Rubber Trees

[Boeing757]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

The you are being ripped off!!

44.59b last Thursday for Key Yang in Mukdahan.

Regards

Clive

[how241]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

The you are being ripped off!!

44.59b last Thursday for Key Yang in Mukdahan.

Regards

Clive

Do they test the water content when you sell to them? If so, what method do they use to test the water content ?

[Boeing757]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

The you are being ripped off!!

44.59b last Thursday for Key Yang in Mukdahan.

Regards

Clive

Do they test the water content when you sell to them? If so, what method do they use to test the water content ?

No test for water.

The price was for unseen Kee.

Two weeks of rubber in sacks dropped off on 20 September. Left overnight.

Sealed bid envelopes opened at midday 21st and paid out in cash.

For information, these are the prices paid for similar amounts this year.

12/1/55 =. ราคา 50.55

7/2/55 = ราคา 67.62

14/7/55= ราคา40.89

21/8/55= ราคา44.59

Clive

[jamescollister]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

The you are being ripped off!!

44.59b last Thursday for Key Yang in Mukdahan.

Regards

Clive

Do they test the water content when you sell to them? If so, what method do they use to test the water content ?

Feel and look, guessing water content is what it is all about. If you are good you make money, bad and you lose. Jim

[Boeing757]

No test for water.

These prices are for "unseen" Kee Yang.

Two weeks of Kee dropped off in sacks on 22 September, and left overnight.

Sealed envelopes opened at midday the next day and paid out in cash.

For information these are the prices paid this year.

12/1/55 = ราคา 50.55

7/2/55 = ราคา 67.62

14/7/55= ราคา 40.89

21/8/55= ราคา 44.59

Clive

[Mosha]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

The you are being ripped off!!

44.59b last Thursday for Key Yang in Mukdahan.

Regards

Clive

Is that at the gate, at the buyer or further up the chain?

[Boeing757]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

The you are being ripped off!!

44.59b last Thursday for Key Yang in Mukdahan.

Regards

Clive

Is that at the gate, at the buyer or further up the chain?

Local (private) market in village close by.

I do not really know if it is a Government Auction or not.

Quite small really. Total kee about 30 tons per fortnight.

Clive

[jamescollister]

No test for water.

These prices are for "unseen" Kee Yang.

Two weeks of Kee dropped off in sacks on 22 September, and left overnight.

Sealed envelopes opened at midday the next day and paid out in cash.

For information these are the prices paid this year.

12/1/55 = ราคา 50.55

7/2/55 = ราคา 67.62

14/7/55= ราคา 40.89

21/8/55= ราคา 44.59

Clive

Again, as said in an earlier post, I can make cup the same way as sheet. It will have 1 kilo DRC and 3 kilos of water, but will be soft cup. No one will buy that sight unseen.

Think they make the bid on a certain rubber/'water content, then when weighing they inspect the cup. If it has stones or injected with water or acid has been use to congeal the rubber with the water retained, they reject it.

On the price front got 37 Baht for day old cup yesterday, crepe buyers. Jim

[Boeing757]

I have just done some digging for information and learned that this is not a Government Auction at all. It is a private Co-Op.

Maybe the reason the Kee is bought unseen is historical.

If in the past no stones have been added or chemicals injected, the buyers are happy to accept that this will always be the case?

Clive

[jamescollister]

I have just done some digging for information and learned that this is not a Government Auction at all. It is a private Co-Op.

Maybe the reason the Kee is bought unseen is historical.

If in the past no stones have been added or chemicals injected, the buyers are happy to accept that this will always be the case?

Clive

Buyers come and go out this way, Thais will try it on no matter. If it is a co op you have to be a member and if caught cheating you would be out and very unpopular with the other members. Jim

[cobbler]

Sold some Kee Yang at 34 Baht. That's down on last week

Mosha ,try another buyer.Also ,weigh yourself before you go and them be sure to weigh yourself on there scales at the shop.Sometimes they offer a better price but they pick it up by cheating with there scales..

By the way ,what price was mats?Hope it's not what I think it was ,coz if it is ,tomorrow we will be down too.We always drop the day after you do.

Cheers Cobbler.

Personally I reckon,forget it untill this PM is out.

Edited September 25, 2012 by cobbler

[Mosha]

Why is getting the full story like pulling teeth? 555 The Kee Yang was wet.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Mosha

[IsaanAussie]

Hi all,

A quick question for any / all of you.... What price are you paying for a full rice bag of dried chicken manure? I've been weaning our area rubber planters (including the missus...) off chemical fertilizers and we're now starting to use chicken poo instead. We were quoted 55 baht per bag and one bag for 3 trees.... That's a whopping 146,000 baht price tag.... ouch. Any other price quotes would be well appreciated. Thx in advance.

Now I have a question for you "rubbery figures" out there. What is the nutrient requirement for your rubber trees and at what time of year should it be applied?

The reason is I am making pellitised fertiliser using my pig manure compost as the base. Minerals are added to reach the nutrient levels needed. The compost has some NPK and minor component values as well as being the filler material which is 100% organic matter.

At round the 450 baht per bag is appears very doable if anyone is interested. Result needed, non chemical but same result or better, and obviously cost reduction.

[scotbeve]

Hi all,

A quick question for any / all of you.... What price are you paying for a full rice bag of dried chicken manure? I've been weaning our area rubber planters (including the missus...) off chemical fertilizers and we're now starting to use chicken poo instead. We were quoted 55 baht per bag and one bag for 3 trees.... That's a whopping 146,000 baht price tag.... ouch. Any other price quotes would be well appreciated. Thx in advance.

Now I have a question for you "rubbery figures" out there. What is the nutrient requirement for your rubber trees and at what time of year should it be applied?

The reason is I am making pellitised fertiliser using my pig manure compost as the base. Minerals are added to reach the nutrient levels needed. The compost has some NPK and minor component values as well as being the filler material which is 100% organic matter.

At round the 450 baht per bag is appears very doable if anyone is interested. Result needed, non chemical but same result or better, and obviously cost reduction.

Hi Issarn Aussie,

As in any farm, the nutrients levels depend on the soil quality and it's own natural levels. The chemical addicts can go too far at times, why not make a variety of nutrients levels starting at your area after consulting the sensible locals and their needs?

[thaiguzzi]

Jim,

i still think you do'nt get how the majority "do" their key yang and sell it. Here's an easy example; my missus personally cuts 505 trees directly behind our house. Over a fortnight, they will produce, on average, during the rainy season, depending on rainfall times and hence cuts, 90-120 kilos of key yang. On AVERAGE she will use 4 litres of water/formic to congeal per session. Say each session is 12 kilos, then 4 litres of water/formic is mixed in with this. To get 5 litres of water/formic mix, the ratio is 4.75 litres of water to 0.25 litres of pure formic. NOT sulphuric.

When she sells at auction, she is always complimented on the cleanliness and firmness of her wet cup (steady there - i'm not talking tits again!).

Mike.

[jamescollister]

Jim,

i still think you do'nt get how the majority "do" their key yang and sell it. Here's an easy example; my missus personally cuts 505 trees directly behind our house. Over a fortnight, they will produce, on average, during the rainy season, depending on rainfall times and hence cuts, 90-120 kilos of key yang. On AVERAGE she will use 4 litres of water/formic to congeal per session. Say each session is 12 kilos, then 4 litres of water/formic is mixed in with this. To get 5 litres of water/formic mix, the ratio is 4.75 litres of water to 0.25 litres of pure formic. NOT sulphuric.

When she sells at auction, she is always complimented on the cleanliness and firmness of her wet cup (steady there - i'm not talking tits again!).

Mike.

]Understand what you are trying to explain Mike, but this is my job and how I make my living. Excepting crepe [another story ] Cup is sold and bought by DRC, no matter how the buyers are explaining it. To most rural Thais the mention of percentages is like talking to them about quantum mechanics.

It is the DRC that is turned into TSR rubber, you can not buy water and make a profit. The buyers are buying the rubber content, now some will say they are paying X amount per kilo, but pay minus water content.

If you see a Government buy and they post the cup price, that will be DRC, if you compare that price with your price you will see the amount deducted for water content

.

Today's wholesale cup lump price according to the Thai rubber association is 78 Baht a kilo. Your buyers sell to them and companies like them. Take away the costs and profits for the middle men and profits for the big boys and you have a good idea of the DRC local price, deduct your price from the dry rubber price and that will tell you how much has been deducted for water content. Makes no difference how it's wrapped up, it's the real rubber content that sets the price. Jim

[how241]

Jim,

i still think you do'nt get how the majority "do" their key yang and sell it. Here's an easy example; my missus personally cuts 505 trees directly behind our house. Over a fortnight, they will produce, on average, during the rainy season, depending on rainfall times and hence cuts, 90-120 kilos of key yang. On AVERAGE she will use 4 litres of water/formic to congeal per session. Say each session is 12 kilos, then 4 litres of water/formic is mixed in with this. To get 5 litres of water/formic mix, the ratio is 4.75 litres of water to 0.25 litres of pure formic. NOT sulphuric.

When she sells at auction, she is always complimented on the cleanliness and firmness of her wet cup (steady there - i'm not talking tits again!).

Mike.

]Understand what you are trying to explain Mike, but this is my job and how I make my living. Excepting crepe [another story ] Cup is sold and bought by DRC, no matter how the buyers are explaining it. To most rural Thais the mention of percentages is like talking to them about quantum mechanics.

It is the DRC that is turned into TSR rubber, you can not buy water and make a profit. The buyers are buying the rubber content, now some will say they are paying X amount per kilo, but pay minus water content.

If you see a Government buy and they post the cup price, that will be DRC, if you compare that price with your price you will see the amount deducted for water content

.

Today's wholesale cup lump price according to the Thai rubber association is 78 Baht a kilo. Your buyers sell to them and companies like them. Take away the costs and profits for the middle men and profits for the big boys and you have a good idea of the DRC local price, deduct your price from the dry rubber price and that will tell you how much has been deducted for water content. Makes no difference how it's wrapped up, it's the real rubber content that sets the price. Jim

Thanks for your info. Being that the percent of rubber/water is so important, how do the buyers determine the water/rubber content before they buy ?? or do they just take their "Best Guess" ?? I have read about drying a small sample in a oven but surely that takes too much time. Thanks again for your info.

[jamescollister]

Jim,

i still think you do'nt get how the majority "do" their key yang and sell it. Here's an easy example; my missus personally cuts 505 trees directly behind our house. Over a fortnight, they will produce, on average, during the rainy season, depending on rainfall times and hence cuts, 90-120 kilos of key yang. On AVERAGE she will use 4 litres of water/formic to congeal per session. Say each session is 12 kilos, then 4 litres of water/formic is mixed in with this. To get 5 litres of water/formic mix, the ratio is 4.75 litres of water to 0.25 litres of pure formic. NOT sulphuric.

When she sells at auction, she is always complimented on the cleanliness and firmness of her wet cup (steady there - i'm not talking tits again!).

Mike.

]Understand what you are trying to explain Mike, but this is my job and how I make my living. Excepting crepe [another story ] Cup is sold and bought by DRC, no matter how the buyers are explaining it. To most rural Thais the mention of percentages is like talking to them about quantum mechanics.

It is the DRC that is turned into TSR rubber, you can not buy water and make a profit. The buyers are buying the rubber content, now some will say they are paying X amount per kilo, but pay minus water content.

If you see a Government buy and they post the cup price, that will be DRC, if you compare that price with your price you will see the amount deducted for water content

.

Today's wholesale cup lump price according to the Thai rubber association is 78 Baht a kilo. Your buyers sell to them and companies like them. Take away the costs and profits for the middle men and profits for the big boys and you have a good idea of the DRC local price, deduct your price from the dry rubber price and that will tell you how much has been deducted for water content. Makes no difference how it's wrapped up, it's the real rubber content that sets the price. Jim

Thanks for your info. Being that the percent of rubber/water is so important, how do the buyers determine the water/rubber content before they buy ?? or do they just take their "Best Guess" ?? I have read about drying a small sample in a oven but surely that takes too much time. Thanks again for your info.

It really is a art, you guess the water content add 10% more you re on a winner. Guy down the road ups his price and shaves his profit. Everyone wants to buy and competition is fierce. to the point where you buy not on what it is woth today but what you think it ill be worth tomorrow or next week, then buyers miscalculate and go broke.That's why we are not buying this year. Unlike the big 2 weekly buyers we and others are everyday buyers and need a bigger profit per kilo because we buy less, buy everyday, convenience.The big buyers make there money on volume, some work on less than a Baht a kilo after costs.

Government buyers work from he auction price, it's a dog eat dog world at the moment, no one knows what the market will be tomorrow. Jim

[scotbeve]

Jim, i still think you do'nt get how the majority "do" their key yang and sell it. Here's an easy example; my missus personally cuts 505 trees directly behind our house. Over a fortnight, they will produce, on average, during the rainy season, depending on rainfall times and hence cuts, 90-120 kilos of key yang. On AVERAGE she will use 4 litres of water/formic to congeal per session. Say each session is 12 kilos, then 4 litres of water/formic is mixed in with this. To get 5 litres of water/formic mix, the ratio is 4.75 litres of water to 0.25 litres of pure formic. NOT sulphuric. When she sells at auction, she is always complimented on the cleanliness and firmness of her wet cup (steady there - i'm not talking tits again!). Mike.

]Understand what you are trying to explain Mike, but this is my job and how I make my living. Excepting crepe [another story ] Cup is sold and bought by DRC, no matter how the buyers are explaining it. To most rural Thais the mention of percentages is like talking to them about quantum mechanics. It is the DRC that is turned into TSR rubber, you can not buy water and make a profit. The buyers are buying the rubber content, now some will say they are paying X amount per kilo, but pay minus water content. If you see a Government buy and they post the cup price, that will be DRC, if you compare that price with your price you will see the amount deducted for water content . Today's wholesale cup lump price according to the Thai rubber association is 78 Baht a kilo. Your buyers sell to them and companies like them. Take away the costs and profits for the middle men and profits for the big boys and you have a good idea of the DRC local price, deduct your price from the dry rubber price and that will tell you how much has been deducted for water content. Makes no difference how it's wrapped up, it's the real rubber content that sets the price. Jim

Thanks for your info. Being that the percent of rubber/water is so important, how do the buyers determine the water/rubber content before they buy ?? or do they just take their "Best Guess" ?? I have read about drying a small sample in a oven but surely that takes too much time. Thanks again for your info.

It really is a art, you guess the water content add 10% more you re on a winner. Guy down the road ups his price and shaves his profit. Everyone wants to buy and competition is fierce. to the point where you buy not on what it is woth today but what you think it ill be worth tomorrow or next week, then buyers miscalculate and go broke.That's why we are not buying this year. Unlike the big 2 weekly buyers we and others are everyday buyers and need a bigger profit per kilo because we buy less, buy everyday, convenience.The big buyers make there money on volume, some work on less than a Baht a kilo after costs. Government buyers work from he auction price, it's a dog eat dog world at the moment, no one knows what the market will be tomorrow. Jim

Jim,

In our area, we are planning to do just this for up to 10,000 / day.... Yes, I know how much money must stay in the bank of course. I've spoken to some established farmers / buyers and they have worked on 15 to 50 satang / kg profits for quite some time.

[jamescollister]

Scot

Yep it's a cut throat business. Last year we had a buyer from Phuket, he would rent the factory for the day and pay us 1 Baht a kilo.. He worked on 50 Satang a kilo after costs.

He is not buying here this year, margins are just too small to cover the transport. Jim

[glennb6]

Scot,

50 satang profit margin per kg, if 40b/kg to purchase, you're going to hang hundreds of thousands of baht at risk for 1-1.25% gross profit margin !?!?!?? Blow a tire, loose a few kg to theft, or oops just about anywhere and you're hosed. Yea, if you throw enough money into it you could make some back but there's got to be a more efficient use of capital than chasing a 1-1.25% return.

Mike,

with all this talk of wet cups, I'll be in my room (you lucky dog)

[jamescollister]

Scot,

50 satang profit margin per kg, if 40b/kg to purchase, you're going to hang hundreds of thousands of baht at risk for 1-1.25% gross profit margin !?!?!?? Blow a tire, loose a few kg to theft, or oops just about anywhere and you're hosed. Yea, if you throw enough money into it you could make some back but there's got to be a more efficient use of capital than chasing a 1-1.25% return.

Mike,

with all this talk of wet cups, I'll be in my room (you lucky dog)

Glenn don't think of it as 1%, the big buyers are moving daily, or are buying in more than one place at a time. Think of it as 150 or 200 buys a year at 1% a buy . Jim

[cobbler]

It's all about volume

[scotbeve]

Scot

Yep it's a cut throat business. Last year we had a buyer from Phuket, he would rent the factory for the day and pay us 1 Baht a kilo.. He worked on 50 Satang a kilo after costs.

He is not buying here this year, margins are just too small to cover the transport. Jim

Jim,

Unless of course, one does it on a large scale as other posters are mentioning.... Still not easy money tho'....

[thaiguzzi]

Hi dudes,

got to agree with Clive/Boeing757, you guys selling on the gate at mid 30's are getting ripped.

Yesterdays Key Yang/wet cup rubber prices per kilo at government/private/co-op auction, call it whatever you want;

Bung Khan province, Muang; 47.00 baht,

Udon Thani province, Ampur Ban Dung; 47.90 baht.

I saw on the tv that BKK prices for sheet is 100.90, with the above Key Yang/wet cup prices, surely you guys doing sheet should be getting around 90 baht per kg in the provinces?

Mike.

[cobbler]

Hi dudes,

got to agree with Clive/Boeing757, you guys selling on the gate at mid 30's are getting ripped.

Yesterdays Key Yang/wet cup rubber prices per kilo at government/private/co-op auction, call it whatever you want;

Bung Khan province, Muang; 47.00 baht,

Udon Thani province, Ampur Ban Dung; 47.90 baht.

I saw on the tv that BKK prices for sheet is 100.90, with the above Key Yang/wet cup prices, surely you guys doing sheet should be getting around 90 baht per kg in the provinces?

Mike.

Good luck (ling luck) 84 per kilo yesterday here for sheet

[glennb6]

Mike,

the only 'govt' sort of office I've seen in Buengkan is the office of rubber replanting something or other on Hwy 212. I will encourage wife to find out more about this. Do you have any details or specifics?

[thaiguzzi]

Glenn,

auction is about 4 kms outside of Bung Khan city itself. I believe it may be on the property of the lady who wins most of the auctions - could be wrong. Her place is the biggest private buyer around there, i'm sure you must have seen/smelt it. Quite a big operation doing mainly Key Yang/wet cup rubber. If you still ca'nt find out, i'll get a phone no. for you.

Mike.

[jamescollister]

Mike,

the only 'govt' sort of office I've seen in Buengkan is the office of rubber replanting something or other on Hwy 212. I will encourage wife to find out more about this. Do you have any details or specifics?

Glenn these prices are the Government buying scheme, we sold some sheet to the co op under this alleged scheme. 6 weeks and still awaiting payment. Read somewhere that buyers, not growers were selling rubber under the scheme and all payments in Issan have been frozen until a police investigation. Better money in hand now than more sometime in the future [maybe ] Jim

[kwonitoy]

Sold today at a market about 7kms east of Ban Dung, just past the turn off to Kam Chanod. (you know this place Mike?) for a price of 47.9 baht per kilo.

I took a picture of the bulletin board that had the five bids placed for the purchase of the rubber. I was trying to get my cousin to ask the trucker where they take the rubber but the language barrier got the best of me. Next puzzle to solve I guess. That's the next step in the rubber food chain.

5 big trucks full at 20 tons per truck equals about 5 million baht worth of yang to sell on, not for the faint hearted for sure.