Thaksin Faces Long Journey Home

[Arkady]

The chances of Thaksin returning to Thailand, and not going straight to jail, are nil, imo.

If you think so the can you explain why his convicted ex-wife who stays in Thailand is still walking around free.

If PTP wins the elections,which is a sure fact,and is able to form a government,which is not so sure yet,he will land at swampy within a month and probably kiss the concrete once again.He might pass the jail but will go to start straigth after that.

His ex-wife was not convicted in the same case. She was sentenced to 3 years for tax evasion in another case. She has appealed the conviction and the appeal court seems to be dragging its heels indefinitely. Thaksin could not appeal because he was convicted in the Supreme Court which is already the highest court.

You are right that Thaksin is too impetuous to want to wait for a lengthy legal process. He will go for some kind of band aid solution.

[Buchholz]

We don't have a vote so may I suggest that we all take a deep breath, sit back and watch the farce unfold. Whatever happens, the sun will still rise in the morning and there will always be a happy hour on Soi Cowboy

Won't be so happy if Thaksin loses and the girls of soi Cowboi go on strike!

Won't be so happy if Thaksin wins and brings Purachai back into a coalition who then shuts down Soi Cowboy.

.

Ah. Now I understand your concerns, and how this affects your political opinions. I don't mind a beer either, but my concern is firstly for Thailand.

I'd say you understand precious little if you thought there was any serious opinion being voiced behind the facetious reply to a facetious reply to an inane post.

.

[Buchholz]

The chances of Thaksin returning to Thailand, and not going straight to jail, are nil, imo.

If you think so the can you explain why his convicted ex-wife who stays in Thailand is still walking around free.

If PTP wins the elections,which is a sure fact,and is able to form a government,which is not so sure yet,he will land at swampy within a month and probably kiss the concrete once again.He might pass the jail but will go to start straigth after that.

His ex-wife was not convicted in the same case. She was sentenced to 3 years for tax evasion in another case. She has appealed the conviction and the appeal court seems to be dragging its heels indefinitely. Thaksin could not appeal because he was convicted in the Supreme Court which is already the highest court.

You are right that Thaksin is too impetuous to want to wait for a lengthy legal process. He will go for some kind of band aid solution.

A slight clarification. Thaksin had 30 days to appeal his conviction. He intentionally allowed it to lapse.

Thaksin won't appeal corruption conviction

Posted Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:41pm AEDT

Ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not appeal his conviction and two-year jail sentence for corruption, his lawyer said as the deadline passed for any legal action.

Thaksin was on October 21 sentenced in absentia to two years in jail for conflict of interest after helping his then-wife Pojaman buy state-owned land when he was premier.

"I have been informed today that Thaksin will not appeal his case and that he will explain his reasons to his supporters soon," said Kamnuan Chalopatham, a member of Thaksin's legal team in Thailand.

His lawyers had 30 days from the conviction to appeal to the Supreme Court.

- AFP

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/18/2423365.htm?section=world

Edited June 21, 2011 by Buchholz

[bf2002]

Sorry. Replying to the article and not you, but one can't seem to reply to the article.

It's funny that there is any legal "issue" at all.

The whole thing was a political joke created by people who disliked 3 things about old T ---- he had the nerve to suggest certain Westernizations to the SET and financial system (most went thru during and AFTER he was ousted, despite his opponent's "disagreements" to them, one wonders why SIC), his appalling recognition in words and actions that corruption IS a way of life in old Siam (oh my! the nerve of the man to recognize this and not stick his head in the sand), and the idea Siam should be like the UK in that which must never be spoken.

The rest is total bunk....yes, he's guilty, just like all of them.....I believe the term for what they did is "inconsistent prosecution", and that is the most politically correct you will hear from any REAL Western press on this almost decade long little affair that's destroyed the standard of living of the average Thai.

As if a coup is any more legal. So where are the cases against those people? or the veiled recent threats by the army once again? and why is one of them still in office?

Laughable that one person could feel themselves to be so far above the law "how many other criminals on death row, In federal prisons in HM Government prisons feel that they are innocent? The fact is mr Thaksin - there is a due legal process to go through whether you feel the coup was wrong or not. Be a man and go through it Khun Shinawatra - like the rest of the human race would. I find it deeply disturbing that all the pain and hardship that thailand is and has gone through in the last 5 years is for the benefit of one man with so little character or moral fiber. This is what makes the red shirt cause a lost cause by any standards in the world!!

[FOODLOVER]

If he books his flight now they have some very reasonable rates. He probably doesn't need car rental or hotel so it should not be that difficult.

4,892 km

[Arkady]

A slight clarification. Thaksin had 30 days to appeal his conviction. He intentionally allowed it to lapse.

Thaksin won't appeal corruption conviction

Posted Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:41pm AEDT

Ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not appeal his conviction and two-year jail sentence for corruption, his lawyer said as the deadline passed for any legal action.

Thaksin was on October 21 sentenced in absentia to two years in jail for conflict of interest after helping his then-wife Pojaman buy state-owned land when he was premier.

"I have been informed today that Thaksin will not appeal his case and that he will explain his reasons to his supporters soon," said Kamnuan Chalopatham, a member of Thaksin's legal team in Thailand.

His lawyers had 30 days from the conviction to appeal to the Supreme Court.

- AFP

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/18/2423365.htm?section=world

You are right but he had no right of appeal to a higher court as that was the highest court. That meant the court would only consider an appeal, if substantially new evidence were presented. It was pretty clear that he had signed the spousal consent form for his wife to buy the land at a promotional price. Thus only a different interpretation of that sleazy transaction by a more compliant court could have helped him. He did appeal the assets confiscation case but the court ruled that the defence's evidence was just a rehash of the old evidence and dismissed it.

[janverbeem]

A slight clarification. Thaksin had 30 days to appeal his conviction. He intentionally allowed it to lapse.

Thaksin won't appeal corruption conviction

Posted Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:41pm AEDT

Ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not appeal his conviction and two-year jail sentence for corruption, his lawyer said as the deadline passed for any legal action.

Thaksin was on October 21 sentenced in absentia to two years in jail for conflict of interest after helping his then-wife Pojaman buy state-owned land when he was premier.

"I have been informed today that Thaksin will not appeal his case and that he will explain his reasons to his supporters soon," said Kamnuan Chalopatham, a member of Thaksin's legal team in Thailand.

His lawyers had 30 days from the conviction to appeal to the Supreme Court.

- AFP

http://www.abc.net.a...m?section=world

You are right but he had no right of appeal to a higher court as that was the highest court. That meant the court would only consider an appeal, if substantially new evidence were presented. It was pretty clear that he had signed the spousal consent form for his wife to buy the land at a promotional price. Thus only a different interpretation of that sleazy transaction by a more compliant court could have helped him. He did appeal the assets confiscation case but the court ruled that the defence's evidence was just a rehash of the old evidence and dismissed it.

I think you are wrong,the reason he didn't appeal I tought was because the appeal has to be done in person.

[SIAMBULL]

Policemen don't survive prison.

Wealth and power can achieve any nefarious plot... been proven time and again.

If Yingluck is PM, TC will return for the wedding with Isaan's jubilation.

Corruption corrupts.

[freddy]

Thailand chooses to experience so much turmoil because of one man with an ego the size of Isaan.

During my 22 years in Toyland it never ceases to amaze me just how arrogant and egotistical the Thais are, especially the males, most likely something to do with the fact that 'little' people have to puff out their chests to prove their existance!!

[old wanderer]

Policemen don't survive prison.

Wealth and power can achieve any nefarious plot... been proven time and again.

If Yingluck is PM, TC will return for the wedding with Isaan's jubilation.

Corruption corrupts.

How true the statements below about the arrogance of many. Have we so soon forgotten "Sae Dang" ??

He believed himself to be untouchable during the protest. That all changed with a BANG.

It could just as easily happen to Thaskin. (I am surprised that it has not already hapened).

[Buchholz]

The chances of Thaksin returning to Thailand, and not going straight to jail, are nil, imo.

If you think so the can you explain why his convicted ex-wife who stays in Thailand is still walking around free.

If PTP wins the elections,which is a sure fact,and is able to form a government,which is not so sure yet,he will land at swampy within a month and probably kiss the concrete once again.He might pass the jail but will go to start straigth after that.

One difference between Thaksin and his supposedly divorced wife Potjaman is their status following conviction.

Potjaman appealed her verdict and thus remains free on bail (for nearly three years now).

Thaksin did NOT appeal his verdict and thus, if the law is followed, should be remanded into custody upon his return.

.

Court to rule today on Pojaman's appeal

The Appeals Court is set to rule today on a case involving Thaksin Shinawatra's ex-wife Pojaman na Pombejra.

Pojaman was sentenced in 2008 to three years in jail. She was found guilty of evading tax payment of Bt546 million for the transfer of 4.5 million shares of Shinawatra Computer and Communications worth Bt738 million.

Also found guilty were her adopted brother Bhanapot Damapong, who received the shares, and her secretary Kanjanapa Honghern.

The Court sentenced Khunying Pojaman and Bhanapot to a total of three years in jail - two years for the charges relating to the conspiracy to evade tax and one year for giving falsified statements to authorities. Kanjanapa faces two years in jail.

The court at the time said the three defendants had committed serious crimes and filed false statements with government agencies to avoid paying taxes. They also received a strong reprimand from the court for evading taxes despite being very rich.

The court said that the prosecution evidence was solid and indisputable. The three suspects were found guilty of fraud or collaboration to evade taxes.

The Appeals Court will decide on their pleas today. It will be the first major legal affair involving the Shinawatras since Yingluck rose to power.

Pojaman was also a key player in Thaksin's Ratchadaphisek land case.

He was found guilty and sentenced to two years' jail after giving his consent to buy a piece of state-auctioned land while he was in power.

Pojaman escaped punishment in the land case.

-- The Nation 2011-08-24

[moe666]

It seems some people cannot seperate the coup which was political from his criminal conviction for abuse of power. One political the other criminal.

[whybother]

I thought they couldn't proceed on the other charges because he wasn't here.

But are there any charges pending on the serious allegations involving human rights abuses and murder?

How is that relevant?

He has been convicted on a corruption charge, and there are many other corruption charges waiting on his presence. You suggested that the reason that these hadn't been brought before the court was because "More than a few of Thaksin's long-term opponents are just as guilty as him in all his crimes".

My understanding is that they haven't been brought before the courts is because he has to be here.

[Siam Simon]

I thought they couldn't proceed on the other charges because he wasn't here.

But are there any charges pending on the serious allegations involving human rights abuses and murder?

How is that relevant?

He has been convicted on a corruption charge, and there are many other corruption charges waiting on his presence. You suggested that the reason that these hadn't been brought before the court was because "More than a few of Thaksin's long-term opponents are just as guilty as him in all his crimes".

My understanding is that they haven't been brought before the courts is because he has to be here.

Your 'understanding' (of which I'm somewhat cynical) is plain wrong: Thaksin doesn't have to be in Thailand in order for investigations into his involvement in crimes against humanity to take place, and charges wrt this can also be prepared in his abstentia. Heard anything on this? I'm only aware of the financial fraud stuff.

[metisdead]

A post and replies to it criticizing the Thai legal process have been removed.

15) Not to use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of any Thai court of law.

[hammered]

It seems some people cannot seperate the coup which was political from his criminal conviction for abuse of power. One political the other criminal.

The coup resulted in a constitution which actually had a section written into it absolving those responsible of the crime of illegal overthrow of a democracy and ripping up a constitution of any criminal responsibility. From that stems every claim of double standards. Sure convict Thaksin but what reason is there to not try those responsible for overthrowing democracy too. Also try explaining that to ordinary people especially when it concerns the one member of the wealthy political elite who they chose and who they see as the only who helped them.

Edited August 24, 2011 by hammered

[whybother]

I thought they couldn't proceed on the other charges because he wasn't here.

But are there any charges pending on the serious allegations involving human rights abuses and murder?

How is that relevant?

He has been convicted on a corruption charge, and there are many other corruption charges waiting on his presence. You suggested that the reason that these hadn't been brought before the court was because "More than a few of Thaksin's long-term opponents are just as guilty as him in all his crimes".

My understanding is that they haven't been brought before the courts is because he has to be here.

Your 'understanding' (of which I'm somewhat cynical) is plain wrong: Thaksin doesn't have to be in Thailand in order for investigations into his involvement in crimes against humanity to take place, and charges wrt this can also be prepared in his abstentia. Heard anything on this? I'm only aware of the financial fraud stuff.

I'm mainly talking about the financial fraud stuff, which is why I asked about the relevance of your post above.

Thaksin has been convicted of one charge of corruption, and there another 8 or so that can't continue without his presence. His recent "terrorist" charges are moving through the courts at the normal Thai speed ... although, I'm sure they would be pretty much at a dead stop at the moment. Are there any other "serious" charges that have been laid against him from prior to 2010?

[Crushdepth]

The one whois without sin shall throw the first stone: that also applies for politics....

Would seem the politicians aren't listening Tito, they thrown stones all the time, usually at one another.

And bullets.

Only when you run out of cheap Chinese grenades.

[Crushdepth]

The chances of Thaksin returning to Thailand, and not going straight to jail, are nil, imo.

If you think so the can you explain why his convicted ex-wife who stays in Thailand is still walking around free.

If PTP wins the elections,which is a sure fact,and is able to form a government,which is not so sure yet,he will land at swampy within a month and probably kiss the concrete once again.He might pass the jail but will go to start straigth after that.

His ex-wife was not convicted in the same case. She was sentenced to 3 years for tax evasion in another case. She has appealed the conviction and the appeal court seems to be dragging its heels indefinitely. Thaksin could not appeal because he was convicted in the Supreme Court which is already the highest court.

You are right that Thaksin is too impetuous to want to wait for a lengthy legal process. He will go for some kind of band aid solution.

A slight clarification. Thaksin had 30 days to appeal his conviction. He intentionally allowed it to lapse.

Thaksin won't appeal corruption conviction

Posted Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:41pm AEDT

Ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra will not appeal his conviction and two-year jail sentence for corruption, his lawyer said as the deadline passed for any legal action.

Thaksin was on October 21 sentenced in absentia to two years in jail for conflict of interest after helping his then-wife Pojaman buy state-owned land when he was premier.

"I have been informed today that Thaksin will not appeal his case and that he will explain his reasons to his supporters soon," said Kamnuan Chalopatham, a member of Thaksin's legal team in Thailand.

His lawyers had 30 days from the conviction to appeal to the Supreme Court.

- AFP

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/11/18/2423365.htm?section=world

Why appeal when you can just get the Constitution rewritten to exonerate you of all your sins at once

[Siam Simon]

Why appeal when you can just get the Constitution rewritten to exonerate you of all your sins at once

The precedent has already been set by the 2006 coupmakers. Quite a long-standing sorry state of affairs, isn't it?

[whybother]

Why appeal when you can just get the Constitution rewritten to exonerate you of all your sins at once

The precedent has already been set by the 2006 coupmakers. Quite a long-standing sorry state of affairs, isn't it?

I think the precedent of rewriting constitutions was set long before 2006.

I don't understand why they always just start again. Why don't they fix or improve on existing constitutions rather than starting from scratch, usually fixing a couple of issues but adding other problems.

[hammered]

Why appeal when you can just get the Constitution rewritten to exonerate you of all your sins at once

The precedent has already been set by the 2006 coupmakers. Quite a long-standing sorry state of affairs, isn't it?

I think the precedent of rewriting constitutions was set long before 2006.

I don't understand why they always just start again. Why don't they fix or improve on existing constitutions rather than starting from scratch, usually fixing a couple of issues but adding other problems.

1997 was introduced during a period of calm democratic rule after long consultation with a variety of groups. 2007 was introduced during military rule after a coup although they did give the people a choice of 2007 or the military would chose any old one they fancied. I can see the rationale of using 1997 as a base rather than 2007 although obviously certain parts of it may need changing. 2007 does have some interesting parts about rights of the people. Wengs idea of letting the people chose 1997 or 2007 as the base and then putting a final draft made by an elected commission to the people is about as democratic a proposal as you could want. Hopefully that is what they will stick to.

[Valentine]

It seems some people cannot seperate the coup which was political from his criminal conviction for abuse of power. One political the other criminal.

The coup resulted in a constitution which actually had a section written into it absolving those responsible of the crime of illegal overthrow of a democracy and ripping up a constitution of any criminal responsibility. From that stems every claim of double standards. Sure convict Thaksin but what reason is there to not try those responsible for overthrowing democracy too. Also try explaining that to ordinary people especially when it concerns the one member of the wealthy political elite who they chose and who they see as the only who helped them.

Which coup are you talking about that stems every claim of double standards as the coup makers have absolved themselves of responsibility in every other coup as well.

[rubl]

Why appeal when you can just get the Constitution rewritten to exonerate you of all your sins at once

The precedent has already been set by the 2006 coupmakers. Quite a long-standing sorry state of affairs, isn't it?

I think the precedent of rewriting constitutions was set long before 2006.

I don't understand why they always just start again. Why don't they fix or improve on existing constitutions rather than starting from scratch, usually fixing a couple of issues but adding other problems.

1997 was introduced during a period of calm democratic rule after long consultation with a variety of groups. 2007 was introduced during military rule after a coup although they did give the people a choice of 2007 or the military would chose any old one they fancied. I can see the rationale of using 1997 as a base rather than 2007 although obviously certain parts of it may need changing. 2007 does have some interesting parts about rights of the people. Wengs idea of letting the people chose 1997 or 2007 as the base and then putting a final draft made by an elected commission to the people is about as democratic a proposal as you could want. Hopefully that is what they will stick to.

With all the work required for a proper constitution wouldn't it be better to lay both 1997 and 2007 versions next to each other, collect pros/cons previously reported on one or the other and start merging into a next version. Takes time, but there is no real need to hurry this, now is there ?

Edited August 24, 2011 by rubl