why do men go to the gym to keep in shape? why do men wear form fitting clothes to show off their gym body? why do men shave?

obviously they are asking to get raped.

contrary to a lot of beliefs, women wear make up or put on nice clothes mainly for their own benefit not to "prick tease" or attract men

Why do I go to the gym? To keep in shape, as you suggest. My doctor recommended it a few years ago as my cholesterol was building up.

I also go running at weekends with the local hash. Helps me keep in shape, also gives me a few free beers.

Form-fitting clothes? Do me a favour! Have you seen the average hash tee-shirt.

Why do I shave? 'Cos I would be unemployed if I had a beard down to my knees. Look at ObL - he had a beard and the US President sent troops to murder him. I wouldn't want that to happen to me.

(Also, when I was approaching puberty, I endured a long period of assault by our family doctor. I got over it.)

And why would that be?

You know as well as I, the original reason for the red lipstick and like I alluded to earlier, I am a shy little Irish, innocent Catholic boy, and I ain't repeating it here.

But there is nothing stopping yourself of course...................

Nope.

I'm not going to post anything that could be misunderstood and I have to apologise for, especially if the apology won't be taken seriously.

Can't see where any misunderstandings can come from, marketeers are very good at what they do, subliminal messaging is done throughout advertising, it is not an accident that female models stretch their belly button for obvious subliminal codes, similarly the animal kingdom uses mimicry and copy tactics for varying reasons, the marketeers saw the advantages of also doing so.

I would have no problem executing each and every brutal rapist who attacks women in unprovoked assaults. But, there is a big difference between assaulting some stranger, and a couple who are making out and the woman says no just just before they consumate the act. They are both rape, and both are wrong, but you can't deny there isn't a difference.

I would have no problem executing each and every brutal rapist who attacks women in unprovoked assaults.

As long as it is within the rule of law of the country involved, otherwise we would have the ambiguities of individual peoples opinion and look at the prejudices that provokes on TV alone.

But, there is a big difference between assaulting some stranger, and a couple who are making out and the woman says no just just before they consumate the act.

As I stated earlier, I believe there are more serious cases than others, but I do not differentiate between the damage done to the individual and the semi defence or almost denial of the act has to be treated with extreme caution. Because a couple are 'making out' does not mean both individuals want to have consensual sex, in any way shape or form. Attempted justification, even when followed by admitting it is wrong, is hardly a defence.

They are both rape, and both are wrong, but you can't deny there isn't a difference.

Try asking the individual involved, the only difference is maybe the violence committed.

I wonder if people on here have been put in the position of 'making out', and one individual then decides not to go all the way, how they reacted to the reverse in fortunes?

I wonder if people on here have been put in the position of 'making out', and one individual then decides not to go all the way, how they reacted to the reverse in fortunes?

Well, with me I didn't go through with the act of having sex because I didn't have a condom, and the girl was pissed off and wouldn't date me after that. I've also been with women who WANTED rough sex, and because that is not my style we also broke up. It's a strange world and I have come to realize that there is no way I'm ever going to understand or change it. I also had a friend at university who had been having sex with his girl friend for months. Then, one evening he made the mistake of having sex with her in her parents living room and the parents came home early and caught them. Out of embarrassment the girl cried rape and the young man went to jail.

This thread is a wonderful lesson in ancient history. Reading some of the posts is like travelling back to Neanderthal times. The amount of self-justification that some of you straight boys come out with to justify yourselves is remarkable

Very snide remark, isn't it?

There is no 'self-justification' here. Just several normal guys trying to put over the point that provocative dress is designed to provoke and does just that - provoke.

We have not in any way condoned any rape, nor have we followed Ken Clarke's stupid statement that some rapes are more serious than others.

What we have tried to put across is that the circumstances of a rape can vary greatly - the serial rapist does not normally need the provocation of a certain style of dress to set him off (although there are cases of this happening).

But the one-off may be due to a combination of factors, one of which is the provocative dress / manner of the girl/woman involved. Obviously there may be other factors such as drink, allowed heavy petting and so on, which raise the level of excitement of the man to a stage where he cannot stop, even if, under other, less provocative circumstances, he would be better able to control himself.

This is only a single section of a very complicated, many-facetted problem. But the Canadian policeman, in my opinion, was just trying to reduce the risk that women run, by saying think a little and try to see where your actions may lead.

The paragraph marked in red is an exercise in self justification. If he 'cannot stop' the best solution is to have a wank. If women run a risk by wearing a specific set of clothes that inflame men might I suggest that it's the men that have the problem rather than the women.

The paragraph marked in red is an exercise in self justification. If he 'cannot stop' the best solution is to have a wank. If women run a risk by wearing a specific set of clothes that inflame men might I suggest that it's the men that have the problem rather than the women.

I don't think anyone IS arguing that fact. It IS the man's problem when he can't control himself in any situation. Women can dress the way they want, say what they want and go where they want. Nobody is stopping them. All a few of us are saying is there are risks involved with whatever we CHOOSE to do. There just happen to be different risks between men and woman, and we should be aware of those risks before we do anything. Women can get away with many things that might get me in trouble... but most don't concern rape.

And why would that be?

You know as well as I, the original reason for the red lipstick and like I alluded to earlier, I am a shy little Irish, innocent Catholic boy, and I ain't repeating it here.

But there is nothing stopping yourself of course...................

Nope.

I'm not going to post anything that could be misunderstood and I have to apologise for, especially if the apology won't be taken seriously.

Can't see where any misunderstandings can come from, marketeers are very good at what they do, subliminal messaging is done throughout advertising, it is not an accident that female models stretch their belly button for obvious subliminal codes, similarly the animal kingdom uses mimicry and copy tactics for varying reasons, the marketeers saw the advantages of also doing so.

But it isn't subliminal is it.

What is the most basic function of mankind, what is the basic function of any living creature for that matter?

Please explain, a woman wearing a mini and boob tube is asking to be raped?

He didn't SAY a woman is asking to be raped if she wears sexy clothing. He said sexy clothing is designed to be provocative... and it is. Otherwise a woman wouldn't wear it. Baggy shorts and floppy sweater is much more comfortable. Why do women wear high heals? I can't imagine a more uncomfortable piece of footwear. But, high heals DO make a woman's walk more attractive.

And, for that matter, why do men dress up in a suit for going out in the evening? The obvious answer is because they want to look good.

The problem lies with the fact that when you are sending out signals then those signals go out to EVERYONE and not just to a chosen few.

He didn't SAY a woman is asking to be raped if she wears sexy clothing. He said sexy clothing is designed to be provocative... and it is. Otherwise a woman wouldn't wear it.

To provoke what exactly? Perhaps they wear it to feel good, make themselves feel better, possibly even attract a mate, 'Maslows' basic needs kicking in here, but nowhere does it read that they are provoking anything else.

As you suggest, certain clothing highlights certain attributes, that is not provocative, that is using your skill sets to there best advantage.

Wearing heels may well send out signals, but if you think those signals are to provoke rather than attract, you are in the mix of a generation that is several time zones outside recent generations, or just desperately trying to find reasons of justification that is plainly a straw man argument.

To provoke what exactly? Did you miss this one Ian?

To provoke what exactly? Did you miss this one Ian?

I didn't miss anything, Mossy. I read everything slowly and try not to make assumptions of what others are thinking. However, after enough replies on any topic it is easy enough to make assumptions that might hold some facts. Some people just want to bicker over anything and if they don't like someone they won't accept anything that person says even though it may be true, and place their feelings ahead of facts. They also take one item out of an essay and quote it out of context.

To provoke what exactly? Did you miss this one Ian?

I didn't miss anything, Mossy. I read everything slowly and try not to make assumptions of what others are thinking. However, after enough replies on any topic it is easy enough to make assumptions that might hold some facts. Some people just want to bicker over anything and if they don't like someone they won't accept anything that person says even though it may be true, and place their feelings ahead of facts. They also take one item out of an essay and quote it out of context.

You were still replying up until a couple of posts ago. It appears your default position when in a corner is to revert to 'You don't like me', something I have categorically told you previously is not true, this response smacks of the 80% of females on Samui are in the pay for play game, I seem to remember a similar tactic there.

I have quoted nothing out of context, or show me where I have.

To provoke what exactly? Did you miss this one Ian?

I didn't miss anything, Mossy. I read everything slowly and try not to make assumptions of what others are thinking. However, after enough replies on any topic it is easy enough to make assumptions that might hold some facts. Some people just want to bicker over anything and if they don't like someone they won't accept anything that person says even though it may be true, and place their feelings ahead of facts. They also take one item out of an essay and quote it out of context.

You were still replying up until a couple of posts ago. It appears your default position when in a corner is to revert to 'You don't like me', something I have categorically told you previously is not true, this response smacks of the 80% of females on Samui are in the pay for play game, I seem to remember a similar tactic there.

I have quoted nothing out of context, or show me where I have.

I wasn't referring to you personally, Mossy. I was referring to your post that I didn't comment on. I've pretty much stated all I can on how I feel about rape, and there's nothing more to say. I don't have a clue whether you have any feelings about me one way or another, but I DO know there are few on thaivisa that don't like my life style. I frankly don't care. I don't like double standards either.

I'm a bit foggy on what I said on that Samui topic so long ago, but if my memory serves me well enough I DID comment that 80% of females working there are in the service trade. By service trade I did NOT mean P4P hookers. I thought I made that clear. Service trade includes all staff brought in to handle tourism. That includes hotel workers, cooks, waitresses and maids... as well as a "few" P4P ladies. Actually, I wouldn't travel to Samui with the intention of picking up a woman for the night. I bring my own with me if I want a companion. By comparison to other Thai tourist destinations, the hookers on Samui are few and far between. At least they were about 5 years ago when I was last there.

There are many topics that I just give up on. It has nothing to do with what people think of me. There just isn't any more I can say without repeating myself. If someone brings up a valid point then I'll discuss it, but I don't enjoy bickering. There are a couple of topics on the General open forum that have gone on far too long and they've wandered off in so many different directions that it's a waste of time bother replying.

Lord, this whole thread is a worry............

How not to answer a question 101

What's a "question 101"?

What's a "question 101"?

99 plus 2 equals...................

I wasn't referring to you personally, Mossy. I was referring to your post that I didn't comment on. I've pretty much stated all I can on how I feel about rape, and there's nothing more to say. I don't have a clue whether you have any feelings about me one way or another,

OK, but you have jumped fron a debate before claiming I didn't like you.

I'm a bit foggy on what I said on that Samui topic so long ago, but if my memory serves me well enough I DID comment that 80% of females working there are in the service trade. By service trade I did NOT mean P4P hookers. I thought I made that clear. Service trade includes all staff brought in to handle tourism. That includes hotel workers, cooks, waitresses and maids... as well as a "few" P4P ladies.

Probably needs a refresher Ian.

There are many topics that I just give up on. It has nothing to do with what people think of me. There just isn't any more I can say without repeating myself. If someone brings up a valid point then I'll discuss it, but I don't enjoy bickering. There are a couple of topics on the General open forum that have gone on far too long and they've wandered off in so many different directions that it's a waste of time bother replying.

But you were responding and the valid point was the 'provocation', you never answered it.

but I DO know there are few on thaivisa that don't like my life style. I frankly don't care. I don't like double standards either.

Yes Ian, it's your life style that makes me pick apart your views on Catholicism, female provoked rape and your inability to debate your statements, even by your own grandiose plaudit of being the master debater.

Good Luck with your angling

Have only skipped through the last page of this "debate".

Just wondering when we'll see Jim Jam March...? -

Head teacher appeal to school run 'pyjama parents'

Personally hope the Canadian copper responsible for the original comments hasn't received too much flack for his accidental meander into the world of common sense...

Have only skipped through the last page of this "debate".

Just wondering when we'll see Jim Jam March...? -

Head teacher appeal to school run 'pyjama parents'

Personally hope the Canadian copper responsible for the original comments hasn't received too much flack for his accidental meander into the world of common sense...

Can't get through to that link - in fact the whole of TV seems difficult today.

Has it anything to do with sluts or marches?

It's gotta be the sluts.

dam_n cock-teasing, feminazi, misandrist harlots make life a misery for all red-blooded men.

Have only skipped through the last page of this "debate".

Just wondering when we'll see Jim Jam March...? -

Head teacher appeal to school run 'pyjama parents'

Personally hope the Canadian copper responsible for the original comments hasn't received too much flack for his accidental meander into the world of common sense...

Still can't get through. I get the URL - it's a BBC thing.

Maybe Vietnam has blocked the BeeB? And why not? The CNN coverage of the Royal Wedding was far superior to that of the BBC,at least the version of the BeeB that we get in VN.

It's gotta be the sluts.

dam_n cock-teasing, feminazi, misandrist harlots make life a misery for all red-blooded men.

maybe its the BBC hating vietnamese feminazi sluts blocking the internet.

It's gotta be the sluts.

dam_n cock-teasing, feminazi, misandrist harlots make life a misery for all red-blooded men.

maybe its the BBC-hating vietnamese feminazi sluts blocking the internet.

You could be right, but last night I could get neither BBC World nor CNN on the Telly.

Thought it might have something to do with the Vietnamese elections, but also ESPN and Star Sports were unavailable.

Maybe I haven't paid my cable rental

It's gotta be the sluts.

dam_n cock-teasing, feminazi, misandrist harlots make life a misery for all red-blooded men.

Not really. As mentioned, haven't really read through the previous posts in this debate, but what people wear is really up to them. What risks they take on for what they wear is their decision too. Frankly IMO these protests signify the biggest problem in all societies - a complete lack of personal responsibility. "It's my right to do what the hell I want, when I want, and if anything happens to me while doing it, it's societies fault - not mine."

If my house gets burgled while I'm out and it transpires that I left it unlocked, would I be considered somewhat responsible? Of course I would.

People are warned repeatedly to keep valuables out of sight in cities to keep muggers at bay. Everybody heeds this as good advice. In a perfect world such muggers wouldn't exist, but most people know this simply isn't a reality and therefore take measures to protect themselves.

"Business" at Strangeways prison is not going to dry up any time soon. There are bad people in the world. Sorry to be the one to break this to you.

If I follow in the Canadian coppers footsteps and give this advice to my children, do I also deserve to be condemned to the depths of hell as he has?

If so, see you there. At least back in reality the people taking this advice should stay a bit safer.

It's gotta be the sluts.

dam_n cock-teasing, feminazi, misandrist harlots make life a misery for all red-blooded men.

Not really. As mentioned, haven't really read through the previous posts in this debate, but what people wear is really up to them. What risks they take on for what they wear is their decision too. Frankly IMO these protests signify the biggest problem in all societies - a complete lack of personal responsibility. "It's my right to do what the hell I want, when I want, and if anything happens to me while doing it, it's societies fault - not mine."

If my house gets burgled while I'm out and it transpires that I left it unlocked, would I be considered somewhat responsible? Of course I would.

People are warned repeatedly to keep valuables out of sight in cities to keep muggers at bay. Everybody heeds this as good advice. In a perfect world such muggers wouldn't exist, but most people know this simply isn't a reality and therefore take measures to protect themselves.

"Business" at Strangeways prison is not going to dry up any time soon. There are bad people in the world. Sorry to be the one to break this to you.

If I follow in the Canadian coppers footsteps and give this advice to my children, do I also deserve to be condemned to the depths of hell as he has?

If so, see you there. At least back in reality the people taking this advice should stay a bit safer.

As to your first sentence (Not really), I was making a tongue-in-cheek comment on a side issue. As for the rest of your post...hear hear. That is exactly what some of us have been saying with regard to the OP.

It's a sad fact of life.......sure it would be better if would-be rapists had a wank instead (Endure), but the reality is that SOME men do not control themselves. Taking that reality into account, what's wrong with advising women to reduce the risk?

Travel to (some parts of) Brazil, don't flaunt your wealth when walking around the favellas, or risk having your earings cut from your ears.

BTW...a mini and boob tube is also a specific style of dress that is actually designed to be provocative.

Please explain, a woman wearing a mini and boob tube is asking to be raped?

Not at all. Patsy starts - a woman where i live can wear what she wants and feels good in. Whether it is jeans and a t shirt like me or a whatever.

We had a good fun day out in Geneva a few years ago - I wore a mini and a boob tuub and there was no mention of me being a whore. especially as it slipped off cos i have no tits---!!!!

But that was between friends.

- a complete lack of personal responsibility. "It's my right to do what the hell I want, when I want, and if anything happens to me while doing it, it's societies fault - not mine."

So if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, does it matter if you are wearing a burqha, maxi and cardigan or a mini and boob tube?

I would suggest you read the %ages posted by sbk regardind who, where and when and no it is not their fault.

Maybe Vietnam has blocked the BeeB? And why not? The CNN coverage of the Royal Wedding was far superior to that of the BBC,at least the version of the BeeB that we get in VN.

Do you get that horrid watered down BBC World in VN? It's a disgraceful outfit that gives the real Beeb an undeserved poor reputation.

- a complete lack of personal responsibility. "It's my right to do what the hell I want, when I want, and if anything happens to me while doing it, it's societies fault - not mine."

So if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, does it matter if you are wearing a burqha, maxi and cardigan or a mini and boob tube?

I would suggest you read the %ages posted by sbk regardind who, where and when and no it is not their fault.

Never mind mossy, sometimes facts are overridden by one's own personal beliefs, and no amount of logic or facts will sway the closed mind. I gave up quite some time ago.

Not really. As mentioned, haven't really read through the previous posts in this debate, but what people wear is really up to them. What risks they take on for what they wear is their decision too. Frankly IMO these protests signify the biggest problem in all societies - a complete lack of personal responsibility. "It's my right to do what the hell I want, when I want, and if anything happens to me while doing it, it's societies fault - not mine."

I assume these are the words of those men who choose to rape? Who lacks personal responsibility? A woman who chooses to wear the clothes she wants or a man who thinks that her choice of clothes gives him permission to rape her. Self justification writ large.

Maybe Vietnam has blocked the BeeB? And why not? The CNN coverage of the Royal Wedding was far superior to that of the BBC,at least the version of the BeeB that we get in VN.

Do you get that horrid watered down BBC World in VN? It's a disgraceful outfit that gives the real Beeb an undeserved poor reputation.

Vietnam buys a lot of it's cable channels from TRUE (Thailand), who have agreements not to 'sell-on' such channels, but ignore this. Every so often a channel disappears (AXN, Turner Classic Movies, MGM are recent cases) but the Vietnamese still do not seem to want to develop their own larger network. They have a dozen or so VN channels, including a couple of shopping channels, but that is it.

For me, no problem. I used to be in Saudi before they introduced television, then sat through their single channel, their two channels and so on as the years rolled by.

And Libyan TV, with Muammar giving readings from his little Green Book every night at eight.

Nigerian TV had a lot of black South African singers on it.

In the UAE Abu Dhabi TV had horse racing morning, noon and night.

Astro in Malaysia is quite good, used to get the South African sports channels.

Philippines TV has a lot of local language channels, some of which are reminiscent of Thai soaps.

HK and Singapore have the usual cheapo channels, nothing very interesting.

So I stick with the constant repeats on Australian Network, and go out for a drink.