State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-12371994

What's this, a British PM with balls?

I'm a bit surprised he singled out the muzzies. I would not have singled out any group even if I was thinking of one in particular.Gotta agree with him though.

Again, British politicians following the lead of ThaiVisa.

I made the same comments a few weeks ago, on this forum.

(Didn't quote on any particular group, though)

Mr Cameron suggested there would be greater scrutiny of some Muslim groups which get public money but do little to tackle extremism

Why would any religious group be receiving public monies? Bad enough the tax exempt status (In the US anyway).

Public monies aside, how much of any government's multicultural policies can be blamed for the problems with Muslims in the UK?

To me it seems the divisions lie in foreign policy like support for Israel, the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and generally the War on Terrorism, which young Muslims, with the encouragement of a few hard core extremists, see as a war on Islam.

Multicultural policy in Australia was very confused and contentious until 1989, when a Joint Party Position was agreed between Labour, the Liberals and the Nationals (no Greens in those days).

From that point on, Australians of both settler and immigrant background generally agreed that immigrants and their children should be assisted where necessary (e.g. in English language education, and where ethnic-based welfare agencies were doing a good job providing appropriate services to their people, especially the elderly, in their own languages), but they should, wherever possible, learn English and participate in civil society. That, in effect, is what has happened for immigrant communities, at least those from Europe and Asia, who have a good record of full employment and social mobility.

Not all communities have been equally successful, and it would have to be said that the post-1970s Lebanese immigrants have had problems integrating, as have some marginal elements of the Vietnamese community who are involved in the illegal drugs business.

A key emphasis in the 1989 Joint Position was that Australia's institutional heritage, derived from Great Britain, was central to the nation's identity and well-being and would be maintained in its English-speaking forms. There was no opposition to this from the ethnic communities at the time.

I've been away for quite a few years now, but it seems that some opposition to the agreed view has been voiced and, occasionally, demonstrated by members of the more recently arrived Muslim communities, including calls for Sharia law to be an alternative code for their purposes. These calls have not gained much support, at least openly, among the main Muslim communities, however, most of whom seem to be quite happy to be living in Australia and not yearning for the restoration of the Caliphate.

I know about the confusion and occasional irrationalism of some in the multicultural lobbies in the 80s because I worked with them in my capacity as an education program manager. Some ethnic lobby reps in those days hadn't come to terms that they were now living in a different country, and some Anglo-Australian multiculturalists had a romantic idea that a more colourful Australia, and one less boring, might emerge from a flourishing of celebrated ethnicities. They didn't really count the costs (financially and otherwise) and they were not privy to the power games played among leadership contenders in the ethnic communities, where success was at least partly measured by how much an individual could be granted from the public purse.

It all settled down after 1989, and I hope Australia is still a tolerant, but cohesive society. It was challenged briefly in the 90s by Pauline Hanson's One Nation, but ON never got more than about 10% of the vote and fizzled after a few years. It was not simply a racist or xenophobic movement anyway - more a cri de coeur from people who sensed they were struggling to keep up.

Please note, however, that the Aboriginal communities are still regarded as a special component of Australian society, and what I have said above does not refer to their relationship to either the long-established population or the post-war immigrants.

People who I have known and respected for years in Australia have adopted racist attitudes over the last ten years.

They constantly forward racist and xenophobic emails and insist the Muslim and sub-Saharan immigrants will never assimilate.

There seems to be a groundswell of opinion that the restoration of the White Australia policy would not be a bad thing.

I blame the libbies who try to pander to every muzzie whim.

If they were told "This is Britain/Oz/whatever, like it or lump it", they might just choose to like it. Instead they have remained largely self-segregated and a "Them and Us" attitude has developed.

I blame the libbies who try to pander to every muzzie whim.

If they were told "This is Britain/Oz/whatever, like it or lump it", they might just choose to like it. Instead they have remained largely self-segregated and a "Them and Us" attitude has developed.

The first generations of immigrants into the UK did fit in - as much as they were allowed* - and made a good job of it. It's the younger one who seem to be having the problems.

*I can remember the 'No Blacks, No Irish' signs in windows where rooms were available.

I blame the libbies who try to pander to every muzzie whim.

If they were told "This is Britain/Oz/whatever, like it or lump it", they might just choose to like it. Instead they have remained largely self-segregated and a "Them and Us" attitude has developed.

The first generations of immigrants into the UK did fit in - as much as they were allowed* - and made a good job of it. It's the younger one who seem to be having the problems.

*I can remember the 'No Blacks, No Irish' signs in windows where rooms were available.

This was often because they were young, single men with no family support or family control. So these guys - both with a drinking culture - would go out, get drunk, vomit in their beds. If you were a landlord, would you want that?

On the other hand, I had a couple of friends in the sixties who were 'hot-bedding' a dozen beds in old condemned buildings and making a fortune out of the same guys. On my last trip to London some of these condemned buildings were still standing, but had different owners.

The thing about all this, as far as I am concerned, is that if you move to another country intending to stay for a long time, then you should be aware of that country's mores and customs and be prepared to abide by them, be prepared to learn the language, be prepared to live within the laws of that country and not give offence.

I have lived and worked in France, Germany, Iran, Sweden, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Nigeria, UAE, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore, Hong Kong, Italy, USA and Indonesia (that I can recall quickly) and have endeavoured to follow the customs of each of those countries as well as I could. It did not stop me ending up in jail in Libya, but I was not expelled, only fined after a weekend in jail. (Because someone wanted my apartment). Apart from that, I have faded into the local background as much as I could, learnt what I could of each country / each district that I worked in.

I really don't see that other people need do any different. If you go to UK or Oz to live, then you should be aware of the basic principles that govern that country and be prepared to accept them. The last time that there was a major shift in the governance of the UK was at the civil war. The last real attempt at change was the Chartist movement that almost led to civil war.

It now seems to be coming by stealth, though, with all the pathetic 'lets-be-nice-to-these-poor-mussies' people trying to allow them to have their own communities with their own laws within the greater mass of people. It will not work. It will create ghettoes and siege mentality of 'everyone-is-against-us' thinking. If you don't like what we offer - move on.

I doubt that any group of immigrants have been subjected to so much pressure.

Unlike the Vietnamese they are not seen as fleeing a repressive regime against whom our country fought personally and a lot of them are indisputably "different".

There are many in our society who are not prepared to wait a generation or two for them to change, they want the headscarf's off the women now, they want them eating bacon sandwiches and to stop taking religion seriously, like good Australians.

The jingoistic press (that darn liberal media again) has made them the enemy who are killing our troops in places far.

Divide people and sell newspapers and TV advertising time.

I doubt that any group of immigrants have been subjected to so much pressure.

Unlike the Vietnamese they are not seen as fleeing a repressive regime against whom our country fought personally and a lot of them are indisputably "different".

There are many in our society who are not prepared to wait a generation or two for them to change, they want the headscarf's off the women now, they want them eating bacon sandwiches and to stop taking religion seriously, like good Australians.

The jingoistic press (that darn liberal media again) has made them the enemy who are killing our troops in places far.

Divide people and sell newspapers and TV advertising time.

I know what you are saying, and agree with some of it.

But (isn't there always a but?) in UK it was not the first generation of immigrants that was the problem when coming from East Asia (Indian migrants) when there was trouble, and in Oz it wasn't the first generation Vietnamese that caused problems. It is the second or third generation of current youth, who feel disenfranchised, are out of work, who are DIFFERENT. And do not want to sink into the soup of the rest of us, but to remain as the fish-bones in that stew.

And in both UK and Oz the migrants now are not of the mass exodus boats of 1975-1985, nor the airlift of the East African Asians. These are small groups looking for a better life elsewhere - Iraqis who cannot fit into their new society, Irani and Afghani people who cannot find peace in the current regimes. But all carry some heavy baggage of religious observance that is contrary to the outlook of the countries they aim for. Quite frankly they would be better aiming for Malaysia / Indonesia, except that they would not receive the social benefits there that Australia offers, nor would there be organisations set up there to help them.

In UK the problem definitely lies with the second and third generation Pakistani-descent youth, not with the other immigrants we have had over the years - we could cope with the West Indian drug gangs in Manchester, Liverpool and London. We do not see the chinese population, nor the Jewish immigrants from the past 150 years and more. Nor to a great extent the Indians, although some of the gangs have an Indian element. Our next problem is the East European crims, Albanian, Croat, Serb, Russian.

In UK the problem definitely lies with the second and third generation Pakistani-descent youth

Maybe they resent becoming the bad guys, the <deleted> who are killing our troops who are trying to save their country?

Personally I believe the problems start in the school yard, minorities form gangs to protect themselves from locals and like the feeling of support and fellowship it gives them. Put a wannabe ayatollah into the mix and the real problems start.

Australians forget that the most devastating wave of immigrants started in 1778, the local populace still haven't recovered from it.

In UK the problem definitely lies with the second and third generation Pakistani-descent youth

Maybe they resent becoming the bad guys, the <deleted> who are killing our troops who are trying to save their country?

Personally I believe the problems start in the school yard, minorities form gangs to protect themselves from locals and like the feeling of support and fellowship it gives them. Put a wannabe ayatollah into the mix and the real problems start.

Australians forget that the most devastating wave of immigrants started in 1778, the local populace still haven't recovered from it.

And one of my ancestors could have been a part of that wave, but they hung him instead.

So I'm a pommie bastard and don't have to call my kids Bruce, or Brett, or Kylie.

They're all Taylah's and Cruz's now.

They're all Taylah's and Cruz's now.

And my grand-daughter is 'Belize', or Billy for short.

Poor kid.