Ceasefire Agreed But Thai-Cambodian Border 'Tense'

[webfact]

Ceasefire agreed but Thai-Cambodian border 'tense'

by Michelle Fitzpatrick

PHNOM PENH, February 5, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand and Cambodia negotiated an end to deadly fighting on their border on Saturday, both armies said, after at least four people were killed in clashes near a disputed temple.

"Thailand and Cambodia have agreed a ceasefire and both sides will not reinforce their troops," Thai army spokesman Colonel Sunsern Kaewkumnerd told AFP after military commanders from both sides met for talks in a border town.

A Cambodian general also confirmed the end to hostilities, but added that the "situation right now is still tense".

One Thai soldier was killed in brief morning skirmishes near the 11th-century Preah Vihear temple, following two hours of heavy fighting on Friday that left a Cambodian soldier and a Thai civilian dead.

Military sources said a Cambodian civilian who made a living photographing tourists at the temple had also been killed in Friday's clash, although the Cambodian government declined to confirm this.

Reports from the border suggested four captured Thai soldiers were returned following the ceasefire talks. Both sides have reported injured troops.

Thousands of people fled the border area on Friday as villages were evacuated on both sides after fighting between the neighbours erupted for the first time in more than a year when simmering border tensions boiled over.

Both countries have accused the other of starting the latest violence and using heavy weapons such as mortars, rockets and artillery.

Cambodia's Foreign Minister Hor Namhong has written to the United Nations to draw its attention to the "explosive situation at the border".

Blaming the fighting on "flagrant aggression" by Thai troops, he said "Cambodian troops had no option but to retaliate in self-defence", in a letter addressed to UN Security Council president Maria Luiza Ribeiro Viotti.

He did not explicitly call for UN intervention.

Thailand, which convened an urgent security meeting on Saturday afternoon, has said it was also considering filing a complaint to the UN.

The United States urged both sides to exercise "maximum restraint".

Thailand has accused Cambodia of shelling a village, while Cambodia said Thai armed forces had fired artillery shells about 20 kilometres (12 miles) inside Cambodian territory.

Cambodia said the fighting had caused "serious" damage to the ancient Preah Vihear temple, which was granted UN World Heritage status in July 2008 straining ties between the neighbors.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand and the 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) area around the temple is claimed by both sides.

The Thai-Cambodia border has never been fully demarcated partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

Thailand and Cambodia have been talking tough on the border issue, which some observers say serves nationalist goals at home on both sides.

Tensions between the two countries have flared in recent weeks in the wake of the arrest of seven Thai nationals for illegal entry into Cambodia in late December.

Two of them were sentenced to lengthy jail terms for spying, in a case that has caused outrage among Thailand's influential nationalist "Yellow Shirts".

Thai Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said the Yellows, who were expected to step up a protest outside Government House in Bangkok on Saturday, had worsened the conflict.

Michael Montesano, of the Institute of Southeast Asia Studies in Singapore, said: "A very small group of Yellow Shirts are determined to keep tensions with Cambodia on the boil."

Yellow Shirts are a force to be reckoned with in Thailand's colour-coded politics and have helped to claim the scalps of three governments in under five years, including that of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

They used to be closely linked to Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva but relations have since soured.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-02-05

[SomTumTiger]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

[Orac]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

I thought the article already addressed that???

"They used to be closely linked to Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva but relations have since soured."

[SomTumTiger]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

I thought the article already addressed that???

"They used to be closely linked to Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva but relations have since soured."

The people doing the linking were wrong to begin with, its only the logical deduction that has soured.

[animatic]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

I thought the article already addressed that???

"They used to be closely linked to Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva but relations have since soured."

The people doing the linking were wrong to begin with, its only the logical deduction that has soured.

Other than a rather limited overlapping between a few individual PAD members and Dem party members, there was never more than a parallelism caused be a common foe; Thaksin. Beyond that there was little in common except for certain individuals, but certainly not either groups in a majority sense. A bully pulpit for making speeches at most.

The Dems benefited from the PAD being a stalking horse and not much else, and more aptly have had a continuous hassle about them the majority of the time. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend, but I must at least treat them even handedly lest they become my enemy also. Now the PAD not getting their way has increased their list of enemies 10 fold, and ultimately to their own loss.

Edited February 5, 2011 by animatic

[SouthernMan3]

Usually I do not like to say "I told you so" but in this situation I am glad to say, I told you so !

[anon467367354]

although the tension was there already, I truly think the situation was deliberately aggravated by those Thai people trespassing, and I think they knew they were trespassing, kind of "testing" the system. Has anybody determined what they were doing there, or was it a nice day for a stroll in a minefield? I think the long term jail sentences were more than they bargained for and originally an excuse to demand the PM to do something that couldn't be done especially within a limited time frame to oust him. Good for the ceasefire, no one needs to get killed over this. Let's hope they work it out, exciting as it might be for those watching it on a screen. It certainly seems the "yellows" are no longer in bed with the PM. soured grapes

[TimeBandit2]

That was a fast cease fire...only heard about the violence a couple hours ago.

[oldsailor35]

"Flagrant agression by Thai troops"...................yep ! we all saw that in Bangkok, did'nt we. However this time the victims were armed and ready to fight back........different hey ?

oops, better have a cease fire quickly.

[Pib]

Thailand, which convened an urgent security meeting on Saturday afternoon, has said it was also considering filing a complaint to the UN.

Yes sir, that is what I would do...file a complaint with the United Nations Customer Service.

[webfact]

Thai, Cambodian soldiers agree to ceasefire

BANGKOK, Feb 5 -- Thai and Cambodian soldiers have agreed to end ongoing fighting at their disputed border, which erupted Friday while five Thai soldiers reported captured at a coordination point at Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Pagoda have returned from the area, a Thai army spokesman said Saturday.

The five were posted at the Keo Sikha Kiri Svara pagoda and were assigned to coordinate with Cambodian soldiers.

Army spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the agreement was made following negotiations between Lt Gen Tawatchai Samutsakorn, Second Region Army commander responsible for security affairs in Thailand’s northeastern region, with Cambodia’s Fourth Army commander Lt Gen Chea Mon, held early Saturday.

Besides the ceasefire, both sides also agreed that neither side would reinforce their troops at the border, prevent an “accident” from reoccurring in future and promised to coordinate more closely with an aim to preventing clashes at the ill-defined border from erupting again, Col Sansern said.

Five Thai soldiers who had been detained by Cambodian soldiers while they were stationing at a disputed temple were also freed following the ceasefire talks, he said.

Gen Tawatchai is scheduled to attend a bathing rite ceremony for a Thai soldier who was killed during Saturday’s fighting at a Buddhist temple in the Thai border district of Kantharalak in Si Sa Ket province later today.

As a goodwill gesture following the ceasefire talks, Gen Tawatchai had ordered the reopening of Chong Jom border point in the northeastern province of Surin. The border point was closed Friday after the clash erupted.

Although the border has reopened, Thai and Cambodian soldiers are still confronting each other in the area and Surin officials have mapped out evacuation plans for Thai villagers in case fighting breaks out. Thai border villagers have been told to monitor the situation closely.

Thai Public Health officials in the region said so far 17 Thais -- 14 soldiers and three civilians -- were wounded from the clashes. Ten of the wounded soldiers had been transported via helicopter to receive treatment at an army hospital in Ubon Ratchathani province.

In the Thai capital of Bangkok, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva held an urgent meeting with several ministers and top security officials at the Government House to assess the situation.

Among those attended the meeting which began at 1pm were Defence Minister Gen Prawit Wongsuwan, Foreign Affairs Minister Kasit Piromya, and Army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-02-05

[webfact]

2nd Army Region commander: ceasefire, no reinforcement of troops agreed upon by Thailand, Cambodia; locals asked not to return home yet /TAN_Network

[geovalin]

Now the PAD not getting their way has increased their list of enemies 10 fold, and ultimately to their own loss.

Your quote makes sense but there is something irrational with the Yellow. They always win even if they are not numerous. It looks their support is SOOOOOOO powerful that they are untouchable.

[kamahele]

This moron (me) decided to do my visa run to Cambodia today as it is the closest border and within a 2.5 hour drive. I should have read the news first as the border was closed when we got there.

[tigerbalm]

Good news both the Thai's and Cambodian's have negotiated a cease fire (Lets hope it lasts)

Good news Cambodia has returned the 4 Thai Army personnel, captured in their territory (As i understand it)could have quite easily been arrested for illegal entry in to Cambodia and sentenced to 6 0r 8 years for spying

Sad news a handful of people have lost their lives (For what)

[spectrumisgreen]

"Flagrant agression by Thai troops"...................yep ! we all saw that in Bangkok, did'nt we. However this time the victims were armed and ready to fight back........different hey ?

oops, better have a cease fire quickly.

If those who so easily rehash, like yourself, words to the effect of 'The nasty nasty evil Thai government and generals wantonly killing lovely lovely common people having a friendly chat on a few street corners' (also so easily relating your dogmatic throwaway lines to anything and everything else that happens over here) were even half right, do you have any idea how many would actually have been killed on Bangkok's streets? Do you know what automatic rifles can actually do? Safe to say a hell of a lot more would have died than those who were (yes, very tragically and needlessly -isn't it always that way?) killed!! Sounds to me like you should now probably be hopping over the border to side with the Cambodians, going by your 'Thais don't like it back, do they?' tone. Do any of you who post these rehash after rehashes on here actually have even the slightest real notion of just what goes on on in another's counrty, including the true rights and wrongs? Personally I doubt it, going by the fact it always smacks of talking of another countries' issues (yup, some of em massive) like we 'guests' have some privvy information which only looking down from our hitherto unblemished ivory towers has afforded us!!!!!!!

Condolences to those lost and the quicker this is mediated successfully and moved on from, without more loss of life, the better.. no points to be scored here, methinks, lads!!!

Edited February 5, 2011 by spectrumisgreen

[jayboy]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

I thought the article already addressed that???

"They used to be closely linked to Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva but relations have since soured."

The people doing the linking were wrong to begin with, its only the logical deduction that has soured.

Other than a rather limited overlapping between a few individual PAD members and Dem party members, there was never more than a parallelism caused be a common foe; Thaksin. Beyond that there was little in common except for certain individuals, but certainly not either groups in a majority sense. A bully pulpit for making speeches at most.

The Dems benefited from the PAD being a stalking horse and not much else, and more aptly have had a continuous hassle about them the majority of the time. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend, but I must at least treat them even handedly lest they become my enemy also. Now the PAD not getting their way has increased their list of enemies 10 fold, and ultimately to their own loss.

No there was much more in common, which was essentially to preserve the stranglehold of the elite and their mainly Sino-Thai middle class hangers on by seeking to permanently neutralise the rural Thai majority or at least strictly limit its influence.You are right that the elite was always ready to abandon PAD once it had served its original attack dog purpose.Remember the high level backers of PAD were the same groupings that backed violence and murder back in 1976, and for the same reasons.PAD can always be resurrected if the elite feels it necessary, but there's the same instinctive dislike of PAD independence as there is of Red influence .In any event ties continue:Finance Minister Korn and his rather disturbing wife are both PAD afficionados ( the fascist leader Oswald Moseley was a Wykehamist as well), and there are many more sympathisers in the Dem leadership.I am prepared to believe Abhisit's ambivalence merely represents a political calculation, but the Dems are the party of the elite and frankly anything goes to prevent the Thai people achieving or retaining their preferred government.

[dude007]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

Wouldn't be surprised to learn that a couple of Thai soldiers have been offered for pleasing the Patriots network and the yellow shirts. Abhisit has repeatedly been blamed for a too soft stance: these guys want BLOOD! And that Thais started first the shooting seems to be in the same line of thinking.

Hope I am wrong, but it sounds so immature... No war has ever solved a demarcation problem. The Thais have so much difficulties in accepting the international court of "The Hague (1962)" ruling that the castle was Cambodian. So HOW a Cambodian castle can ever have its entry on Thai soil???? Members of the press: start thinking a bit logically, not biased! Stop saying that the pagoda has its entry on Thai soil: that is wrong after the clear and outspoken verdict from the international court (which for almost 40 years wat NOT contested by the Thai authorities).

Edited February 5, 2011 by dude007

[whybother]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

Wouldn't be surprised to learn that a couple of Thai soldiers have been offered for pleasing the Patriots network and the yellow shirts. Abhisit has repeatedly been blamed for a too soft stance: these guys want BLOOD! And that Thais started first the shooting seems to be in the same line of thinking.

Hope I am wrong, but it sounds so immature... No war has ever solved a demarcation problem. The Thais have so much difficulties in accepting the international court of "The Hague (1962)" ruling that the castle was Cambodian. So HOW a Cambodian castle can have its entry on Thai soil???? Members of the press: start thinking a bit logically, not Thai! Stop saying that the pagoda has its entry on Thai soil: that is wrong after the clear and outspoken verdict from the international court (which for almost 40 years wat NOT contested by the Thai authorities).

Based on the 1962 verdict, the entry to the temple IS on Thai soil.

edit: fixed your edit - 1062 -> 1962.

+ edit: the 1962 verdict was for the temple and lands OF the temple. There was no verdict on the 4 sq km around the temple, which is what all the fuss is about now.

Edited February 5, 2011 by whybother

[dude007]

This moron (me) decided to do my visa run to Cambodia today as it is the closest border and within a 2.5 hour drive. I should have read the news first as the border was closed when we got there.

You mean the Aranyaphrathet - Poipet border??? Jesus. That's news!

[vinceentz]

there is no cease fire. My girlfriend can hear the bombardement and it makes the roof tremble. scary

[dude007]

Where are all those people who were claiming that the Government and the Yellows were one and the same?

Wouldn't be surprised to learn that a couple of Thai soldiers have been offered for pleasing the Patriots network and the yellow shirts. Abhisit has repeatedly been blamed for a too soft stance: these guys want BLOOD! And that Thais started first the shooting seems to be in the same line of thinking.

Hope I am wrong, but it sounds so immature... No war has ever solved a demarcation problem. The Thais have so much difficulties in accepting the international court of "The Hague (1962)" ruling that the castle was Cambodian. So HOW a Cambodian castle can have its entry on Thai soil???? Members of the press: start thinking a bit logically, not Thai! Stop saying that the pagoda has its entry on Thai soil: that is wrong after the clear and outspoken verdict from the international court (which for almost 40 years wat NOT contested by the Thai authorities).

Based on the 1962 verdict, the entry to the temple IS on Thai soil.

Have you ever seen a Thai temple that limits its land boundaries to the treshold of the entry door? Sounds totally illogic! Every pagoda has a lot of land in its surroundings belonging to the pagoda: this is not a house in a street: it's a stone castle!

edit: fixed your edit - 1062 -> 1962.

+ edit: the 1962 verdict was for the temple and lands OF the temple. There was no verdict on the 4 sq km around the temple, which is what all the fuss is about now.

[david555]

Good news both the Thai's and Cambodian's have negotiated a cease fire (Lets hope it lasts)

Good news Cambodia has returned the 4 Thai Army personnel, captured in their territory (As i understand it)could have quite easily been arrested for illegal entry in to Cambodia and sentenced to 6 0r 8 years for spying

Sad news a handful of people have lost their lives (For what)

A soldier IN UNIFORM from his OWN army is not classified as a spy (normally ).......civillians dresses ... that is other cake.... :jap:

[anterian]

Apparently the temple was damaged in the fighting, why not finish it off completely, then there would be nothing to fight over.

[TimTang]

I have an "IDEA" that maybe others could contribute to or at least provide some constructive Criticism.

First, determine the area of contention; and I mean professional surveyors, the full <deleted>.

Secondly, We name this area "Friendship Park".

Now we proceed to turn this area of violence into a tourist attraction where two cultures combine rather than conflict.

Turn it into a corporation where both side have a 50-50 contribution and a 50-50 earning off what ever the region reaps.

Declare if a free trade zone, so both cultures can flog their wares and food vendors can provide a variety of selections from both sides of the border.

These are just preliminary ideas off the cuff, but imagine how it would appear on the international stage if two countries converted an area of dispute into an area of cooperation and cultural exchange?

Maybe I'm idealistic, utopian, or just plain crazy, but it would be a unique resolution to a commonly re-occurring problem, and at least people would profit rather than die.

Edited February 5, 2011 by TimTang

[Scott]

In the US state of North Dakota, there is the International Peace Garden. North Dakota is known as "The Peace Garden State." This is a nice large park with 1/2 of it in the US and 1/2 of it in Canada.

I haven't been there for a long, long time, but people were free to wonder around in either country. Of course there is no border squabble and the border area is clearly marked so you can have your picture taken with one foot in Canada and one in the US.

It's quite nice. In the summer that is.

[Fookhaht]

I have an "IDEA" that maybe others could contribute to or at least provide some constructive Criticism.

First, determine the area of contention; and I mean professional surveyors, the full <deleted>.

Secondly, We name this area "Friendship Park".

Now we proceed to turn this area of violence into a tourist attraction where two cultures combine rather than conflict.

Turn it into a corporation where both side have a 50-50 contribution and a 50-50 earning off what ever the region reaps.

Declare if a free trade zone, so both cultures can flog their wares and food vendors can provide a variety of selections from both sides of the border.

These are just preliminary ideas off the cuff, but imagine how it would appear on the international stage if two countries converted an area of dispute into an area of cooperation and cultural exchange?

Maybe I'm idealistic, utopian, or just plain crazy, but it would be a unique resolution to a commonly re-occurring problem, and at least people would profit rather than die.

Something like ..... ?

U.S.-Canadian "Peace Arch Park" established on the heels of the "Pig War" fought between the English and the USA in Washington State/B.C. Canadian border, 1859. The monument sits directly on the border line. No barbed wire. No land mines. Just a peaceful park where two nations sat down like adults and verbally negotiated their way from hostility to peace.

Yeah, I believe there's a sacred ancient Indian totem pole in the vicinity, but no one thought the religious monument worth dying over. But hey, what could a 1,000 year old culture like Siam or the Khmers learn from these upstart western countries?

Incidentally, duty-free shops near the park do a brisk business with the local tourists who come to enjoy the park or pass on through to either nation.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Fookhaht

[bangon04]

Good news both the Thai's and Cambodian's have negotiated a cease fire (Lets hope it lasts)

Good news Cambodia has returned the 4 Thai Army personnel, captured in their territory (As i understand it)could have quite easily been arrested for illegal entry in to Cambodia and sentenced to 6 0r 8 years for spying

Sad news a handful of people have lost their lives (For what)

These must be the 4 Thai soldiers which Thai ministers had insisted had not been captured in the first place - it was only rumour or propaganda.

Were they real soldiers or Rangers? Plausible deniability anyone?

Also - does anyone think that the Royal Thai Army firing artillery shells across the border to a distance of 10k behind the lines can be described as a proportionate response to Cambodianrandom mortaring of Thai troops at the border???? Is this why the Generals want to buy more tanks?

[EyesWideOpen]

Wag the dog........

Just visited the temple from the Cambodia side two weeks ago. Beautiful area, too bad both sides cannot act more normal and let people come to see it

I toured around south Thailand two years ago around Yala..... Seems odd Thailand is worried about the 2 square kilometers near the temple. when for all intents and purposes they have lost hundreds of square kilometers in southern Thailand. Too funny, except for the troops who lost their lives over this bullshit....

Edited February 5, 2011 by rhiekel

[resspec]

Fookhaht,

Never fails to amaze me...............

English v USA??????

I'm pretty sure the USA didn't exist at the time, however if you guys want to feel as though you have some history why let it cloud your rhetoric?