Spouse Settlment Visa

[assa64]

Hello,

I entered UK on a 6 months visitor visa in 1999.I overstayed and married a British man in 2002.Solicitors said that in order to regularise my status I had the choice of either going back to Thailand and apply for spouse visa or wait until after 2 years marriage,living together in Uk,and apply inside Uk.But after this period was over(in 2004)solicitors changed their tune:they said the law has changed and I had to go back to my country and apply there,which I did.

It's been now over a year of hel_l,waiting.I applied and was refused on following grounds:

1-my husband/sponsor low income

2-accomodation small

3-suspecting marriage is genuine

But I am graduate and have many skills which offer reasonable chance of work and I have documents and bills from the days we met before marriage as evidence of our genuine marriage.

I was given right of appeal.I appealed.I dont know how long it will take?

Now I have an idea.Please forgive me if it is a silly one.Do I have the right to apply for a short normal visitor visa to UK?

So what do you think about my application in general and this idea?

Thank you in advance for your help.

[GU22]

From what you have said, I think that it is extremely unlikely that any visit visa application would be successful. Having broken the conditions of a visa once, why should they trust you this time?

I am also curious as to the time lines. They suspect that your marriage is not genuine, in other words that you only married to obtain a visa. Was the marriage before or after your overstay was discovered?

[the scouser]

You can apply for a visit visa, but, as GU22 said, your chances of getting one are remote. Other than waiting for the appeal to be heard, the only other option would be for you to apply for a family permit but this will require your husband to be a holder of a passport from a European Union country other than the UK, although he could be a dual national; i.e. have both a UK passport and that of an EU/EEA country.

Scouse.

[GU22]

With respect, Scouse, I feel that any application for an EEA family permit in this case is likely to be refused.

FromGuidance - EEA & Swiss nationals (INF 18)

Can you refuse to give my family members an EEA family permit or residence document?

Yes. We will refuse to give your family member an EEA family permit or residence document if:

you do not have a right of residence in the UK, or

they are involved in a marriage of convenience. (my emphasis)

A marriage of convenience is one that is for immigration purposes only, with neither person planning to live with the other as man and wife in a genuine and settled relationship.

Having rejected a settlement visa because they suspect that the marriage is not genuine, the ECOs are unlikely to accept that it now is for the purposes of an EEA Family Permit.

[the scouser]

Yes, that's true.

Scouse.

[assa64]

Hi,

Thank you all for your advice.Yes what you have said is common sense.

I will focus now on my appeal only,and will reapply in case of refusal.

We will give them all the evidence that our marriage is genuine.But the problem is the Maintenance requirement.As I said my husband has a low income,part time job and I hope you tell me if my good chances of working thanks to my qualification and skills needed in the market will be enough to meet the maintenance requirement rule?

Many thanks

[the scouser]

Certainly, the visa officer should take into consideration your qualifications and the ease (or otherwise) with which you'll be able to find employment in the UK.

You wrote that your husband only works part time. If he receives some types of benefit on top of his pay, these will be considered to be public funds and your application may be doomed to fail. However, if he receives Working Tax Credit, this is NOT, in your situation, considered to be a public fund and should have no bearing upon the visa officer's decision.

Scouse.

[Rj 81]

Hello,

I entered UK on a 6 months visitor visa in 1999.I overstayed and married a British man in 2002.Solicitors said that in order to regularise my status I had the choice of either going back to Thailand and apply for spouse visa or wait until after 2 years marriage,living together in Uk,and apply inside Uk.But after this period was over(in 2004)solicitors changed their tune:they said the law has changed and I had to go back to my country and apply there,which I did.

It's been now over a year of hel_l,waiting.I applied and was refused on following grounds:

1-my husband/sponsor low income

2-accomodation small

3-suspecting marriage is genuine

But I am graduate and have many skills which offer reasonable chance of work and I have documents and bills from the days we met before marriage as evidence of our genuine marriage.

I was given right of appeal.I appealed.I dont know how long it will take?

Now I have an idea.Please forgive me if it is a silly one.Do I have the right to apply for a short normal visitor visa to UK?

So what do you think about my application in general and this idea?

Thank you in advance for your help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I know why it's so difficult getting a visa

[caledonia]

When was your refusal decision given?

The IAA (or whatever they are called now!) have very good turn around times now - but what could be holding it up is the ECO not sending his/her argument to the IAA already. As from April this year they have whole new time lines in place - so for instance we appealed Home Office decisionin April 2004 and had to wait until April 2005 for a Hearing - which we won

But (ain't there always a but!!) Home Office appealed but it only took 12 weeks for us to go in front of another Hearing (which we lost )- you can see the massive difference in waiting times!!!

things have def improved since a few years ago so if you have been waiting a long time since refusal your hubby could chase things with his MP - they do sometimes prompt people into action!

I don't rate your chances of getting a visitor visa at all - if you meet the rules of spousal visa that is one thing but bearing in mind you already over stayed your first visitor visa I don't hold out much hope!

It seems your only problem is your husbands circumstances it will be very hard for a tribunial to rule in your favour - they are genrally quite hard to win - I sat in on LOADS to try and get a feel for them! All I can suggest is your hubby tries to improve things in his situation - although the IAA consider things at the point of refusal! Hmmm as for proving the relationship is genuine - not sure how you do that!! Thankfully both our Hearings (and the Home Office Reps!! shock gasp horror) said they did not doubt our relationship so we have that to (hopefully) make the ECO think twice before they refuse on those grounds!

Sorry to steal your topic with a question myself but since you are normally so helpful Scouse (or anyone!)- we are now finally in a postion to apply for hubby's return to Uk - he was deported for immigration purposes over 3 years ago and finally 3 years are up, we have the IAA saying they have no issue with return once 3 years are up, we have Home office rep saying as much at both hearings, have everything in order, good salary, own home blah blah blah - but I cannot help but worry that the ECO will just laugh him out the interview room!!! Do we have any hope!!!! We meet the rules, he was not a deported criminal, we have served our three years time - I have been out there loads etc etc but well its a bit BUT!!!!

[GuestHouse]

Am I missing something here?

You have already lived in the UK with your husband, albeit illegally, but was he claiming benefits?

If not you have already demonstrated that you can live in the UK on your husband's income without government support.

I can't see a way they could demonstrate otherwise.

[mrbojangles]

Am I missing something here?

You have already lived in the UK with your husband, albeit illegally, but was he claiming benefits?

If not you have already demonstrated that you can live in the UK on your husband's income without government support.

I can't see a way they could demonstrate otherwise.

I think the refusal is mainly, due to the point of the ECO not believing the marriage is a genuine one. If the accommodation and income are also beneath the minimum requirements, this just strengthens the ECO's case for refusing the visa. Don't forget, it's about showing you can support the spouse without recourse to public funds. I'm not an ECO or Immigration Officer but after recently just going through this process, these where the things that we had to prove, with as much detailed evidence as possible. Just my opinion.

[the scouser]

Sorry to steal your topic with a question myself but since you are normally so helpful Scouse (or anyone!)- we are now finally in a postion to apply for hubby's return to Uk  - he was deported for immigration purposes over 3 years ago and finally 3 years are up, we have the IAA saying they have no issue with return once 3 years are up, we have Home office rep saying as much at both hearings, have everything in order, good salary, own home blah blah blah - but I cannot help but worry that the ECO will just laugh him out the interview room!!! Do we have any hope!!!! We meet the rules, he was not a deported criminal, we have served our three years time - I have been out there loads etc etc but well its a bit BUT!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

An adverse immigration history is not, per se, a bar to return. However, as appears to have happened in assa64's case, the visa officer may infer that the applicant married a British citizen purely to circumvent the immigration laws. In your situation, however, you seem to have maintained the relationship over the 3 years since your husband left the UK and this should go a long way towards satisfying the visa officer that despite your husband's previous transgression, your relationship is genuine.

Was your husband required to leave the UK or was he deported: there is an important difference between the two? If he was deported, this means that the Home Secretary has signed an order that he be deported and prohibited from returning to the UK whilst the order is in force. In such a situation, your husband would have to apply to the Home Office for it to be revoked. If, as seems more probable, your husband was removed from the UK, there is no prohibition on him seeking to return.

Scouse.

[assa64]

I think the refusal is mainly, due to the point of the ECO not believing the marriage is a genuine one. If the accommodation and income are also beneath the minimum requirements, this just strengthens the ECO's case for refusing the visa. Don't forget, it's about showing you can support the spouse without recourse to public funds. I'm not an ECO or Immigration Officer but after recently just going through this process, these where the things that we had to prove, with as much detailed evidence as possible. Just my opinion.

Hi,

What do think then of the following quote from the IAS site:

http://www.iasuk.org/C2B/document_tree/Vie...ID=299&CatID=26

"The old ‘primary purpose’ rule was abolished in 1997. This required a couple to show that the spouse entering the UK was not doing so for the primary purpose of gaining entry to the UK. This led to many unjust refusals and some entry clearance officers do not seem to realise it has been abolished. There is nothing wrong with explaining that you would prefer to live in the UK than your country of origin as long as you can show that you genuinely intend to live with the UK sponsor."

Kind regards

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[mrbojangles]

Hi assa,

You have been asked a few questions for the purpose of clarification, on here but not answered them yet. If you do answer them, people might be able to give a more definitive answer.

1/ What size is the house, how many bedrooms etc. Where you intended to live together? And how many people live there?

2/ What income does you husband receive?

3/ Did they give you a reason, as to why they believed your marriage is not a genuine one?

If you can give answers to these, it might enable the guys with the most knowledge to help you.

Cheers

Edited October 20, 2005 by mrbojangles

[the scouser]

In your case, the visa officer seems to be suggesting that because of your adverse immigration history, he believes you contracted your marriage purely for the purposes of legitimising your status in the UK, and can't, therefore, be satisfied that the marriage is a genuine contract founded on "normal" precepts. As the visa officer can't be satisfied that your marriage is the real deal, the corollary is that he can't accept that you intend to live with your husband.

There's an element of primary purpose consideration in that reasoning, but it's then taken one step further to suggest that you won't, in fact, permanently live with your husband, which is a current requirement of the immigration rules.

When did you appeal, and have you received a copy of the visa officer's explanatory statement yet?

Scouse.

[GU22]

Assa64, you haven't answered my question, but I'll ask a few more,

Did you enter the UK intending to overstay, or having got here did you chose to overstay, or did you just forget?

How did you support yourself? Any legal employment would have required a NI number, and to get that you would have needed a valid visa.

Were you subject to removal, deported or did you decide to leave on your own before being discovered?

If removed or deported, did you marry your husband before or after your overstay was discovered?

The only sympathy I have for you is because of the poor advice you were given by your solicitors in 2002; the rest is a mess of your own making.

If it were not for people like you, genuine applicants would have a far easier time.

Now I know why it's so difficult getting a visa

Got it in one, Rj 81.

[assa64]

Hello,

I appealed two months ago.No explanatory statement from the ECO.In fact,I am very much interested now in the immigration judge reaction,especially compassionate circumstances consideration.My hope now is the appeal.

Regarding mrbojangles questions:

1-My husband lives in a big room in a 2 bed shared house with the tenant who is a friend.But it is spacious,2 bathrooms,1 kitchen,a sitting room.We are waiting for a council house and we stand a good chance since his waiting list points are 730.The council may give him the key any time.We are not sure when.

2-income:around £5000/per annum+a saving account.No benefits at all.

3-The Eco believed marriage not genuine because he thinks I am economic migrant+ I have no job in Thailand, he states

Kind regards

[caledonia]

I'm sure that GU22 and Scouse will address your answers muh better but I'll add my two pence

- my understanding was that in a shared house you should have exclusive use of two rooms - i could be totally way off here but I was certainly told before I had my own three bed room house that in a shared scenario we would need a bedroom and living room to ourselves. Maybe that was duff info but maybe that explains there point the house is too small.

- The annual income figure will definalty be below what is allowed - on that salary your hubby actually qualifies for Housing benefit (I am assuming he is over 25 with this calculation). I mean that works out at less than 100 pounds a week - can you see why the would think this is not enough?

- as for the last one - as I said have no idea how to convince them of that fact - it is a toughy!!!

Scouser - thanks for the response. Yes hubby was deported (on an order 8 years old), so we need to get that revoked but that can be applied for through the ECO at same time as visa application - we were actually recommended to do this by the Tribunial hearing in August. I mean I know that the Home office and Foreign Office are totally seperate fromt he IAA but at both hearings the Home Office Rep stated they did not doubt the marriage but they did not think that we met "exceptional compassionate circumstances for it to be revoked beofre the normal three year minimum". The first Hearing disagreed and the second hearing agreed - but they made it clear they would have had a different view five weeks later (when our three years were up!!). They really did help us by making a point of saying "there has clearly been a material change in circumstances", which as you no doubt are aware is a pre-requirement of a deportation order being revoked.

I could go on about it but hey it's boring and not what Thaivisa fok want to read about! Anyway at the end of the day I am sure it will all come down to the ECO, we have met the requirements, in fact they will probably keel over with the weight of the docs we have submitted so I just hope that they give us a fair shot!

[assa64]

Assa64, you haven't answered my question, but I'll ask a few more,

Did you enter the UK intending to overstay, or having got here did you chose to overstay, or did you just forget?

How did you support yourself? Any legal employment would have required a NI number, and to get that you would have needed a valid visa.

Were you subject to removal, deported or did you decide to leave on your own before being discovered?

If removed or deported, did you marry your husband before or after your overstay was discovered?

The only sympathy I have for you is because of the poor advice you were given by your solicitors in 2002; the rest is a mess of your own making.

If it were not for people like you, genuine applicants would have a far easier time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sincerely I have regretted deeply having overstayed.I have paid,and still paying a high price.Never ever crossed my mind that matters will take such a nasty turn.

Answers to your questions:

1-I chose to overstay when I got in UK

2-I worked in local restaurants,shops for cash in hand.

3-I left UK on my own after the solicitors confirmed I must go back and apply back home.

[GuestHouse]

Caledonia raises two valid points.

1. If your husband is earning below the income at which he receives welfare payments and if he is actually claiming them, then that financial situation will automatically preclude you getting a visa on the grounds that you too will be receiving goverment funds.

2. "If it were not for people like you, genuine applicants would have a far easier time".

While I don't agree with the sentiment in which this is said, it is nevertheless true.

As for..

Sincerely I have regretted deeply having overstayed.I have paid,and still paying a high price.Never ever crossed my mind that matters will take such a nasty turn.

I question the term 'Nasty Turn"

We run the risk of running the UK down (The most civilized nation on God's green earth). I'd keep in mind the fate that awaits overstayers in Thailand, an institute known as the IDC, that provides conditions of encarceration not seen in the UK since the prison reforms of the 19th century.

I wish you the very best of luck but can we all keep in mind that there is no point in criticizing personal circumstances.

[marshbags]

No disrespect but questions 1) and 2) indicate that you and your hubby are not entirely above board.

By your own admission you intended to overstay and even though you are on a temp.visa you choose to ignore it.

You and your partner knowingly flouted the law by you working cash in hand,

Why did you not get a legal job to enhance your chances instead of cheating the tax paying U.K. residents who do work legally and pay there due,s.

Even if you where not allowed to work you still broke U.K. laws playing Jack the lad

It,s people like you that have helped make it difficult for genuine couples to get visa,s

You and your husband have a cheek and i hope you never get back in.

You have demonstrated that you do not deserve to live there and we can do without you.

The price you are paying is self inflicted. I have no sympathy for you.

If it was known you where working cash in hand you could have been deported, deservedly as well.

Assa64, you haven't answered my question, but I'll ask a few more,

Did you enter the UK intending to overstay, or having got here did you chose to overstay, or did you just forget?

How did you support yourself? Any legal employment would have required a NI number, and to get that you would have needed a valid visa.

Were you subject to removal, deported or did you decide to leave on your own before being discovered?

If removed or deported, did you marry your husband before or after your overstay was discovered?

The only sympathy I have for you is because of the poor advice you were given by your solicitors in 2002; the rest is a mess of your own making.

If it were not for people like you, genuine applicants would have a far easier time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sincerely I have regretted deeply having overstayed.I have paid,and still paying a high price.Never ever crossed my mind that matters will take such a nasty turn.

Answers to your questions:

1-I chose to overstay when I got in UK

2-I worked in local restaurants,shops for cash in hand.

3-I left UK on my own after the solicitors confirmed I must go back and apply back home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[marshbags]

Please read:- submitted answers to questions 1) and 2) in reply (21) sorry.

No disrespect but questions 1) and 2) indicate that you and your hubby are not entirely above board.

By your own admission you intended to overstay and even though you are on a temp.visa you choose to ignore it.

You and your partner knowingly flouted the law by you working cash in hand,

Why did you not get a legal job to enhance your chances instead of cheating the tax paying U.K. residents who do work legally and pay there due,s.

Even if you where not allowed to work you still broke U.K. laws playing Jack the lad

It,s people like you that have helped make it difficult for genuine couples to get visa,s

You and your husband have a cheek and i hope you never get back in.

You have demonstrated that you do not deserve to live there and we can do without you.

The price you are paying is self inflicted. I have no sympathy for you.

If it was known you where working cash in hand you could have been deported, deservedly as well.

Assa64, you haven't answered my question, but I'll ask a few more,

Did you enter the UK intending to overstay, or having got here did you chose to overstay, or did you just forget?

How did you support yourself? Any legal employment would have required a NI number, and to get that you would have needed a valid visa.

Were you subject to removal, deported or did you decide to leave on your own before being discovered?

If removed or deported, did you marry your husband before or after your overstay was discovered?

The only sympathy I have for you is because of the poor advice you were given by your solicitors in 2002; the rest is a mess of your own making.

If it were not for people like you, genuine applicants would have a far easier time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sincerely I have regretted deeply having overstayed.I have paid,and still paying a high price.Never ever crossed my mind that matters will take such a nasty turn.

Answers to your questions:

1-I chose to overstay when I got in UK

2-I worked in local restaurants,shops for cash in hand.

3-I left UK on my own after the solicitors confirmed I must go back and apply back home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Assa64,

I have no idea of your likelihood of success.

But I have a large degree of sympathy and wish to state we are not all as insensitive to your plight as Marshbags.

It's not as though there aren't at least a couple of British citizens here in Thailand illegally.

[GU22]

3-I left UK on my own after the solicitors confirmed I must go back and apply back home.

Did they confirm this before or after the Home Office told you?

What I'm trying to learn is;

Did you, knowing that you were in the UK illegally and working illegally and having met and fallen in love with your now husband, have a change of heart and seek to remedy the situation?

Or;

Having been found out by the Home Office and knowing you risked removal, possibly deportation, persuade an acquaintance to marry you in an attempt to remain in the UK?

It seems that the ECOs suspect that it is the latter. I have no idea if their suspicions are justified, which is why I asked the question you haven't answered; Did you marry your husband before or after your overstay was discovered?

Never ever crossed my mind that matters will take such a nasty turn.

What did you expect? You admit that you knowingly broke the law by remaining in the UK and working illegally. Did you expect that when caught the Home Office would simply say "Never mind, have a visa anyway!"

Seen all,learnt nothing, any Non-Thais living or working in Thailand illegally deserve the same fate as this lady if/when caught.

[marshbags]

3-I left UK on my own after the solicitors confirmed I must go back and apply back home.

Did they confirm this before or after the Home Office told you?

What I'm trying to learn is;

Did you, knowing that you were in the UK illegally and working illegally and having met and fallen in love with your now husband, have a change of heart and seek to remedy the situation?

Or;

Having been found out by the Home Office and knowing you risked removal, possibly deportation, persuade an acquaintance to marry you in an attempt to remain in the UK?

It seems that the ECOs suspect that it is the latter. I have no idea if their suspicions are justified, which is why I asked the question you haven't answered; Did you marry your husband before or after your overstay was discovered?

Never ever crossed my mind that matters will take such a nasty turn.

What did you expect? You admit that you knowingly broke the law by remaining in the UK and working illegally. Did you expect that when caught the Home Office would simply say "Never mind, have a visa anyway!"

Thanks for the last paragraph GU22

Seen all,learnt nothing, any Non-Thais living or working in Thailand illegally deserve the same fate as this lady if/when caught.

Surely Seen all learnt nothing when someone, be it in Thailand, U.K or anywhere deliberately breaks the law they deserve to suffer the consequences and are not entitled to sympathy unless there are exceptional circumstances.

Both this lady and her husband flouted the law knowingly trying to buck the system and i might add not in Thailand but the host country U.K.

There are far to many genuine people affected by these actions.

A lot of farang cause us many problems at Thai immigration by doing the same sort of things when the law is the law, full stop.

How many times do we hear clever foreigners who think they can get out of following the rules when in their own countries they know that they wouldn,t even think of trying it on.

The same old argument/point " we all try to get away with something " is not true.

Most of us here and abroad do follow the rules of that country and abide by them in spite of the minority who think different.

If you want to show sympathy Seen all learnt nothing save it for the genuine people who suffer because of actions like these especially the families who are separated.

Lets spend our valuable time and knowledge trying to assist these and not others that do not deserve it.

Perhaps then also we will stand a better chance of bettering the system in the future.

By the way Seen all learnt nothing, no offence but your pen name suggest you may be linked to the minority, no animosity intended.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Marsgbags,

You are absolutely correct. My sympathy is misplaced.

It should be reserved for people like you.

If you are a UK resident then I sincerely apologise. You have a right to your bigoted opinion.

If you are a UK EXPAT then don't stant ranting about Thai's illegally in UK.

I assumed that this site existed to help and advise people. I can't provide the help you need.

[MK14]

Hello,

I entered UK on a 6 months visitor visa in 1999.I overstayed and married a British man in 2002.Solicitors said that in order to regularise my status I had the choice of either going back to Thailand and apply for spouse visa or wait until after 2 years marriage,living together in Uk,and apply inside Uk.But after this period was over(in 2004)solicitors changed their tune:they said the law has changed and I had to go back to my country and apply there,which I did.

It's been now over a year of hel_l,waiting.I applied and was refused on following grounds:

1-my husband/sponsor low income

2-accomodation small

3-suspecting marriage is genuine

But I am graduate and have many skills which offer reasonable chance of work and I have documents and bills from the days we met before marriage as evidence of our genuine marriage.

I was given right of appeal.I appealed.I dont know how long it will take?

Now I have an idea.Please forgive me if it is a silly one.Do I have the right to apply for a short normal visitor visa to UK?

So what do you think about my application in general and this idea?

Thank you in advance for your help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[caledonia]

It's all fine and well slating people who over stay or break immigration laws but lets not forget one thing here - for those of us that are British (Marshbags I am assuming you are!), we have the luxuary of having a British passport that needs a visa to enter very few places and the places that it does we often get on arrival - USA Waiver scheme, electronic visas for Australia etc!!

The system is slanted in our favour, I was given a 90 day visa for Thailand cos I asked for it - didn't have to give them any proof of income then I got to leave and re-enter several times. Can a Thai do the same to the UK? No -Is that because so many Thais have flouted the system - No - certainly they have not flouted the system any more then Brits in Thailand. This is all about Economies and money.

Do you have any idea how many backpackers overstay in Australia - screeds - what happens when they leave, they get a stamp saying they can't come back for X amount of years - does it affect every other Brit trying to go there - ofcourse it doesn't because we are economic equals! Thaialnd is not at the moment!!

I ofcourse belong to the category of people that you think don't deserve help as my husband overstayed in the UK. So despite the fact that he has lived apart from me and his son for the last three years we deserve no help/advice right?

Well i would like to say if I had been born into a country with not as welcomed a passport as the British one that I would never have flouted immigration laws but well i haven't walked in those shoes have I.

As for blaiming Thai overstayers as the reason everyone else faces problems - ok so it has notihing to do with the high numbers of older men hooking up with former bar girls who speak very little english and have very little education.

Yes they may be the minority and most are genuine cases that don't meet that stereotype. But having spent long enough in Thailand to know what I have seen with my own eyes, maybe you should place some blame on the British 70 year old fools trying to get their 25 year old wife to join them rather than just pointing the finger at people like Assa64.

Edited October 21, 2005 by caledonia

[marshbags]

It's all fine and well slating people who over stay or break immigration laws but lets not forget one thing here - for those of us that are British (Marshbags I am assuming you are!), we have the luxuary of having a British passport that needs a visa to enter very few places and the places that it does we often get on arrival - USA Waiver scheme, electronic visas for Australia etc!!

The last 2 posts confirm my thoughts and i repeat that like Thai problems with visa,s in the U.K. and many of the problems here for foreigners, they are caused by people trying to be clever and bucking the system.

You where not stupid enough to break the law like the 2 times admitted by s.a.l .n.

so do not fit into that catergory.

Perhaps you should re read my comments and think about the implications and i never catergorised one particular area, 90 days, overstayers ect. but tried to give an example of many actions.

Some people just don,t get it, go sit in any Immigration office, anywhere and listen and observe, then come back to me.

It,s because they broke the rules that they do not deserve any sympathy and are now trying to bluff there way out of it.

Yes i am a British tax payer and i have the same feelings for U.K. citizens that work cash in hand while the rest of us contribute to all the benefits we take for granted and break the law.

If i where in there shoes yes of course i would try again but look for sympathy for self inflicted problems, come on, let,s be reasonable here.

I also included people like yourself who i stated as families who need our support and sympathies in my posts and did never say genuine people do not need help.

I,d like to think that this web site is to help everybody but let,s have some sort of standards.

Why do you think we get so many priviliges having a British passport, they,ve been earned over the years.

I am basically referring to S a l n and i do believe that actions like these only help the bad officials to justify there actions in all countries.

By the way we are discussing U.K. visa,s and not any other country, lets not forget that.

Again what i put was a general referrence, nothing more, relating to other countries otherwise we could go on for ever trying to justify one countries laws against another.

The basic rules are to abide by the laws of the country you are in or if you do not be prepared to suffer the consequences, nothing more and nothing less.

Do you honestly believe that the actions of S a l n will enhance your particular case

in the U.K.

Nor do the stupid actions of a minority of foreigners here help us in Thailand.

My sympathy lies with people like you and i would do my utmost to support you and any other genuine case as i have done many times in my life.

I am a working class hero and proud of it with no bias to class, colour or creed.

Stay cool ya all.   

The system is slanted in our favour, I was given a 90 day visa for Thailand cos I asked for it - didn't have to give them any proof of income then I got to leave and re-enter several times. Can a Thai do the same to the UK? No -Is that because so many Thais have flouted the system - No - certainly they have not flouted the system any more then Brits in Thailand. This is all about Economies and money.

Do you have any idea how many backpackers overstay in Australia - screeds - what happens when they leave, they get a stamp saying they can't come back for X amount of years - does it affect every other Brit trying to go there - ofcourse it doesn't because we are economic equals! Thaialnd is not at the moment!!

I ofcourse belong to the category of people that you think don't deserve help as my husband overstayed in the UK. So despite the fact that he has lived apart from me and his son for the last three years  we deserve no help/advice right?

Well i would like to say if I had been born into a country with not as welcomed a passport as the British one that I would never have flouted immigration laws but well i haven't walked in those shoes have I.

As for blaiming Thai overstayers as the reason everyone else faces problems - ok so it has notihing to do with the high numbers of older men hooking up with former bar girls who speak very little english and have very little education.

Yes they may be the minority and most are genuine cases that don't meet that stereotype. But having spent long enough in Thailand to know what I have seen with my own eyes, maybe you should place some blame on the British 70 year old fools trying to get their 25 year old wife to join them rather than just pointing the finger at people like Assa64.

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[the scouser]

Marshie,

If you've got something to say, can you spit it out, please.

Scouse.