How Are Visa 'days' Calculated? Help Needed Please

[scav]

hi all

just joined your forum and hope i will become a regular visitor

i am travelling to thailand for a 1 month 'recce' to research possible work, so initially on a 30 day tourist visa on entry

i am 45, uk passport holder and need some help

my flight arrives BKK at 12.05, sat 25th december 2005 and leaves 01.20, tues 24th january 2006. if the 30 days of the visa are counted from 12.05 on 25th Dec in 24 hour periods from that time, then i have no problem.. because i would be allowed until 12.05 on 24th january...(i think!)

However, if the arrival day, 25th dec, counts as a whole day, then the 24th jan would be my 31st day.. so i would have a problem

i have contacted 2 different people at Emirates, my airline.. one said i would be ok with the 30 day visa, the other said i would NoT be ok

so i am rather confused.

some specialist advice is needed here and i thought you folks would be 'in the know'

many many thanks in advance

h

[The_Moog]

The day you arrive is DAY 1 (not Day 0)

You have to leave on day 30,

They don't calculate 30 days x 24 hours from the time of arrival and count the hours......

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

25/12: DAY 1; 24 JAN: DAY 31

Day starts 0001. Day of arrival counts as day 1

Last day is not when you check in but when your flight departs.

You are on 1 day overstay. Thai immigation couldn't care less.

How on earth EMIRATES know the finer points of entry regulations is beyond me.

But you've had your answer. Get a visa. By post. Easy. Pain in wallet.

[Overej]

hi all

just joined your forum and hope i will become a regular visitor

i am travelling to thailand for a 1 month  'recce' to research possible work, so initially on a 30 day tourist visa on entry

i am 45, uk passport holder and need some help

my flight arrives BKK at 12.05, sat 25th december 2005 and leaves 01.20, tues 24th january 2006. if the 30 days of the visa are counted from 12.05 on 25th Dec in 24 hour periods from that time, then i have no problem.. because i would be allowed until 12.05 on 24th january...(i think!)

However, if the arrival day, 25th dec, counts as a whole day, then the 24th jan would be my 31st day.. so i would have a problem

i have contacted 2 different people at Emirates, my airline.. one said i would be ok with the 30 day visa, the other said i would NoT be ok

so i am rather confused.

some specialist advice is needed here and i thought you folks would be 'in the know'

many many thanks in advance

h

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

suggrstion, before you start counting your visa validity, please wait until you get the stamp of immigration at the airport. most of the time it is not exactly 30 days. they are giving only 28 days. anyway good luck to you.

[scav]

ok.. thanks for the replies.

think i will get a 60 day tourist visa, just to be on the safe side

cheers

h

[astral]

You do get ONE day of overstay for free!!

[Overej]

ok.. thanks for the replies.

think i will get a 60 day tourist visa, just to be on the safe side

cheers

h

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that's the best thing to do. please don't put yourself in touble or worries.

"it's like if your going to war, you must have everything.

cheers

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Astral.

One day free. It is an offence which currently is not fined.

Normally I'd tell anyone not to worry. But an EMIRATES employee has told him he is not permitted to enter visa free on his ticket. Are you suggesting he should risk being denied boarding? He's not going to have you at check-in to represent him.

[scav]

hi all

i have just changed my return flight to 22 jan, to be on the safe side.. cheaper than a trip to london to get a longer visa. (plus the charges).. thanks for your views,.. this has saved me alot of hassle!

h

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Well that was pretty darn quick.

But decisive action....one thing we can deduce is you are definitely not Thai.

[Maestro]

my flight arrives BKK at 12.05, sat 25th december 2005 and leaves 01.20, tues 24th january 2006. if the 30 days of the visa are counted from 12.05 on 25th Dec in 24 hour periods from that time, then i have no problem.. because i would be allowed until 12.05 on 24th january...(i think!)

However, if the arrival day, 25th dec, counts as a whole day, then the 24th jan would be my 31st day.. so i would have a problem

i have contacted 2 different people at Emirates, my airline.. one said i would be ok with the 30 day visa, the other said i would NoT be ok

First, the good news. With your flight arriving in Thailand on 25 Dec. 2005 at 12.05 hours and your return flight leaving from Thailand on 24 Jan. 2006 at 01.20 hours, you will be all right arriving without a visa and getting a stamp(not a visa) upon arrival granting you permission to stay 30 days, on the condition that you exit through passport control not later than midnight on 23 Jan.

I attach an example of such arrival stamp, copied from my passport.

How are the 30 days counted? Not one month, but exactly 30 calendar days, including both day of arrival and day of departure. The day you exit through passport control counts as your day of departure, not the scheduled date of your return flight.

P.S. Now I see that while I drafted my reply you've advanced your return flight by two days, wherefore my post would not have been necessary.

Edited October 20, 2005 by maestro

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Maestro, WRONG.

Your last day is the day your flight departs, but who knows how many immigration officers know that.

I'm putting the onus on you to prove your assertion since you contradicted me in the first place

[The_Moog]

People can come in with an open return on their ticket - i.e a confirmed, paid ticket but no outbound reservation. That is acceptable, and I have done it myself many times throughout Asia.

The Immigration Officer on arrival is checking to see you have a return leg to your ticket. I.e that you're not a one-way inbound traveller.

Nowadays - with e tickets, there may not even be any physical evidence beyond a fax.

[Maestro]

Maestro, WRONG.

Your last day is the day your flight departs, but who knows how many immigration officers know that.

I'm putting the onus on you to prove your assertion since you contradicted me in the first place

Proof, I have not, but I remember distinctly having read exactly that on this forum not too long ago.

Shall we wait for Lopburi and Dr. Pat to wake up and see what they say? Mind you, even they may be unable provide irrefutable proof in the sense of chapter and verse of a law or Ministerial Regulation.

Somehow it seems to me that in most countries, USA and China perhaps excepted, you have not entered the country until you have passed through immigration and you have left the country after passing through immigration again on your way out. In other words, while on the ground but in the transit area, you are in some kind of no-man’s land.

Hey, SALN, isn’t it long past your bedtime in Thailand?

[Maestro]

The day you exit through passport control counts as your day of departure, not the scheduled date of your return flight.

Maestro, WRONG.

Proof, I have not, but I remember distinctly having read exactly that on this forum not too long ago.

For the past 80 minutes – am I crazy, or what? – I have tried to find the post I thought I remembered, but to no avail.

Instead I found this post that proves me wrong, but I’ll believe it when I hear it from Lopburi (my name is not Thomas )

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Maestro,

IT WORKED. I had made a search using google to back up my assertion before posting without success. I thought I'd con you into doing the donkey work.

I had previously seen Slimdog's post. I dismiss it, not because it is inaccurate (it is accurate) but he is making an unsubstantiated statement. As we both did.

I have seen one other discusion ON THIS site which I can't now find (as I recall it didn't resolve the issue).

I KNOW I have seen it on an official website or in an official response which I can't find. And using seach engines is being more and more frustrating...with so much cr*p on the internet.

Maybe better advice to OP would have been speak to a Thai consul and if he says OK, get it in writing. BUt who would think he would have acted so promptly and based what he reads here!!!!

Yes it was way past my bedtime but you get hooked. MY "wife" has this morning berated me because I woke her up when I got to bed. Here in the sticks it's lights out at 0730 and up at the crack of dawn to feed the monks. They arrive 05.50 ecery morning. And my internet connection!!!. I was being knocked off every 30mins. Deliberate by TOT...another 3 baht. Always worse during scholl hols.

The Moog,

Absolutely right what you say. You need an onward ticket not a confirmed reservation. However cheapo tickets issued in UK rarely permit OPEN returns. Frequently you are allowed to CHANGE the reservation, frequently with a hefty fee.

Also if you take the regulation literally it doen't say if you do have a reservation out it must be within the 30 days. So you could argue, I bought the ticket thinking I was going to get a visa , but changed my mind and will change the reservation in Thailand and exit in 30days. Lke many LAWS and regulations wording and intent not always the same. But the chances of you or I being asked to produce a ticket visa or no visa is NIL. BUT come forward anyone who has not joined a queue at BKK to be stuck behing a couple of back-packers or family of 17 from Burkina Faso having to unpack their belongings to find that elusive return ticket.

Off point but one time long ago I was travelling to Singapore from Europe. Plane stopped at BKK. I over imbibed the J class hospitality (big head) and thought I would break my journey. Can't think what for. Anyway before landing I told cheif steward I was getting off, for when they had made a passenger count (hand baggage only, in case anyone asks). Anway LO after descending the ramp there were a possee of immigration....interviewd in the view of hundreds of passers by. Suspicious they thought. I convinced them I was just the sort of usual p*sshead visiting LOS. They let me in. I tried to make out I was Nick Leeson. I din't get to SIN and was charged 150 to change the ticket even though I joined the same return flight I would have got had I ravelled through to SIN.Be they wouldn't think ch

[lopburi3]

I have a morning headache trying to read all this but you get 30 days (not 28) unless there has been a mistake (which can happen - especially at day change time). Arrival is day one. Airline has computer access to full IATA immigration information as from this site Delta travel information and could prevent boarding under original circumstances. One day of overstay is normally not fine material but could result in jail time if found out prior to departure and from reports I have seen will result in a notation in your passport. As for the exit time do not believe immigration would equate to an overstay as long as you arrived at immigration prior to midnight but the airline would use the ticket date to count the 30 day stay. Once you clear immigration you are in limbo until you either re-enter Thailand or arrive at another country.

[jayenram]

Last day is not when you check in but when your flight departs.

You are on 1 day overstay. Thai immigation couldn't care less.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I pass through immigration at 23:30, on say 24th, for a 00:30 flight on 25th, what date would they enter on my departure stamp?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Jayenram. I've been waiting for that question.

My guess 24th. But you are still in Thailand in the departure area. Witness, in UK a few nationalities have to obtain a visa even if they are not leaving the inner sanctum of the terminal i.e arriving on one Int flight and departing an hour later on another.

I 100% agree with Lops post, which is so carefully worded I can safely do so in the certain knowedge I am not contradicting myself. Do you give lessons Lop?

Further to Moogs earlier comment, and slightly of topic. According to MFA site you need a ticket paid in full when arriving on a tourist visa. Thing is it doesn't say it has to be a return.

[Maestro]

If I pass through immigration at 23:30, on say 24th, for a 00:30 flight on 25th, what date would they enter on my departure stamp?

My guess 24th.

I know it as a fact. The attached departure stamp of mine (“-3 JAN 2005”) was for a flight on 4 Jan. 2005 at 00.20 hours, evidenced by the attached ticket copy.

Everything else notwithstanding, I continue to believe that with a permitted stay until 23 Jan. Scav would not be on overstay if he exited through Immigration before midnight on 23 Jan for a flight departing at 01.20 hours on 24 Jan.

Airline has computer access to full IATA immigration information as from this site Delta travel information and could prevent boarding under original circumstances.

I admit freely, though, that I overlooked the other, more direct problem of his being denied check-in in the UK, always assuming that the check-in staff bothers to verify and knows that in Thailand the 30 days on arrival permit really means 29 days after arrival.

Therefore, one way or the other, my advice to Scav could technically have got him in serious trouble and thus was wrong. You win

TG_ticket.pdf

[Maestro]

IT WORKED. I had made a search using google to back up my assertion before posting without success.  I thought I'd con you into doing the donkey work.

You crafty chap!

I don’t blame you: it’s called “delegation of work”.

[scav]

hi all

thanks for the healthy debate on this subject

i also posted the same question on thorn tree(lonely planet forum) .. but i think the visa pic and debate here is very useful and may help others in my position..

therefore i have a request.. would it be ok to post this thread as a link on my thorn tree thread?

pehaps this is a Q for the moderator?

thanks

h

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Maestro,

I notice you you paid 41.55 for your passenger coupon. How much was the ticket?

You think I jest. Buy a cheapo airline ticket in LOS. They add mandatory Insurance, 50THB tax, fuel surcharge, administration fee.

Administration fee??? Next it will be a charge for issue of the ticket (41.55euro seems reasonable), contribution to pilots salary, aircraft mtce. check-in staff salary.

By the way Umberto, if you use ultra violet light you can clearly read your

name.

[Maestro]

I notice you you paid 41.55 for your passenger coupon. How much was the ticket?

That was EUR 845.00, everything included except BKK airport tax, of course. The air fare itself, an official grey market fare, was EUR 700, the rest fuel surcharges, security surcharges, airport tax, and whatever else they heap on nowadays.

I’m getting the same fare again this December but probably with higher fuel surcharges, out on 10 Dec. again, before the high season starts.

[Maestro]

That was EUR 845.00, everything included except BKK airport tax, of course. The air fare itself, an official grey market fare, was EUR 700, the rest fuel surcharges, security surcharges, airport tax, and whatever else they heap on nowadays.

I forgot to say that this special fare out of Milan is valid only for a round trip within 30 days.

[Maestro]

By the way Umberto, if you use ultra violet light you can clearly read your

name.

You’ve unmasked me – almost. Umberto is actually my brother