Jatuporn Says Abhisit, Suthep 'Collude To Kill People'

[webfact]

CENSURE DEBATE

Jatuporn says Abhisit, Suthep 'collude to kill people'

By Kittipong Thavevong

The Nation

Opposition MP Jatuporn Prompan has held the prime minister and the deputy premier in charge of security affairs responsible for the deaths of at least 13 people during last year's political unrest.

He also accused Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban of interfering with the work of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI), whose investigators concluded that government security forces could have killed those people.

Speaking during the censure debate from late Thursday night until early Friday, the MP from the Pheu Thai Party said that political interference caused the cases to be delayed as the DSI referred those 13 cases to the police while the police said they were under the DSI's jurisdiction.

Jatuporn, who led last year's 10-week protest by the red shirts that led to the political turmoil, said that if those cases go to court, Abhisit and Suthep would be charged with "colluding to kill people" and could face death sentence if found guilty.

He held the two key Democrat Party figures responsible for the deaths in their capacity as the ruling politicians in charge of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which was established at the height of the violent political confrontation.

"Today the hand of the law may not be able to punish you, but the law of karma will be haunting you," he said.

Jatuporn, a key leader of the anti-government red shirt movement, spent more than three and a half hours grilling Abhisit and Suthep. He mostly read from copies of what he claimed to be results of findings by DSI investigators into the deaths of 13 people believed to be caused by soldiers. These included the cases of the Reuters news agency's Japanese photographer Hiroyuki Muramoto, Army Private Narongrit Sara, and three of the six people killed at Pathum Wanaram Temple after the protest was dispersed on May 19.

Ninety-one people were killed - 89 in Bangkok and two in the provinces - and some 2,000 others were injured during last year's unrest and riots.

The opposition MP also displayed large pictures of the 13 people killed, some of them dead bodies. At one point, he was protested by Democrat MPs for displaying the body of a teenage boy shot dead during the turmoil. Jatuporn said DSI investigators also concluded that the boy's death was suspected to be caused by soldiers manning a checkpoint near the protest site at the Ratchaprasong commercial area.

Jatuporn also suggested that certain senior Army figures tried to change the DSI's findings, which resulted in the DSI to announce later that the investigation results remained inconclusive after he had leaked the probe results to the media.

"Some people said that soldiers cannot be wrong and soldiers cannot kill the people. They want changes [to the original probe results] and there were changes," the opposition MP said.

He claimed that the changes in the DSI's probe results of 13 cases led to a delay in the investigation of 64 other cases. The 12 remaining deaths in Bangkok are suspected to be caused by red shirts, according to Jatuporn.

He said that he "felt happy to be able to ask for justice for the deceased" during the censure debate against Abhisit and Suthep.

Eight other Cabinet members also have faced the opposition's grilling.

After Jatuporn completed his speech shortly before 2 am, the meeting's chair, Apiwan Wiriyachai - who is also from the opposition Pheu Thai Party - asked the prime minister whether he would respond to Jatuporn's allegations immediately. Abhisit opted to do so the next morning on Friday, the last day of the censure debate.

The meeting's chair then declared the censure debate adjourned at 2 am and scheduled it to be resumed at 9 am on Friday.

-- The Nation 2011-03-18

[asiawatcher]

The problem with Jutaporn is Jutaporn! This motor mouth who incited civil unrest, propagated abstinence by mobs from rule of law and then condoned destruction of property and continues to hide behind parliamentary privilege, may well try to expose 13 of the 90+ deaths as being at the hands of soldiers. Trying to divert focus from the fact his mob by their actions caused all the deaths is his cowardly way of attacking , as being the best form of defense. Sadly he believes his own lies. He need some serious psychological assistance. Imagine this guy running Thailand?

[webfact]

PM denies Pheu Thai accusation he ordered killing of red shirts

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

At the censure debate last night, opposition MPs accused PM Abhisit Vejjajiva of ordering the killing of red-shirt protesters last year as well as orchestrating the arson attack on CentralWorld to justify the crackdown.

Abhisit and his deputy, Suthep Thaugsuban, denied the charges and instead put the blame on the red shirts.

"If I was told to order the killing [of red-shirt protesters], I wouldn't do it," Pheu Thai MP for Udon Thani, Vichian Khaokham, said, after claiming that Abhisit had been instructed by "an older person" to "order the killings".

"I would let the old person die first and return as a prime minister anew. Yet, you have the audacity to say your administration of the country is brilliant. Citizens hear this and feel like throwing up," Vichian said.

Abhisit rebutted the charges, saying: "There were no orders. If you know this, you must be able to identify who [gave such instructions]."

Vichian refused to name names, but was quick to add: "PM Abhisit insists that no instructions were given [to him], but the people know [the truth]."

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai MP Vorawat Auapinyakul claimed that the government had orchestrated the burning of CentralWorld to justify the 91 lives lost during the crackdown.

"You caused the burning. You brought in the military to help you … The military budget has ballooned to Bt240 billion. But the people can't put up with this anymore. People know you set up this government inside an army camp," Vorawat said.

He also claimed that a security guard at CentralWorld had shown him pictures of soldiers sitting around idly before the fire broke out. The MP said that the 417 CentralWorld staff members were told to evacuate the building, and 129 fire trucks were blocked from entering the area on the eve of the arson attack on May 19 last year. He claimed that soldiers disguised in plainclothes but still wearing army boots were seen entering the building, while other troops at the Ratchaprasong intersection sat around and did nothing.

"This is because one person told [soldiers] not to do anything," Vorawat said, pointing at Suthep.

Suthep retorted saying the MP was distorting the truth, that four arsonists had already been arrested and that five arrest warrants were out. "You are lying," the deputy premier said, adding that the people who set fire to the building were definitely not security officials.

Suthep also listed the timing of arson attacks in several other locations. "People who are listening must be wondering why PM Abhisit would want to burn the city down? It's [been set ablaze by] those who want to overthrow the government," he said, holding up photographs of men he claimed were behind the arson attacks, adding that they did not look like soldiers.

"These claims will have to be proved," he concluded, adding that the Army found allegations of them colluding with the government very offending.

However, Vichian continued arguing that the arson helped justify the bloody crackdown and allowed the government to continue clinging to power.

"Only people like Suthep don't know about the 'invisible hand', but the public knows about it," he said, in reference to the red-shirt movement's belief that someone more influential is controlling Abhisit and his government.

Vichian concluded his argument by telling Suthep and Abhisit: "You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

-- The Nation 2011-03-18

[jonclark]

As usual PTP comes up with half bakes lies and half truths,. It focuses on sound bites and care ful edits to manipulate events to its own liking. PTP focuses on the fire at Central World but convieniently forgets to mention the fires on Rama IV or at Center Point (Victory Monument). Fire in areas under total Red control which happened before the army moved in. The granade attacks on the Sky Train station, and the fact that Jatuporn dismissed the PM offer to dissolved the house last november if he called off his demonstration.

And then to cap it all they blame it on an 'invisable hand' - Please just <deleted> off PTP and get a life

Edited March 18, 2011 by jonclark

[pedro01]

"You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

Nice threat there...

[ianf]

"You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

Nice threat there...

I wish someone would put Jaturporn out of his misery.

[brahmburgers]

Someone send him some lip gloss cut with super glue. The guy really needs to have his mouth shut.

Whenever his lips flap, out come lies almost as good as his puppet master.

[timekeeper]

"Today the hand of the law may not be able to punish you, but the law of karma will be haunting you," Jatuporn said.

if that were true Jatuporn would be dead in a most gruesome manner already ...............

[timekeeper]

The problem with Jutaporn is Jutaporn! This motor mouth who incited civil unrest, propagated abstinence by mobs from rule of law and then condoned destruction of property and continues to hide behind parliamentary privilege, may well try to expose 13 of the 90+ deaths as being at the hands of soldiers. Trying to divert focus from the fact his mob by their actions caused all the deaths is his cowardly way of attacking , as being the best form of defense. Sadly he believes his own lies. He need some serious psychological assistance. Imagine this guy running Thailand?

agreed

the truth is that if the reds weren't there illegally and behaving in a violent, aggressive manner then there would have been no deaths at the hands of anyone

they constantly taunted the authorities with threats of violence, firing weapons and grenades indiscriminately, they killed soldiers and civilians

they celebrated the Thaksin paid for black mercenaries and no red leader ever denounced them or their deadly actions

they reds were asked to go home, they had months of warning signs that it was going to go bad in the end

they stayed and took their 500 baht, their choice

obviously they were stupid enough to believe that they could do as they pleased with no repercussions

som nom na.......

[timekeeper]

"You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

Nice threat there...

if Thaksin ever came back he would have to live in a nuclear bunker.............

[AleG]

It dawned on me, this people are ghouls; they had been feeding on the corpses of the people killed in the violence they incited.

In the name of power, money and their ego; I hope they'll never get to govern Thailand, now they send thinly veiled death threads, once in power there will be blood.

[Insight]

Jutaporn once again revealing what sort of character he and the red shirts really are.

Today should make for very interesting reading/watching (providing - fingers crossed - Abhisit & co have done their home work).

[timekeeper]

"You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

Nice threat there...

based on that message, who can blame Mark for hanging on to the British passport option?

if he gets voted out, and the reds and Thaksin get in, i suspect he won't be the only one looking for a new country to live in for his and his families own security

i remember well, the not so veiled threat Thaksin made against Brits living in Thailand when the British government cancelled his visa..........

[Insight]

"You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

Nice threat there...

based on that message, who can blame Mark for hanging on to the British passport option?

if he gets voted out, and the reds and Thaksin get in, i suspect he won't be the only one looking for a new country to live in for his and his families own security

i remember well, the not so veiled threat Thaksin made against Brits living in Thailand when the British government cancelled his visa..........

"Democracy" the so-called reds are fighting for? Nothing more than a power struggle, with lashings and lashings of revenge of on the top.

[Buchholz]

"If I was told to order the killing [of red-shirt protesters], I wouldn't do it," Pheu Thai MP for Udon Thani, Vichian Khaokham, said, after claiming that Abhisit had been instructed by "an older person" to "order the killings".

"I would let the old person die first and return as a prime minister anew. Yet, you have the audacity to say your administration of the country is brilliant. Citizens hear this and feel like throwing up," Vichian said.

Abhisit rebutted the charges, saying: "There were no orders. If you know this, you must be able to identify who [gave such instructions]."

Vichian refused to name names

btw, Vichian is an indicted Red Shirt Leader

Pheu Thai MP surrenders on terrorism charges

Pheu Thai MP Vichian Khaokham on Thursday surrendered himself to acknowledge his charges related to terrorism triggered by the red-shirt rally from April to May.

After reporting to the Department of Special Investigation, Vichian claimed parliamentary immunity to secure his temporary release.

He cited his hernia surgery as reason to postpone his surrender for more than three months.

DSI director general Tharit Pengdit said after notifying charges, the next step involving Vichian was to forward the investigative report for prosecution review.

Should the prosecutors decide to try him, the MP would have to undergo the remand hearing and his bail would be decided by the judicial review, he said.

The Nation / 2010-11-18

==========================================================================

Pheu Thai Party MP and Red Shirt Leader Vichian Khaokham (left) being interviewed last March.

[whybother]

Abhisit rebutted the charges, saying: "There were no orders. If you know this, you must be able to identify who [gave such instructions]."

Vichian refused to name names, but was quick to add: "PM Abhisit insists that no instructions were given [to him], but the people know [the truth]."

It was someone with a surname beginning with the letter ....

If the people know the truth, why can't he name names?

[Sparkles]

The problem with Jutaporn is Jutaporn! This motor mouth who incited civil unrest, propagated abstinence by mobs from rule of law and then condoned destruction of property and continues to hide behind parliamentary privilege, may well try to expose 13 of the 90+ deaths as being at the hands of soldiers. Trying to divert focus from the fact his mob by their actions caused all the deaths is his cowardly way of attacking , as being the best form of defense. Sadly he believes his own lies. He need some serious psychological assistance. Imagine this guy running Thailand?

This Jatuporn creature would be ,in most countries, in the slammer for inciting people to ignore the law and destroy but instead, if you watch local TV, we are treated daily to more of his offerings ad nauseum. Unfortuantly a large bulk of the population would like to se him as leader and the Poverty Doctor Thaksin return. Its shaping up as one big mess and the people who will suffer most are the poor themselves. When they burnt down Central it was the 5000b a month employees who found themselves without a job not the politicians.

[animatic]

"You will never get the chance to walk like ordinary people, because there are people waiting to take revenge. One day, when you are no longer in power as PM, how will you live?"

Nice threat there...

I wish someone would put Jaturporn out of his misery.

Isn't that more aptly out of our misery.

He certainly makes many people totally miserable.

So they make accusations, but aren't censure debates about showing proof and making arguments based on facts found and requiring responses that show facts. Not just an endless round of name calling, innuendo and 'I won't name names, but we all know who I mean' insinuation? This is not a shadow government trying to show alternate ways to operate the government, but a PR exercise to harm the political chances of their opponents.

If only PTP had the brains to act as a legitimate functional opposition and viable alternative in government we coud rest easier, but they are't, they can't, and they prove it daily in word and deed. So sad for Thailand. And most of all sad for the poor, who PTP purports to be supporting, because their repeatedly proven incompetence shows they are not capable of creating and managing programs to actually help the poor in the long term to better lives.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

It dawned on me, this people are ghouls; they had been feeding on the corpses of the people killed in the violence they incited.

In the name of power, money and their ego; I hope they'll never get to govern Thailand, now they send thinly veiled death threads, once in power there will be blood.

Remember that their actions directly, and I believe intentionally, lead to these deaths for exactly this reason. To use these dead as a cudgel to bring down the government any way they can. Same as they tried the year before. Even to the point of trying to say ANY dead found in Bangkok anywhere must have been killed by the military. And saying many just disappeared, and yet no family members have reported them missing...

There were many times the Red Leaders could have backed down and stopped the violence, they were give many face saving options, that they refused. They were CALLLING FOR THE VIOLENCE. Their only hope of successfully bringing down the government was through violence and eliciting a sense of revulsion in the average Thai for the army and government for the violence.

Lets not forget the Reds raiding the hospitals and stealing bodies to parade on the Red Stages to incite the public...ghouls and grave robbers.

The problem for the Reds is the media and communications structures of Thai public access have radically changed to allow much faster and more open information to be passed to more people in near real time, and this showed the Red Leaders to be malicious liars on such a regular basis, that it significantly undermined the false image they were trying to create.

As it had in the past, the army had shut down a public rally, but the motivations and the actions of both sides were much different now than they were in '73 and in the early 90's. This was obvious to the average Thai due tio greatly increased personal communications. The average middle class Bangkokian didn't respond as the Reds expected to the alleged provocations, but instead saw them for what they were, and attempt to return Bangkok to something resembling normality.

The Reds used a 20 year old communications mindset that didn't work. Things had changed, but their tactics didn't take any of that into account. Now the PTP is still attempting to make political hay with these deaths, but too many average Somchai citizens saw the whole charade unfold and asre not buying the lies as they might have back in the day. This is reflected in the several by-elections, and previous censure debate, that have gone on since the rally ended.

Edited March 18, 2011 by animatic

[Oberkommando]

ABAC Poll shows Peau Thai in a slight lead this week.

The end is nigh for the Democrats and look what we have in store for us in opposition!

[Oberkommando]

Their only hope of successfully bringing down the government was through violence

Or an election. Which is what it was all about.

[Buchholz]

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai MP Vorawat Auapinyakul claimed that the government had orchestrated the burning of CentralWorld to justify the 91 lives lost during the crackdown.

Vorawat (also Worawat) is yet another of the Pheu Thai Party brain trust...

back when he was a People Power Party serious thinker in Somchai's Cabinet...

It's one thing to give a phallus charm to your friend as a gift to wish him health and a happy family life. But it certainly is something else when your culture minister proposes that phallus symbols be made into a national souvenir, with an authenticity certificate to prove that it's "Thailand's pride."

Culture Minister Worawat Aue-apinyakul is determined to prove that he is an "innovative minister" by proposing that he will turn such local amulets as the Naga, the phallus symbol, buffaloes and even voodoo dolls into keychains for sale to tourists.

The Nation - October 2 , 2008

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2008/10/02/entry-2

Edited March 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[webfact]

Cabinet Defends Security Operations During 2010 Political Protests in Censure Debate

The Opposition attacked the government regarding its cruel security measures during the mass rally at the Ratchaprasong intersection last year which claimed 91 lives.

The government insisted it was not responsible for the deaths.

In response to the Opposition's claim that the government is to blame for the 91 deaths during the political unrest that unravelled between April and May last year, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva insisted that the government did not use unnecessary violence in dealing with the red-shirt rally in April and May 2010.

He said he did not accuse the red-shirt movement of terrorism, but said it was clear that an armed force was at work within the group of demonstrators, adding that his offer to dissolve the House was rejected by key members of the mass rally.

As for claims that the media had been manipulated, he explained that the government only used the media to keep members of the public informed and provided them with accurate information, and to relieve people's dissatisfaction with the paralyzed traffic situation caused by the protest.

Phue Thai's Phrae province's MP Worawat Eua-apinyakun showed photographs and video clips in which unidentified armed gunmen shot at Pathumwanaram Temple from the skytrain tracks. Six deaths were reported at the temple on May 19.

Worawat insisted that Central World was not torched by terrorists as claimed by the government, but actually military officers.

He claimed that the government even prevented fire fighters from putting out the blaze.

The Deputy Prime Minister in charge of national security, Suthep Thaugsuban played down Worawat's remark, saying police have already arrested four people involved in torching Central World and that the case and the Special Investigation Department have already filed charges against the accused arsonists.

He noted that the government did ask fire fighters to rush to the scene, but they were obstructed by the red-shirt protesters.

Suthep claimed the government did not orchestrate attempts to set fire to various structures in Bangkok as claimed by the Opposition, adding that the video clips were doctored.

Concerning the shooting of six people at Wat Pathumwanaram, Suthep insisted no military personnel were in the area at the time of the incident.

Meanwhile, red-shirt leader and Pheu Thai party-list MP Jatupon Prompan accused the premier and Suthep of involving the Army Forces in the massacre of the 83 red-shirt people.

He said that according to autopsy results and an order from the Army, military officers were on the skytrain tracks and shot rifles similar to an M16, the bullets of which were used to kill people at the Pathumwanaram Temple.

As for the death of a Japanese reporter, Jatupon said the autopsy indicated that the victim was killed by an AK-47 rifle was used by army soldiers.

During the four-hour debate, Jatupon came forth with a number of DSI autopsy reports to support his argument that the deaths of the red-shirt people were the result of soldiers' operations, which were ordered by Suthep Thaugsuban, who was the director of the Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situations.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva wished to delay his explanation about the issue until today as it was too late to clarify things at 2 A.M. in the morning.

Deputy Prime Ministry Suthep Thaugsuban is set to clarify the security operations this morning.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-18

[Oberkommando]

But it certainly is something else when your culture minister proposes that phallus symbols be made into a national souvenir, with an authenticity certificate to prove that it's "Thailand's pride."

About as embarrassing as an Oxford educated Prime Minister wearing protective amulets IMO.

[random]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

[Buchholz]

ABAC Poll shows Peau Thai in a slight lead this week.

Jatuporn yesterday

More polling...

54.2% of the respondents wanted to see MPs debating without distorting information or making groundless allegations.

59.8% of the respondents believed that there would still be offensive wordings in this censure debate

Asked for appropriate punishment, 46.1% of the respondents suggested that problematic MPs be removed from the meeting hall. 30.7% and 19.5% of the group said they should be stripped off their voting rights and have their pay cut respectively.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255403170004

[Buchholz]

But it certainly is something else when your culture minister proposes that phallus symbols be made into a national souvenir, with an authenticity certificate to prove that it's "Thailand's pride."

About as embarrassing as an Oxford educated Prime Minister wearing protective amulets IMO.

At least he's not a dick about it

[Pi Sek]

Their only hope of successfully bringing down the government was through violence

Or an election. Which is what it was all about.

If only it was, then I think the Reds would have more support than they do. Unfortunately the UDD faction of the Red Shirts decided it wasn't - twice. If they had decided otherwise, then we probably wouldn't be having these discussions or having to deal with emotional protesters, some of whom have had friends and relatives taken from them, being fired up every fortnight by individuals whose track record of telling the truth is even worse than Suthep's.

[Pi Sek]

What's embarrassing about a Buddhist wearing a Buddhist amulet?

[jonclark]

If Abhist did not order the killings, who did?

was abhisit in control or not? Did someone follow his orders or disobey his orders?

If he did not give the order who took it upon themselves to give the order?

In this matter the PM was in charge, he either admits he gave the decision, or he admits he was not in control of the situation, if he handed control to the army then let him say who in the armed forces gave the order, and what was the order?

Let's have some transparency here.

As for the centralworld issue, I am guessing none of us were actually in centralworld at the time so none of us are in a position to offer a factual decision on that matter.

I said before and I will say it again, at some point the dems will have themselves painted into a corner with their lies and will be left with nowhere to go other than to admit the truth or end up looking very foolish, lies and diversions soon get found out and leave the individual or group of individuals looking like what they are, liars.

Why must there have been an order. I doubt any such order [to kill protesters] was ever given or even contemplated being given. I would expect the instruction passed down, would have been along the lines of use reasonable and justifiable force and only fire, if fired apon. I would expect therefore that as the army were being shot at, having homemade bombs and grenades thrown at them with the intention to injury or kill soliders, then in this instance reasonable and justifiable force would includes shoot to kill and in such circumstances the army would have engaged using these criteria These are rules of engagement and all armies operate under them in all countries.

So no one gave the order, just the rules of engagement.

The only Liars here are PTP and Jatuporn. I spent three days watching the action unfold along rama IV road from Klong Toei intersection, then intention of elements of the people there was to kill the army, weapons both homemade and otherwise were also on display and i saw them being transported to the 'front line'. These people were organised and co-ordinated using walki talkies and phones to plan their moves / attacks. I also heard loud explosions which i presume were an array of bombs, grenades or firecrackers.