Irony And Its Usage

[deus ex machina]

This post is not meant for the squeamish,sensitive or otherwise precious individuals who may, for reasons only they could possibly fathom, object to the following post which is not directed at anyone in the particular and is therefore not intended to cause offence to any person living or dead either within this forum or without. If offence is taken, then I apologise, wholeheartedly,unequivocally and without any qualification whatsoever.

Why, and I am not being facetious in posing this question, is it that the use of irony is seldom appreciated or even understood in TV?

As a literary technique it is invaluable in pricking balloons of arrogance,hubris and and other delusionary conceits, and therefore a style which might find its natural home in any forum, yet somehow its use seems to have no currency at Thaivisa.I appreciate that some nationals, for example, North Americans, may have some difficulty in grasping the idea of it in the same way that sarcasm similarly seems to fly over their heads,but are other folk similarly affected? Is it only us Brits who like to "take the piss"? In which case, why should that be? My Thai whoopsie regularly means the opposite she says and does so with such panache that, just occasionally, I actually take her at her word! I sometimes speculate upon this skill she evidently possesses and its origin.Then it occurred to me, sincerity is entirely negotiable and therefore of little intrinsic value, something most Thai grasp instinctively. But I digress, if only to remain on topic...it is after all, Thaivisa.com

Anyway, there it is .

The question is " are TV members too dumb to use irony"

[GU22]

The question is  " are TV members too dumb to use irony"

I've only just mastered the washing machine; now you want me to do the ironing as well!

[Pie Boy]

This post is not meant for the squeamish,sensitive or otherwise precious individuals who may, for reasons only they could possibly fathom, object to the following post which is not directed at anyone in the particular and is therefore not intended to cause offence to any person living or dead either within this forum or without. If offence is taken, then I apologise, wholeheartedly,unequivocally and without any qualification whatsoever.

Why, and I am not being facetious in posing this question, is it that the use of irony is seldom appreciated or even understood in TV?

As a literary technique it is invaluable in pricking balloons of arrogance,hubris and and other delusionary conceits, and therefore a style which might find its natural home in any forum, yet somehow its use seems to have no currency at Thaivisa.I appreciate that some nationals, for example, North Americans, may have some difficulty in grasping the idea of it in the same way that sarcasm similarly seems to fly over their heads,but are other folk similarly affected? Is it only us Brits who like to "take the piss"? In which case, why should that be? My Thai whoopsie regularly means the opposite she says and does so with such panache that, just occasionally, I actually take her at her word! I sometimes speculate upon this skill she evidently possesses and its origin.Then it occurred to me, sincerity is entirely negotiable and therefore of little intrinsic value, something most Thai grasp instinctively. But I digress, if only to remain on topic...it is after all, Thaivisa.com

Anyway, there it is .

The question is  " are TV members too dumb to use irony"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent post.

[raro]

The question is  " are TV members too dumb to use irony"

I've only just mastered the washing machine; now you want me to do the ironing as well!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

to OP: I think, you're right....more than often some posters don't get it if someone replies with some tongue-in-cheek remarks.

[Maestro]

The question is  " are TV members too dumb to use irony"

I see two possibilities, or a combination of both:

1. There is often a thin line between irony and sarcasm – the latter being less appreciated, or not at all – and some listeners/readers mistake irony for sarcasm, and some people, when trying to be ironic, are in fact sarcastic.

2. Many forum members are not native English speakers and it is rather difficult to understand irony in a language other than one’s one.

[GuestHouse]

As a literary technique it is invaluable in pricking balloons of arrogance,hubris and and other delusionary conceits

The problem is, that much of the irony used on TV and elsewhere is itself repleat with "arrogance, hubris and and other delusionary conceits".

If you've something to say and want to be really clever, say it in a manner that the absolute greatest number of people will understand.

Otherwise, talk to yourself.

[The_Other_Mac]

If you've something to say and want to be really clever, say it in a manner that the absolute greatest number of people will understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

###### ###### the ###### ######! Why should ###### ###### ######, when we ###### ###### the forum?

[RDN]

As a literary technique it is invaluable in pricking balloons of arrogance,hubris and and other delusionary conceits

The problem is, that much of the irony used on TV and elsewhere is itself repleat with "arrogance, hubris and and other delusionary conceits".

If you've something to say and want to be really clever, say it in a manner that the absolute greatest number of people will understand.

Otherwise, talk to yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't use irony or sarcasm much because I know it will be lost on some of our non-native English speakers, like Northerners, Scots, etc.

[the scouser]

Now just run that one past me again, RDN, is that irony or sarcasm?

Scouse.

[RDN]

Now just run that one past me again, RDN, is that irony or sarcasm?

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm an uneducated Southerner who doesn't know the difference.

[Thomas_Merton]

As a literary technique it is invaluable in pricking balloons of arrogance,hubris and and other delusionary conceits

The problem is, that much of the irony used on TV and elsewhere is itself repleat with "arrogance, hubris and and other delusionary conceits".

If you've something to say and want to be really clever, say it in a manner that the absolute greatest number of people will understand.

Otherwise, talk to yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't use irony or sarcasm much because I know it will be lost on some of our non-native English speakers, like Northerners, Scots, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is less than ironic, as it is a known fact - in our house anyway - that the Welsh and the Irish both speak and write English of such richness and complexity, those poor inhabitants south of Watford Gap rush to their dictionaries in desperation.

As for the foreigners: we gave up on them when we lost the Empire.

PS. The Danes are the only Nationality to grasp irony like the English. That is not only in their own language, but also in HMQ's as well. Classic comedies dependant on an advanced awareness of English irony like "Keeping up Appearances" are huge hits there.

I doubt if any citizen of the USA has ever seen, or ever understood, the wonderful Mrs. Bouquet.

[BambinA]

Irony

seem it works for Brit and Thai , we have same dry homour..and i really love it.. when i read Brit pocket book, its really funny ..

seem 90% of yanks dont get it

i have no idea about aussie roo

bambi

[BambinA]

example ..

when i tell a guy .. hey ... you are as smart as i expected!!

90% yanks say..oh thanks

100% brit get the point

and waht i mean = hey u re too really idiot ..!!

[BambinA]

ohh well well well .. i dont mean yankies are stupid .. just thier custom and culture make they have straight thought

bambi

[khall64au]

Irony

seem it works for Brit and Thai , we have same dry homour..and i really love it.. when i read Brit pocket book, its really funny ..

seem 90% of yanks dont get it

i have no idea about aussie roo

bambi

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This little joey gets it Bambi.....

[Guest endure]

ohh  well well well .. i dont  mean yankies are  stupid .. just thier custom and  culture make  they have straight  thought

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thnk Bambi has it right here. Many Americans tend to be quite literal and take speech at face value.

[lovejoy]

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit

but the most effective

[cdnvic]

This is less than ironic, as it is a known fact - in our house anyway - that the Welsh and the Irish both speak and write English of such richness and complexity, those poor inhabitants south of Watford Gap rush to their dictionaries in desperation.

As for the foreigners: we gave up on them when we lost the Empire.

PS. The Danes are the only Nationality to grasp irony like the English. That is not only in their own language, but also in HMQ's as well. Classic comedies dependant on an advanced awareness of English irony like "Keeping up Appearances" are huge hits there.

I doubt if any citizen of the USA has ever seen, or ever understood, the wonderful Mrs. Bouquet.

If you look at today's humour, comparing the British to the American you find that the brit is a dry wit where the american is more slapstick. If you go back to the root of modern television and cinema you'll find that the british television and cinema's roots trace back to the classic theatre which was written for a more (forgive me for this) "high brow" audience. The American television and cinema however, finds its roots on the vaudville stage which was aimed at poor working class individuals who had little education, making physical comedy and slapstick gags nessesary in order to please a (not meant to be derogatory) simpler audience.

The big players in the golden age of television in the US were almost always from the vaudville stage, and the slapstick tradition followed them. The British actors who pioneered television in that country brought the dry wit from the classical stage that still personifies the majority of British television today.

This is why many British shows don't work in the US. Take The Office. Hilarious when I watch the british version, but a complete dud when Americanized. Same goes with Ali G. His whole act depended on that British need to make the best of things and not create a scene. His poor guests soon knew they were the butt of a joke, but nonetheless tried to make the best of it, and that tension just added to the humour.

Now put Ali G on HBO in the states and he just looked foolish. The Americans may be low-brow in alot of their humour but they don't suffer fools easily. Many who encountered him wound up calling his bluff and ending the interview.

I'm lucky, the CBC was modeled along the same lines of the BBC and had the same classical heritage (our shows rarely work south of the border either), but we still had enough American stuff coming across the border to enjoy the best of both worlds. I enjoy Hyacinth Bucket as much as Archie Bunker.

cv

[Jeff1]

example ..

when  i  tell  a  guy .. hey ... you are  as  smart as i expected!!

90%  yanks say..oh thanks

100% brit get the point

and  waht i mean  = hey u  re  too really idiot ..!!

Actually whats not " gotten " is the thanks for the insult .

[SiamOne]

I find it exasperating and amusing, in equal amounts, when I post something and it is taken at face value.

I don't know whether to apologise or just let it go!!

never mind, always a next time

[chownah]

Is telling a lie irony?

[Sir Burr]

"Irony. That's like goldy, or, coppery but a different colour" (Baldrick from Blackadder).

[sbk]

I think, in a forum, it is difficult to be ironic without actually being sarcastic and offensive. Much gets lost without being able to see someones body language or face. That said, I have often found that those who enjoy "taking the piss" the most are the ones who prefer to inflict it on others but become quite offended when it is aimed at themselves.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I did an open university course a few months back, which involved communicating with other students through on-line chats, etc. Before we started we were introduced to the concept of netiquette. Basically, it's the understanding that the emoticons are used to convey humour, irony, etc.

When they are seen it tells you not to take the post so seriously. Maybe an administrator could tag a post somewhere explaining this concept.

Edited October 10, 2005 by Grant

[helitool]

Thomas,

I fear that you made a spelling error in the following sentence.

" I doubt if any citizen of the USA has ever seen, or ever understood, the wonderful Mrs. Bouquet."

Her name is actually spelled "Bucket" she only pronounces it Bouquet! Some of us colonials do watch " Keeping up with apperances" here in the states.

You guys aren't casting asparagus on my caricature are you?

[minbari73]

"Irony. That's like goldy, or, coppery but a different colour" (Baldrick from Blackadder).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"That's like goldy, or bronzy, but made of iron."

I think thats the quote

[dr_Pat_Pong]

If you've something to say and want to be really clever, say it in a manner that the absolute greatest number of people will understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

###### ###### the ###### ######! Why should ###### ###### ######, when we ###### ###### the forum?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That said a great deal about the original post

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas,

I fear that you made a spelling error in the following sentence.

" I doubt if any citizen of the USA has ever seen, or ever understood, the wonderful Mrs. Bouquet."

Her name is actually spelled "Bucket"  she only pronounces it Bouquet!  Some of us colonials do watch " Keeping up with apperances"  here in the states.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yet again, someone from across the pond, fails to see the irony - I do make errors - but not this time.

[deus ex machina]

I did an open university course a few months back, which involved communicating with other students through on-line chats, etc.  Before we started we were introduced to the concept of netiquette.  Basically, it's the understanding that the emoticons are used to convey humour, irony, etc. 

When they are seen it tells you not to take the post so seriously.  Maybe an administrator could tag a post somewhere explaining this concept.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take your point but festooning posts with enlightening emoticons, in lieu of punctuation and accurate expression, strikes me as being somewhat lazy and perhaps a little patronising to the reader.Nevertheless, I can see its value in aiding comprehension in the more obtuse.

[x-pat]

maestro: 2. Many forum members are not native English speakers and it is rather difficult to understand irony in a language other than one’s one.

As a member of the German community, I should say that renderings of dry British humour are much appreciated. I apologise for not always being able to instantly grasp such exalted levels of humour, especially if they contain allusions to British TV personages and other local peculiarities.

You see, we Germans are trained to think logically in a rectilinear sort of way. Like the Americans we prefer to build our roads straight rather than with many curves (and we also drive on the proper side of these roads). The high level of abstraction and the twisted path of thought required to interpret ironical messages (and to drive on the left side of the road) runs somewhat against our cultural grain.

Yet, for the purpose of exhanging humorous communication with our friends across the channel, it would be nice if the British members could perhaps post some instructions on how to properly construct sentences that contain British humour. I am thinking along the lines of a "British humour user manual - its construction and application".

If possible, these instructions should avoid jokes about Yanks and other nations, because -as we all know- it is a very bad thing to ridicule other cultures, unless they are French.

Thank You.