Rubber Trees

[scotbeve]

Cup lump 69 baht/kilo yesterday in Chiang Rai.

Thanks Chang! Any word on USS prices in CR?

BTW - Would you happen to know the most recent news about the Chiang Saen "collection point" of rubber for export " to the north"? My S - I - L is involved with the "co-op" for the north at the Amphur level and so far, everything sounds upbeat....

Hi Scott, do you have any more info on this collection point in Chiang Saen. Not too far from me really and am trying to find out where to get the highest price at the moment. If you have a location/address for me I will take a drive up and have a reccie.

Many thanks,

Stuart.

Hi Stuart,

Just asked my wife and she checked with her sister (my SIL). The story is that the "godown" is still being built but it's quite near the dock on the river (tah luea). I'm afraid that's all I know about it at this time.

BR,

Scott

[jamescollister]

Cup lump 69 baht/kilo yesterday in Chiang Rai.

Thanks Chang! Any word on USS prices in CR?

BTW - Would you happen to know the most recent news about the Chiang Saen "collection point" of rubber for export " to the north"? My S - I - L is involved with the "co-op" for the north at the Amphur level and so far, everything sounds upbeat....

Hi Scott, do you have any more info on this collection point in Chiang Saen. Not too far from me really and am trying to find out where to get the highest price at the moment. If you have a location/address for me I will take a drive up and have a reccie.

Many thanks,

Stuart.

On a similar topic I note yesterday on www.rubberthai.com that they have listed a new Government auction house in Buriram. Not open yet I would guess as there were no rubber sales listed. Anyone know of the place or anything about it. Jim

[scotbeve]

Cup lump 69 baht/kilo yesterday in Chiang Rai.

Thanks Chang! Any word on USS prices in CR?

BTW - Would you happen to know the most recent news about the Chiang Saen "collection point" of rubber for export " to the north"? My S - I - L is involved with the "co-op" for the north at the Amphur level and so far, everything sounds upbeat....

Hi Scott, do you have any more info on this collection point in Chiang Saen. Not too far from me really and am trying to find out where to get the highest price at the moment. If you have a location/address for me I will take a drive up and have a reccie.

Many thanks,

Stuart.

On a similar topic I note yesterday on www.rubberthai.com that they have listed a new Government auction house in Buriram. Not open yet I would guess as there were no rubber sales listed. Anyone know of the place or anything about it. Jim

Jim,

Wasn't there or isn't there some private co-operatives that started up over your way yet? I thought I heard a mate of mine talking about this before on the fuzzy end of a night out. IMHO - this would be the way to go such as (Chantaburi Province) :

http://www.fsct.com/english/index.php?f1=menu1.4.html

http://www.thainr.com/en/index.php

[jamescollister]

Hi Scot

Yes there are a few Co ops in the district and they are a good idea for small holdings to pool their rubber and get the best price from the buyers. Not much good for me as I am one of the buyers, though not very compeditive in the cup or sheet side. We do buy cup and sheet, but pay a low price. The only reason someone sells to us is that we are 24/7 unlike others that buy once a week. As I said we do latex and I am very compeditive in this as we hold the rubber processing licence to the area. but as yet have not been able to get the locals to go the latex way in any number. Buying rubber is a complex thing and some of the big buyers work on 50 satang profit per kilo after costs.

Good example just happened as I was typing this. Man rocks up and he wants to go to town with his wife. He has no money, but has a bag of cup. We pay 65 baht a kilo, next week will will sell it and make 15 Baht profit. Now that rubber may change hands 2 or 3 times before it ends up in a big rubber house or the Government auction. If I can cut out the other hands and transport to Buriram, another few Baht can be made. Not much money to you offshore workers and those of independent means, but to me who has no income except for rubber every Baht counts. Jim

[scotbeve]

Hi Scot

Yes there are a few Co ops in the district and they are a good idea for small holdings to pool their rubber and get the best price from the buyers. Not much good for me as I am one of the buyers, though not very compeditive in the cup or sheet side. We do buy cup and sheet, but pay a low price. The only reason someone sells to us is that we are 24/7 unlike others that buy once a week. As I said we do latex and I am very compeditive in this as we hold the rubber processing licence to the area. but as yet have not been able to get the locals to go the latex way in any number. Buying rubber is a complex thing and some of the big buyers work on 50 satang profit per kilo after costs.

Good example just happened as I was typing this. Man rocks up and he wants to go to town with his wife. He has no money, but has a bag of cup. We pay 65 baht a kilo, next week will will sell it and make 15 Baht profit. Now that rubber may change hands 2 or 3 times before it ends up in a big rubber house or the Government auction. If I can cut out the other hands and transport to Buriram, another few Baht can be made. Not much money to you offshore workers and those of independent means, but to me who has no income except for rubber every Baht counts. Jim

Jim,

I think you'll find in some places - such as where we are in the north - that there are going to be a strict set of rules set out by the co-ops (relatives are going to be on the board). One of which is to actually do away with the middleman so the growers get a good price for a change. No, not a pipe dream....

[jamescollister]

Hi Scot

Yes there are a few Co ops in the district and they are a good idea for small holdings to pool their rubber and get the best price from the buyers. Not much good for me as I am one of the buyers, though not very compeditive in the cup or sheet side. We do buy cup and sheet, but pay a low price. The only reason someone sells to us is that we are 24/7 unlike others that buy once a week. As I said we do latex and I am very compeditive in this as we hold the rubber processing licence to the area. but as yet have not been able to get the locals to go the latex way in any number. Buying rubber is a complex thing and some of the big buyers work on 50 satang profit per kilo after costs.

Good example just happened as I was typing this. Man rocks up and he wants to go to town with his wife. He has no money, but has a bag of cup. We pay 65 baht a kilo, next week will will sell it and make 15 Baht profit. Now that rubber may change hands 2 or 3 times before it ends up in a big rubber house or the Government auction. If I can cut out the other hands and transport to Buriram, another few Baht can be made. Not much money to you offshore workers and those of independent means, but to me who has no income except for rubber every Baht counts. Jim

Jim,

I think you'll find in some places - such as where we are in the north - that there are going to be a strict set of rules set out by the co-ops (relatives are going to be on the board). One of which is to actually do away with the middleman so the growers get a good price for a change. No, not a pipe dream....

Scot sounds fine in theory, but to do away with the middlemen they will need to construct drying sheds, storage sheds, buy big trucks for transport and hire staff. Lots of bucks and unless the Government is going to come to the party, there is no chance of that here and I doubt the Government wants to lose the revenue from what they make buying rubber, don't see it happening soon. Jim

[jamescollister]

Scot just sent a repy, but seems to have vanished in the ether, will try again. Cutting out the middlemen sounds good in theory, but your Co op will have to spend big time on drying sheds storage sheds, big truck etc and staff. No chance of the locals here putting up that kind of money. Plus don't see the Government coming to help as they will lose the revenue from buying locally. Hope it comes about, but won;t hold my breathe. Jim

[slapout]

I have often wondered why the government, to help the farmers out of their dire straits, does not finance coop facilities. Thus getting more profit back to the farmer and thus into the local economy. Then I was informed that the middleman slot was filled by individuals who support the local powers that be.

There are a few independent middlemen out there, but they seem to follow a similar price schedule so as not to rock the boat, too much. At least they seem to have funds avaliable to pay on delivery/up front, etc. The sponsored middlemen do not seem to have sufficient personal funds and their sponsors do not seem to trust them with too much up front money.

[jamescollister]

I have often wondered why the government, to help the farmers out of their dire straits, does not finance coop facilities. Thus getting more profit back to the farmer and thus into the local economy. Then I was informed that the middleman slot was filled by individuals who support the local powers that be.

There are a few independent middlemen out there, but they seem to follow a similar price schedule so as not to rock the boat, too much. At least they seem to have funds avaliable to pay on delivery/up front, etc. The sponsored middlemen do not seem to have sufficient personal funds and their sponsors do not seem to trust them with too much up front money.

Don't think there is really any price fixing, we get buyer from as far away as Phuket, it's just that the margins are so small that the prices seem the same. As for the government helping out the poor rubber farmers. Compared to rice farmers etc they are not poor. In the village up the road from me [ new rubber area ] 70 new cars were bought last year and there are only 400 houses there. I have to say in all my working life I never had a new car until now. Jim

[scotbeve]

Scot just sent a repy, but seems to have vanished in the ether, will try again. Cutting out the middlemen sounds good in theory, but your Co op will have to spend big time on drying sheds storage sheds, big truck etc and staff. No chance of the locals here putting up that kind of money. Plus don't see the Government coming to help as they will lose the revenue from buying locally. Hope it comes about, but won;t hold my breathe. Jim

Jim,

Yes, I can see where most of us older hands can have a "biased" view of the way ANY agri-business has / is / will be run in LOS. But there are some VERY serious steps being taken in at least 2 provinces here in the north. Yes, loads of cash to be sunk in including the "buffer" fund high 8 to 9 figures (in Baht) and another yes from some of us who are kind of well-to-do that will be very proactive in the exporting that will go up north. Plenty of balances and checks to be put in place where MANY villagers will be watchdogs for establishing an honest (hard to say that word here - I know...) business venture.

[scotbeve]

I have often wondered why the government, to help the farmers out of their dire straits, does not finance coop facilities. Thus getting more profit back to the farmer and thus into the local economy. Then I was informed that the middleman slot was filled by individuals who support the local powers that be.

There are a few independent middlemen out there, but they seem to follow a similar price schedule so as not to rock the boat, too much. At least they seem to have funds avaliable to pay on delivery/up front, etc. The sponsored middlemen do not seem to have sufficient personal funds and their sponsors do not seem to trust them with too much up front money.

The government wanted to plant another 800,000 rai of rubber this year and "promised" to give out FREE saplings and fertilizer... Well, a few weeks ago, the govt. canceled the free saplings as well as the fertilizer.... Now they promise to pay out 33 baht per tree if all paperwork, etc. is okay.... Not holding my breath!!!

[jamescollister]

Scot just sent a repy, but seems to have vanished in the ether, will try again. Cutting out the middlemen sounds good in theory, but your Co op will have to spend big time on drying sheds storage sheds, big truck etc and staff. No chance of the locals here putting up that kind of money. Plus don't see the Government coming to help as they will lose the revenue from buying locally. Hope it comes about, but won;t hold my breathe. Jim

Jim,

Yes, I can see where most of us older hands can have a "biased" view of the way ANY agri-business has / is / will be run in LOS. But there are some VERY serious steps being taken in at least 2 provinces here in the north. Yes, loads of cash to be sunk in including the "buffer" fund high 8 to 9 figures (in Baht) and another yes from some of us who are kind of well-to-do that will be very proactive in the exporting that will go up north. Plenty of balances and checks to be put in place where MANY villagers will be watchdogs for establishing an honest (hard to say that word here - I know...) business venture.

Keep me informed as to how it;s going and maybe when things are sorted out I can come up and see how it was set up. You never know the locals here may one day want to changes there ways. Jim

[chang35baht]

Cup lump 69 baht/kilo yesterday in Chiang Rai.

Thanks Chang! Any word on USS prices in CR?

BTW - Would you happen to know the most recent news about the Chiang Saen "collection point" of rubber for export " to the north"? My S - I - L is involved with the "co-op" for the north at the Amphur level and so far, everything sounds upbeat....

Hi Scott, do you have any more info on this collection point in Chiang Saen. Not too far from me really and am trying to find out where to get the highest price at the moment. If you have a location/address for me I will take a drive up and have a reccie.

Many thanks,

Stuart.

Hi Stuart,

Just asked my wife and she checked with her sister (my SIL). The story is that the "godown" is still being built but it's quite near the dock on the river (tah luea). I'm afraid that's all I know about it at this time.

BR,

Scott

Ok Scott thanks for thay.

I shall endeavour to find out where the people who buy from us go to sell.

Regards,

Stuart.

[muratremix]

Any idea how much middle man shave from current market prices to buy at your gate?

[jamescollister]

Any idea how much middle man shave from current market prices to buy at your gate?

The same as anywhere, they want to buy as cheap as possible and sell for as much as possible., but they have competition and if they pay too little you just say no and sell to someone else. If in doubt sell to the Government. Jim

[muratremix]

Hi james,

i wonder if anyone with large sum of cash thought about being a middle man in rubber business. it seems more easy compared to rubber plantation / dealing with tappers.

[jamescollister]

Hi james,

i wonder if anyone with large sum of cash thought about being a middle man in rubber business. it seems more easy compared to rubber plantation / dealing with tappers.

Hi again, it's not an easy business. To start you need a license to buy, then you need a lot of cash and a big truck to be competitive. Add to that you have to know your rubber and have contacts to sell at a good price. 4 or 5 buyers a year will go out of business here, to be replaced by the next hopefuls.. Jim

[muratremix]

So what i dont understand is this: if middle man buy from farmer as liquid (wet cup) how they sell it again? Do they produce mats (that explains need of big truck) or do they simply resell as water without waiting overnight (no big truck is necessary then)

[jamescollister]

So what i dont understand is this: if middle man buy from farmer as liquid (wet cup) how they sell it again? Do they produce mats (that explains need of big truck) or do they simply resell as water without waiting overnight (no big truck is necessary then)

Lets see if I can explain how it works. Lowest form of buyer is the guy who drives around villages etc buying rubber. He will not be a licensed buyer, but will have made a deal or works for a licensed buyer. The licensed buyer will tell the local guy what price he is paying for dry cup, sun dried sheet and ribbed smoked rubber that day. The local man then sets his price, which will be as low as he can get. If it is too low no one will sell, if too high he can't make a profit. He is looking for the small farmers who can't be bothered to take their rubber on a motorbike to a bigger buyer to make an extra few Baht.

End of the day and the local buyer has done well and filled his pickup truck with rubber. If he is lucky he has bought rubber at 3 to 5 Baht under what the licensed buyers price. So lets say he has 1000 kilos and has made a 5 Baht a kilo profit, he has made 5000 Baht. Sounds good. but he has to pay for his pickup, fuel etc and on some days no one is selling or another local buyer is paying more. These guys are really just working for Thai wages.

Now the licensed buyer is in the same boat, he will have made a deal or deals with a big rubber processing factory or with a bigger licensed buyer with trucks. Some of the bigger buyers set up weekly markets in different areas each day to buy. Now theses guys are in compatition with each other and with the Government buyers. Eveyone wants your rubber, but you want the best price. Now the big buyers work on even smaller margins than the local buyers, but make their money by volume. If you only make 1 Baht a kilo profit, but ship 2o metric tons a day you are doing OK.

Doesn't sound all that good and as I said earlier some buyers work on a 50 Satang clear profit per kilo. Is it worth the effort, if you look at it this way. Average price paid for cup SD and RSS is 100 Baht a kilo and you make 1 Baht profit and you send that rubber off everyday you are making 1 percent return per day, 5 percent a week, a lot better than bank interest.

Now don;t go thinking it is easy to do, must new buyers are out of business in the first 6 months, you have got to be smart and know your stuff to make it work. Jim

[muratremix]

Thank you for detailed explanation and patience jim.

[jamescollister]

Thank you for detailed explanation and patience jim.

My pleasure to assist and as it has been pissing rain here for 2 days I haven't got much to do. Drink beer or play on the computer and I haven't had a beer yet. Will change that in about 10 minutes. Jim

[Mobaan]

A little change of directions here -if you all dont mind .

Next week we will hopefully start planting .

A friend of mine ( who unfortunately died recently -so I can not ask him )had a PhD in chemistry , so I trust his word on this. He was extremly paranoid about using Furadan(short and long term poision effects ) at the time of planting . From his widow I now learned that he used 3 moth balls per planting hole at the time of planting . Thats 2 years ago and the trees look fine to me .

Could anyone comment on this please.

[customcurb]

I might as well jump in here too as I have $kin in the game.

Jim, on your videos you said making RSS will make you 20 to 25 baht more per Kg than selling raw field latex. Are these numbers still valid? Can you elaborate on the numbers you are or are not making on the rubber processing business with field latex bought from other farmers ?

Thanks

Glenn

[jamescollister]

A little change of directions here -if you all dont mind .

Next week we will hopefully start planting .

A friend of mine ( who unfortunately died recently -so I can not ask him )had a PhD in chemistry , so I trust his word on this. He was extremly paranoid about using Furadan(short and long term poision effects ) at the time of planting . From his widow I now learned that he used 3 moth balls per planting hole at the time of planting . Thats 2 years ago and the trees look fine to me .

Could anyone comment on this please.

Mobaan you have thrown me on this one, why do you want to put poison or moth balls in the hole, what are you trying to kill. Maybe there is a problem in your area that I know nothing about, but the only thing that's put in with the tree here is dirt and water. Jim

[jamescollister]

I might as well jump in here too as I have $kin in the game.

Jim, on your videos you said making RSS will make you 20 to 25 baht more per Kg than selling raw field latex. Are these numbers still valid? Can you elaborate on the numbers you are or are not making on the rubber processing business with field latex bought from other farmers ?

Thanks

Glenn

Hi Glenn before I respond to the question are you the Glenn whos wife visited about a month ago. If so better to stick to e mails, if not tell me and I will write something on the subject. Jim

[kwonitoy]

A little change of directions here -if you all dont mind .

Next week we will hopefully start planting .

A friend of mine ( who unfortunately died recently -so I can not ask him )had a PhD in chemistry , so I trust his word on this. He was extremly paranoid about using Furadan(short and long term poision effects ) at the time of planting . From his widow I now learned that he used 3 moth balls per planting hole at the time of planting . Thats 2 years ago and the trees look fine to me .

Could anyone comment on this please.

Mobaan you have thrown me on this one, why do you want to put poison or moth balls in the hole, what are you trying to kill. Maybe there is a problem in your area that I know nothing about, but the only thing that's put in with the tree here is dirt and water. Jim

Mobann,Jim

I'm up around the same area as Mobaan, northeast of Udon Thani.

Around here it is common practice to put a small amount of Furadan (maybe a quarter of a teaspoon's worth) in the hole along with a sprinkling of 20-10-12. It's been recommended by every nursury I've bought from, and they use it when custom planting. it's purpose being to kill bacteria and insects that might affect the roots of the seedling. I've used it on approx. 6,000 trees to date with no adverse affects, the trees age from just planted to 4 years old

Ken

[jamescollister]

A little change of directions here -if you all dont mind .

Next week we will hopefully start planting .

A friend of mine ( who unfortunately died recently -so I can not ask him )had a PhD in chemistry , so I trust his word on this. He was extremly paranoid about using Furadan(short and long term poision effects ) at the time of planting . From his widow I now learned that he used 3 moth balls per planting hole at the time of planting . Thats 2 years ago and the trees look fine to me .

Could anyone comment on this please.

Mobaan you have thrown me on this one, why do you want to put poison or moth balls in the hole, what are you trying to kill. Maybe there is a problem in your area that I know nothing about, but the only thing that's put in with the tree here is dirt and water. Jim

Mobann,Jim

I'm up around the same area as Mobaan, northeast of Udon Thani.

Around here it is common practice to put a small amount of Furadan (maybe a quarter of a teaspoon's worth) in the hole along with a sprinkling of 20-10-12. It's been recommended by every nursury I've bought from, and they use it when custom planting. it's purpose being to kill bacteria and insects that might affect the roots of the seedling. I've used it on approx. 6,000 trees to date with no adverse affects, the trees age from just planted to 4 years old

Ken

Well there you go I learn something new everyday. Maybe back years ago when I last planted it was not a practice. Will ask around and see what they say around here. Is it a white powder by any chance. Jim.

[kwonitoy]

A little change of directions here -if you all dont mind .

Next week we will hopefully start planting .

A friend of mine ( who unfortunately died recently -so I can not ask him )had a PhD in chemistry , so I trust his word on this. He was extremly paranoid about using Furadan(short and long term poision effects ) at the time of planting . From his widow I now learned that he used 3 moth balls per planting hole at the time of planting . Thats 2 years ago and the trees look fine to me .

Could anyone comment on this please.

Mobaan you have thrown me on this one, why do you want to put poison or moth balls in the hole, what are you trying to kill. Maybe there is a problem in your area that I know nothing about, but the only thing that's put in with the tree here is dirt and water. Jim

Mobann,Jim

I'm up around the same area as Mobaan, northeast of Udon Thani.

Around here it is common practice to put a small amount of Furadan (maybe a quarter of a teaspoon's worth) in the hole along with a sprinkling of 20-10-12. It's been recommended by every nursury I've bought from, and they use it when custom planting. it's purpose being to kill bacteria and insects that might affect the roots of the seedling. I've used it on approx. 6,000 trees to date with no adverse affects, the trees age from just planted to 4 years old

Ken

Well there you go I learn something new everyday. Maybe back years ago when I last planted it was not a practice. Will ask around and see what they say around here. Is it a white powder by any chance. Jim.

It's a purplish granular powder. Generally its sold in small 500gm bags but I buy the 15 kilo bag when planting trees. I've also used it in the garden to kill some kind of grubs that were killing my shrubs by eating the roots. Killed the bugs and left the shrubs intact.

[jamescollister]

Ken and Mobaan

Seems I was mistaken when I said we did not use the stuff when we planted. We in fact used it on some trees and not others. Even today some locals use it and others don't. The Aunt planted 5 Rai a few weeks ago and didn't. There appears to be a logic [if you can use that word in Thailand] behind it. Now with all things here when I ask questions half the answer is lost in translation or the informant makes things up so as to not lose face by not knowing. Ergo what I say may or may not be the real facts.

The belief is that many of the things that attack young rubber are a southern problem, these fungis etc have not infested the new planting areas of Issan, so there is no need to protect against them. You only need to poison if you are planting on land that has been used for certain other crops which have attracted termites and other unknown beasties. I can't say if this is right or wrong, but I can say I haven't seen any difference in my trees between the poisoned and nonpoisoned, nor have there been story's of locals having problems when they have not used the stuff.

Mobaan sorry can't help on the moth balls, may be just don't bother with the poison. Jim

[scotbeve]

From what I understand, it's best to use just 2 spoonfuls of Furadan just before planting and to the govt. specifications. Apparently, it's just enough to keep the borer-type insects away from the young roots.