Thai Democrats Need To Change Themselves First, Say Experts

[webfact]

Democrats need to change themselves first, say experts

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

The Democrat Party needs to reform itself before it can attract more voters because the "other option" of waiting for a military coup or an intervention from the powers-that-be has proved to be unsustainable, Prajak Kongkirati, a political scientist at Thammasat University, said yesterday.

"In the end, even after a coup, they still have to face the voters," Prajak said at a symposium on the Thai electoral system and trends under the new government that was organised by Chulalongkorn University's Thailand Democracy Watch Centre.

Prajak believes that as long as the Democrat Party fails to make significant inroads in the North and Northeast, they will never win any elections because basic arithmetic shows that more voters reside in these two regions than anywhere else.

However, he admitted that many members of the Thai elite still hoped that the political "restart button" can be pressed with a military or judicial coup, but he warned that this would only create an unstable political climate.

Asst Professor Viengrat Netipho, also a political lecturer at Thammasat, criticised the Election Commission for not being accountable to the public. She also challenged the Pheu Thai-led government to kick-off reforms in other political institutions.

Anusorn Tamajai, dean of Rangsit University's Faculty of Economics, said Thailand needed to be stable so it can exploit the rise of Asia and become a developed nation by 2025 or 2030. The only way to achieve this, he said, is to address the issues of basic welfare and opportunities for the poor and working class. Anusorn said the Bt300 minimum wage promised by the incoming Pheu Thai administration was a good first step.

He said many poor people, even pregnant women, had to get out of bed at 4am and put in extra hours at work in order to make both ends meet, adding that unless this situation was improved, Thailand could never become a developed society or a true democracy. "You should go and ask them how difficult their lives are," he told the audience.

-- The Nation 2011-07-21

[bobmac10]

I can't believe it.

Someone actually saying it out loud, what we all have known for a long time.

This really is an important statement and let's hope the powers that be in the Dems are listening.

To become a mainstream political party with policies that really are relevant, the party needs to reinvent itself and broaden its appeal.

This is encouraging and can only be viewed as a forward step.

[CosmicSurfer]

What about the Inflation that this kind of universal Wage increase will cause???

And how will anything really change as long as the Culture of Corruption exists and the Lack of Accountability is more the Rule, then the Law is???

CS

[hammered]

It is about time this was said. Lets hope it is what the democrat grandees are thinking even if it means for many of them it is time to depart. Thailand is heading the way of a two party system and the Democrats are the best hope of a second party. They so though need to recognize their mistakes and move forward.

Back in 2006 before the coup, the Democrats were actually in a better position, as they had changed leadership quite dramatically and Thaksin's popularity at that time was waning. It was likely he would have won another election but with a reduced majority with the Dems gaining. Now, the democrats are back where they were around Banyat Time structurally but with the added baggage of having been seen to tacitly support a coup, being linked to parties that never expose themselves to elections, and being linked to overseeing political death on the street. Overcoming these obstacles will not be easy and will involve hard decisions and soul searching, but it is not impossible.

[tlansford]

Anusorn Tamajai, dean of Rangsit University's Faculty of Economics, said Thailand needed to be stable so it can exploit the rise of Asia and become a developed nation by 2025 or 2030. The only way to achieve this, he said, is to address the issues of basic welfare and opportunities for the poor and working class. Anusorn said the Bt300 minimum wage promised by the incoming Pheu Thai administration was a good first step.

He said many poor people, even pregnant women, had to get out of bed at 4am and put in extra hours at work in order to make both ends meet, adding that unless this situation was improved, Thailand could never become a developed society or a true democracy. "You should go and ask them how difficult their lives are," he told the audience.

Excellent comments and so true.

A country is only as strong as its most vulnerable segments of the society.

[Samuian]

What about the Inflation that this kind of universal Wage increase will cause???

And how will anything really change as long as the Culture of Corruption exists and the Lack of Accountability is more the Rule, then the Law is???

CS

Agreed, not only the "Dems" have to change, the entire country needs a change of attitude or better a OS update, if not replacement!

I am amazed that no one dares to tackle this FACT, well everyone thinks that this is the "invisible hand" that feeds and protects them, well at least everyone believes this, but doesn't understand that it is an empty promise, never delivered, but nothing than a licence to clear the road to cream off what ever there is and have droves of incompetent, self serving people at the helm all over the country!

[1bbcd5]

It is about time this was said.

[pisico]

What about the Inflation that this kind of universal Wage increase will cause???

And how will anything really change as long as the Culture of Corruption exists and the Lack of Accountability is more the Rule, then the Law is???

CS

Inflation started 2 months ago, way before the elections.

Corruption is the symptom. Lack of Accountability is the cause.

For as long a hi-so gives the minor daughter (without a driver license or qualified to drive) a car and she collides with a mini-van resulting in 8 deaths and nothing happens to her nor to the parents, for as long as soldiers fire on people gathered inside a temple and nothing happens to them, for as long as those in high levels of power sell positions (such as what happened in Chonburi not long ago) in bodies entrusted with enforcing laws and no investigation and/or prosecution follows due process to the very end, corruption will not stop. Before there was a Thaksin there was corruption.

Therefore the democratic ideas of crime and punishment and accountability, although desirable, will not work in societies that have never embraced the egalitarian principle that no one is above the law.

[unanimosity]

I can't believe it.

Someone actually saying it out loud, what we all have known for a long time.

This really is an important statement and let's hope the powers that be in the Dems are listening.

To become a mainstream political party with policies that really are relevant, the party needs to reinvent itself and broaden its appeal.

This is encouraging and can only be viewed as a forward step.

We have all known for a long time clearly does not include the Dem groupies on TV for whom the Dems can do no wrong and for whom every problem in the world can be traced to Thaksin and George Bush.

[unanimosity]

What about the Inflation that this kind of universal Wage increase will cause???

And how will anything really change as long as the Culture of Corruption exists and the Lack of Accountability is more the Rule, then the Law is???

CS

Inflation started 2 months ago, way before the elections.

Corruption is the symptom. Lack of Accountability is the cause.

For as long a hi-so gives the minor daughter (without a driver license or qualified to drive) a car and she collides with a mini-van resulting in 8 deaths and nothing happens to her nor to the parents, for as long as soldiers fire on people gathered inside a temple and nothing happens to them, for as long as those in high levels of power sell positions (such as what happened in Chonburi not long ago) in bodies entrusted with enforcing laws and no investigation and/or prosecution follows due process to the very end, corruption will not stop. Before there was a Thaksin there was corruption.

Therefore the democratic ideas of crime and punishment and accountability, although desirable, will not work in societies that have never embraced the egalitarian principle that no one is above the law.

That's a long row to hoe with 65% of the Thai population recently endorsing corruption as acceptable.

[unanimosity]

It is about time this was said. Lets hope it is what the democrat grandees are thinking even if it means for many of them it is time to depart. Thailand is heading the way of a two party system and the Democrats are the best hope of a second party. They so though need to recognize their mistakes and move forward.

Back in 2006 before the coup, the Democrats were actually in a better position, as they had changed leadership quite dramatically and Thaksin's popularity at that time was waning. It was likely he would have won another election but with a reduced majority with the Dems gaining. Now, the democrats are back where they were around Banyat Time structurally but with the added baggage of having been seen to tacitly support a coup, being linked to parties that never expose themselves to elections, and being linked to overseeing political death on the street. Overcoming these obstacles will not be easy and will involve hard decisions and soul searching, but it is not impossible.

Democracy doesn't trickle up, it is given or it is taken, and those at the top with the keys to the store aren't in the least concerned for the well being of Somchai Q. Public or the country in any manifestation other than what benefits them directly. Their loyalty is only to colleagues, minions, and influence peddlers (politicians) that protect and serve their interests. To depart, as you say, is to lose face and the only way that can happen is if somebody causes it, otherwise it would be losing face voluntary and that often means loss of family and professional respect, familial, societal, and economic suicide.

[catmac]

I can't believe it.

Someone actually saying it out loud, what we all have known for a long time.

This really is an important statement and let's hope the powers that be in the Dems are listening.

To become a mainstream political party with policies that really are relevant, the party needs to reinvent itself and broaden its appeal.

This is encouraging and can only be viewed as a forward step.

We have all known for a long time clearly does not include the Dem groupies on TV for whom the Dems can do no wrong and for whom every problem in the world can be traced to Thaksin and George Bush.

So true!

[Ricardo]

I can't believe it.

Someone actually saying it out loud, what we all have known for a long time.

This really is an important statement and let's hope the powers that be in the Dems are listening.

To become a mainstream political party with policies that really are relevant, the party needs to reinvent itself and broaden its appeal.

This is encouraging and can only be viewed as a forward step.

We have all known for a long time clearly does not include the Dem groupies on TV for whom the Dems can do no wrong and for whom every problem in the world can be traced to Thaksin and George Bush.

Not sure who you're referring to, as I've seen posters saying this sort of thing here for several years, just because they/we are anti-Thaksin doesn't mean that the Dems have ever been seen as more-than the least-bad next-alternative. Not that every single post takes the time to spell that out, of course.

I suspect that the problem (as I see it) of a deeply-entrenched well-organised party-machine in the North/North-East, which can deliver a very-substantial (if not always overall-majority) share of the vote/seats, will be with Thailand for some time to come. Equally the twin-base Bangkok/South support of the Dems has existed for many years.

This is problematical especially if it continues to be the property of any one man, who wants to run things long-term ("We will rule for 20+ years"), as one essential aspect of democracy is that there always needs to be the opportunity/possibility for change-of-control. It helps encourage the politicians to be less-dictatorial and slightly-more-honest, and can help minimise personality-politics (only one person can 'Save The Country' ! Oh Really ?), or single-party politics (where the example of Singapore springs to mind).

So long as `Thai-politics remains based upon regional/feudal power-groups & influential-families, rather than national-parties with alternative sets of policies, it's hard to see much changing IMO. But putting the importance of improving life for the poor on-the-agenda, so that now both PTP & the Dems frame their election-policies to meet these aspirations, has definitely been progress, so long as those promises are kept & not forgotten/reneged-upon/retracted once the elections end !

But how do you get from a regional power-base system to a national-party/policy-based system ? Hopefully not via a dictatorship.

Edited July 22, 2011 by Ricardo

[pastitche]

I can't believe it.

Someone actually saying it out loud, what we all have known for a long time.

This really is an important statement and let's hope the powers that be in the Dems are listening.

To become a mainstream political party with policies that really are relevant, the party needs to reinvent itself and broaden its appeal.

This is encouraging and can only be viewed as a forward step.

We have all known for a long time clearly does not include the Dem groupies on TV for whom the Dems can do no wrong and for whom every problem in the world can be traced to Thaksin and George Bush.

Not sure who you're referring to, as I've seen posters saying this sort of thing here for several years, just because they/we are anti-Thaksin doesn't mean that the Dems have ever been seen as more-than the least-bad next-alternative. Not that every single post takes the time to spell that out, of course.

I suspect that the problem (as I see it) of a deeply-entrenched well-organised party-machine in the North/North-East, which can deliver a very-substantial (if not always overall-majority) share of the vote/seats, will be with Thailand for some time to come. Equally the twin-base Bangkok/South support of the Dems has existed for many years.

This is problematical especially if it continues to be the property of any one man, who wants to run things long-term ("We will rule for 20+ years"), as one essential aspect of democracy is that there always needs to be the opportunity/possibility for change-of-control. It helps encourage the politicians to be less-dictatorial and slightly-more-honest, and can help minimise personality-politics (only one person can 'Save The Country' ! Oh Really ?), or single-party politics (where the example of Singapore springs to mind).

So long as `Thai-politics remains based upon regional/feudal power-groups & influential-families, rather than national-parties with alternative sets of policies, it's hard to see much changing IMO. But putting the importance of improving life for the poor on-the-agenda, so that now both PTP & the Dems frame their election-policies to meet these aspirations, has definitely been progress, so long as those promises are kept & not forgotten/reneged-upon/retracted once the elections end !

But how do you get from a regional power-base system to a national-party/policy-based system ? Hopefully not via a dictatorship.

Basically the answer is that you don't and never will until a completely new phenomenon arises in Thai politics - integrity. For however long the polity in this country has been the heritage of a history that was fundamentally feudalism much more recently than our western experiences.

The reason why, for example, the UK developed a parliamentary system that has stood the rigours of time was not the introduction of universal suffrage or a sudden shift in belief where the rich and powerful accepted that equality was a good thing and wealth should be shared.

What in fact occurred was that the ruling plutocracy was faced with a working-class who had fought and died in their millions for King and Empire against another country with exactly the same motivations.

Unfortunately for the elite who ruled Britain, there was an incipient movement led by men such as Keir Hardie whose conviction that all men were equal and that the "land fit for heroes" was a lie meant a complete change, however painfully, over the ensuing decades.

I do not think that Thailand needs a war of attrition with any of its neighbours but to my mind there is not a party in this country that has the kind of men of honesty, integrity and conscience that is needed to make this a better and more equal place for all of its people.

I have read over many threads that Abhisit is the best prospect for the future and his background and eucation make him the beacon for the future. Leaving aside the present controversy surrounding his fellow Etonian and Oxford graduate David Cameron's plight with News International, I have never seen any convincing evidence that he has a genuine wish to improve the situation in his native land.

Is he the Messiah who will inspire the Thai masses to follow the lead to a true democracy? If he believed in that as a cause, he would quit the Democrats and found a new political party dedicated to a more just and and equal society. I personally believe that many Thais would welcome someone who says with credibility "No more corruption. Our people deserve better" Such a leader must exist but he is not Thaaksin