq, superintendent at Kot Lakhpat jail, said Davis left the jail with U.S. consulate officials after the hearing.

U.S. officials were not available for comment.

The United States had insisted that Davis had diplomatic immunity and demanded Pakistan free him immediately.

Pakistani officials, faced with criticism by Islamist parties and members of the public, had refused to state clearly whether he had immunity.

Pakistani officials had suggested that the payment of "blood money" was the best solution and in recent days speculation mounted that such a deal was in the works.

Sanaullah said Davis was formally indicted on murder charges before members of the two slain mens' families were taken into the court, where they signed papers formally forgiving him in exchange for an undisclosed sum of money.

Judges then acquitted him on all charges, he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110316/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_detained_american

Paying the ransom usually works in these countries.